Rally Deutschland 2012

[6789]

Wonder the tyre choice for Ford drivers???

4 hards and 1 soft in the boot

[N.O.T]

Wonder the tyre choice for Ford drivers???

i wonder about the driver choice for ford team instead....

[logic]

Loeb is lucky as hell!! Just ahead of the rain.

[r199]

Loeb is the most lucky driver on the planet it looks like for now

[N.O.T]

that explains it... now none will risk anything... but it remains to see the tyres they picked.

[GigiGalliNo1]

i wonder about the driver choice for ford team instead....

Who do you recommend? (Do two... one if Loeb is still with Citroen next year and one if Citroen out in 2013).

[stefanvv]

that explains it... now none will risk anything... but it remains to see the tyres they picked.

I think all are with hard, unexpected rain I guess?!?

[r199]

The rain stopped. I would like to say that there is quite a distance between this and the other stages, others could be more dry.

on rallyradio, thay say that the rain whas comming and started on the 2nd stage, so that one should be even worse

[GigiGalliNo1]

Reckon Citroen Racing watched the weather last night on TV and found it it was going to rain this morning!? HELLO FORD.

[stefanvv]

Reckon Citroen Racing watched the weather last night on TV and found it it was going to rain this morning!? HELLO FORD.

Even Citroen didn't expect this, I guess Loeb was just lucky to start raining while he is on the stage, look Hirvonen's time - it is disaster.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I wrote to Citroen on Twitter:

"$20 that @CitroenRacing watched the weather on TVnews last night, found out it was going 2 rain in morning!"

They wrote back:

"No we just have a frog and a ladder to predict the weather. http://pattayainformation.net/grenouille.jpg "

[r199]

Citroën Racing ‏@CitroenRacing (https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing) Next stage is Peterberg at 09:01. Is it dedicated to @Petter_Solberg (https://twitter.com/Petter_Solberg)? Tell us @WRCgerardquinn (https://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn)! #WRC (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23WRC) #rallyedeutschland (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23rallyedeutschland)

hahahahahahaha lol

[stefanvv]

I wrote to Citroen on Twitter:

"$20 that @CitroenRacing watched the weather on TVnews last night, found out it was going 2 rain in morning!"

They wrote back:

"No we just have a frog and a ladder to predict the weather. http://pattayainformation.net/grenouille.jpg "

:D , that is what Loeb says too :D

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRkMf4yRPY&feature=player_embedded#!

[GigiGalliNo1]

The French have a funny side to them. They aren't always serious! haha

[Tom206wrc]

Mmmmh interesting, Arzéno a bit faster than Mikkelsen on fifth split SS7 :)

[stefanvv]

Loeb besides great pilot has great sense of humor also, but may be the frog still sleeps :D

[Mintexmemory]

The French have a funny side to them. They aren't always serious! haha
Indeed when two old mates meet one is likely to ask 'Comment ca va, mon vieux couille' - Hows it going my old testicle. There is a lot of earthy humour between french male acquaintances verging on the schoolboy type. (Source....French girlfriend)

[r199]

just got my dad on the phone he is marshalling on the pantzerplatte stage, dry over there

[stefanvv]

P. Nobre: "Dry is difficult, wet is terrible difficult." :D

[Tom206wrc]

Arzeno finally 8" faster than...Ogier, and 10th fastest overall :eek:
I know there's rain, tyre choice, etc but Matthieu has less experience(of S2000 and of WRC)than "Seb 2", the perf is in then :p :

[René]

Mmmmh interesting, Arzéno a bit faster than Mikkelsen on fifth split SS7 :)

with soft tyres but best time of S2000 ;)

[Mintexmemory]

On Panzerplatte I think they'll use hard tyres anyway, the tarmac is so abrasive there... There's nothing else like that.
Some of the tarmac is in fact concrete (IIRC) - very abrasive!

[AP-Racing]

What? Rain? Where? I can't see

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225170_10151028122451918_650643355_n.jpg

[Tom206wrc]

Everybody seems a bit faster than Seb on first split short SS8(Petter was 0"2 faster overall) ;)

[eestlane]

Karl Kruuda & Martin Järveoja crash Rally Germany 2012 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmC3jX_LeNQ)
Kruuda crash

[Tom206wrc]

HEY Latvala lost 33" on split 2 :s

[dimviii]

Jari +33 on 2nd split :eek:

[AP-Racing]

Latvala - bye bye

[Miika]

Lolz JML, concentrating on keeping the 3rd place by spinning.

[stefanvv]

Sordo claims 3rd! Stage win!

[Tom206wrc]

Sordo fastest overall :mark:

[N.O.T]

LATVALA J.-M. / ANTTILA M. (st. č. 3) "We made a mistake, I lost the brake in one very wet place. We need to concentrate for my third position."from rally.cz


I wonder what the VW contract includes.... how much is he going to pay? anyone knows? is it the same as in ford ?

[dimviii]

safe mode from Loeb. zzzzzzzzzzzz

[GigiGalliNo1]

Come on Sordo!

[Tom206wrc]

Even Tänak and Östberg faster than Hirvo and Neuville :mark:

[stefanvv]

LATVALA J.-M. / ANTTILA M. (st. č. 3) "We made a mistake, I lost the brake in one very wet place. We need to concentrate for my third position."from rally.cz


I wonder what the VW contract includes.... how much is he going to pay? anyone knows? is it the same as in ford ?

Interesting, Neuville spun 4 times these 2 stages, but Latvalla can't handle it...

[dimviii]

We should be happy that there's still a fight for the podium place, with 3 drivers! after these 2 stages it could have turned out much more boring ;)

yes for sure,lets wait to see if Panzerplatte surprise us.

[Tom206wrc]

Can't wait for Panzerplatte :bounce:

[stefanvv]

Arzeno with softs almost fast as Neuville

[Tom206wrc]

Hey !!! Arzeno 8th fastest overall on SS8(fastest S2000 again) :D

[r199]

there whas a little bit of rain on the platte, road is wet but dry overthere right now

[rage82]

Karl Kruuda & Martin Järveoja crash Rally Germany 2012 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmC3jX_LeNQ)
Kruuda crash
Very good onboard camera!

[r199]

fiew kilometers of the stage end, op the platte. no rain now, and road as good as dry. going to be fun

[Tom206wrc]

Go for Panzerplatte :bounce:

[Tom206wrc]

Solberg already +7" after two splits :confused:

[GigiGalliNo1]

Ouch! Will anyone get caught out?

[spiderem]

Latvala full steam, 1.8 on loeb at split 2

[blissard]

Solberg already +7" after two splits :confused:

Took some time back, maybe a small spin?

[René]

Normally Loeb begins attacking in the second half of stage

[Barreis]

Loeb + amateurs. :D

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo stopped.... Noooo!!!! :(

[René]

Sordo stopped.... Noooo!!!! :(

he's moving again

[blissard]

Petter broke the rear wheel..... damnit. Stopped now.

