WRC Germany 2011

[N.O.T]

you are right...very nice :D :D

pity about hanninen though

[xavier]

Citroen's tyre tactics stun rivals in Germany - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93832)

I actually thought the report of different tires on Left and Right was a joke. You'd think the car behavior should be weird, but apparently not!
Kudos to Citroen for their inventiveness

[Miika]

Review of the first loop of stages this morning, including the small off from Ogier in SS1 ( at 3:15 in the vid ), the big off from Prokop ( 10:02 ) and a small mistake by the shoes salesman ( 9:34 ) :
WRC Rallye Deutschland 2011 stages 1-3 Day 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNxEvRTPRSM)

Malcolm: "We made some changes for this event - we hired a weather man." I think I just pissed my pants.

[Cloverleaf]

Malcolm: "We made some changes for this event - we hired a weather man."
Very wise move :)

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Some error in penalties?!

World Rally Championship - Results - ADAC Rallye Deutschland (http://wrc.com/results/2011/adac-rally-deutschland/penalties/)

[mousti]

I hope we get a battle tomorrow between Hans and Tanak. Seems the Ford is also good on tarmac and Tanak too, a star is coming maybe :o

[r199]

I actually thought the report of different tires on Left and Right was a joke. You'd think the car behavior should be weird, but apparently not!
Kudos to Citroen for their inventiveness

In the WTCC Tom Coronel did it also ontime in the wet, slick front and intermediat back, he won his only WTCC race this way, no one could beleve he did that, he whas the first to do something like that in the WTCC

[xavier]

In the WTCC Tom Coronel did it also ontime in the wet, slick front and intermediat back, he won his only WTCC race this way, no one could beleve he did that, he whas the first to do something like that in the WTCC

I can understand back and front, Left and Right still puzzles me

[KKS]

In the WTCC Tom Coronel did it also ontime in the wet, slick front and intermediat back, he won his only WTCC race this way, no one could beleve he did that, he whas the first to do something like that in the WTCC

Front/Rear and Left/Right - it's completely different tyre choices.
Olivier Quesnel told that he did same tactics at Monte'11 is it true? I can remember it.

[Jafry]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/913/913_rally_deutschland_2011_fb9c9c1ce5.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/913/913_rally_deutschland_2011_15ce5b03e7.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/913/913_rally_deutschland_2011_7bb59185d7.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/913/913_rally_deutschland_2011_9593c664db.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/913/913_rally_deutschland_2011_eaa1e32837.jpg

More photos from 1st LEG HERE (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=913&fseason=2011)

[N.O.T]

left and right is crazy....only if the special stage has a huge ratio difference between left and right turns would justify that....

[Tomi]

I actually thought the report of different tires on Left and Right was a joke. You'd think the car behavior should be weird, but apparently not!
Kudos to Citroen for their inventiveness

Its nothing new with that, in Monte for instance its often the choise.

[mousti]

Its nothing new with that, in Monte for instance its often the choise.
back and front , not left and right..

[Tomi]

back and front , not left and right..

Yes left and right, depends to what direction there are more turns.

[vkangas]

Last Monte Hänninen used also same tires in opposite corners for atleast one stage.

[hanjob11]

Hi,

photos of todays special stages are online at http://www.rally3.de (http://www.rally3.de/)

Karsten

[dimviii]

@not

lol about the slower new wrc cars.Do Not remind us your epic fail.
Like it or not new wrc cars are faster till now at 98% of ss we have search.
For now they are just equal at their FIRST asphalt rally comparing with almost decade evolution of old wrc cars.Try to understant it,and don t try to confuse us measuring 2010 second pass with 2011 first pass...

About your question if they can change internals parts of engine,no they cant.Engines are sealed for plenty of years in wrc.Didn t know that?

[N.O.T]

i never heard about left and right side change only back/front and cross change...

I think on Monte hanninen did cross changes.

It would be nice if we have a confirmation because it is weird..especially if you are going to use the tyres again the wear on them would be completely different...

[N.O.T]

@not

lol about the slower new wrc cars.Do Not remind us your epic fail.
Like it or not new wrc cars are faster till now at 98% of ss we have search.
For now they are just equal at their FIRST asphalt rally comparing with almost decade evolution of old wrc cars.Try to understant it,and don t try to confuse us measuring 2010 second pass with 2011 first pass...

About your question if they can change internals parts of engine,no they cant.Engines are sealed for plenty of years in wrc.Didn t know that?

i compared 1st pass with 1st pass and 2nd with second...on the first the new ones are way slower and on the second are just 0.2 faster but if you see the comments Loeb stalled the engine and overshoot junction....

First pass

Výsledky Rallye: Výsledky on-line (http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=163&filtr=) (2011)
Výsledky Rallye: Výsledky on-line (http://2010.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=403&filtr=) (2010)

second pass

Výsledky Rallye: Výsledky on-line (http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=166&filtr=) (2011)
Výsledky Rallye: Výsledky on-line (http://2010.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=406&filtr=) (2010)

Loeb on second pass was 0.7 slower from sordo but

LOEB S. / ELENA D. "Good day. Little mistake in this stage, I went off on juction a stalled engine little."

i think that cost him more than just 0.7

its ok, i understand your frustration....most people do not accept these things easily but ok i am nice.

the discussion ends now.

next year i think the new wrcs are going to be at least equal if not faster which is nice.

