WRC Rally Argentina 2012

[N.O.T]

i am in paralel universe?

This one...

the rest have no meaning...

Rally was never good for tv... and spectator numbers did not decrease because of competition... they decreased because now rallies are limited in a small area which has many advantages but also disadvantages... and because people prefer to stay home and watch tv motorsport or when they visit one to be surounded by commercial neon thingies and half dressed women since they are incapable or having anything at home...

Life in general adopts the fast-food mentality that's why rallying is trying to survive and you see useless clowns of nothingness with no soul getting all the publicity when they mix rallying with sideways shows...

It is the whole world that needs a restart in order for rallying to become attractive... and since it is a bit unlikely rallying needs to just stay focused on the values of those few people who love the sport no matter if their favourite driver is dominating or is a sick dog or the manufacturer that wins is the same as their garage car...

rallying doesn't need sheep ...we have ladysports like footbal and F1 for those overweight pop corn fans.

[oyunbozan]

Not enough spectators? based on what you say this?

based on for example in my country, which is about 75.000.000 people live in, only 300 to 500 people is truely intrested in rally but it was much more at 80's and 90's but it is tens of thousands of people interested in f1, even drag races are full of spectators. when i go spectating a national rally i see very few people.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Every girl have valve's and head gasket in his bags?


What girls are doing valves etc. if alternator belt is broken? Girls can fix belt but are you using valves and gaskets?!

[bassist]

This one...

the rest have no meaning...

Rally was never good for tv... and spectator numbers did not decrease because of competition... they decreased because now rallies are limited in a small area which has many advantages but also disadvantages... and because people prefer to stay home and watch tv motorsport or when they visit one to be surounded by commercial neon thingies and half dressed women since they are incapable or having anything at home...

Life in general adopts the fast-food mentality that's why rallying is trying to survive and you see useless clowns of nothingness with no soul getting all the publicity when they mix rallying with sideways shows...

It is the whole world that needs a restart in order for rallying to become attractive... and since it is a bit unlikely rallying needs to just stay focused on the values of those few people who love the sport no matter if their favourite driver is dominating or is a sick dog or the manufacturer that wins is the same as their garage car...

rallying doesn't need sheep ...we have ladysports like footbal and F1 for those overweight pop corn fans.

`Wow` this is all very deep!

[KKS]

What girls are doing valves etc. if alternator belt is broken? Girls can fix belt but are you using valves and gaskets?!

When belt are broke with working engine valves have a very hot "greetings" with pistons, isn't?
If I don't know exactly how Fiesta's WRC engine build and after alternator belt are broke - car still can go with a battery power, even 4km.. isn't?

[jbmarcus21]

Standings WRC 2012 [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs et Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/classements12.htm)

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Only rookies kill engines driving without waterpump, driver can notice when belt is gone. You can drive more than 4km with battery power.

[oyunbozan]

keep vanging master yoda. i gotta write the news, adios.

[A FONDO]

Standings WRC 2012 [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs et Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/classements12.htm)

You posted a link not-shortened for money?

[tmx]

sordo will not come back to ford ever after this bull****. alternator belt broke down in normal stage before last stage, ah yea.. it looks to be a late desicion to retire him to me. manufacturers title is totaly imposible because citroen has the most consistent drivers of today.. = Erroneous.

[dimviii]

When belt are broke with working engine valves have a very hot "greetings" with pistons, isn't?
If I don't know exactly how Fiesta's WRC engine build and after alternator belt are broke - car still can go with a battery power, even 4km.. isn't?

KKS the alternator belt is different from engine belt which cause the catastrophe when snapped.But yes it is possible to run few km with broken alternator belt,depents from the battery.

[EightGear]

I'm waiting for 2012 to start already. Hopefully Prodrive will be back 100% and things will start to look better again.

[dimviii]

Only rookies kill engines driving without waterpump, driver can notice when belt is gone. You can drive more than 4km with battery power.

you have confused too alternator belt with engine belt.

[Mirek]

When I complained about superally rulles I didn't think what could happen to Sordo. I'm really sorry he is the best proof for this words. Today he deserved points much more than Solberg, Neuville or Novikov...

