WRC Rally Argentina 2012

[pettersolberg29]

Seem to have jinxed Mikkelsen in that last stage - lost almost 30s from the middle of the stage to the end.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

They would most likely end with mine-proof military vehicles than...

Can you tell what military vehicle is that? When battle tanks can´t make it REAL mines, you have to know something special...

[Sulland]

They would most likely end with mine-proof military vehicles than...

No Mirek that is my business, so I dont think Ford need to make a Leopard III, but a bit stronger than today would make a hell of a difference. They can not afford all these nonfinish rallies ! ;)

[Kielder]

Tweet from @citroenracing
"SS5 - Neuville: 'We rolled after 26km but we managed to continue. We had no brakes and we stopped again. Lot of things broken, Rally2 likely'".

[BleAivano]

Can you tell what military vehicle is that? When battle tanks can´t make it REAL mines, you have to know something special...

Citroen Xsara WRC.

[Donalduck]

Mikkelsen broke front damper in stage!

[Viking]

Mikkelsen "broken right, front damper"

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Citroen Xsara WRC.

Really?

http://www.xtdev.com/auto/gallery/news/030809_rallyFinland_ColinMcRae_DerekRinger_Citroen Xsara_crash.jpg

[BleAivano]

Really?

http://www.xtdev.com/auto/gallery/news/030809_rallyFinland_ColinMcRae_DerekRinger_Citroen Xsara_crash.jpg

yeah really!

[N.O.T]

the rally is still long but now nothing can be decided by driving anymore....

The battle between Ogier and Mikkelsen is going to be interesting... What problems did ogier have on ss4 ?

Neuville is still not in the big league....he cannot control the pace of a WRC car as it seems yet....

[Kielder]

The battle between Ogier and Mikkelsen is going to be interesting... What problems did ogier have on ss4 ?


A puncture.

[Xsara Fan]

Photogallery from ALMrally.ru (http://www.almrally.ru/novosti-wrc/info/7873/)

Novikov`s car after retirement. Photo by Evgeny Novikov (http://www.almrally.ru/imageModul/novikov-photo/29451/29466.jpg)

[A FONDO]

Photogallery from ALMrally.ru (http://www.almrally.ru/novosti-wrc/info/7873/)

Novikov`s car after retirement. Photo by Evgeny Novikov (http://www.almrally.ru/imageModul/novikov-photo/29451/29466.jpg)

Thanks for sharing. Please post here every gallery update because the directory structure of this site is awful and I dont want to struggle with it anymore, althought the pictures are usually nice.

[N.O.T]

the last stage is going to be run or cancelled ?

[Jajá]

the last stage is going to be run or cancelled ? No cancellations so far...

[N.O.T]

No cancellations so far...

nice...will the delay be applied to the last stage as well ?

[Jajá]

nice...will the delay be applied to the last stage as well ?

I believe so... I would expect Seb to get into the stage by 18h25 local time (must be 23h25 CET?)

[rallye-vid]

Yes, one hour delay

[rallyfiend]

World Rally Championship - Video - Browse All - Argentina 2012: Friday Morning Stages (http://www.wrc.com/video/browse-all/video-argentina-2012-friday-morning-stages/?vid=2511)

[BleAivano]

I believe so... I would expect Seb to get into the stage by 18h25 local time (must be 23h25 CET?)

yeah its a 5 hour difference between Argentina and Central European Summer time, (CEST, cet is normal winter time).

[Xsara Fan]

Evgeny Novikov about his troubles: "At SS2 I thought that we have a puncture. But at the finish of the stage we were told that we have a damaged right-rear wheel. It was very strange - we had no punches. Bodywork was not damaged at all. After the finish and refuelling we decided to jack up car to analyze situation. But when we raised car suspension arm simply fell on the ground! It seems to me that mechanics forgot to tighten the bolt of the suspension arm. We couldn`t repair this problem but decided to start SS3. We understood that most likely we will not finish the stage. After some kilometeres the wheel without suspension arm came off completely. We were forced to stop..."

[Viking]

ss6 is under way

[Kielder]

Evgeny Novikov about his troubles: "At SS2 I thought that we have a puncture. But at the finish of the stage we were told that we have a damaged right-rear wheel. It was very strange - we had no punches. Bodywork was not damaged at all. After the finish and refuelling we decided to jack up car to analyze situation. But when we raised car suspension arm simply fell on the ground! It seems to me that mechanics forgot to tighten the bolt of the suspension arm. We couldn`t repair this problem but decided to start SS3. We understood that most likely we will not finish the stage. After some kilometeres the wheel without suspension arm came off completely. We were forced to stop..."

:eek:
I don't know if it's worst this or what happened in Mexico. Sorry for him.

[Kielder]

Hirvo is the only who follows Loeb's pace in this stage.

[A FONDO]

Sordo on hard tyres, Ostberg too.

[Co-driven]

World Rally Championship - Video - Browse All - Argentina 2012: Friday Morning Stages (http://www.wrc.com/video/browse-all/video-argentina-2012-friday-morning-stages/?vid=2511)

I've just watched the video and saw an image where Petter Solberg is driving without hit gloves. Wasn't the use of gloves mandatory?

If I remember correctly, in 2007 Juan Pablo Raies was disqualified from Rally Sweden because he stopped to change a tyre and lost one of his gloves. Rules changed or the image in the video is from shakedown?

[rallyfiend]

I've just watched the video and saw an image where Petter Solberg is driving without hit gloves. Wasn't the use of gloves mandatory?

If I remember correctly, in 2007 Juan Pablo Raies was disqualified from Rally Sweden because he stopped to change a tyre and lost one of his gloves. Rules changed or the image in the video is from shakedown?

Well spotted!

You could probably get yourself a free DS3 from Citroen with those sorts of eyes!

[Kielder]

17 retirements 'til now... Nowadays, with all the pain of my heart, rallyes endurance are nonsense.
BTW, three of the five Ford which lead the rally yesterday, are out.

[EightGear]

Mikkelsen is doing great, but shouldn't we have somewhat expected that? He has loads of experience and has been driving in that Fabia for a few years now. And off course we know what he can do.