[Sulland]

the megane n4 doesn't show much either....

How good is the driver ?

[N.O.T]

do not really know..mohe is the renault ambassador in germany...local fans should know more...but his times are not that good compared with the local Mitsubishi times...

[dinartegouveia]

Good question. ;)

[bluuford]

Egon Kaur got some time back at the end of day, because he caught the car in front almost each stage today. Afternoon the cap was increased to three minutes, but he still caught the car in front:-) At least the final time is different to the time after the last stage.. very confusing for me.

[uranium]

I can't understand situation with times on wrc.com
J. HÄNNINEN and H. GASSNER JR has O. TÄNAK time +10 min
Why??

[DonJippo]

Like it or not new wrc cars are faster till now at 98% of ss we have search.

Tires make the difference new cars are not faster but tires are.

[Mise]

[/QUOTE]its ok, i understand your frustration....most people do not accept these things easily but ok i am nice.

the discussion ends now.

next year i think the new wrcs are going to be at least equal if not faster which is nice.[/QUOTE]

Of course you have calculated the tyre factor in these times.
From Pirelli to Michelin could mean 1 sec/ km.

[Miika]

Action from stages 4-6:
WRC Rallye Deutschland 2011 stages 4-6 Day 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQUv8oO9L64)

[N.O.T]

its ok, i understand your frustration....most people do not accept these things easily but ok i am nice.

the discussion ends now.

next year i think the new wrcs are going to be at least equal if not faster which is nice.


Of course you have calculated the tyre factor in these times.
From Pirelli to Michelin could mean 1 sec/ km.

to be honest i do not care if they are faster or not...

the thing is that i do not visit rallies with a stopwatch on my hand...

what i saw on acropolis this year as far as speed was concerned power and torque is that it disappoint me compared to last year...

the times show that the cars this year are slower...i must admit they are far better than i expected them but still slower.

tires are a factor for sure...but i mostly care of what i see live not in the stage times...

but i am no liar.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dissapointed with the Fords today... bad tyre choice, driver mistakes and mechanical problems...
As if beating the Cits wasnt hard enough already :(

I was also dissapointed with the stages - hardly 'all-tarmac', the cars seemed to spend more time on gravel dragged on to the road and cutting across the grass in many places...

[darkstar]

prokop´s crash: Rallye Deutschland 2011 Ausfall Prokop - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjp4SDutuc&feature=youtu.be)

[uranium]

prokop´s crash: Rallye Deutschland 2011 Ausfall Prokop - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjp4SDutuc&feature=youtu.be)

Lucky (and stupid at the same time) two operators...

[N.O.T]

Damn....i really would like to see footage from the cameras of those two less gifted mentally individuals....

very high speed crash and prokop was lucky there was a field at that side.

[wildsir]

According to MINI press release, Meeke had fuel surge problem on last loop. That explain why his split looked really good, then dropped off.
Press Release (http://www.pressreleasemanager.co.uk/viewPressRelease.asp?ID=C8F9E14A-AD14-465F-8A9F-A078BAA31AF0)

[Luis Pacheco]

prokop´s crash: Rallye Deutschland 2011 Ausfall Prokop - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjp4SDutuc&feature=youtu.be)


This year's wine production will be lower in that area. :D

It was a high speed went off. Thankfully no one was hurt.

[N.O.T]

According to MINI press release, Meeke had fuel surge problem on last loop. That explain why his split looked really good, then dropped off.
Press Release (http://www.pressreleasemanager.co.uk/viewPressRelease.asp?ID=C8F9E14A-AD14-465F-8A9F-A078BAA31AF0)

he also had a spin on that stage....lost around 5 seconds.

[Aquagen]

Added some photos from Day 1:

Àâòîñïîðò â Óêðàèíå - WRC ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2011 (http://www.reporters.com.ua/gallery/1/116/)

http://www.reporters.com.ua/gall_img/c18a628d7b819fc57473c5a637830ce3.jpg

http://www.reporters.com.ua/gall_img/645969aa35ac1b796092ee13f8b40bc9.jpg

[Cloverleaf]

only if the special stage has a huge ratio difference between left and right turns would justify that....
Any info about that?

[Co-driven]

I can't understand situation with times on wrc.com
J. HÄNNINEN and H. GASSNER JR has O. TÄNAK time +10 min
Why??

Both Hanninen and Gassner Jr lost the wheel on today's last stage. I think they managed to finish the stage but as they would be disqualified if they continued the road section on just 3 wheels, they decided to stop right there. So, they had to use SuperRally rules.

[wwbroe]

Both Hanninen and Gassner Jr lost the wheel on today's last stage. I think they managed to finish the stage but as they would be disqualified if they continued the road section on just 3 wheels, they decided to stop right there. So, they had to use SuperRally rules.