[bluuford]

based on for example in my country, which is about 75.000.000 people live in, only 300 to 500 people is truely intrested in rally but it was much more at 80's and 90's but it is tens of thousands of people interested in f1, even drag races are full of spectators. when i go spectating a national rally i see very few people.
start of the off topic:
I thought that there are nearly 80 million people in Turkey? And your number between 300 and 500 does not look realistic. When the rally is popular in national level then people are more interested in WRC as well. I can see that national rally Championship is in rise in Turkey in last couple of years and therefore I expect WRC to grow in next couple of years as well. So, keep up your good work and positive mind, we enthusiasts are the ones who can make the rally more popular in our countries
End of the off topic

[Langdale Forest]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2yb2mhpAk1qihztbo1_250.gif

Really, it's crazy....

why, why, why, Delilah?

[dimviii]

Congrats to Loeb for his 70th win.Congrats to Mikko for being professional.
like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.
About Ford /Petter what can i say?....Same ****, different day unfortunately,for all of us and the sport we love.
Sordo a bit of dissapointment,but was complaining about his notes,tyre choice, and setup,so can t be sure.From his interviews i have a feeling that while he knew the right tyre choice, Ford had an opposite opinion.
Ostberg,Novikov,Nasser not so good,no progress at all.
Neuville mixed impressions.....speed sometimes is there,but he is all over the place causing problems.Clearly visible at almost all videos i ve seen.Ok 1st year so we have to be patience.
Roll on Greece! can t wait!

[skarderud]

@østberg, he was first time here, said before the start that he going to take it easy and not do any mistakes. I think he did it quite ok!

[Barreis]

Congrats to Loeb for his 70th win.Congrats to Mikko for being professional.
like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.
About Ford /Petter what can i say?....Same ****, different day unfortunately,for all of us and the sport we love.
Sordo a bit of dissapointment,but was complaining about his notes,tyre choice, and setup,so can t be sure.From his interviews i have a feeling that while he knew the right tyre choice, Ford had an opposite opinion.
Ostberg,Novikov,Nasser not so good,no progress at all.
Neuville mixed impressions.....speed sometimes is there,but he is all over the place causing problems.Clearly visible at almost all videos i ve seen.Ok 1st year so we have to be patience.
Roll on Greece! can t wait!

Waiting for Solberg's win in Greece.

[skarderud]

Ford/Petter is a different story, he maybe take to big risks. But its also weird how easy the Fords losts its wheels....

[bluuford]

When I cmplained about superally rulles I didn't think what could happen to Sordo. I'm really sorry he is the best proof for this words. Today he deserved points much more than Solberg, Neuville or Novikov...

Yes indeed. They should delete superally and increase the time limit to finish the stage a little. Then there is more motivation to fix the cars and more story for the press. Another example is comparison between Tänak and Novikov. Novikov lost the wheel at the beginning of the stage, Tänak broke the steering, fixed it in around 18 minutes and managed to continue. He was in trouble in next stage as well and finally managed to get going again but was OTL. Novikov and Neuville meanwhile sat on the side of the road and collected 5 minutes for each stage.. final results.. Neuville lost around 11 minutes, Novikov around 21 and Tänak around 37 minutes. Sordos situation is even worse.. So, what I want to say is the fact that many problems can be fixed in stage but it is easier and less time consuming to use superally.

[bluuford]

@østberg, he was first time here, said before the start that he going to take it easy and not do any mistakes. I think he did it quite ok!

Ostberg was there in 2010 as well

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen was first time either,and was fighting with Ogier inside the road and faultless for 500km.

[Rallyper]

I´ll wait for Ogier and Mikkelsen fight in real WRC-cars next year. That will be the day.

BTW girls with nylon stockings could be useful - needing a fan belt.)

[Fide]

1.000.000+ ESPECTATORS IN Argentina.....
In Greece just N.O.T. writting in this forum (from his living room) and who else ?

[rallye-vid]

I have to work, otherway i were there.. But ur all welcome in germany (another victory for Loeb...)! :o

[ridder]

Well kind of not very impressed by sordo whole weekend. He was clearly behind the other 3 factory drivers in terms of speed and basically at about same place (even time-wise) he would have been in a mini.

So one can wonder....

Sordo is not top 4 on gravel ( if we add Ogier then not even top 5) ?
Mini is not much worse than Fiesta... which actually seems tiny bit faster than Citroen on gravel ?

[KKS]

KKS the alternator belt is different from engine belt which cause the catastrophe when snapped.But yes it is possible to run few km with broken alternator belt,depents from the battery.