It's not the first time Ogier gets beaten, Abbring was faster a few times in Mexico (also with even starting positions) in only his third rally ever in a 4wd car.

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen again faster at split 2

[dimviii]

After Argentina, Ostberg maybe the Ford driver with best points.lol

[tolis]

After Argentina, Ostberg maybe the Ford driver with best points.lol
Don't forget also that Ostberg missed Monte Carlo! :D

[dimviii]

Don't forget also that Ostberg missed Monte Carlo! :D

i had forget it.....its even worse..

[N.O.T]

the only interesting battle is now the Ogier - Mikkelsen one...

1st place is secured.

[Viking]

Almost 300 km to go, more things will happen...

[N.O.T]

Almost 300 km to go, more things will happen...

of course but nothing can be decided by driving now...

[pettersolberg29]

What's the highest Petter can aim for? Prokop in 6th is a reasonable target, and even Al-Attiyah isn't too far away from that. Maybe Petter will manage to escape with a top 5 result from this rally?

[Plan9]

After this effort Malcolm must surely be getting the knife ready.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

What's the highest Petter can aim for? Prokop in 6th is a reasonable target, and even Al-Attiyah isn't too far away from that. Maybe Petter will manage to escape with a top 5 result from this rally?

I"m hoping that a clean ride and a few mistakes ahead of him will garner a top six finish, which all said and done would be great.

[6789]

Had a feeling that something would happen to Petter when I woke up this morning, such a shame for Ford so far this year

[skarderud]

the video of petters "off", it doesen't seems he hit something that will explain the broken steering. when he goes off, the steering is already ****'d. it doesen't look'd that he hit the bank hard or i didn't see any stone or something in the road? maybe bad incar footage? ford have an issue with the arms around theire cars, it strange how easy the wheels get loose on the ford, compared to the citroen's. it can't only be the driver's in my opinion.

[skarderud]

some idiot throwed a stone in mikkelsens windscreen at the end of the last stage, what is the point of that? is it some kind of demonstration, or a frenchman?

[tmx]

Sure, blame the french.

[skarderud]

it was a joke :)

[AndyRAC]

How long can you complain about bad luck? When it keeps happening it isn't bad luck, there's a reason for it. Too aggressive driving style, etc which results in more punctures, wheels off, etc

[MikeD]

I've just watched the video and saw an image where Petter Solberg is driving without hit gloves. Wasn't the use of gloves mandatory?

If I remember correctly, in 2007 Juan Pablo Raies was disqualified from Rally Sweden because he stopped to change a tyre and lost one of his gloves. Rules changed or the image in the video is from shakedown?

Well potted. Also Ricardo Triviño lost his 8th place and 1 points at rally Mexico in a Peugeout 206 WRC a couple of years ago for having either wrong gloves or driving without them.

[MJW]

Well potted. Also Ricardo Triviño lost his 8th place and 1 points at rally Mexico in a Peugeout 206 WRC a couple of years ago for having either wrong gloves or driving without them.
Have you got a link to this video of Petter driving without gloves? Or have Ford managed to get it removed?

[skarderud]

Ford team director Malcolm Wilson said: "We've just thrown it away again. It's very frustrating."
yes, malcom. YOU throwed it away, the entire m-sport throwed it away. you build to weak parts for your cars.

[skarderud]

How long can you complain about bad luck? When it keeps happening it isn't bad luck, there's a reason for it. Too aggressive driving style, etc which results in more punctures, wheels off, etc

well, this time i think its bad luck, it was a stone i the rut, in the line earlier, lots of KM's later it part just broke after a jump. thats bad luck. portugal's mistake wasn't, that was to high speed.

bit it's weird that the ford's always lost's wheels, it cant only be the drivers eighter?

[A FONDO]

yes, malcom. YOU throwed it away, the entire m-sport throwed it away. you build to weak parts for your cars.
...and sign weak drivers because of the sponsors

[dimviii]

Neuvilles roll included
Citroën WRC 2012 - Rally Argentina - Friday - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBXVqbHIG0&feature=player_embedded)

[dimviii]

Dani Sordo says final Friday stage of Rally Argentina should have been cancelled not run in darkness - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99195)

[dimviii]

Solberg and Neuvilles crash
WRC 2012 Argentina Solberg and Neuville crash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4caif43oE&feature=player_embedded)

[skarderud]

...and sign weak drivers because of the sponsors

money talks, expecially at m-sport. but ford pushed the petter deal to malcom, he wanna sign ott instead of petter. for the money. then the manuchamp been wide open by now....
petter is one of the best avalible, and seen of a marketing point of wiew the best. sordo has come in as a real good candidate also now. latvala is fast, but....

[bretddog]

Wow... Again a rock! Smack in the line at the exit of the turn. This is starting to be hard to believe.. It's a bad quality footage, but should be clear enough.
And while one can't expect much of a spectator, this one was 10m away, and must surely have seen it.


http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/11719241731-orig.png

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1568/screenshot2012042811373.png

WRC 2012 Argentina Solberg and Neuville crash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xx4caif43oE)

[dimviii]

Loeb spins
2012 WRC Rally Argentina SS3 Sebastien Loeb spins twice - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwT74f6V4CQ&feature=player_embedded)

[Langdale Forest]

When does the first stage start today (England time)?

[dimviii]

Also at Guerras car was thrown a stone
World Rally Championship - News - Friday PWRC wrap: Fuchs heads close battle (http://www.wrc.com/news/friday-pwrc-wrap-fuchs-heads-close-battle/?fid=16586)

[BleAivano]

When does the first stage start today (England time)?

12.30 Uk time. (08.30 local time).

World Rally Championship - Results - Philips Rally Argentina (http://www.wrc.com/results/2012/philips-rally-argentina/itinerary/)
Time Zone Converter - Time & Time Zone Conversion (http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc)

[Mauri A]

When does the first stage start today (England time)?

Every day the same question! Try to get rally´s timetable and a watch and call Greenwich about time zones.