[r199]

Solberg broken wheel

[GigiGalliNo1]

Petter broke wheel and Sordo puncture! Who will be 2nd/3rd now?..

[r199]

neuville and solberg stoped

[MikeD]

Both Neuville and P.Solberg has stopped. Petter has broken right wheel at the back.

[rage82]

Peter has stopped, and Thierry also. What a stage again

[Rallyper]

Not Neuville. He also stopped according to WRC-radio.

[Tom206wrc]

Solberg and Neuville stopped too :mad:

[r199]

just had pfone from the platte, Solberg rear wheel complete off the car

[GigiGalliNo1]

Neuville stopped too!!

[Rallyper]

Why isn´t it reversed starting order today?

[Tom206wrc]

If no problem on stage, Ogier could finish 8th overall after Panzerplatte 1 :rolleyes:

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Good school or lesson for neuville...

[René]

Mikko on the podium after this stage??

[René]

Good school or lesson for neuville...

Both !

[rp]

Neuville went off the road SS9. Crew OK.

[6789]

Looks like Mikko will end up with another podium after all.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Solberg still on stage???

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Quite good time for Mikko. Great!

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Heja Heja Finska pojkarna! Double tarmac podium for FINLAND! I have to smile now, because maybe next stage will change everything! YEAH!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Broken right rear wheel so solberg he is out.

[rp]

Solberg still on stage???

Tried to continue, but it's a broken right rear wheel.

[René]

This stage started 50mn ago and only 7 cars in end line

[r199]

total chaos over there hihi

[René]

Atkinson finished with 45s of delay and he continues to say every stages arrival that car is working really well. Maybe some political orders???

[Rallyper]

Tried to continue, but it's a broken right rear wheel.

Broken rear wheel only? It must at least have been something more, like broken suspension in any way?

[MikeD]

Please put a sock in the Green Clown!!!!

[Rallyper]

Oh, I understand. Everyone´s gone from forum. The excitement is no more....

[r199]

v merksteijn from 7 km in stage stuk in 5th gear, (shifter) compleatly broken of cant shift is hoping to drive to service in 5

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Atkinson finished with 45s of delay and he continues to say every stages arrival that car is working really well. Maybe some political orders???
I briefly met Atkinson a few years ago, and I got the disctinct impression that any time the car is working is "working well". That's not a criticism, mind you.

The Panzerplatte is 46.45km long. If Atkinson is 45 seconds off the pace, then that only means he's losing a second per kilometre - which really isn't that bad for the team. It's not one of their better days, but it's certainly not one of their worst.

[René]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390925_411469265581179_1817599509_n.jpg

Neuville his car, doesn't look too badly damaged on first sight.

Maybe too difficult for pushing back on the road???

[r199]

and like Atko said, it is a long time ago he whas in a wrc on tarmac, think about 3 years he told on rally radio

[stefanvv]

Wow, this stage heavily shake the leaderboard

[Juha_Koo]

I like Neuville's performance more and more on every rally, but in my opinion he should start to limit his speed a bit to acquire some consistancy. Then again, I don't consider these offs to be a problem because this is a learning year. I'm waiting for next year to see what he is capable to. :)

[Tom206wrc]

Wow what killer stage it was :s

[Wim_Impreza]

and like Atko said, it is a long time ago he whas in a wrc on tarmac, think about 3 years he told on rally radio

Yes, even 3,5 years as his last tarmac event in the WRC with a WRC car was Rally Ireland 2009, which was than the season opener.

[eib1]

Maybe too difficult for pushing back on the road???
broken radiator

[stefanvv]

Russian humor: E. Novikov - "Nothing special. 180 junctions and we missed only two." :D

[logic]

I am seeing people talking about other drivers crashing all of the time and how they do not deserve their seats , but no one is speaking of Neuville .

[r199]

Maybe because for Neuville it's his first year in the WRC, while others are crashing for years already? ;)

Sorry to say this, but also in irc and BK if Neuville is on the pace to win he is going of. (he is a good rider) but crashes alot on the pace

[logic]

Maybe because for Neuville it's his first year in the WRC, while others are crashing for years already? ;)

What about Ott?

[logic]

There are no comments or people complaining about Tanak here in this topic I think? ;) What's your point?

You think .

[Barreis]

When was the last time when ford had drivers champ?

[logic]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561601_347233722031270_1323310902_n.jpg

pic of solbers crash

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Nice to see Novikov setting some reasonably-competitive times. If he can just keep it together and not crash so much, he could go a long way.

[r199]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/644115150.jpg?key=800800&Expires=1345892661&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=pqqO5y9wM2~mqnqg2BsGKFajJ~ueQqs3XoKkgAcN bfMJucdylfPdKh12tUjUV~lqKeGqIksqR6uMyWIQCtlK2P2DMV t1yXItbLxfxAlQrVOquRj0NrtRFH-KgGAnh2JSBKzPTcCeAAXs1gjSJDZdA9ux6Zub40fHVV17MudI5 O4_

JML thanks to Rallymedia.nl

[eib1]

When was the last time when ford had drivers champ?

1981 Ari Vatanen

[Barreis]

1981 Ari Vatanen

Thanks. So it's something wrong with that team when they can't achieve driver's crown for more then 30 years.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Thanks. So it's something wrong with that team when they can't achieve driver's crown for more then 30 years.
Only if the people who were running the team in 1982 have been running it every year since.

[N.O.T]

everything is over now... cruise pace for all

[HarriK]

Esapekka Lappi broken radiator + something else. Continues tomorrow

[bassist]

You have to hand it to Mr Loeb- consumate professional. All over again bar the shouting, and the Ford boys have to drive the bollux off those Fiestas to even have a `sniff`. Petter, I love you to bits, but you just cant catch him- perhaps its time to let the youngsters have a go. Having said that, the only way to catch him ,is if he retires this year. I hope he doesnt, and I think he will go for No 10.

[Barreis]

You have to hand it to Mr Loeb- consumate professional. All over again bar the shouting, and the Ford boys have to drive the bollux off those Fiestas to even have a `sniff`. Petter, I love you to bits, but you just cant catch him- perhaps its time to let the youngsters have a go. Having said that, the only way to catch him ,is if he retires this year. I hope he doesnt, and I think he will go for No 10.

No youngster can catch him. :D

[Francis44]

I am seeing people talking about other drivers crashing all of the time and how they do not deserve their seats , but no one is speaking of Neuville .

I think Neuville is doing pretty well, even better pace wise than Ogier in 2009. We have to wait for next year to see if he really improves is consistency.

[rallye-vid]

Solberg wants his wheel back ;)

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w482/just_me111/1345893786452.jpg
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w482/just_me111/1345893858536.jpg

[andyone]

No youngster can catch him. :D
Ogier can...