That is correct, both ripped a wheel off at probably same place in last stage. Both are restarting today normally under superrally, but especially for Juho it is one expensive mistake regarding championship.

[HaCo]

Where to find the starterlist from today?
Grtz from Hermeskeil.

[GigiGalliNo1]

What would the penalty be if he drove on 3 wheels? Worse or better then SuperRally penalty time?

[wwbroe]

What would the penalty be if he drove on 3 wheels? Worse or better then SuperRally penalty time?

I think he would be taken out of the rally, with no possibility to restart.

[wwbroe]

Where to find the starterlist from today?
Grtz from Hermeskeil.

Have a look at this one Haco: World Rally Championship - Results - ADAC Rallye Deutschland (http://www.wrc.com/results/2011/adac-rally-deutschland/start-lists/)

[wwbroe]

I see on starting list that Martin Prokop will be restarting also, so not too much damage after his high speed off?

[wwbroe]

Twenty minutes to go for start of first special stage of today.

[wwbroe]

First stage of the day should be live

[rage82]

Wake up guys! The rally is live :)

[wwbroe]

Ogier is just a little bit faster as Loeb on second split.

[wwbroe]

Ogier doesn't seem to be too happy, not wanting to talk to Colin.

[6789]

Keep up the updates. I'm at wrk :)

[KKS]

wwbroe, and a little bit angry then Loeb :D

[rage82]

Sordo is 3-rd quickets so far. Hope that he can catch Hirvonen

[rage82]

Meeke with problem, some mistake on junktion

[KKS]

Good morning for Mini even with a Mekee loss at the end

[F1boat]

I hope that Loeb will beat Ogier. Citroen totally owns this rally.

[rage82]

JML fastest on the 1-st stage, hope he can do better than yesterday

[J.Lindstroem]

Sordo for 3rd!

[wwbroe]

Rather good time for Ostberg, saying the car is working much better today.

[Tom206wrc]

Good time from Latvala, but when you have nothing to lose anymore, it's easier to have no strategy than attacking on stage :mark:

[Tom206wrc]

I hope that Loeb will beat Ogier. Citroen totally owns this rally.


Only the Ford "first hour" fans really believed the Fiestas could beat the DS3s on tarmac ;)

[wwbroe]

Wilslow is even capable of going off the road at the speed he is travelling? :D

[wwbroe]

Seems like Juho Hanninen is a bit demotivated looking at his time at this first stage of the day, he is even slower as his teammate Gasner. That didn't happen too much this year yet.

[KKS]

IMHO It's classic Juho, If he didn't catch 1st place - he didn't push hard .

[wwbroe]

IMHO It's classic Juho, If he didn't catch 1st place - he didn't push hard .

Maybe you are right, but he should push anyhow. It will be good training for next week's Barum Rally. ;)

Latvala starts the new day with stage win. Loeb keeps the leader position.
Jari-Matti Latvala starts the second day of Rally Germany with a stage win. After the serial of problems during the day one in the overnight service changed the spark plugs, injection coils and fuel injectors. The Finn but has a stomach upset. The rally leader Sebastien Loeb said: “I had a clean run with no mistakes. I took a hard tyre with two spares for safety”.
The second place after stage 7 Hermeskeil / Gusenburg 1 (11.37km) is Ogier at +7.7 sec. Third place for Mikko Hirvonen at +1:22.6 forth is Dani Sordo with his MINI John Cooper Works WRC who said that is made few mistakes at the start of the stage 7. Peter Solberg is fifth ahead Kris Meeke who overshot a junction. Still seven stages remain to the end of day 2.

[Miika]

Hihii, Ogier.

[KKS]

oh -2.1 for Ogier at 2nd split, a bit nervous situation to Citroen's no.2 contract to 2012 year :D

[KKS]

wow -3.9

[Miika]

Hihii, Ogier celebrating his new deal with the VW camp?

[wwbroe]

Something is definetely going on between the two Seb's from Citroen, Ogier doesn't want to speak anymore to Colin.

[KKS]

Hihii, Ogier celebrating his new deal with the VW camp?

Ogier is too young to dictate Citroen what they may do, so if he want no.1 but at unknown car with unknown speed at far 2013 - his decision, but he can be no.1 at team but no.11 at championship standing :D

[Tom206wrc]

Nice !!!! Ogier back at 3"8 on SS8 good for the suspense !!! :)

[GINE]

Loeb might be saving the tyres for Panzerplatte... He is the master! He knows better than everyone how to get the best from every stage. Panzerplatte will be crucial for the rally outcome.

Great time by Flodin on stage 7

[mm1]

WTF? Loeb: maybe it`s time for team orders. Pussy!

[Tom206wrc]

Hihii, Ogier celebrating his new deal with the VW camp?



Don't dream !!!! Ogier will remain at Citroën :p :

[TMorel]

Pffff using different tyres left to right is nothing new. We did it on a stage at Weston Park back in the mid 90's.