[MikeD]

Have you got a link to this video of Petter driving without gloves? Or have Ford managed to get it removed?

It's here on the WRC.com. Do you know if it's legal or not?

World Rally Championship - Video - Browse All - Argentina 2012: Friday Morning Stages (http://www.wrc.com/video/browse-all/video-argentina-2012-friday-morning-stages/?vid=2511)

[MikeD]

some idiot throwed a stone in mikkelsens windscreen at the end of the last stage, what is the point of that? is it some kind of demonstration, or a frenchman?

It appears to be a problem especially at Rally Mexico, Argentina and GB. I always fear that it's a thing like that that will decide a championship. But it's a very tricky thing to get on top of. There are idiots everywhere and there seem to be an increasing amount of them these days....

[Fly_Half]

It appears to be a problem especially at....GB.

Evidence for this?

[Allyc85]

I have never heard of rocks being thrown at rally GB!

[MikeD]

Evidence for this?

I just remember stones being thrown at Loebs car a couple of years ago when he was fighting with Hirvonen for the championship (2009 I think).

[MikeD]

money talks, expecially at m-sport. but ford pushed the petter deal to malcom, he wanna sign ott instead of petter. for the money. then the manuchamp been wide open by now....
petter is one of the best avalible, and seen of a marketing point of wiew the best. sordo has come in as a real good candidate also now. latvala is fast, but....

I agree. I never understood why Citroën didn't sign PSolberg instead of Hirvonen. It's not that Hirvonen isn't delivering the good results, but PSolberg was equally consistent in his private Citroëns and he is a way better marketing tool.

[N.O.T]

I agree. I never understood why Citroën didn't sign PSolberg instead of Hirvonen. It's not that Hirvonen isn't delivering the good results, but PSolberg was equally consistent in his private Citroëns and he is a way better marketing tool.


take a look at the championship points in the last few years and you will understand why they signed Hirvonen.

[Francis44]

Plus I think a Loeb-Solberg duo would not work at all marketing wise, it just wasn't going to feel right.

[Viking]

I have to say my interest for this rally went down south at the same time as Petter broke his steering arm...
But Ogier v Mikkelsen will still keep me in front of the computer. :)

[MikeD]

take a look at the championship points in the last few years and you will understand why they signed Hirvonen.

...and look at the points now. They are both the teams second choice. PSolberg is on 62 points. Hirvonen on 50 points.

And remind me again. Which of the two has a championship to his name? ;)

[dimviii]

in 6 minutes we will get live.Lets see Sordos strategy.

[MikeD]

Plus I think a Loeb-Solberg duo would not work at all marketing wise, it just wasn't going to feel right.

It would feel very right. I still can't see what Citroën gets marketing wise from Hirvonen. I honestly doubt he has many fans outside his native country.

[MikeD]

in 6 minutes we will get live.Lets see Sordos strategy.

It's in 1 hour an 6 min.

[6789]

A tweet said there will be live streaming here watch motors tv channels live streaming online from uk (http://www.onlinetvjunction.com/view/7844/watch-motors-tv-channels-live-streaming-online-from-uk.html) Might have meant the Day 1 update

[dimviii]

...and look at the points now. They are both the teams second choice. PSolberg is on 62 points. Hirvonen on 50 points.

And remind me again. Which of the two has a championship to his name? ;)

dont forget Mikkos win disqualified,and that plenty of Petters points are with superrally.Numbers are not telling the truth always

[dimviii]

It's in 1 hour an 6 min.

are you sure? i checked a website about times differences and was -5 hours from Argentina to Greece.

[Kielder]

Today's start list (2 minute intervals): Tänak, Novikov, Nobre, Salazar, Oliveira, Araújo, Solberg, Neuville, Prokop, Al-Attiyah, Østberg, Sordo, Hirvonen, Loeb.
As we know, eight WRC drivers start under Rally2 :rolleyes: . Without this "trick", we might have only six WRC cars today...

Then start (1 minute intervals) Mikkelsen, Ogier, Fuchs, Kosciuszko, Guerra, Ligato, Gorban, ...

[tolis]

Day 1 Highlights - Part 1: WRC 2012 Argentina - Day1 - part 1/2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsbqbrcJtwo)
Day 1 Highlights - Part 2: WRC 2012 Argentina - Day1 - part 2/2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRWYY1puEQ)

@dim: You have to wait 1 more hour... I am sorry! :D

[MikeD]

are you sure? i checked a website about times differences and was -5 hours from Argentina to Greece.

Yes, because you have to add 1 hour because Europe is in summer-time

[Francis44]

It would feel very right. I still can't see what Citroën gets marketing wise from Hirvonen. I honestly doubt he has many fans outside his native country.

Citroen dosen't need a character like Solberg, they have Loeb and all they needed was a team supporter for him. Citroen needs someone who is always able to collect the points.

[dimviii]

Yes, because you have to add 1 hour because Europe is in summer-time

aha! thanks Mike

[EightGear]

Day 1 Highlights - Part 1: WRC 2012 Argentina - Day1 - part 1/2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsbqbrcJtwo)
Day 1 Highlights - Part 2: WRC 2012 Argentina - Day1 - part 2/2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRWYY1puEQ)

@dim: You have to wait 1 more hour... I am sorry! :D

Thanks for sharing.

Massive failure though: there is no commentary!?

[MikeD]

Citroen dosen't need a character like Solberg, they have Loeb and all they needed was a team supporter for him. Citroen needs someone who is always able to collect the points.

Loeb is a mchine and that appeals to fans like me who focus'es only on winning rallies and titles. PSolberg is great with fans and therefor a very strong marketing tool. He always has many fans everywhere and is a very likeable person. Hirvonen is neither even though he is good enough in securing the nessecary points for the manu championship.

[N.O.T]

...and look at the points now. They are both the teams second choice. PSolberg is on 62 points. Hirvonen on 50 points.

And remind me again. Which of the two has a championship to his name? ;)

A championship 9 years ago doesn't really count when it comes to an important decision...the only thing that Solberg has over Hirvonen is marketing value...

but Citroen are a serious team and care for more important things than adults acting like 12 year old girls in their favourite pop artists show...