[tfp]

Ogier can...

For the sake of the validity of this championship series, I hope he can.

[Viking]

Ogier can...

Ogier is 29 in December, he is in his prime, but ok he is a youngster compered to Loeb and Petter

[Mirek]

Solberg wants his wheel back ;)

So he broke the wheel in such easy place? That's quite stupid :(

[Blitzerflitzer]

So he broke the wheel in such easy place? That's quite stupid :(
No, he drive 3-4 km with the broken Wheel to this Place.

[6789]

I really hope Ogier can beat Loeb next year. Bring on GB now, see of Fords can put up a fight.

[Bartek]

I left house only for 3 hours :) Never go out when Panzerplate is live :)

[Mirek]

No, he drive 3-4 km with the broken Wheel to this Place.

Aha, thanks

[JAM]

I am seeing people talking about other drivers crashing all of the time and how they do not deserve their seats , but no one is speaking of Neuville .

Neuville, Ogier, Tanak… but on this foum usually the heads only trully blame a crash when is Latvala doing it.

When Latvala crashes, there's a group of professional blamers that use all the ugly words to the finish driver.

It's just like complaint about Loeb and the consequences of being so perfect on the WRC

Another rally to Mr Loeb and Citroen. The guy is killing WRC with his perfection… i sleep until late today, and didn't lost nothing special :D

[r199]

Loeb is not perfect, he got some championschips cheating. remeber Rautenbach waiting like 17 minutes on stage to let seb past. Ogier cant atack him, Mikko can't Loeb is a real good driver but he is the best by teamorders

[ZequeArgentina]

Neuville, Ogier, Tanak… but on this foum usually the heads only trully blame a crash when is Latvala doing it.

When Latvala crashes, there's a group of professional blamers that use all the ugly words to the finish driver.

It's just like complaint about Loeb and the consequences of being so perfect on the WRC

Another rally to Mr Loeb and Citroen. The guy is killing WRC with his perfection… i sleep until late today, and didn't lost nothing special :D

It may also be people wanting so much that someone can really challenge Loeb, that when there is someone with the speed (Latvala) then all the preassure is over him to maintain his speed AND CONSISTENCY.

I think we should wait for VW to be as ood as ecxpected, Loeb to get interest incontinuing, and 2013 to start!!

[andyone]

Loeb is one hell of a Driver but in other hand he is making rally boring.. he is always winning and it is one thing that is making wrc a bit not good.. imagine if loeb was not in the wrc. lots of different winners. championship gets close and intresting. even latvala is not crashing coz he is not a good driver. its only that to keep up with loeb you have to go fast. and going fast only loeb can be soo consistent in the speed he goes.... he is just too good for the present championship. he should retire. 9 times world champion. that will be hard to break.

[Tom206wrc]

SS10 running :cool:

[René]

Some probs for Latvala?? Puncture or??

[JAM]

Some probs for Latvala?? Puncture or??

As he is at 1m30s fro Loeb, he decided not take risks, otherwise we would read bad things about him here. :)

[tolis]

Neuville, Ogier, Tanak… but on this foum usually the heads only trully blame a crash when is Latvala doing it.

When Latvala crashes, there's a group of professional blamers that use all the ugly words to the finish driver.
Latvala has much more experience than the 3 you mention.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I left house only for 3 hours :) Never go out when Panzerplate is live :)

I nearly did! Thank god i didnt! :D

[JAM]

AND CONSISTENCY.


Forget that thing of consistency. When a drive runs above 100% the consistency is a joke. To beat a Citroen, the Fords have to run at 110%

[GigiGalliNo1]

LOEB CRASHES!!







(oh... only in my head..)

[rage82]

Ott is flying now, hope he can keep it.
PS: First tarmac stage win for Tanak

[JAM]

Latvala has much more experience than the 3 you mention.

But none of them had the responsability of challenge Loeb with a Ford. That makes the difference.

[René]

As he is at 1m30s fro Loeb, he decided not take risks, otherwise we would read bad things about him here. :)

:) There are so many persons who would like to see him beating Loeb, that when it fails it is a big disappointment and anger makes rage. I guess most of the time it's more an anger of disappointment than nastiness.. ;)

[Zeropt]

There are some rumours floating around that Armindo is trying to rent a VW for next year.

Someone following the rally can confirm this? :cool:


Back to Prokop`s fire, since in that condicions the stage would have to be neutralized, as was later confirmed, i don`t understand why other crews couln`t stop! :rolleyes:

[eib1]

Stage win for Tänak on tarmac.
I bet no-one wasn´t expecting that

[JAM]

Stage win for Tänak on tarmac.
I bet no-one wasn´t expecting that

He was promising something like that, and now that the competitive rally in terms of podium places is over, is good to Tanak and Sordo win some stages.

Interesting to see Atkinson being beat by Ogier in a S2000. The MSI Mini is fast like hell :D

[dimviii]

Novikovs close call

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt0zkw_joker-novikov-shakedown-deutschland-2012_auto?start=7

[dimviii]

open the volume at speakers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOcfBO_F4A&feature=player_embedded

[dimviii]

bl 187 tme lolololololol

μολις ειδες κωλιες εκανες like :D

[Rallyper]

You have to hand it to Mr Loeb- consumate professional. All over again bar the shouting, and the Ford boys have to drive the bollux off those Fiestas to even have a `sniff`. Petter, I love you to bits, but you just cant catch him- perhaps its time to let the youngsters have a go. Having said that, the only way to catch him ,is if he retires this year. I hope he doesnt, and I think he will go for No 10.

So if Petter can´t catch him, what makes you think anyone else can?

No, with all respects to Mr Loeb - historically he will be known as the best rallydriver ever. But also as the rallydriver who destroyed WRC.

[stefanvv]

open the volume at speakers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOcfBO_F4A&feature=player_embedded

The master of the sound is missing :p

[Rallyper]

Latvala has much more experience than the 3 you mention.

And the only one mentioned who can challenge Loeb. But have to drive omn the edge. That´s why all the crashes. Without Loeb less crashes for many drivers.

[stefanvv]

Don't blame Latvalla crashing trying to beat Loeb. At least he is trying to do that.

[Salist]

Pump of the volume!!! :-)

[xavier]

Loeb is the most lucky driver on the planet it looks like for now

Memory can do trick on you.Surely he got lucky on that one (SS7).

But let's not forget he lost NZ by less by a second in 2007 because he was the caught by the rain and not Marcus.
Even worse: he lost Catalunya in 2003 to Pannizi because the unexpected rain played right into Gilles desperation gamble to use soft tires while everyone else used hard. That lost in 2003 cause him to not be crowned WC.

Remember, luck come and goes: overall it will even.