Unfortunately we didn't actually intend to do it. Our service crew had used old worn slicks to hold down the tarpaulin as it was a cold windy day and somehow the mechanic on one side fitted those instead of the nice warm sticky chunky gravel tyres... Ended up going straight off after the bridge and destroyed the rose garden. Even now if you go on a guided tour of the estate you can still see the damage :)

[wwbroe]

Pffff using different tyres left to right is nothing new. We did it on a stage at Weston Park back in the mid 90's.

Unfortunately we didn't actually intend to do it. Our service crew had used old worn slicks to hold down the tarpaulin as it was a cold windy day and somehow the mechanic on one side fitted those instead of the nice warm sticky chunky gravel tyres... Ended up going straight off after the bridge and destroyed the rose garden. Even now if you go on a guided tour of the estate you can still see the damage :)

Maybe in Citroen service they didn't intend to put those mixed tyres either? Just joking offcourse, but nice story. :D

[wwbroe]

What happened with Hanninen, loosing big amount of time towards the end of the stage?

[Tom206wrc]

Also Burkart lost a lot on split 2 and 3 of SS8 :s

[Donalduck]

Ogier to VW? Now thats interesting... To bad this is more exciting than the who's winning the rally!!

[rage82]

Burkart stopped for a while in the stage that's why he lost some time

[awake27]

Seems to me that there are team orders at Citroen, just Ogier ignore them anyway at least in the first 2 stages of the loop. For what other reason is not talking at the stage end?

[Micke_VOC]

FLodin doing a good job with the mini....

[awake27]

Citroen group board member Jean-Marc Gales said: “We want to win this rally and get the two cars over the finishing line in first and second place and make one step further towards the World Rally Championship for the brand. In every race there is some point when there is time to say clearly what we want.”

from wrc.com

Again no Ouesnel doing the speaking, seems there maybe power shifts in the Citroen camp this week.

[wwbroe]

What happened to Petter, splits were looking good and suddenly he is loosing about 40 sec :eek: :confused:

Video by Day 1:
http://www.rallypulse.com/news/news/index.php?id=53
Part 2
http://www.rallypulse.com/news/news/index.php?id=54
All the actions is available on www.rallypulse.com (http://www.rallypulse.com)

[wwbroe]

Hmm....front puncture for Petter unfortunally.

[TMorel]

I wonder when "that point" is going to be? Has Jean-Marc Gales already decided it's now or does Ogier still have a stage or two left to keep pushing like crazy so he'll be the one that gets the nod.

To be honest, I do think Citroën is giving Ford too much credit, I think the Sebs could afford to go and throw it all away a couple of times in a full charge for glory and still win the championship

[Mirek]

Juho has no power steering... **** happens...

[Tom206wrc]

Will the Minis reliability resist to the Panzerplatte stage coming now ??? :mark:

[wwbroe]

We will soon find out, but it will not be a test only for Mini, i think it is a tough stage for everybody.

[Tom206wrc]

I wonder when "that point" is going to be? Has Jean-Marc Gales already decided it's now or does Ogier still have a stage or two left to keep pushing like crazy so he'll be the one that gets the nod.

To be honest, I do think Citroën is giving Ford too much credit, I think the Sebs could afford to go and throw it all away a couple of times in a full charge for glory and still win the championship


It's not a matter of giving credit to the Ford camp, me thinks is the fact if one or both Loeb and Ogier is off road/puncture/broken/... it gives positions automaticly to Hirvonen and points to Ford ;)

[wwbroe]

The "big" Pantserplatte stage is now live, let's see what is happening over there.

[wwbroe]

Does anybody see some splits for this stage?

[TMorel]

It's not a matter of giving credit to the Ford camp, me thinks is the fact if one or both Loeb and Ogier is off road/puncture/broken/... it gives positions automaticly to Hirvonen and points to Ford ;)

What I meant was credit in the ability of Ford to keep that gap. Since Mexico, Citroën has outscored Ford by an average of 15points, so with another 4 rounds and 65 points in hand I really can't see Ford doing anything but selfdestructing and throwing away whatever bones Citroën give to them.

[awake27]

Stage start delayed by 10 min

[wwbroe]

Seems like there is some confusion about the correct starting time, it looks like 11h07 is the right starting time.

[Mirek]

From facebook of Martin Prokop:


ATENTION!!!
Help us to find the people who stole Hans System and toolbox from the crashed Car. If someone finds them we will honor it...
Quirin Müller
Jipocar Racing Team
Logisticky Areal D1| Stritez u Jihlavy 3| CZ- 58811 Jihlava
GSM: +420 724 645 082

[Wim_Impreza]

FLodin doing a good job with the mini....

Lol, he is 30 minutes behind the leader.

What happened with Felix Herbold?

[wwbroe]

Great time for Weys on stage 9, coming really close to Tanak now. Did Juho manage to repair the powersteering problem, because he is not loosing so much time now?

[wwbroe]

Lol, he is 30 minutes behind the leader.

What happened with Felix Herbold?

Just not good enough :D

[Juha_Koo]

Lol, he is 30 minutes behind the leader.

Well, that's because he retired yesterday on SS2... His time on SS7 was a nice surprise.