Solberg is good enough to be considered a challenger for podiums but that is that...

[Viking]

are you sure? i checked a website about times differences and was -5 hours from Argentina to Greece.

I use this Current local time in Argentina (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=485)

It also gives some kind of weather forecast.. but not Bluuford quality :)

[MikeD]

A championship 9 years ago doesn't really count when it comes to an important decision...the only thing that Solberg has over Hirvonen is marketing value...

And the only reason why Citroën is in WRC is for the marketing value hoping it will increase the amount of sold cars. And having won a championship 9 years ago still counts for a hell of lot more than having only being close to winning it.


but Citroen are a serious team and care for more important things than adults acting like 12 year old girls in their favourite pop artists show......

Depends on the eyes watching...


Solberg is good enough to be considered a challenger for podiums but that is that...

Same goes for Hirvonen

[rallye-vid]

Mikko crashes less than Petter. That's the point

[A FONDO]

Thanks for sharing.

Massive failure though: there is no commentary!?

Massive enjoyment though! Best reveiew I've seen this year!

[ridder]

Hirvonen is better for Citroen, quiet, behind Loeb, mostly consistent (bare 2010),


I feel like putting €100 on 100% driver failure

So I watched the video... and would like your 100 euro. You don't mind or? :)

[Viking]

Petter

"I was driving in the ruts when the sump guard under the car touched some exposed bedrock and the impact bent the left steering arm, Petter explained. – I continued at normal pace for another 10km until the arm snapped in mid-air at a sixth gear crest about 6km from the finish. The car went off the road when it landed and the front right hit a rock.

Solberg and Patterson replaced the broken arm with a spare unit carried in the car. However, when they restarted they discovered the right steering arm broke in the second impact and they had to stop."

[MikeD]

So I watched the video... and would like your 100 euro. You don't mind or? :)

I watched the video aswell. You are not getting my €100. It was a driver error.

[N.O.T]

And the only reason why Citroën is in WRC is for the marketing value hoping it will increase the amount of sold cars. And having won a championship 9 years ago still counts for a hell of lot more than having only being close to winning it.



Depends on the eyes watching...



Same goes for Hirvonen

the difference is the marketing value of solberg only counts among rally fans... Citroen wants to sell cars to everyone and the 9 titles in whatever sport have a far larger marketing value than just a person for the uninitiated.

for the rest you are right but results show Hirvonen is better than Solberg at achieving that.

[EightGear]

Massive enjoyment though! Best reveiew I've seen this year!

For us rally-diehards who already know what has happened it is ok, but not for Joe average tuning in on Motors TV and wanting to know what happened...

[MikeD]

Mikko crashes less than Petter. That's the point

again...

PSolberg points this year: 62
Hirvonen points this year: 50

..and if you look at the stock of PSA they for sure should have more focus on their marketing tools. It's not looking good.

Peugeot, Kurs, Nøgletal med mere (http://www.euroinvestor.dk/boerser/euronext-paris/peugeot/344366)

[N.O.T]

again...

PSolberg points this year: 62
Hirvonen points this year: 50



please i consider you a serious person... the championship has more than 5 rounds...

[6789]

Sure has been a dog of a stock over the last 12 months!

[ridder]

I watched the video aswell. You are not getting my €100. It was a driver error.

Care to explain how it was 100% driver error? I fail to see it, but the again I don't drive rallycars on gravel at 100 kph+.

He goes exactly on the line and there is a stone in it at the second half of the corner which does not seem to be visible from before the corner. Only thing one can argue about is whether he could have seen it sometime after he turned in and corrected to avoid it.
After the hit the car goes straight into the opposite side.

Given this information I'd rate it as about 50% bad luck, and rest divided between driver (could have corrected?) and weak parts (have no idea how strong the impact was).
As to the possible correction... Latvala tried to correct in very similar situation in Portugal and ended off the road.

EDIT: VIking's post (with Solbergs explanation), doesn't seem to help. Does that video show the first off or the second one? Seems more like the first one. Anyway from that explanation weak parts seem even more likely... i.e. one arm brakes so they change it only to find out that the second one broke as well.

[dimviii]

did the video shows when Petter hit the stone?

[ridder]

It's linked on page 28 here, the quality is rather low, but there's some dark area (at 7-8 secs in), might be stone or just a deep rut so that the road hits the sumpguard as he said. Anyway you can clearly see how the steering moves and car goes straight after that.

[MikeD]

Sure has been a dog of a stock over the last 12 months!

Yes it has lost 2/3 of its value. That's pretty serious and it's clearly the car company that's suffering the most during this crisis. Daimer/Mercedes, Porsche, Renault and FIAT are also doing really bad whereas the VW/VAG group is performing on average market level and whereas BMW is the winner with massive success in selling cars especially in Emerging Markets.

[N.O.T]

It's linked on page 28 here, the quality is rather low, but there's some dark area (at 7-8 secs in), might be stone or just a deep rut so that the road hits the sumpguard as he said. Anyway you can clearly see how the steering moves and car goes straight after that.

please refer to post number (on the top right of every post) not the page because every user has different number of posts showing per page (e.g i have only 15 pages in total for the thread)

[MikeD]

please i consider you a serious person... the championship has more than 5 rounds...

;) Equalmente. I know the championship is more than 5 rounds but to be honest then Ford is such a poor competitor and it's so bloody easy to beat them year in and year out that I would focus on having a second driver in the team that has great marketing value and at the same time is good enough to pick up the Manu points needed to clinch both titles.

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this one.


please refer to post number (on the top right of every post) not the page because every user has different number of posts showing per page (e.g i have only 15 pages in total for the thread)

If you only have 15 pages you must have a lot of people on your ignorelist :D

[dimviii]

It's linked on page 28 here, the quality is rather low, but there's some dark area (at 7-8 secs in), might be stone or just a deep rut so that the road hits the sumpguard as he said. Anyway you can clearly see how the steering moves and car goes straight after that.

if this is the video you are reffering it doesn t show the time when Petter had the impact,but the time when the arm broke.The impact was 10km before

WRC 2012 Argentina Solberg and Neuville crash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4caif43oE&feature=player_embedded)

[ridder]

That's the video, but there is no crest or anything like that (as he says about the moment when it broke) and when you see them fixing the car it's on completely different spot on the right side of the road (as he says about the second impact).

