Ford ends M-Sport run in WRC?

[dimviii]

Maybe M-Sport is taking to much work into acccount to competitive run a factory WRC team. Citroen Sport is running only 2 WRCars. Custumers are taking care of by Ph Sport. Citroen Sport has only one purpose: running a factory team in WRC. M-Sport should be have stricter seperations between the factory effort for Ford WRT and custumers in WRC, and skip acedemy and old rallycars department to outside companies..
The problem of M-sport is not that they dont have enough mechanics to work on cars,or they don t have enough time or space.Other is the problems imho.
Asking M-sport to delete any category(academy/privateers etc) is like asking Malcolm to loose some decades of millions.


Use budget and facilities from Ford WRT only for Ford WRT..
This is the success of m-sport.Using the budget from Ford to run wrc team with 2 cars,can service/sell/rebuild/rent some 100 wrc cars(M-sport today sells spares for escort cosworth wrc.....model 1990....),and 50 s2000 cars all over the world.Can somebody imagine the annual turnover?



Maybe Ford also has question marks with Wilson juniors WRC career which is jump started with facilities for the factory Ford WRT and were his budget is coming from al these 5+ years.
After your imagination just think if Wilson junior have money to run the rest 25 years at wrc level...

[Bobcat]

Deadline is two weeks away. No announcement, still major sponsor gone, minor sponsor of Jr/B team gone. It's not looking especially positive right now :S
"Mads Østberg thinks the Manufacturer entry deadline will be postponed to 22/12" http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/128975-news-rumours-part-ii-383.html#post989909

[Rallyper]

Fact is that we still have JML in M-sport factory team. And he´s preparing for WRC 2012 with help from M-sport.

To me that fact means Ford (or M-sport) will be there in 2012 in some kind of solution. Because JML already knows what the most of us here on this forum don´t know anything about yet.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Fact is that we still have JML in M-sport factory team. And he´s preparing for WRC 2012 with help from M-sport.

To me that fact means Ford (or M-sport) will be there in 2012 in some kind of solution. Because JML already knows what the most of us here on this forum don´t know anything about yet.

That´s true, because here many of us is talking nonsense, bulls..t and rumours. We are "only" fans etc.. But we are lucky because there is (in WRC) PRO´s who knows, manage, drive, service and do everything in that sport and all that job for us!!

[jonkka]

Because JML already knows what the most of us here on this forum don´t know anything about yet.

JML knows that if Ford won't be there, he's out of work. He has no options besides trusting Ford.

[noel157]

Nowhere for Latvala to go, at least for a year.

[White Sauron]

Why do yo say so? VW still haven't signed a second driver (not second like "support", but another)...

[DonJippo]

Why do yo say so? VW still haven't signed a second driver (not second like "support", but another)...

I'm quite sure second driver has been signed already but it will be published when the time is right.

[Rallyper]

Nowhere for Latvala to go, at least for a year.

And that should be a surprise for him at this stage? No man, he´d known for long what´s going to happen in 2012. That´s what I´m trying to say.

[driveace]

I think that JML will be run by M Sport,with private backing,that Ford will go the way of WTC .I feel that Ford expected better results that have not come ,because I am told there are lots of problems with Fiesta,this can only be due to not enough development,due to the money not being allocated to testing,and probably gone as a profit to Malcolm,or to help Mathew in his programme.Ford are not happy,otherwise it would have been sorted ages ago.Feel sorry for Jari,but he needed answers earlier too

[Rallyper]

I think that JML will be run by M Sport,with private backing,that Ford will go the way of WTC .I feel that Ford expected better results that have not come ,because I am told there are lots of problems with Fiesta,this can only be due to not enough development,due to the money not being allocated to testing,and probably gone as a profit to Malcolm,or to help Mathew in his programme.Ford are not happy,otherwise it would have been sorted ages ago.Feel sorry for Jari,but he needed answers earlier too

I still believe that JML wouldn´t be unaware of such conditions mentioned. So I think that is only speculations.

For sure everyone putting money in something wants a payback. But hasn´t that been the case anyway, even if maybe too much money gone the wrong way into MW´s pocket?

Ford as a brand, I think has a good reputation thanks to the efforts in WRC.

[driveace]

Ford have never owned the rally cars,they are the sole property of M Sport,and the entire rally team has been leased to Ford,with sponsorship from Abu Dhabi and others.So Ford are losing no money as they have no rally team or employees,on preparation base.M Sport ran as a private company,is there to do a job ,which in turn ,they need paying for.

[noel157]

I'm quite sure second driver has been signed already but it will be published when the time is right.

Exactly.

[klek_fi]

too much money to new motorhome ?

[Rallyper]

Exactly.

Well, and that corresponds with my quotes above.

(It is Petter, isn´t it?) ;)

[MJW]

Well, and that corresponds with my quotes above.