[KKS]

oh so close Ogier and Loeb on PanzerPlatte

[MikeD]

I am so impressed with the MINI's in this rally. If they get to the end with two cars in top 6, then that's mighty impressive and is a good sign for the future of the sport (IMO).

I don't know if other also fear that a new world recession might once again have a massive effect on this sport - and if one has the pessismistic glasses on, one could fear that VW might pull the plug on WRC before it even began.

[Micke_VOC]

Lol, he is 30 minutes behind the leader.

?

Flodin retired on second stage yesterday, but stagetimes today is okay for him a think.

[6789]

Go go Ogier!!

[wwbroe]

Latvalla is fastest trough at split 1 and 2

[wwbroe]

Hirvonen is loosing suddenly a lot of time?

[N.O.T]

i think team orders will be employed....

[KKS]

Sorrddooooo GOGOGOGOGO

[Tom206wrc]

Henning on Panzerplatte :confused:

[N.O.T]

problems for Hirvonen....

[N.O.T]

definately problems for miko...lost 30 seconds to sordo on 1 split....

[Micke_VOC]

Puncture for Hirvo, so now we have a mini on podium position =)

[BleAivano]

problems for Hirvonen....

right rear wheel puncture.

[wwbroe]

Sordo takes about 30 secs on Hirvonen at last split.

[Juha_Koo]

Apparently Citroen's top management (above the rally team) has intervened and has ordered to maintain positions. Will Ogier comply? :D

[Juha_Koo]

We have Mini on a podium place! Excellent! :)

[r199]

:D :D :D Sordo 3rd now go mini

[N.O.T]

MIko loses 1 minute....

[wwbroe]

Yes indeed, Sordo on the podium now in the Mini :)

[N.O.T]

Really happy about the minis pace...very very nice. Lets hope BMW sees that...

[wwbroe]

And Meeke only 2.4 sec adrift of Hirvonen for fourth place.

[wwbroe]

Good time for Petter Solberg

[N.O.T]

team orders is the best solution now....the 3rd car is way behind and the risk is too much for the manyufacturer especially with the fords having problems and losing points like that.

Loeb was ahead after all...no reason to push.

[N.O.T]

Meeke loses his place to solberg....

[focus206]

We will have a great fight for the win :)
But what happened to Kuipers?!? He is doing a great rally so far!!! :eek:

[r199]

Kuipers is going real fast

[N.O.T]

really nice place from the tourist kuipers...

Wilson should stop rallying right now...the joke has gone too far...he is a disgrace to himself his team the sport and everyone who has faith (LOL) in him.....

Raikonen should go to Lemans or WTCC now that they lost Loeb (LOL)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Go sordo!!!!! :d

[GigiGalliNo1]

really nice place from the tourist kuipers...

Wilson should stop rallying right now...the joke has gone too far...he is a disgrace to himself his team the sport and everyone who has faith (LOL) in him.....

Raikonen should go to Lemans or WTCC now that they lost Loeb (LOL)

True! :)

But if Kuipers gets a team next year... will he still be tourist driveR?

[N.O.T]

Good times from prokop as well..pity there is not a big fight for 1st place to se the real pace of tanak and weisj.

[N.O.T]

True! :)

But if Kuipers gets a team next year... will he still be tourist driveR?

yes. being a joke on every rally apart from 1-2 does not make you a rally driver.

wisest option...go to wtcc or lemans and opnly drive on germany.

[Plan9]

I hope Meeke and Sordo can consolidate on their current positions. It will be a great confidence boost.

[N.O.T]

I hope Meeke and Sordo can consolidate on their current positions. It will be a great confidence boost.

i would like meeke 1 step further.

[Plan9]

what has happened to Hanninen?

[r199]

KB stoped in stage
think Flodin had to change a tire

[N.O.T]

KB ?

[r199]

Ken Block sorry

[Wim_Impreza]

Flodin retired on second stage yesterday, but stagetimes today is okay for him a think.

He has again problems in SS10...

[N.O.T]

he should stick to his video for little retards where there are second takes and more explosions.....it is hard to become a real man at the age of 50.

[Tom206wrc]

Wow Räikkönen passes both Kuipers and Henning after Panzerplatte :D

[MikeD]

really nice place from the tourist kuipers...

Wilson should stop rallying right now...the joke has gone too far...he is a disgrace to himself his team the sport and everyone who has faith (LOL) in him.....

The most sad part with Wilson is that he set almost the same time as Hirvonen with a car with no problem compared with a car with a puncture. That just shows how much he sucks...

[Priorat]

Sordo's position in Germany is the most reliable way to know how far is Mini from Citroën at the moment. Although a podium place is excellent result, being 2 minutes apart after half rally is not that good (IMO)

[wwbroe]

Sordo's position in Germany is the most reliable way to know how far is Mini from Citroën at the moment. Although a podium place is excellent result, being 2 minutes apart after half rally is not that good (IMO)

This says it all about Ford's pace, isn't it? :D

[Luis Pacheco]

After yesterday excitement the portuguese fans and the press are all dumb today. I really do not understand ...