OK. Two different belts, we know that an alternator belt was broke at Sordo's Fiesta. So theoretically he can drive on a battery charge this 4km? But he don't do this, why?

[Mirek]

Maybe Fiesta has electric water pump like 207 S2000? Anyway You need to get to finish ramp, not only to finish of stage.

[J4MIE]

Maybe it broke before he reached the start of the stage? Maybe he realised he wouldn't get to the finish and so no point risking stopping in the middle of the road and causing problems for the rest of the competitors yet to start.

[tfp]

Unbelievable.... Sordo deserved it. Retiring on the last stage while he survied all stages... Rally 2 is ugly.

There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.

[Plan9]

Well at least Salazar finished without Rally2.

[EightGear]

like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.


I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his third rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

[pettersolberg29]

There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.

I think the idea behind Rally 2 is good; i.e. allowing cars to return to the competition. In some instances it provides great excitement e.g. Petter in Portugal, and also the chance to gain experience for young drivers, while for others it provides a second chance if there is a technical issue or something which isn't their fault. However the application of the theory into practise is ugly. I personally have no better solution though so would be hypocritical to criticise it!

It basically depends on what people prioritise as the most important thing in the WRC - pace or consistency. In my opinion pace is more important in modern rallying, and therefore when Petter has been possibly the fastest driver in the last 2 rallies I don't feel as bad for him to win stages to claw his way back up the leaderboard with Superrally penalties because he has the pace to win, and therefore getting 0 points seems harsh, even if fair. However sometimes drivers simply benefit from other problems when under Superrally, shown no pace at all and still end up in the points e.g. Novikov this weekend. Meanwhile Mikkelsen and Sordo get no points even though they lasted much longer. A simple solution would be to add Superrally to the final leg too, or possibly add some sort of rule like you have to win a stage or be top 3 in a stage or something to be eligible for Superrally points?

That's my thinking... out loud!

[pettersolberg29]

I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his second rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

I believe dimvii was referring to the rumours that VW want a German driver such as Wiegand or Gassner in their car as opposed to Abbring or Mikkelsen.

[J4MIE]

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

[pettersolberg29]

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

How about remove Superrally from the last rally of the season to avoid that problem? My opinion is that Superrally is needed as without it the manufacturers wouldn't have anywhere near as much coverage, especially if JML or Petter bin it first stage for example and then are no longer in the 'competition'. It's not very attractive to the people who make decisions, for want of a better phrase, when your cars could be out of the rally and therefore the spotlight after only 1km of a 400km rally! And for fans it's rubbish too - if I pay loads of money to see a rally abroad and then by Sunday none of the 4 manufacturer cars are running competitively I'll feel robbed... while Superrally is a very impure and ugly thing, it is also generally a positive idea I think.

[J4MIE]

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?

[pettersolberg29]

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?

Trouble is it's that attitude which almost killed the sport. Rallying is getting less and less popular and finally there's a chance it might be on the up with VW and hopefully one other manufacturer coming in, and to just sit back and not try and adapt rallying into the modern times is short-sighted and inevitably the wrong decision I think. You say there are plenty of other motorsports, and that's as may be, but personally I want more competition within the WRC. The fact that Ford and BMW have already moved into other motorsports i.e. Touring Cars suggests that the whole 'ethos of rallying' is no longer an attractive proposition?

As for the second question, I'm not sure what you mean.

[Xsara Fan]

OK. Two different belts, we know that an alternator belt was broke at Sordo's Fiesta. So theoretically he can drive on a battery charge this 4km? But he don't do this, why?

In Fiesta WRC the same belt works with alternator and with water pump.

[Mirek]

Trouble is it's that attitude which almost killed the sport. Rallying is getting less and less popular and finally there's a chance it might be on the up with VW and hopefully one other manufacturer coming in, and to just sit back and not try and adapt rallying into the modern times is short-sighted and inevitably the wrong decision I think. You say there are plenty of other motorsports, and that's as may be, but personally I want more competition within the WRC. The fact that Ford and BMW have already moved into other motorsports i.e. Touring Cars suggests that the whole 'ethos of rallying' is no longer an attractive proposition?