[tfp]

So if Petter can´t catch him, what makes you think anyone else can?

No, with all respects to Mr Loeb - historically he will be known as the best rallydriver ever. But also as the rallydriver who destroyed WRC.


Also the one that doesn't particurlarly care about the series he is destroying. A quote from Mr Loeb -


"Whether I’ve got eight, nine or 10 titles it doesn’t make a real difference to me at all. If I feel that I don’t want to carry on, it would be stupid to continue reluctantly.”

World Rally Championship - News - News Archive - Loeb: I just do the simple things (http://www.wrc.com/news/archive/loeb-i-just-do-the-simple-things/?fid=17273)

[EightGear]

Why would he continue if he doesn't want to? Because it will be bad for the sport?

He can make his own decisions. I hope he stays for one more year.

[stefanvv]

Is PP2 late or something?

[Tom206wrc]

Now it's time for Panzerplatte 2 :bounce:

[dimviii]

sport is fu@#d by the impotence of Ford and their management to be serious at drivers choices,and their strategy at rallies.
Is not Loeb fault if they are playing like amateurs.Is not Loebs fault if Petter and Jari after 10 years at non stop wrc entry they can t finish a single rally with 4 wheels in the fiesta.Is not Loebs fault that they can t setup for a single rally their fiesta proper.Again in Germany soft setup for Jari and wrong tyre choice for the 10th? time this year.
Would you all prefere to have for champion Jari or Petter with these performance they show this year?You really prefere this instead of Loeb even if it is for 9th time? I dont.I want the champion to deserve the cup.
Ιn many sports there are athlets that have dominate for years championships.They didn t destroy their sport.Simply they raised the level.(Schumacher,Rossi ie)
Don t moan about Loeb,better thank God that we have the opportunity to see his perfection.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo stopped AGAIN on Panz stage..

[GigiGalliNo1]

Has to be more then a puncture if he's stopped... on Arena Panzerplatte 2

[stefanvv]

sport is fu@#d by the impotence of Ford and their management to be serious at drivers choices,and their strategy at rallies.
Is not Loeb fault if they are playing like amateurs.Is not Loebs fault if Petter and Jari after 10 years at non stop wrc entry they can t finish a single rally with 4 wheels in the fiesta.Is not Loebs fault that they can t setup for a single rally their fiesta proper.Again in Germany soft setup for Jari and wrong tyre choice for the 10th? time this year.
Would you all prefere to have for champion Jari or Petter with these performance they show this year?You really prefere this instead of Loeb even if it is for 9th time? I dont.I want the champion to deserve the cup.
Ιn many sports there are athlets that have dominate for years championships.They didn t destroy their sport.Simply they raised the level.(Schumacher,Rossi ie)
Don t moan about Loeb,better thank God that we have the opportunity to see his perfection.

Solberg already had beaten him once.

[donlorean]

Last 8 years Citroen is made cars just how Loeb likes it. They know what kind of a car Seb likes. So I don't think that anyone can beat Loed in tarmac when cars are made just for him... Wilson talks bull**** how Ford are fastest but why in hell it always ends like it did today in Petter. I understand that if it happens sometimes but always??? It was same when Mikko drove Ford. It's happened many times to JM also... Ford can do some good times but Citroen can do good times in every stage. And if Ford drivers try to push hard enough to challenges Loeb, they'll crash. Sooner or later. Mikko's job is to drive safely to finish. He's not very good in tarmac so Citroen aren't that stupid that they let him to push 100%. This year shows that he is the world's best 2nd driver. I don't know that can he ever be 1st...

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItgXHB6s5_g

[GigiGalliNo1]

Maybe Ford are thinking more with their Wallets then Citroen...

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/542382_10151175553467922_1623890960_n.jpg

[tolis]

Tanak problems? :(

[Bartek]

So looks like Tanak and Sordo have problems

[GigiGalliNo1]

From Helicopter… Sordo looks into the bonnet on side of the road… Tanak hit Hinklestein!

[stefanvv]

Yeaaaah, hit one of these nice concur blocks aside

[GigiGalliNo1]

Van Merksteijn stopped and blocking stage!! Same place as Tanak!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo phoned to service/team. He is OUT

[GigiGalliNo1]

Tanak retired as well. Confirmed.

[stefanvv]

Shame

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Boys are learning :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

VM rolled in front of Tanak where Tanak stopped.

[Salist]

Ohh f..ck. :-(


Sordo phoned to service/team. He is OUT

[andyone]

As he is at 1m30s fro Loeb, he decided not take risks, otherwise we would read bad things about him here. :)

Lol very true

[GigiGalliNo1]

Nasser is at VM car... blocking road.

[stefanvv]

PP1 was bad, but 2nd is fatal :eek:

[Bartek]

Sordo had crash

[GigiGalliNo1]

Stage is continuing, cars have been moved.. Østberg and Atkinson will be next to complete...will move to fourth and fifth

[Bartek]

Novikov is running again

[stefanvv]

As he is at 1m30s fro Loeb, he decided not take risks, otherwise we would read bad things about him here. :)

Why should he? This is not Mexico to take 20 seconds from him at 5-6 splits.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Everyone after AL-ATTIYAH will get a nominated time it seems.

[dimviii]

good gambling from Mads at previous stage
ØSTBERG M. / ANDERSSON J. (st. č. 10) "We pushed really hard and keep equal with Tanak until he crashed.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo: MINI has some front and side damage and lost cooling fluid from radiator.

[stefanvv]

Another hinklestein for Sordo?!?

[stefanvv]

good gambling from Mads at previous stage
ØSTBERG M. / ANDERSSON J. (st. č. 10) "We pushed really hard and keep equal with Tanak until he crashed.

:D that is brutal

[GigiGalliNo1]

Another hinklestein for Sordo?!?

MINI has some front and side damage and lost cooling fluid from radiator.

[Jafry]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/1068/1068_adac_rally_deutschland_2012_6fab0f4577.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/1068/1068_adac_rally_deutschland_2012_8beb93c94f.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/1068/1068_adac_rally_deutschland_2012_23bcd9bd85.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/1068/1068_adac_rally_deutschland_2012_3aceede90a.jpg

More photos from DAY 2 HERE (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1068)

[JAM]

Don t moan about Loeb,better thank God that we have the opportunity to see his perfection.

Yeha, thank God because the WRC is destroyed.

Sainz, Kankkunen, Mcrae, Makinen, Solberg, all this guys together at the same time were not perfect, but were fantastic, even with lesss titles than Loeb. Now we have one guy, mr perfection, and the WRC is a mess, losing interest year by year.

And there's the million dollar question: Why Loeb never tried another team? Why he didn't went to VW? I know the answer that is obvious: Affraid of not winning anymore. If with a good VW wouldn't win, then the guy is not the best.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Unconfirmed report is that Tanak hit Sordo's car...