[Red bull]

Ogier to VW? Now thats interesting... To bad this is more exciting than the who's winning the rally!!
source? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Juha_Koo]

Sordo's position in Germany is the most reliable way to know how far is Mini from Citroën at the moment. Although a podium place is excellent result, being 2 minutes apart after half rally is not that good (IMO)

Well, Mini was also on hard tyres on SS2 and lost there about 45-50 seconds. Also single SS results (especially s/km) are very encouraging... Now on Panzerplatte Sordo lost only 0,2 s per km to Ogier. Taking into account all of today's morning stages, it's 0,3 s/km. And it is Mini's 3rd WRC rally. Not bad!

[N.O.T]

source? :confused: :confused: :confused:

star trek universe... very reliable so far.

[JHvP]

He lost 40 s in rainy SS2

[wwbroe]

Prokop not pleased with Hanninen, staying at his bumper for 20 Kms, Juho didn't let him pass.

[N.O.T]

Sordo's position in Germany is the most reliable way to know how far is Mini from Citroën at the moment. Although a podium place is excellent result, being 2 minutes apart after half rally is not that good (IMO)

nobody expects for mini to be a winning car any time soon, not even next year, but to have resspectable results some times is the only thing you need to keep you into the sport for some time (look at ford)...when was the last time you saw a manufacturer getting a podium finish(if they do) on their intruduction year with limited program ??? I can only name citroen....so i guess mini is on good track to have a car that the competition should not take lightly...

[Red bull]

star trek universe... very reliable so far.

LOL...

[Rallyper]

This says it all about Ford's pace, isn't it? :D

Except for puctures, technical failures etz...?

[Priorat]

It's Mini's first tarmac rally like it is DS3 first tarmac rally.
We must remember that is Prodrive with all his experience who is running this program, not BMW starting from 0.
When the Focus', 206, Xsaras or Corollas were starting they were not that far. Perhaps didn't get podiums but were winning stages.
IMO they are a bit too far if they think of winning something some day.
Looks more like an extension of Subaru's campaign to me.

Of course I hope to be completelly wrong and we have a four makes battle in 2013.

[wwbroe]

Except for puctures, technical failures etz...?

That is just the problem, they always have something that isn't right. And if it isn't technical faillure, it is the weatherman that is taking wrong gamble.

[N.O.T]

It's Mini's first tarmac rally like it is DS3 first tarmac rally.
We must remember that is Prodrive with all his experience who is running this program, not BMW starting from 0.
When the Focus', 206, Xsaras or Corollas were starting they were not that far. Perhaps didn't get podiums but were winning stages.
IMO they are a bit too far if they think of winning something some day.
Looks more like an extension of Subaru's campaign to me.

Of course I hope to be completelly wrong and we have a four makes battle in 2013.

to win stages you have to have drivers capable of doing so....

Sordo can win on tarmac but never convinsigly in the citroen so it would take the mini to be a revelation to do that...which is not...

Overall i think its a very promising result...

[Tom206wrc]

nobody expects for mini to be a winning car any time soon, not even next year, but to have resspectable results some times is the only thing you need to keep you into the sport for some time (look at ford)...when was the last time you saw a manufacturer getting a podium finish(if they do) on their intruduction year with limited program ??? I can only name citroen....so i guess mini is on good track to have a car that the competition should not take lightly...



You mean MINI to be another "Hyundai" :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

to win stages you have to have drivers capable of doing so....

Sordo can win on tarmac but never convinsigly in the citroen so it would take the mini to be a revelation to do that...which is not...

Overall i think its a very promising result...

Don't forget SORDO is better tarmac driver than Ogier, who therefore won several stages ;)

[focus206]

You mean MINI to be another "Hyundai" :confused:

No, he means Mini can be a great car in next years.

[N.O.T]

You mean MINI to be another "Hyundai" :confused:

quite the opposite...

It is all in the hands of BMW i think...if they want mini to be a competitive car and to be able to win stages and why not challenge for podium (due to speed not reliability) they can do it, because prodrive showed that they can build a car which is not a joke (like suzuki/hyundai/seat for example)

Dream scenario would be BMW goes crazy on the project and introduces a series 1 BMW rally car to the series to battle with VW...

[alleskids]

Although BMW is not directly involved, they still want their brand to score in WRC, just like they did not have much succes with the privatly run and funded BMW X5CC of X-Raid but with support of BMW. X-Raid maid the X3CC a winnerscar, with the support of BMW. Prodrive can be sure their progress is monitered closely by BMW

Dani Sordo with Mini moved to third place.

Dani Sordo challenges for the podium place ahead the forth in overall Mikko Hirvonen. Dani is third at +2:00.3 by the current leader Sebastien Loeb and the second Sebastien Ogier at +4.8 seconds. Mikko is at +2:33.2 after having a puncture. Also a puncture problem pushes the privateer Peter Solberg to sixth place while to fifth position moved K. Meeke at +2:35.6. Seventh place is Kimi Raikkonen at +4:50.9 while Latvala moves to the points currently at tenth place at +6:19.6.