Existence of superally certainly doesn't make WRC the place to be for manufacturers nor a more popular sport. It's been here for enough time to prove that. In some way it destroyed the old spirit - that means You have to finish first. During those years everyone learned that retirement in one or two legs doesn't mean that much and especially in support championships it often completely ruined the value of the title. Driving like mad and crash every day except the last usually short one is sure spectacular but it destroys the origins of our sport and adds some fake feelings like when a retired driver wins all stages of last day because others don't need to push. His public image gets much higher than he deserves for crashing on first day. People shall admire the one who manages to get from start to finish in shortest time not the one who wins many stages but never finishes without superally. I think that last decade showed that making WRC a show for spectators didn't work. It hasn't worked for years so why shall it work now? Rallying was most popular when it was a real competition without superally, power stage and other useless PC-game features. If someone wants to restart, why not but no points for that.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

you have confused too alternator belt with engine belt.


Believe me, no I'M not. I'm doing this my full time job. Allso that enginebelt is timingbelt.

[Xsara Fan]

It`s impossible to change alternator/water pump belt during the race in short time and without help from team. To change it in Fiesta WRC you must remove one of the engine mounts. This photo I made in 2011 to show, where this belt is situated. It is UNDER this pipes. You can`t see it! (http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/xsarafan/belt.jpg)

[F1boat]

pretty simplistic logic... and totally wrong.

Competition is a plus but most people follow a sport because they like the sport itself... if Loeb leaves or start losing, rallying is not going to get any better numbers if it doesn't change its core.

I'm very sad that some people seem not to respect Loeb and Citroen for their incredible dedication and success. :( I say, well done Sebastien for victory number 70!

[dimviii]

I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his third rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

as pettersolberg29 told you ;)

[EightGear]

7th rally in a 4wd car ;) Also don't forget that his starting position was much better than Ogier's... But still a great prestation, he has a lot of potential.
Ok, fair enough but still his only 2nd on gravel in a 4wd car. When Ogier and Abbring had equal starting positions he could still keep up very well.

Back ontopic.

[JAM]

Again we can see how stupid superally system is. No matter if You manage to get over the hell of first leg and all the stages of the second one You are out today. Others who f*cked things in first few stages are still on point positions. Does the one who crash in second stage deserve points more than the one who crash after 400 km? The whole superally system is nonsense from the very beginning.

Without this "stupid system", we would had seen 4 WRC cars at the end of the rally.

I prefer this "stupid system".

[JAM]

I personally think that if they would be allowed to fight, Loeb would still win.

In Portugal, Ogier proved exactly the oposite.

[Mirek]

Without this "stupid system", we would had seen 4 WRC cars at the end of the rally.

I prefer this "stupid system".

Without that stupid system in all last decade they would drive to finish. Even to finish shall be something of an importance, a goal to achieve like it always used to be. It's like when they run 3000 meters on a stadium and someone after two laps stops and joins fresh again two laps before finish. It's just ridiculous.

[JAM]

Sordo a bit of dissapointment,but was complaining about his notes,tyre choice, and setup,so can t be sure.From his interviews i have a feeling that while he knew the right tyre choice, Ford had an opposite opinion.


In fact you are a guy that understand the things, but ONLY if Loeb isn't in the midle of the scenario.

If Loeb is in the midle of the scenario, the things like you wrote above would be conspiracy theories :D

[JAM]

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

If you can't reach results neither points, why to return to rallying?

Do it just to spend money and help organizares having more cars, is not very interesting to a team.

[JAM]

Without that stupid system in all last decade they would drive to finish. Even to finish shall be something of an importance, a goal to achieve like it always used to be. It's like when they run 3000 meters on a stadium and someone after two laps stops and joins fresh again two laps before finish. It's just ridiculous.

Mirek, you have to options. You can save 2/3, or you can save none.

I prefer to save 2/3, than none. It's not fair to the ones who retire on the last leg, but ok. I prefer that. Sordo, Armindo and Mikkelsen retired on the last leg. Bad luck for him.

[Francis44]

I think you guys are looking too much into the problem. Just expand the time penalty's and let them get on with it. I know it's easy to complain here behind computer following the rally but out on the stages spectators want to see cars, simple as that.

[dimviii]

In fact you are a guy that understand the things, but ONLY if Loeb isn't in the midle of the scenario.

If Loeb is in the midle of the scenario, the things like you wrote above would be conspiracy theories :D

dont confuse with my avatar.Credits are given where they deserved.So simple.

[pettersolberg29]

Without that stupid system in all last decade they would drive to finish. Even to finish shall be something of an importance, a goal to achieve like it always used to be. It's like when they run 3000 meters on a stadium and someone after two laps stops and joins fresh again two laps before finish. It's just ridiculous.