So imo the first part shows the first moment = cause of problems. Anyway if it does not then it must must have been so uneventful that they didn't even put it in the TV footage?

Main point was that on none of the footage can you see 100% driver error, hence I want the 100 euro from MIkeD who is and was betting on that right as it happened.

[satnav]

It's here on the WRC.com. Do you know if it's legal or not?

World Rally Championship - Video - Browse All - Argentina 2012: Friday Morning Stages (http://www.wrc.com/video/browse-all/video-argentina-2012-friday-morning-stages/?vid=2511)

Althought it dosn't really matter now, according to the 2012 Sporting Regulations Gloves are required;

COMPETITOR SAFETY
40.1 EQUIPMENTOF THE CREWS Whenevera car is in motion on a special stage, the crew must wear homologated crashhelmets, all required safety clothing and equipment in compliance with AppendixL Chapter III - Drivers’ Equipment as intended by the equipment manufacturerand have their safety belts fastened. Any infringement will be penalised by theclerk of the course who may also refer the matter to the Stewards.

And Appendix L Chapter 3 is as follows ;

.2. Flame-resistant clothingIncircuit events, hill-climbs, special stages of rallies and selective sectionsof cross-country events entered on the International Sporting Calendar, alldrivers and co-drivers must wear overalls as well as gloves (optional forco-drivers), long underwear, a balaclava, socks and shoes homologated to theFIA 8856-2000 standard (Technical List N°27).

[N.O.T]

;) Equalmente. I know the championship is more than 5 rounds but to be honest then Ford is such a poor competitor and it's so bloody easy to beat them year in and year out that I would focus on having a second driver in the team that has great marketing value and at the same time is good enough to pick up the Manu points needed to clinch both titles.

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this one.



If you only have 15 pages you must have a lot of people on your ignorelist :D

i have none !!! ...none is as obnoxious as me to put him there... :D

i just have 40 posts per page to appear.

About Solberg vs Hirvonen... sure the driver lineup when you have Loeb in you ranks doesn't really count when it comes to manufacturer title...but why make your life harder when you can make it a lot easier ??

[dimviii]

That's the video, but there is no crest or anything like that (as he says about the moment when it broke) and when you see them fixing the car it's on completely different spot on the right side of the road (as he says about the second impact).

So imo the first part shows the first moment = cause of problems. Anyway if it does not then it must must have been so uneventful that they didn't even put it in the TV footage?

definetely its not the time of impact.Impact was 10km before.Video shows the time when steering arm broked.25 minutes coverage for day1 and didn t show the impact.Big fail

[rallye-vid]

SS7 running

[EightGear]

Tanak in trouble, AGAIN?

[rallye-vid]

Maybe malcolm is testing something in his car.. e.g. stronger steering arms ;)

[N.O.T]

probably a spin on the 1st section....

[N.O.T]

problems for novikov...

[N.O.T]

crazy results so far....Novikov 21 seconds off the pace then just 7 at the end....

[CatraBiNAS]

all have problems on split 1?

[blissard]

Petter also lost some time on first split.

[N.O.T]

how can Solberg be just -1.1 from tanak on split 1 when nobre was 11 ??

[EightGear]

Huge differences in the splits between all splitpoints. Now Neuville loses time to Tanak again.

[Francis44]

Quite strange actually, are they all following the same route?!

[Langdale Forest]

how can Solberg be just -1.1 from tanak on split 1 when nobre was 11 ??

Prehaps Nobre was fed up of you referring to him as a 'village driver'.

[eib1]

crazy splits :)

[N.O.T]

i think there is something wrong with the timing....

[N.O.T]

Sordo also slow on split 1 ??

BAH...the argentinians are playing again....

[EightGear]

Tanak wins a lot of time between split 3 and 4. Something must be wrong I think.

[N.O.T]

the timing system is wrong... the differences between splits cannot be explained....

[focus206]

For sure the splits are wrong... but the stage times seems to be correct at least.

[rallyfiend]

the timing system is wrong... the differences between splits cannot be explained....

It could be there's a bit of road there that's getting really chopped up

[Mauri A]

Sordo also slow on split 1 ??

BAH...the argentinians are playing again....

As far as I know the timing system is not argentinian.

[N.O.T]

It could be there's a bit of road there that's getting really chopped up

no...the times are inconsistent throughout the stage...

[N.O.T]

As far as I know the timing system is not argentinian.

when you have argentinian rally organisers handling it ...it becomes.

[N.O.T]

Loeb flies like a boss....

[Francis44]

Loeb and Hirvonnen flying away again.

[Gard]

They have started to correct the times

[N.O.T]

Ogier woke up...

[N.O.T]

Loeb wins the stage...

[dimviii]

where can we read driver comments after stages?

[DonJippo]

when you have argentinian rally organisers handling it ...it becomes.

AFAIK WRC timing is not handled by event organisers.

[blissard]

Loeb and Hirvonnen flying away again.

Not really? Loeb 1.5 sec faster than Solberg, Hirvonen slower.

[EightGear]

Ogier found something to cry about again... Dust this time.

[N.O.T]

No mikkelsen at the end of the stage :(

[Francis44]

Not really? Loeb 1.5 sec faster than Solberg, Hirvonen slower.

From Sordo I mean.


Ogier found something to cry about again... Dust this time.

Mikkelsen was crying about lack of confidence again, they all cry sometimes, get used to it.

[A FONDO]

where can we read driver comments after stages?

where you posted it yesterday
Live text Rally Argentina | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/live-text-rally-argentina/)

[sete]

Ogier reach same time as Prokop 13:06:00

[blissard]

Where is Mikkelsen?

[N.O.T]

where can we read driver comments after stages?

no Vsledky Rallye: Mistrovstv svta (http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/) .... no party :(

[EightGear]

Mikkelsen is in just no time yet.