[dimviii]

Yeha, thank God because the WRC is destroyed.

Sainz, Kankkunen, Mcrae, Makinen, Solberg, all this guys together at the same time were not perfect, but were fantastic, even with lesss titles than Loeb. Now we have one guy, mr perfection, and the WRC is a mess, losing interest year by year.

And there's the million dollar question: Why Loeb never tried another team? Why he didn't went to VW? I know the answer that is obvious: Affraid of not winning anymore. If with a good VW wouldn't win, then the guy is not the best.

you forget to write that Citroen build tailored cars to him,and about the secret nuclear suspension.
So much pain...

[JAM]

you forget to write that Citroen build tailored cars to him,and about the secret nuclear suspension.
So much pain...

The pain is the same that avoided Loeb of changing team. Simple.

[René]

you forget to write that Citroen build tailored cars to him,and about the secret nuclear suspension.
So much pain...

If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??
we cannot reproach Loeb for weakness of his opponent. :)

[stefanvv]

If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??
we cannot reproach Loeb for weakness of his opponent. :)

Weakness, haha. is that the reason Ogier to go to VW. :D

EDIT: I'm quite sure Citroen are much happier with Hirvonen as 2nd driver.

[René]

Yeha, thank God because the WRC is destroyed.

Sainz, Kankkunen, Mcrae, Makinen, Solberg, all this guys together at the same time were not perfect, but were fantastic, even with lesss titles than Loeb. Now we have one guy, mr perfection, and the WRC is a mess, losing interest year by year.

And there's the million dollar question: Why Loeb never tried another team? Why he didn't went to VW? I know the answer that is obvious: Affraid of not winning anymore. If with a good VW wouldn't win, then the guy is not the best.

If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??
we cannot reproach Loeb for weakness of the opponents. :)

[Bartek]

Unconfirmed report is that Tanak hit Sordo's car...

wow, interesting

[René]

Weakness, haha. is that the reason Ogier to go to VW. :D

Ogier begins his career Loeb ends it. Duel will take place in 2013 between 2 Seb, but it will not change the weak performances of other drivers... ;)

[JAM]

If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??

After proved almost all with so many titles, i would prove to myself that still was the best with other car.

That's what he avoided to prove.

[stefanvv]

Ogier begins his career Loeb ends it. Duel will take place in 2013 between 2 Seb, but it will not change the weak performances of other drivers... ;)

Of course it will be 2013. Meantime Loeb gets 2 more titles very easily (in terms of internal team competition). ;)

[r199]

Ogier begins his career Loeb ends it. Duel will take place in 2013 between 2 Seb, but it will not change the weak performances of other drivers... ;)

Only reason Loeb is stil driving, is that team mates of him have to stay behind. (ford does a F***up annyway)

[rp]

During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.

Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...

[stefanvv]

During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.

Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...

:up: And now he claims 8-9-10 titles doesn't matter :D sure, he convinced me...

EDIT: WRC is not boring because he is the best, I know he is. But last year and this all victories must be granted to him. That is boring... :(

[René]

Only reason Loeb is stil driving, is that team mates of him have to stay behind. (ford does a F***up annyway)

This it is the favourite legend to make of Loeb bashing. :)
It is not enough to diminish great performances of the best champion to make bigger the small performance of others. We must remain a little bit serious ;)

[eestlane]

Karl Kruuda & Martin Järveoja crash Rally Germany 2012 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmC3jX_LeNQ)
Kruudas crash from yesterday

[denkimi]

During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.

Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...
I agree on that.
the events with ogier make the statements of duval pretty credible to me. and if we know/suspect that both ogier and duval where not allowed to compete with loeb, it is doubtful sordo or hirvonen where free to do it.

yes, loeb is the best, i don't think anybody would disagree on that. but if he wouldn't have had the best car for most of the years, combined with a teammate who works only for him, he would not have 8 titles.

[stefanvv]

ADAC Deutschland Rallye - Mikkelsen break a tree [HD] By Devillersvideo - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7h43mkeDOw) Little mistake from Mikkelsen. Poor tree :D

Damn. What that tree is doing there :D

[Barreis]

Boring rally. :P

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Great result from Hirvonen and Latvala. If stars, moon, sun, others planets and rocks etc...are set right we will get tomorrow double podium to FINLAND. But let´s see.

[donlorean]

A lot of people are dreaming here. People said that the Xsara was made for Loeb, and that was why he won...

I said something like that earlier... But I think that i didn't make me clear enough... Loeb don't win any rally because of the car. He win because he is an excellent driver. But now when Loeb is driven by Citroen so many years, they are in situation where 1+1 is more than 2. Loeb is so relaxed in car and he trust it so much that he don't have to do any magic tricks with the car. He don't have to push it over the limit for win. And if Ford drivers want to win, they have to push over the limits... Sometimes they succeed but most of the time they don't...

[stefanvv]

Before this year people said that the change with the running order would be good "against" Loeb, and again nothing changed...

I'm glad we have QS now. Seems drivers are driving at full speed at gravel rallies :D

[Zeropt]

During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.

Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...

x2! ;)

[hanjob11]

Hello,

some pictures of todays stages ar online at rally3.de (http://www.rally3.de)

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2012_1660/rallye_deutschland_2006/samstag_2009/album_1_2016/deutschland12_wp7kh_061_20120825_1197649410.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2012_1660/rallye_deutschland_2006/samstag_2009/album_2_2017/deutschland12_remoteservicekh_010_20120825_1479282 392.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2012_1660/rallye_deutschland_2006/samstag_2009/album_1_2016/deutschland12_wp7kh_034_20120825_2063372244.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2012_1660/rallye_deutschland_2006/samstag_2009/album_2_2017/deutschland12_remoteservicekh_145_20120825_2081975 247.jpg

Karsten

[Tom206wrc]

Matthieu Arzeno 10th overall !!! Keep that work tomorrow Matthieu !!! :up:

[r199]

@ Karsten last photo is the best, mmm :D

[janvanvurpa]

A lot of people are dreaming here. People said that the Xsara was made for Loeb, and that was why he won. For the '06 season they said "let's see what Loeb will do without electronic diffs". Nothing changed. For the '07 season they said "We'll see if he will be so competitive with the C4 also." Yes he was... Later it was "everyone has the same tyres from now on, Loeb will not have his advantage from Meteo France and from better tyres anymore." And still, he won. Before last year some said that he wouldn't be so competitive with the "less-sofisticated" 1.6T WRC cars, but... Before this year people said that the change with the running order would be good "against" Loeb, and again nothing changed... Always the same people who find out ridiculous excuses. Post 676 is a good joke also by the way :D "The car is made for Loeb." What did you expect?! Of course Loeb helped with the development, but first, a car is made to go as fast as possible, I don't believe that engineers care much about how easy a car is to drive (by the way, in National championships we see that the C4 WRC's are much more difficult to drive than the Focus WRC's), all they want is the best results, and so does Loeb... And why did Loeb not change team? Imagine that you have found your dream-job, working in a healthy company with collegues you know for years, people who listen to what your opinion is, and also people who speak your own language. WHY would you change to another company with less financial-healthy conditions,.