I see your points Mirek, and in part I agree with them. If Superrally never existed then drivers would drive differently as finishing would be all the more important and there'd be no second chances, and therefore there would probably be more finishers. But as Francis44 stated, fans need to see more than 4 or 5 cars on the stages, and if nothing like Superrally existed then in rallies like Argentina, this years Portugal or Greece there would likely be very few finishers. As you say, 'to finish first, first you have to finish' is a critical ethos within rallying, but while it keeps the soul of the rally, it disappoints the fans, drivers and teams when only 4 cars are running at the end. If rallying was as big as in the past where there were much larger and higher quality entry lists it wouldn't matter, but when the list is only 35-odd cars, and only 5 or 6 world class drivers then I think Superrally is needed.

[pettersolberg29]

The Rally2-system isn't what the sport should be... It would be better if someone who retired isn't in overall classification anymore, that's just fair, it's not normal that you can almost destroy your car and join again the day after...
What I think could be nice is if there's no rally2 (so if you retire the overall classification is something you can forget) but next to the normal system (25 points for winner etc) a system that rewards the best performers (meaning most fastest times, second fastest times etc) with for example 10-8-6 etc. There would be a reason to restart, without taking away the points from people who can complete a rally without making any big mistakes. It could be an extra reason to keep pushing for someone who can't gain a position in the general classification anymore...

That's potentially a good option, however in this instance Loeb and Mikko didn't have to push as they wanted a 1-2, whereas Petter had nothing to lose so could go flat out for stage wins. Having said that, your idea would stop people just driving to maintain position as stage wins would result in points so they'd still have to attack to gain those points.

[JAM]

The Rally2-system isn't what the sport should be... It would be better if someone who retired isn't in overall classification anymore, that's just fair, it's not normal that you can almost destroy your car and join again the day after...
What I think could be nice is if there's no rally2 (so if you retire the overall classification is something you can forget) but next to the normal system (25 points for winner etc) a system that rewards the best performers (meaning most fastest times, second fastest times etc) with for example 10-8-6 etc. There would be a reason to restart, without taking away the points from people who can complete a rally without making any big mistakes. It could be an extra reason to keep pushing for someone who can't gain a position in the general classification anymore...

Please, mantain the WRC simple. ok? No more confusion. These theories of make thing to leave the drivers to push are useless.

One of the solutions was to give a penalty by km and not per stage. A driver that retires receive the same 5min penalty by a 10km stage or by a 60km stage. It's not very fair.

It's only a question of finding a solution to solve the problem of the last leg.

[jcatanho]

But as Francis44 stated, fans need to see more than 4 or 5 cars on the stages, and if nothing like Superrally existed then in rallies like Argentina, this years Portugal or Greece there would likely be very few finishers.

If you look at Greece or Portugal rally results from the 70s and the 80s you can see that a lot of times only a few (sometimes 4 or 5) of the faster drivers finished the rally. And rallyes were very popular at that time.

For a moment ignore the public/TV factor and think about WRC only as a sport. If one race is 500km long how can a pilot that only drove half the distance get points for his performance? Or how can he finish in front of other pilots that drove the whole 500km?

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/mfotoargentina_030.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/mfotoargentina_033.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=3491&fotograf=188

[RAS007]

If one race is 500km long how can a pilot that only drove half the distance get points for his performance? Or how can he finish in front of other pilots that drove the whole 500km?

^^^This.

[pettersolberg29]

For a moment ignore the public/TV factor and think about WRC only as a sport. If one race is 500km long how can a pilot that only drove half the distance get points for his performance? Or how can he finish in front of other pilots that drove the whole 500km?

Agree 100%, however this view is far too sensible for the people who make the big decisions as public and TV come first.

[tfp]

Agree 100%, however this view is far too sensible for the people who make the big decisions as public and TV come first.

Agree, the manufacturers need exposure, which is limited at the best of times, not least when the car is upside down in a big tree!

The sponsers need the cars livery to be seen, and I think until the WRC has a load more TV coverage and another 4 or 5 manufacturers enter then Rally2 has more positives than negatives. I have changed my tune :p

[Plan9]

I don't agree with Rally2. It looks like a milk sop to backers and really does not improve the spectacle at all. Is seeing you favorite drivers flail about really that important?