[N.O.T]

Where is Mikkelsen?

out :(

[Francis44]

out :(

Relax Mikkelsen was in talked to WRR.

[N.O.T]

Mikkelsen is in just no time yet.

where you see that ?

[sete]

no Vsledky Rallye: Mistrovstv svta (http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/) .... no party :(

you can read it here
eWRC-results.com - results Rally Argentina 2012 (http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=3491&Rally-Argentina-2012)

[EightGear]

where you see that ?

As Francis44 said, he talked to WRR.

[dimviii]

where you posted it yesterday
Live text Rally Argentina | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/live-text-rally-argentina/)

thanks.Pitty for Mikkelsen,what happened?


edit ok Mikkelsen is clear.

[N.O.T]

MIkelsen 5.2 slower than Ogier.

[N.O.T]

mikkelsen is ok... his time was not recorded on time....

[Viking]

No mikkelsen at the end of the stage :(

Timing problem, +5,2 to Ogier, different tyre choise methinks...

[eib1]

Nobre 4th quickest between splits 2 and 3? :D

[N.O.T]

Next stage is on....

[dimviii]

stage 8 live

[dimviii]

111.5km/h average for Tanak at this stage

[Langdale Forest]

Oliveria is yet another Brazillian village driver.

[N.O.T]

Oliveria is yet another Brazillian village driver.

really ?? and it just took you 2 years to realise that.... nice.

[N.O.T]

Seems that the Ford team also is being managed by the citroen bosses...they do not allow Sordo to be faster than Loeb....

[JAM]

Seems that the Ford team also is being managed by the citroen bosses...they do not allow Sordo to be faster than Loeb....

Sordo is being slower comparing to what i expected from him in Argentina. And it has nothing to do with team orders :D

[6789]

No splits for after Mikko

Edit - they just came through and he is setting a good pace

[dimviii]

Sordo is being slower comparing to what i expected from him in Argentina. And it has nothing to do with team orders :D

but when in Citroen was slower were team orders.
Loeb has created plenty of damage,NOT is right.

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen fights back :)

[N.O.T]

Ogier faster again at the first few spits... it is going to be a good battle. Lets ope they fight with no problems.

[dimviii]

Petter had a spin at this stage.

114km/h average!

[Kielder]

Seems that the Ford team also is being managed by the citroen bosses...they do not allow Sordo to be faster than Loeb....

Ford allows Sordo to go as fast as possible, but ending third. Going faster, trying to catch Loeb, means taking too risks and increasing the possibility of an accident. Many drivers have crashed trying that, that's why he's won his championships.

[JAM]

Loeb has created plenty of damage,NOT is right.

The first damage is on WRC itself, Like Schumacher made in F1. When Schumacher pull out of F1 the races started beiung interesting again.

And when Schumacher returned, his secret was revealed. Now is one like the others.

[MikeD]

OMG they have Sloson in the studio. Why? He knows **** about driving fast at a rally.

[dimviii]

The first damage is on WRC itself, Like Schumacher made in F1. When Schumacher pull out of F1 the races started beiung interesting again.

And when Schumacher returned, his secret was revealed. Now is one like the others.

plenty of damage at spectators i mean.

[MikeD]

The first damage is on WRC itself, Like Schumacher made in F1. When Schumacher pull out of F1 the races started beiung interesting again.

F1 was great under Schumi ... beating the **** out of McCheat every round.


And when Schumacher returned, his secret was revealed. Now is one like the others.

...yes at the age of 43 he is still as good as the others in their start 20'ies.

[N.O.T]

F1 Ladyboys are not allowed in Rally talk...please...only alpha wolf males allowed in this thread.

[Mauri A]

Petter had a spin at this stage.


Yes, he must have lost at least 20 secs because of that spin!

[JAM]

plenty of damage at spectators i mean.

Yes. Or are you forgetting the stages plenty of spectatores in the 90's and beggining of this century.

And you are forgetting other interesting point: Why WRC don't have a promoter? Shouldn't be so dificuilt to find a replacement to NOS if WRC was atractive.

[dimviii]

Yes, he must have lost at least 20 secs because of that spin!
its really strange,but it has reported here
Live text Rally Argentina | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/live-text-rally-argentina/)

[JAM]

F1 was great under Schumi ... beating the **** out of McCheat every round.


The audience numbers at the time didn't agree with you, but ok.

[dimviii]

Yes. Or are you forgetting the stages plenty of spectatores in the 90's and beggining of this century.

And you are forgetting other interesting point: Why WRC don't have a promoter? Shouldn't be so dificuilt to find a replacement to NOS if WRC was atractive.

All that is Loebs fault to? get real please.

[JAM]

Yes, he must have lost at least 20 secs because of that spin!

Couldn't see that 20 secs on the splits

[Langdale Forest]

F1 Ladyboys are not allowed in Rally talk...please...only alpha wolf males allowed in this thread.

Sick dog South American village drivers are not allowed in rally talk, we've had enough of them.

[JAM]

All that is Loebs fault to? get real please.

It not Loeb fault. It's Loeb effect. Loeb is not guilty, it would be soooo stupid to say that Loeb is guilty. This is the efect, nothing more.

You sould stop to see my words as something personal against Loeb. The discussion would run better.

[N.O.T]

12 seconds now the difference between Ogier and Mikkelsen...

[JAM]

12 seconds now the difference between Ogier and Mikkelsen...

It's interesting to see someone called as "ladycup" to be as fast as the guy that was so fast as Loeb :D

[MikeD]

You sould stop to see my words as something personal against Loeb. The discussion would run better.

And you should stop with your nonsense. If you think todays TV F1 ratings are higher than under MS then you don't what you are talking about. It's actually what i do for a living so I have access to those data and you clearly do not.

[N.O.T]

Sick dog South American village drivers are not allowed in rally talk, we've had enough of them.

a south american village rally driver may be a sick dog of nothingness in rally talk but compared to a champion F1 lady boy is still more important

...learn your stuff and put things into the proper context....