I wonder if the decisive thing is just that very thing about long term relationships and mutual respect...You're right, its totally absurd, insane even to zero in on and claim "The car is built just for Loeb".. Well who the hell is Ford building their car for? Ben Klock? Me?
I keep referencing this old long interview with Christian Loriaux (http://www.juwra.com/loriaux_christian.html) in magazine Racecar Engineering right when he came aborad at Prodrive---and subsequently we know, right when Subaru began their sudden and drastic decline that led to them leaving WRC...
Now all the details of things are one thing, but the shocking and lasting impression of the article was his enormous ego, and how he said in many ways, and in clear way that the drivers are not capable of understanding "all the systems" like he can
and so, in essence, not explicite but clear nonetheless, you (he) really don't need to listen to their uneducated subjective feedback..because HE knows better everything going on in the car..

Now I'm not making this up, I love languages and I read very very well, and not just superficially, when i read I understand when you say things you imply tons of more things......and this was English so not too hard to understand...
Quite frankly I could not believe what he was saying and implying---except that I have known academics and engineers exactly like this who "know" they know in short "everything" and that their "knowledge" trumps all other opinions and that includes direct experience..
Now most people I know over 20-30 years don't seem to change their "world view". They may learn more details but their view of their relationship to the external world doesn't change--probably not from when they're children..

So if he was saying you can't listen to the drivers back then, and he's clearly the darling child of M-Sprout, then why would he listen to anybody.

This makes me wonder if the key to Loebs long success is a more co-operative or collaborationist atmosphere at Citroen vis-a-vis Loeb and the designers/engineers and maybe even down to the mechanics vs the "Great man" theory in the more hierarchical British culture which we have no reason to think doesn't permeate M-sport. And that observation is from working with elite level French mechanics and teams and being around elite or former elite British mechanics and engineers....

Or the opposite way to look at it is maybe the struggles of the other teams stems from their probably more hierarchical organisation, and people....

I base that on the times which like I did claculate yesterday, Petter was cruising along at an actual 0.997% of Loebs times.
So the car can do it, the drivers can do it down to 0.003% (that's three one thousandth of 1 percent).
But something cracks consistently... maybe so simple as Team 'atmosphere'?

[tfp]

I agree on that.
the events with ogier make the statements of duval pretty credible to me. and if we know/suspect that both ogier and duval where not allowed to compete with loeb, it is doubtful sordo or hirvonen where free to do it.

yes, loeb is the best, i don't think anybody would disagree on that. but if he wouldn't have had the best car for most of the years, combined with a teammate who works only for him, he would not have 8 titles.

What if Gronholm was Loebs team mate all those years ago? Then Loeb may only have 5 titles instead of 9 ;)

There again, I might not have watched WRC then,I dont like the sight of blood....

[dimviii]

The pain is the same that avoided Loeb of changing team. Simple.

Jari and Mikko from what i ve heard were payed at Ford less than half million.Loeb was at 6 millions these years and about 12 only from Citroen(a move to Ford =loss of red bull also=> more millions).Can you show me a champion that he changed the winning team for 1/7 of money when he haven t got any problem?Waiting for your example.

[rallye-sport]

2nd day -> Photos Rallye Allemagne 2012 (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/photos-rallye-allemagne-2012/)

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/allemagne-2012/img_5553.jpg



http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/allemagne-2012/img_5697.jpg

[stefanvv]

This makes me wonder if the key to Loebs long success is a more co-operative or collaborationist atmosphere at Citroen vis-a-vis Loeb and the designers/engineers and maybe even down to the mechanics vs the "Great man" theory in the more hierarchical British culture which we have no reason to think doesn't permeate M-sport. And that observation is from working with elite level French mechanics and teams and being around elite or former elite British mechanics and engineers....


Team atmosphere is good when Mr. Matton orders the pawns on the board.

[stefanvv]

Any news/links/photo/video for the historic part of this Rally?

[Rom1]

Our pics from day 2:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185442_435720569803631_1916967460_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304816_435721173136904_1588285996_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/574697_435722843136737_881498980_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524279_435722456470109_1582882432_n.jpg

Full album HERE (http://www.facebook.com/eyesofrally)

[Rallyper]

I wonder if the decisive thing is just that very thing about long term relationships and mutual respect...You're right, its totally absurd, insane even to zero in on and claim "The car is built just for Loeb".. Well who the hell is Ford building their car for? Ben Klock? Me?
I keep referencing this old long interview with Christian Loriaux (http://www.juwra.com/loriaux_christian.html) in magazine Racecar Engineering right when he came aborad at Prodrive---and subsequently we know, right when Subaru began their sudden and drastic decline that led to them leaving WRC...
Now all the details of things are one thing, but the shocking and lasting impression of the article was his enormous ego, and how he said in many ways, and in clear way that the drivers are not capable of understanding "all the systems" like he can
and so, in essence, not explicite but clear nonetheless, you (he) really don't need to listen to their uneducated subjective feedback..because HE knows better everything going on in the car..

Now I'm not making this up, I love languages and I read very very well, and not just superficially, when i read I understand when you say things you imply tons of more things......and this was English so not too hard to understand...
Quite frankly I could not believe what he was saying and implying---except that I have known academics and engineers exactly like this who "know" they know in short "everything" and that their "knowledge" trumps all other opinions and that includes direct experience..
Now most people I know over 20-30 years don't seem to change their "world view". They may learn more details but their view of their relationship to the external world doesn't change--probably not from when they're children..

So if he was saying you can't listen to the drivers back then, and he's clearly the darling child of M-Sprout, then why would he listen to anybody.

This makes me wonder if the key to Loebs long success is a more co-operative or collaborationist atmosphere at Citroen vis-a-vis Loeb and the designers/engineers and maybe even down to the mechanics vs the "Great man" theory in the more hierarchical British culture which we have no reason to think doesn't permeate M-sport. And that observation is from working with elite level French mechanics and teams and being around elite or former elite British mechanics and engineers....

Or the opposite way to look at it is maybe the struggles of the other teams stems from their probably more hierarchical organisation, and people....

I base that on the times which like I did claculate yesterday, Petter was cruising along at an actual 0.997% of Loebs times.
So the car can do it, the drivers can do it down to 0.003% (that's three one thousandth of 1 percent).
But something cracks consistently... maybe so simple as Team 'atmosphere'?

OK, team atmosphere is important regarding every day business as known on Wall Street and other businesses.