[AndyRAC]

If you must have Rally2, then you can't finish ahead of somebody who has done the whole event!! To finish 1st, first you must finish....once you have retired, then you're behind everybody.....and will stop the tactic of retiring and taking the 5min per stage penalty.

[Barreis]

It should be count how many times did Loeb use super rally/rally2?!

[pettersolberg29]

How about Rally 2 happens, however you rank the people doing Rally 2 in order after everyone else in their category? Therefore if only 4 or 5 WRC cars finish then those doing Rally 2 will then get 6th place and below even if they catch them up with the 5 min penalties?

[Lousada]

Agree, the manufacturers need exposure, which is limited at the best of times, not least when the car is upside down in a big tree!

The sponsers need the cars livery to be seen, and I think until the WRC has a load more TV coverage and another 4 or 5 manufacturers enter then Rally2 has more positives than negatives. I have changed my tune :p

And the S2000 and Group N drivers do not need exposure? You know the WRC is more than 5 cars.

[Mirek]

And the S2000 and Group N drivers do not need exposure? You know the WRC is more than 5 cars.

True. With manufacturer teams restarting again and again real privateers have much less chance to make some good result or to be shown in the media. But it's privateers who make large majority of starters and without whom most of the events could not be organized at all.

[rallyfiend]

True. With manufacturer teams restarting again and again real privateers have much less chance to make some good result or to be shown in the media. But it's privateers who make large majority of starters and without whom most of the events could not be organized at all.

Yes, and how many privateers would want to enter if they know they could make a stupid mistake and blow it on the first stage. Game over. It's a great way to completely alienate sponsors from the sport. What are you selling them?

[Mirek]

In 99% of sports a stupid mistake means game over and many of them are much healthier than WRC.

But lets stay in rallying. Have IRC events less entries than WRC? No. Do they have superally? In 90% of events not. Do ERC events have less entries than WRC events? No. Do they have superally? No. How many national championships have super rally?

[janvanvurpa]

In 99% of sports a stupid mistake means game over and many of them are much healthier than WRC.

But lets stay in rallying. Have IRC events less entries than WRC? No. Do they have superally? In 90% of events not. Do ERC events have less entries than WRC events? No. Do they have superally? No. How many national championships have super rally?


But I bet you that few of those sports require equipment that costs millions and must be used, and is available from only a couple of sources..

[Franky]

But I bet you that few of those sports require equipment that costs millions and must be used, and is available from only a couple of sources..

Formula 1, you can't find more commercialized and expensive sport, in my opinion.

And if you bin it on the first lap ...

[janvanvurpa]

Formula 1, you can't find more commercialized and expensive sport, in my opinion.

And if you bin it on the first lap ...

Well I don't consider F1 to have anything to do with sport...it is basically an engineering showplace completely divorced from any world I will ever be in..
And since the inception of the "World rally Car" subset of Group A, so has rally become a mere spectacle with nothing whatsoever to do with the mocking nameplates on the car.

[tfp]

And the S2000 and Group N drivers do not need exposure? You know the WRC is more than 5 cars.

Of course!

[tolis]

:D

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/d3_jm_002.jpg

[bluuford]

Tänak revealed in his blog that they had to slow down a little on the last km-s of the long stage because cows were sleeping on the road and they were first car on the road to wake them up :-) Everything wet well for them and for the cows. So, probably too much time between 0 car and the first car :-)

[dimviii]

:D

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/d3_jm_002.jpg

this must be Jam and tfp :D

[tfp]

Haha :D It wasnt me, but I'm sure I have a Subaru hat like that one somewhere ;)

[Plan9]

Yes, and how many privateers would want to enter if they know they could make a stupid mistake and blow it on the first stage. Game over. It's a great way to completely alienate sponsors from the sport. What are you selling them? I agree that sponsors could be alineated by lack of Rally2. But this could also be a problem with the series as entrants are not able to attract as good sponsors as once the could (think Cigarette and Alcohol companies). I think it should be beholden on anyone who enters into ventures like the WRC (in any spec car) to have sponsors that are willing to go the distance. If sponsors are only concerned about being seen in the event they should think about putting their logos on a roadside hoarding or trying another sport.

[Barreis]

They had to invent rally2/super rally and it will exist at least until Loeb's retirement. :D

[dimviii]

some nice photos!
eWRC.cz - Fotogalerie Rally Argentina 2012 (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=3491&fotograf=144)

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/dsc_7057.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/dsc_5839.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/dsc_6813.jpg