[uranium]

If you think todays TV F1 ratings are higher than under MS

Are these thing directly related? Can you prove please?

[RAS007]

You sould stop to see my words as something personal against Loeb. The discussion would run better.

Be careful, you will upset the Loeb Fanclub. They are a very sensitive bunch, you know.

Edit: Uh oh, too late.

[dimviii]

It not Loeb fault. It's Loeb effect. Loeb is not guilty, it would be soooo stupid to say that Loeb is guilty. This is the efect, nothing more.

You sould stop to see my words as something personal against Loeb. The discussion would run better.

its not Loeb effect,its the other drivers effect that can t finish a single stage inside the road.And instead of trying to understant the real situation you blame Loeb, Citroen tactics,cars specially build for him,citroen 2nd drivers that are not allowed to win and plenty other strak trek universe theories

[N.O.T]

ok this thread has too many F1 references here is a pic to bring things back to the proper track

[attachment=1:2gsac259]Sebastien-Loeb-in-his-Cit-001.jpg[/attachment:2gsac259]

now back to rally

[JAM]

Be careful, you will upset the Loeb Fanclub. They are a very sensitive bunch, you know.

I already understood that. But i can handle well with these guys. They are perfect in argumentation, as his boss is driving. :D

[Kielder]

First SS9 split.

[JAM]

And you should stop with your nonsense. If you think todays TV F1 ratings are higher than under MS then you don't what you are talking about. It's actually what i do for a living so I have access to those data and you clearly do not.

I have the data too.

How do you explain the 15% down in 2009? Are you able to do that, or you only know to look at the numbers without a minimum of analitic inteligence? Is the absense of Schumacher, or is the world crisis making effect? Or is the grow outside Europe that can't compensate the leave of european grand prix? Do you know the TV revenue in value$ to the teams? And to FOA?

Whake up. The world in the first parte of 2000's was very different from the late 2000's.

This is not the place to discuss this. Let's talk about Argentina. Sorry mates.

[Kielder]

Sordo's pace is today much more slower than yestarday (not counting last stage). This can't only be explained according to his driving.

[N.O.T]

Loeb attacks...

[Langdale Forest]

N.O.T needs to find a new definition for the south american sick dogs, there stage times today would make Matthew Wilslow look loke a champion.

[dimviii]

N.O.T needs to find a new definition for the south american sick dogs, there stage times today would make Matthew Wilslow look loke a champion.
he has already. scared dogs.

[N.O.T]

N.O.T needs to find a new definition for the south american sick dogs, there stage times today would make Matthew Wilslow look loke a champion.

you are right ...i will have my R&D department work on this

[Kielder]

Mikko's attacking too. He's adapted to the Citroen very well, great consistency, as quite always. We lose again a great fight against Loeb due to his change of team.

[N.O.T]

Mikko faster now 2 splits before the end !!! i wonder if these 2 are on the limit or they have orders to finish 1st from the team...

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen vs Ogier is very tight.Hope to dont have dramas.

[Mauri A]

N.O.T needs to find a new definition for the south american sick dogs, there stage times today would make Matthew Wilslow look loke a champion.
"Sick dog" could also be used for some people who are isolated from the civilized countries in Europe!

[N.O.T]

Loeb 0.3 slower at the end...good fight !!!

[dimviii]

Mikko faster now 2 splits before the end !!! i wonder if these 2 are on the limit or they have orders to finish 1st from the team...

have a feeling that they are not fighting but following splits.

[N.O.T]

"Sick dog" could also be used for some people who are isolated from the civilized countries in Europe!

yes, but then the term will have many meanings and will lose its beauty...

[MikeD]

Really impressive driving by Mikkelsen. I hope he gets a seat at VW alongside Ogier.

[dimviii]

Sebastien Loeb, current rally leader has completed the stage after having hit a big rock, knocking his confidence

Live text Rally Argentina | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/live-text-rally-argentina/)


edit
Nasser Al-Attiyah in the Citroen completes, looks like he has some problems, he looks like he has nearly taken a wheel off. He has hit something really hard and the rear right wheel is nearly off the car

[N.O.T]

have a feeling that they are not fighting but following splits.

for sure they are not on the limit... both are smart... but what matters is that if the winner is already decided within the team or not.

[Mauri A]

yes, but then the term will have many meanings and will lose its beauty...

I just meant English and Finnish people!

[N.O.T]

I just meant English and Finnish people!

they are the civilised ones !!!

[JAM]

Sebastien Loeb, current rally leader has completed the stage after having hit a big rock, knocking his confidence


Peter Solberg is a bad driver because broke an steering arm after a hit a rock. Solbberg makes stupid mistakes.

[JAM]

have a feeling that they are not fighting but following splits.

That's for guys like you that they create these fights.

Form me they are not fighting. They are making a hollywood rally.

Loeb already won the rally. Only a problem in the car can avoid that.

[dimviii]

Peter Solberg is a bad driver because broke an steering arm after a hit a rock. Solbberg makes stupid mistakes.

comparing Petter with Loeb you are going to ridicule yourself.Of course he can hit a rock.But NOT in every stage at last 30 rallies.

[Gard]

The s2000 looses a lot in the end. High speed section?

[JAM]

comparing Petter with Loeb you are going to ridicule yourself.Of course he can hit a rock.But NOT in every stage at last 30 rallies.

UAU! Solberg hit a rock in every stage?? The guy should go to a shot competition, because he is really precise!

[dimviii]

That's for guys like you that they create these fights.

Form me they are not fighting. They are making a hollywood rally.

Loeb already won the rally. Only a problem in the car can avoid that.

How is it possible? Sordo is 1,30 min behind after half rally,and you said that he wasnt allowed to fight Loeb. And Loeb is cruising....Explain you have confuse me.

[dimviii]

The s2000 looses a lot in the end. High speed section?

yes.

[RAS007]

Wow. The Loeb Fanclub is in full effect today.

Is Mikko going to be allowed to fight for the win?

[Langdale Forest]

Peter Solberg is a bad driver because broke an steering arm after a hit a rock. Solbberg makes stupid mistakes.