You can find video by the first day of Rally Germany 20011 on www.rallypulse.com (http://www.rallypulse.com)

[F1boat]

Mini are doing very well, I am really impressed...

[aykutbilir]

Hope Mini can see the finishline.. Remember the last stage of Finland. Both overheat and out..

[Messi]

I think what Prodrive have done with MINI is fantastic. Prodrive are not even close to M-sport or Citroen in budget and resources. It is the same guys at prodrive that are doing the events, all the tests, the building of the cars and the service back home. Back at the subaru days prodrive had almost unlimited budget and around 100 people more than today, all cred to prodrive. Also they´ve done their homework with the chassi and done a great work with Ohlins.

[focus206]

Next stage is on.

[Miika]

Yes the Citroens are keeping a clear safe margin now, 1,3 sec the difference now.

[Tom206wrc]

Well well...Ogier only +1"8 off Loeb after SS11 :)

[KKS]

Again Sordo slower at last part of the stage... but only 1sec. :)

[focus206]

Good time for Ogier, now he is only 1.3 seconds behind Loeb.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordooo!!!!

[ZequeArgentina]

Good time for Ogier, now he is only 1.3 seconds behind Loeb.

Both Loeband Ogier have let understand there are (or will for sure be) team orders, so the fight is not that true.

I have the feeling that Loeb secured his position in Citroen after top management gave him guarantees
and things are more "normal".

Unfortunately, I think the battle at the second with Loeb pushed at his limits, might be over, only first day, then fixed positions.
Only hope is more competition from other teams

[focus206]

Problems for Kimi:
14:38 Raikkonen slows on SS11
Citroen DS3 WRC driver Kimi Raikkonen drops 17.2s on SS11 and loses seventh position to Henning Solberg. "At the beginning we hit a bump and the car lost power. We also spun halfway through."

[Miika]

Juho and Gassner Jr. crashing into the very same wall yesterday:
2 Red Bull Skodas crashing in the same place - WRC Rallye Deutschland 2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1G8XOevoBc)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Isn't it funny last few rallies or when ever it was Ogier and Loeb were fighting about who will win and the competition? Now Loeb is winning and Ogier pi$$ed' off!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Juho Hänninen and team-mate Hermann Gassner Jr. both loose their rear wheels? :(

[Mirek]

Juho Hänninen and team-mate Hermann Gassner Jr. both loose their rear wheels? :(

In same corner of same stage...

[Tom206wrc]

No more Al Attiyah on SS11 :confused:

[KKS]

After SS1 I remove Tanak from rally win at Germany. I thought battle will be only between Prokop and Hanninen but now non-tarmac driver Tanak at 90% win rally by his stable drive.

[Mintexmemory]

No more Al Attiyah on SS11 :confused:
5th fastest SWRC time

Interesting how maturely Ott is driving,no need for fastest stage times but not a sniff of losing momentum. Weijs of course isn't SWRC registered so he will still just be trying to set times to impress VW

C'mon Kris 4th is there for the taking :s mokin:

[mousti]

True! :)

But if Kuipers gets a team next year... will he still be tourist driveR?
Really a team? If he buys himself in a team he'll be still a gentleboy driver. Everyone who knows Kuipers from the Dutch championship knew he has soms potential on asphalt and that's all.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Really a team? If he buys himself in a team he'll be still a gentleboy driver. Everyone who knows Kuipers from the Dutch championship knew he has soms potential on asphalt and that's all.

Gentleboy... no I mean if he were in a team, got a team (this is hypothetically speaking) I wanted to know Opinion :) ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Can Burri Jr catch Crugnola for GrR podium position(9" between them after SS11) ??? :p :

[N.O.T]

Is there a delay in ss13 ???

[GigiGalliNo1]

N.O.T (Ignores! hahahaha)

[BleAivano]

Is there a delay in ss13 ???

just a timing error. it seems.

[N.O.T]

No splits for ss13...Loeb and Ogier safe through.

[Tom206wrc]

SS12 running: Loeb finished it ;)

[N.O.T]

Ogier complies with the team orders....

good for him

:D :D :D

[N.O.T]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "Really nice jump there, massively sideways there, like in Finland."

hope we get footage :D

[N.O.T]

27 seconds the difference between Miko and Sordo

[Mintexmemory]

Gentleboy... no I mean if he were in a team, got a team (this is hypothetically speaking) I wanted to know Opinion :) ;)

Nah, firstly he isn't hampered by car inadequacies, he is being steady on a surface he likes - looked totally at sea in Sardinia on gravel. Second if someone were looking to recruit a manufacturer team the guys who were faster in S2000 last year and who have beaten him often in S2000 cars this year (Ott and Juho) must be the prime candidates. Weijs in only his 2nd S2000 outing is showing potential and Haydon Paddon in PWRC is a better (faster) driver than Kuipers all round

[N.O.T]

Solberg losing consistently from the minis doesn't do him any favours for continuing in the WRC next year...however it shows the minis potential.

[Mintexmemory]

Solberg losing consistently from the minis doesn't do him any favours for continuing in the WRC next year...however it shows the minis potential.
Have you considered that now the factory Citroens are assured of the Manufacturer and Driver's titles, they no longer need 'in-house' competition and have done some 'special' mapping of Petter's engine?