But no, this tiny difference cannot be explained as "team atmosphere" it´s just spelled LOEB. When he cruises around the other top guys, and mark I call them top drivers because they are, have to to do everything they can to have same speed. But no, it´s impossible to have that for example on 45 km German tarmac stage.

So let´s see this clear. Mr Loeb is so superntural that unless he don´t qiut the WRC ASAP the WRC will be dead and gone in a couple of years from now...

[skarderud]

Ιn many sports there are athlets that have dominate for years championships.They didn t destroy their sport.Simply they raised the level.(Schumacher,Rossi ie)
Don t moan about Loeb,better thank God that we have the opportunity to see his perfection.

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

[stefanvv]

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

Shumacher destroyed F1 - No, FIA did that. I like the yearly days of Schumacher when he was trying to beat Senna, Hakkinen, etc with slower car. Last his (champion) years were lame though, he was just cruising to victory just like Loeb does now... strange coincidence. I hope WRC will very much survive and get back it's charm next year.

[pettersolberg29]

he also have the best codriver.

Not sure if there's ever been a proper discussion about the relative merits of co-drivers but from conversations with people who have far more rally knowledge and experience than myself, I've been told Elena isn't a great co-driver really. Obviously good, but not great - it's simply that he makes Loeb feel 'comfortable' (which some may argue is what makes a good co-driver). From people who have discussed these sort of things in depth I'm led to believe Giraudet and Floene are generally regarded as the best in the business, but feel free to correct me/put forward a different opinion!

[Barreis]

I believe only in results - if Elena was co-driver in 8 titles, then he must be the best.

[BleAivano]

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.


A good driver also make sure he has a good car.
Meaning he will be a vital part in making the team and car.

Its not like the driver just drives the car at the race/rally and everything is already done.
Both in WRC and F1 there is allot of hours of testing from the drivers and it also requires them
to be able to give good input to the engineers and mechanics on the car, settings and etc.

As well as "finding"/"picking" his team. I'm pretty sure that Seb knows exactly how he want
the car to be, what typ of mechanics and engineers he want to have around him.

Obviously Citroen have the biggest budget but it does not matter if you don't spend the money
in the right way. Its like in sailing it doesn't help to have the fastest boat if you're going in the wrong direction.

[Bartek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDCvY8gLuI&feature=player_embedded

too fast

[tolis]

http://s5.postimage.org/lyao15f85/ADAC_Rallye_Deutschland_2012_leg1_558.jpg

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/375849_515197671830088_1598281556_n.jpg

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL_IvGkG8EM&feature=player_embedded

[stefanvv]

Go go VW Fabia, 6th and 7th so far :up:

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDi_gsYQcNY&feature=player_embedded

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M66WGr7Vg80&feature=player_embedded

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/561620_338404056249362_2075796989_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/295236_338404119582689_663660916_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/549754_338404159582685_708982382_n.jpg

[danon]

The human being is a strange unsatisfied creature.

A man (Loeb) and a team (Citroen) set the limit.
As simple as that.

All the rest can only try to be(at) the best.
Go for it!

[N.O.T]

Shumacher destroyed F1 - No, FIA did that. I like the yearly days of Schumacher when he was trying to beat Senna, Hakkinen, etc with slower car. Last his (champion) years were lame though, he was just cruising to victory just like Loeb does now... strange coincidence. I hope WRC will very much survive and get back it's charm next year.

i remember watching F1 until i became 17... then i became an alpha male wolf and abandoned my girly habbits.

I believe schumacher is great role model for the girls of today along with the other heroes like hamilton and kimmi kid... young women of today need people to look up to.

[stefanvv]

i remember watching F1 until i became 17... then i became an alpha male wolf and abandoned my girly habbits.

I believe schumacher is great role model for the girls of today along with the other heroes like hamilton and kimmi kid... young women of today need people to look up to.

Yeaaaah, F1 today is model's stage. There is no real motorsport there. At least some have fun with it :D

[stefanvv]

The human being is a strange unsatisfied creature.

A man (Loeb) and a team (Citroen) set the limit.
As simple as that.

All the rest can only try to be(at) the best.
Go for it!

No one can now. Simple as that :D

[dimviii]

i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

they have to try at THEIR 105% because at EVERY rally there is a WRONG setup for both Ford drivers.Yes with wrong setup the highest possibility is to crash.When there is no the ''wrong setup'' they ruined the rally with wrong tyre choices.
These drivers worth a championship?But Loeb have ruined the wrc.....
Ford were for 3 days tests for Germany.Suddenly in a rally they have compete for almost a decade they found at first stages brake fade.
What are they doing at tests????? They didn t had fade????? These comments are laughable from wanabe champions against Loeb.If you can t find the proper pads,after 3 days tests is not lucky Loeb.
No mate THEY DONT DESERVE A CHAMPIONSHIP,drivers and team._

[dimviii]

During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.

Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...

I want to show me another example of a 8 times world champion with 60+ wins that when his team mate won 2 rallies they made him No2 in the team while he was at that time 1st in points with margin from 2nd driver.
These things have existence only at amateurs ie see how they treat this year Ford their driver with most points.
At serious profesional teams there is a number 1 and a number 2 with specific roles for each driver.As we saw at later rallies last year Ogier couldn t play the number 1 being slow and out of road.
Can you sum the points Ogier collected at 2nd half vs Loeb points? Championship was totally open with Quesnels @##%%

[stefanvv]

I want to show me another example of a 8 times world champion with 60+ wins that when his team mate won 2 rallies they made him No2 in the team while he was at that time 1st in points with margin from 2nd driver.
These things have existence only at amateurs ie see how they treat this year Ford their driver with most points.
At serious profesional teams there is a number 1 and a number 2 with specific roles for each driver.As we saw at later rallies last year Ogier couldn t play the number 1 being slow and out of road.
Can you sum the points Ogier collected at 2nd half vs Loeb points? Championship was totally open with Quesnels @##%%

That is one think I personally don't like in motorsport. Always there must be N1 and N2. What if Loeb decides to drive until 45? Poor Hirvonen.... But I'm just regular race fan, not a company which spends billions per year to be N1.

[danon]

But Loeb have ruined the wrc.....

Complete Nonsense!
Let's make a poll and see how many think your way.
Аny sober person would recognize the achievements of Mr. Backflip.
The guy shows how it should be done and set the pace for years to come.
Get over it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UboR7FZrys

[rallye-vid]

Dani and Ott can restart tomorrow.

vM Junior ended the rally today.

[tfp]

OK, team atmosphere is important regarding every day business as known on Wall Street and other businesses.

But no, this tiny difference cannot be explained as "team atmosphere" it´s just spelled LOEB. When he cruises around the other top guys, and mark I call them top drivers because they are, have to to do everything they can to have same speed. But no, it´s impossible to have that for example on 45 km German tarmac stage.