You only say that because Portugal has no drivers capable of success at WRC level.
Solberg is a good driver, Loeb made a stupid mistake in Portugal, does that make him bad?

[dimviii]

Wow. The Loeb Fanclub is in full effect today.

Is Mikko going to be allowed to fight for the win?

No nobody is allowed to fight him.Ask Jam if you dont believe me.

[JAM]

How is it possible? Sordo is 1,30 min behind after half rally,and you said that he wasnt allowed to fight Loeb. And Loeb is cruising....Explain you have confuse me.

You are really confused, but is not from today, it comes from weeks before.

I was talking about Loeb vs Hirvonen. As usual you misunderstood the things. tssss :confused:

[JAM]

You only say that because Portugal has no drivers capable of success at WRC level.
Solberg is a good driver, Loeb made a stupid mistake in Portugal, does that make him bad?

You're attacking the wrong guy. Some posts before you can read some of the mates being critics about yesterday's Solberg mistake. Not me, because i can't write like them.

My post was to them.

If you see, sme posts before dimviii wrote this about Solberg: "comparing Petter with Loeb you are going to ridicule yourself.Of course he can hit a rock.But NOT in every stage at last 30 rallies."

[Coach 2]

When Mikkelsen is praised, it must surely say something about Hänninen as well.

[Langdale Forest]

You're attacking the wrong guy. Some posts before you can read some of the mates being critics about yesterday's Solberg mistake. Not me, because i can't write like them.

My post was to them.

If you see, sme posts before dimviii wrote this about Solberg: comparing Petter with Loeb you are going to ridicule yourself.Of course he can hit a rock.But NOT in every stage at last 30 rallies.



What people are you talking about? :confused:

[JAM]

What people are you talking about? :confused:

Oh man... All the ones who criticized Petter by hit a stone yesterday.

[Mauri A]

What people are you talking about? :confused:

Could you, Dimvii and Jam shut your mouths for a moment, one hour for instance, so we others can concentrate in following the rally?

[Coach 2]

Could you, Dimvii and Jam shut your mouths for a moment, one hour for instance, so we others can concentrate in following the rally?

They are in s.park now.

[JAM]

Could you, Dimvii and Jam shut your mouths for a moment, one hour for instance, so we others can concentrate in following the rally?

You're right. But is dificult to see so many stupid things writen about all the drivers, except Loeb. Is stronger than me.

[Mauri A]

They are in s.park now.

O.K., let´s make it three hours then!

[JAM]

Let's talk abou the rally.

A Hollywood fight by the leading. Sordo is on 3rd and with no expectations of doing better than this, just like Ostberg that is in 4th. Al-Attiyah is having a rally with troubles. On the Skoda Fight Mikkelsen is showing a good pace, and is putting Ogier under pressure. Neuville and Solberg will win a place each other until the end of the leg.

[A FONDO]

There's nothing interesting in the rally. What a pointless season.

[Mauri A]

There's nothing interesting in the rally. What a pointless season.

Why not go away then?

[rallye-vid]

Indeed.. boring

[vkangas]

Great driving by Mikko. Maybe Loeb is not pushing all the way but he has been doing many small mistakes and was also close to crash on last stage.

[JAM]

Why not go away then?

And why not you?

We are writig and discussing on the subject of the rally. As the rally don't have any interest (except the skoda fight), it's natural that the discussiions go to lateral matters as how stupid is to hit a stone on a stage. Is not a bright discussion, i agree, but does the rally have somethig more to be discussed? have you started one better subject than this?

If the rally would have points to be discussed, you would have two or more discussions at tha same time. But as the rally don't have points of discussion, this is the only one that still mantains.

You have the right to express your dislike, but you don't need to be rude doing that.

[JAM]

Great driving by Mikko. Maybe Loeb is not pushing all the way but he has been doing many small mistakes and was also close to crash on last stage.

Maybe the mistakes come to light because he is running much slower and losing concentration?

[vkangas]

Maybe the mistakes come to light because he is running much slower and losing concentration?
Don't think so. Far away from cruise mode.

[Mauri A]

You have the right to express your dislike, but you don't need to be rude doing that.

Rude? Me not! Maybe it is a question how to express himself. We Finns are used to put it straigth with very few words, and that´s maybe the reason for misunderstanding.
Anyway, I´ll go away as you wished!

[dimviii]

Could you, Dimvii and Jam shut your mouths for a moment, one hour for instance, so we others can concentrate in following the rally?
have you got a live feed at service park?

[dyfi1]

Is there a delay after service? Irally app saying ss10 due to start at 15.29h local time. I thought ss10 was scheduled for 14.44h? Anyone heard anything, or is it irally not being accurate?!

[andyone]

hehehe im really enjoying the fight between mikklesen and ogier. i see ogier is being beaten. woow nice one to see. damn




http://www.google.com/uds/css/small-logo.png

[dimviii]

Nassers ds3 that have to travel to service park
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/12/15/26/89/arlohy10.jpg

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/577969_10150779709363641_188289138640_9528605_5896 41389_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305513_10150784557343641_188289138640_9539244_1120 222417_n.jpg

[tfp]

There's nothing interesting in the rally. What a pointless season.

Quite right, other than the Ogier V Mikkelson fight theres not much now. Like I said around a week ago, the season is decided now. I wish VW were in. At least when the Fords crash then Citroen wont be gifted with wins and points.

[dimviii]

stage 10 is live

[N.O.T]

rally is on once more...

[dimviii]

Nasser will not continue

[skarderud]

1 up for petter! how high can he gets, is it any fights that can make mistakes around?

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/d1_jm_016.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/arg/d1_jm_006.jpg

eWRC.cz - Fotogalerie Rally Argentina 2012 (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=3491&fotograf=230)

[Francis44]

Loeb and Hirvonnen told to hold position after midday service.

The fight is over :( .

Citroën want to make sure of one-two - Citroën WRC (http://www.citroen-wrc.com/en/2012/news/wrc-news/2802/citroen-want-to-make-sure-of-one-two/) .

[Viking]

Can anybody tell me why Araujo today is starting before Petter?