[N.O.T]

Have you considered that now the factory Citroens are assured of the Manufacturer and Driver's titles, they no longer need 'in-house' competition and have done some 'special' mapping of Petter's engine?

i like star trek as well....but not that much.

[GigiGalliNo1]

haha!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Solberg losing consistently from the minis doesn't do him any favours for continuing in the WRC next year...however it shows the minis potential.

Perhaps P Solberg can run a private MINI? WOuld this be better then a (hacked when successful) Citroen DS3?

Thoughts?

[N.O.T]

retirement home is better if he doesn't want private team.

[GigiGalliNo1]

HAHAHA, well at least Becs helped me with my Hinklestien Answer!!!

[Tom206wrc]

SS13 just started running ;)

[N.O.T]

no splits though once more....

[MikeD]

no splits though once more....

I have splits on WRC.com and also had for the last stage. Now it's SS13 - are you looking at SS14?

[N.O.T]

they work for me as well now...

Lets see if the Sordo can defend against Hirvonens attack.

[N.O.T]

Another good start for meeke...can he keep it up ?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yes

[Allyc85]

Meeke 0.5 up at first split!

Very sad that Ogier has to obey team orders, with things going so wrong for Ford again.

[focus206]

I think Sordo can manage to finish in 3rd... but he must don't make any mistake.
And next is Panzerplatte :bounce:

[r199]

Citroen, does a great job killing the wrc, let the boys race

[N.O.T]

it would be stupid for citroen not to employ team orders with the current situation...so its all good.

[noel157]

Spin for Meeke?

[N.O.T]

DAMN...another mistake by meeke !!! BAH !!!!

[noel157]

Cows again?

[N.O.T]

well that puts Solberg into contention for his 5th place...

[r199]

bratwurst and beer stand at the end of the stage????

[N.O.T]

mistake by solberg as well ?????

[Tom206wrc]

I can't believe Solberg P didn't took advantage of Meeke's lack of speed on SS13 to reduce the gap :s

[GigiGalliNo1]

bratwurst and beer stand at the end of the stage????

delicious!

[MikeD]

Something but have happened on that final split. Massive loss or both Meeke and PSolberg

[noel157]

Meeke and Solberg puncture at same place on stage. Front right on both cars.

[N.O.T]

no split for latvala..

[MikeD]

Latvala stopped. Went off and picked up a puncture. Also puncture for PSolberg.

[BleAivano]

Perhaps P Solberg can run a private MINI? WOuld this be better then a (hacked when successful) Citroen DS3?

Thoughts?

I think Petter have said that he will NOT have a private team next season.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Something on the stage!

[MikeD]

Problems for Østberg aswell

[N.O.T]

the disaster completes for ford....now hirvonen will just cruise i guess making the job of Sordo easier.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I think Petter have said that he will NOT have a private team next season.

Wasn't it that he didn't want to CHASE for the money to keep the team running... isn't or hasn't he been struggling to get the money to run his team and drive. Wouldn't it be better to say if he has to chase and fight to get money he won't compete but if he has everything organised he will compete? Don't you think?

[noel157]

Something on the stage!

Obviously a rock pulled out or similar.

[mousti]

Wasn't it that he didn't want to CHASE for the money to keep the team running... isn't or hasn't he been struggling to get the money to run his team and drive. Wouldn't it be better to say if he has to chase and fight to get money he won't compete but if he has everything organised he will compete? Don't you think?
Well yeah that's what he said and that means no private team, because being a privateer u have to chase after sponsors. He'll not get everything organised if he doesn't get a contract at a factory team. That's what I think of the current situation

[focus206]

In this rally the pace of Wilson is more terrible than usual :D

[noel157]

With all the internal politics at Citroen will we see Quesnel in the same job next season?

[N.O.T]

if he wants to continue driving after this result then he just has no self esteem at all....

[noel157]

Problems for Østberg aswell

Puncture as well.

[N.O.T]

the big one has started....

[Tom206wrc]

And Panzerplatte just started ;)

[focus206]

Let's see if Panzerplatte shakes something ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

someone will crash! :D

[MikeD]

7th for Dennis Kuipers is a pretty good result (IMHO)

[KKS]

-2,1 by Ogier... hm this guy definitely goes for puncture.

[danon]

Ogie's gonna get that one...

[KKS]

Yeah GigiGalliNo1, we love Ogier :D

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yeh, OGIER goes fast... but then HAS to slow down in splits... :(

[N.O.T]

Loeb and Ogier have orders to finish... lets see if the minis can take the opportunity and win a stage :)

[KKS]

Oh nooo Meeke

[danon]

Doubt it

[GigiGalliNo1]

Eh. Meeke slows... something happened but it's Sordo that needs to do well! Meeke good luck!! ;)

[MikeD]

Big time loss for Meeke again at second split

[TyPat107]

ogier -0.4

[focus206]

Something is happening with Meeke... and Mikko is quite slow too.

[danon]

Ogie is showing who is in control...