So let´s see this clear. Mr Loeb is so superntural that unless he don´t qiut the WRC ASAP the WRC will be dead and gone in a couple of years from now...

Bottom line of your post is what i fear.

From what Matton said today, it sounds like Loeb will be in next year. But so will Ogier :) He has a score to settle with his former team mate. I thought JML would get the job done this year, with his performance on tarmac last year, and his overall pace, I had never predicted his season would be like this. Hopefuly Ogier wont "do a latvala" next year.

[makinen_fan]

Complete Nonsense!
Let's make a poll and see how many think your way.
Аny sober person would recognize the achievements of Mr. Backflip.
The guy shows how it should be done and set the pace for years to come.
Get over it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UboR7FZrys

i think (and hope) diimvii was being sarcastic there... loeb sets the benchmark and it's not his fault that no one can match him

[spiderem]

Loeb killing the WRC or not, that is the question! but i personally think that we will wait a loooooong time to witness such achievement in any motorsport whatsoever again once he retires. so congrats for all the records.
on the other side, once again Hirvo will finish on the podium, even though he was way off the pace from km 1. That proves how smart he is too, he knows he can't be fast, doesn't like the rally, off the rhythm and yet still score more point than Solberg. He would have been a truly deserved world champion if he wasn't competing at the same era than loeb... to be continued.

[JAM]

Loeb is like Makinen some years ago. He was the best of the best... until Mitsubishi stoped investing money.

Then, with 4 titles on the pocket, Makinen decided try one of the best team: Subaru. The rest of the story all of you already know.

That's what Loeb is no man to do. He is affraid of losing the status.

[Plan9]

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

For the resons you mention above I pretty much have written this year off. With Mini and VW treating this season as basically another test year and Ogier, JML not being competitive (think about JML points after what happened in Monaco and Mexico) I am not really interested in what Loeb does now as the title is a dead certainty. Hopefully next year Mini and VW can put something up that gives Loeb some worries.

[janvanvurpa]

That is one think I personally don't like in motorsport. Always there must be N1 and N2. What if Loeb decides to drive until 45? Poor Hirvonen.... But I'm just regular race fan, not a company which spends billions per year to be N1.


That's the thing, though. In professional motorsports you get paid to do a job, those that pay the piper call the tune...
When I was a paid guy crashing my meager brains out, I was paid 'Start money" by the organiser of the event. They paid me to put on a good a show as I could since we all know I wasn't going to be fighting for the win.. If a reporter asked me about what I thought of the event or somebody put a camera in my face, I better speak up, be friendly and have something amusing to say in decent French. If I crashed I was supposed to get up and put a charge on even if it hurt like hell and some minor thing like a couple of fingers were broken, or bleeding and bruised all to hell.. They paid good, I did what they asked.

A No.2 driver knows this by time they have gotten to that level, they have managers and people to explain their role, and they know how fast they are compared to the other guys so they know what they should do: they do what they are paid to.
Dimvii is right.
Every business has its own hierarchy, or chain of command.. It takes some maturity of disciple or seeing a bigger picture than your own momentary wishes to function well in a big hierarchy... Some can do it--and reap long term benefits, clearly Loeb can and does.. So maybe just aren't team people enough, or the team is too fantasy based..

Clearly something is wrong with the people deciding car build and set up at Ford with drastically wrong set ups and pads and tires, it's not like they car or the road or the driver's have changed that much...is it they gamble more?

Anyway that's the way it is when you accept money...you do what you're told to..

(Thank goodness I was my own mechanic, engine builder, suspension specialist, driver for the transport and diesel mechanic, oh and my own manager mostly :s mash: because I'm not a guy who works in a team environment that well...)( And all those things worked good for paying the rent later when I was old and broken and washed up at 3:s mokin :)

[N.O.T]

For the resons you mention above I pretty much have written this year off. With Mini and VW treating this season as basically another test year and Ogier, JML not being competitive (think about JML points after what happened in Monaco and Mexico) I am not really interested in what Loeb does now as the title is a dead certainty. Hopefully next year Mini and VW can put something up that gives Loeb some worries.

especially mini... and Ogier was not competitive this year unfortunately....he could be a challenge for sure for the title this year but he did not deliver.... pity... and what about Meeke... he also was a challenger until mid season but after losing the chance to compete in the first 7 rounds i think he doesn't any chances anymore...he might come back to win everything though... Nobre is also getting experience round by round so next year so next year especially if Loeb retires he could be a force...

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Yes Loeb is good and awesome in Germany. But is this topic for Germany Rally talk?!

[skarderud]

they have to try at THEIR 105% because at EVERY rally there is a WRONG setup for both Ford drivers.Yes with wrong setup the highest possibility is to crash.When there is no the ''wrong setup'' they ruined the rally with wrong tyre choices.
These drivers worth a championship?But Loeb have ruined the wrc.....
Ford were for 3 days tests for Germany.Suddenly in a rally they have compete for almost a decade they found at first stages brake fade.
What are they doing at tests????? They didn t had fade????? These comments are laughable from wanabe champions against Loeb.If you can t find the proper pads,after 3 days tests is not lucky Loeb.
No mate THEY DONT DESERVE A CHAMPIONSHIP,drivers and team._

It wasn't irony, it isn't seb's fault. It the other teams fault, the whole package isn't at citroens level. I think that the cars finally is close to equal, but the teamstrategy in msport is a joke. Always some ****ups to destroy a proper result, i.g brakepads, tyrechoice, setup, strategy or whatever.

Petter did the only right thing, try to put pressure on seb. Why secure a second, its no point anyway! You have to beat him, to acive anything against seb.

[rallysupportnl]

Video Day Two WRC Rallye Deutschland 2012


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRU6a32CBuw

[skarderud]

"I don't know how much damage has been done," said Wilson, "but they have slid into something and damaged the right-rear of the car.
"It sounds like they broke all the rear suspension, so if they got out of the stage it was unlikely they would have got to service. This way we are hopeful of getting the car out for tomorrow.
"We wanted him to keep the pressure on [rally leader Sebastien] Loeb, but there was no reason to take any risks. It's very frustrating and disappointing.
"We have had a very good package here, but it's been the same story all season: the car's had the pace [to win], but then there's a disappointment."
Solberg's team-mate Jari-Matti Latvala continues to run in second in the sister Fiesta RS WRC.

Wilson to autosport, on the teams effort. Maybe he should be a litle smarter? Wrong pads, idiot strategy and tyrechoices noone can belive. He has his fair amount of the cake/misses all by himselves....

[Jeppe]

Wake up! Day 3 is about to start in a minute.

[rage82]

It's raining on the stages this morning, so we can see some more action until the rally end.

[trifonvl]

Any TV coverage for the sss?

[Bartek]

i think ARD Das Erste from 13:15,