(It is Petter, isn´t it?) ;) my guess the other VW driver is Latvala.

[N.O.T]

According to the co-driver of vovos who claims to be very close friends with phill mills Solberg is signed by VW and the deal is 95% done.

[sollitt]

N.O.T. I thought you were scientist. Surely if Solberg was 'signed' by VW wouldn't the deal be 100% done?

[RSmaX]

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latulasport.es%2Findex.php%2Fwr c%2F2832-se-crea-en-facebook-un-grupo-para-que-ford-continue-en-el-wrc.html)

[N.O.T]

N.O.T. I thought you were scientist. Surely if Solberg was 'signed' by VW wouldn't the deal be 100% done?

well thats what the guy said....he said that he was informed that Solberg signed with VW

he was asked if that was certain and he said 95% certain....

do not shoot the messenger...

[tfp]

According to the co-driver of vovos who claims to be very close friends with phill mills Solberg is signed by VW and the deal is 95% done.

If VW dont persue petter they need to open their eyes. He needs a manufacturer seat next year.

[noel157]

my guess the other VW driver is Latvala.

My guess too.

[Miika]

If Solberg is signed for VW then why wouldn´t they announce it already, he doesn´t have contracts that would prevent them from announcing the deal if there was one. I´d say Latvala is signed to VW 2013, and now it is just a matter of when they can announce it and what can he drive next year. If Ford leaves and M-Sport can´t build a proper package for 2012, could Latvala get rid of the M-Sport deal earlier than after 2012 and already start working for VW in 2012?

[Rallyper]

So what would be the package MW could offer without any proper topdriver in his team? Mads and Henning are excused.

My guess is that JML will drive for M-sport in 2012 and in the case discussed above goes to VW 2013 when their development is finished.

Then in 2013 MW has to find a topdriver. Who will it be?

[MJW]

So what would be the package MW could offer without any proper topdriver in his team? Mads and Henning are excused.

My guess is that JML will drive for M-sport in 2012 and in the case discussed above goes to VW 2013 when their development is finished.

Then in 2013 MW has to find a topdriver.
Agreed - thats how I se things too.

[pettersolberg29]

Then in 2013 MW has to find a topdriver. Who will it be?

Remember by 2013 one of Mikkelsen, Neuville or Tanak may be world class so there may be more options for flexibility in the future.

[DonJippo]

Then in 2013 MW has to find a topdriver. Who will it be?

And that in mind maybe having Tanak already in 2012 with works team is not a bad idea.

[tfp]

So what would be the package MW could offer without any proper topdriver in his team? Mads and Henning are excused.

My guess is that JML will drive for M-sport in 2012 and in the case discussed above goes to VW 2013 when their development is finished.

Then in 2013 MW has to find a topdriver. Who will it be?

My guess-ostberg and tanak. But personally I think mw cant afford to get rid of jml, I think he will chain him to the gates if m-sport before he lets him leave for VW!

[N.O.T]

you rate Latvala too high when it comes to team contribution...Ford hasn't won a single title with Latvala in their 1st team so we have to wait and see if he can handle being No1 and help the team to a manufacturers title.

[Plan9]

Hanninen is also in the picture here

[tfp]

you rate Latvala too high when it comes to team contribution...Ford hasn't won a single title with Latvala in their 1st team so we have to wait and see if he can handle being No1 and help the team to a manufacturers title.

I think that is less to do with latvala being in the team, and more to do with gronholm leaving. IMO JML is more than ready to step up to number one, more so than Mikko was when gronholm left.

[N.O.T]

I think that is less to do with latvala being in the team, and more to do with gronholm leaving. IMO JML is more than ready to step up to number one, more so than Mikko was when gronholm left.

speed wise yes, but results wise we have to see...

[RSmaX]

Twitter / @thierryneuville: Even as a Peugeot Driver I am for that Ford stays in WRC! ... (http://twitter.com/#!/thierryneuville/status/142152953296465920)

[tfp]

speed wise yes, but results wise we have to see...

I agree...Bring on Monte!

[RSmaX]

Friday we will know.... Log In | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/170101833087816/)

Ok, JOIN NOW for Ford's continuation!!!!!!!!!

[olschl]

Maybe this link is a repost and if so, I apologize. It did bring some logic to the situation I hadn't thought about.

Was Rallye du Var the last event for Ford? (http://worldrallyreview.com/2011/was-rallye-du-var-the-last-event-for-the-ford/)

[I am evil Homer]

That's a well reasoned article. I did particualrly like this part, which gets to the very heart of the problem with the WRC itself:

"In just a couple of years Block's largely self-funded motorsport career has probably garned more worldwide publicity for Ford, in the demographic that gives marketing me wet dreams, than their WRC campaign has in the last 10 ytears; all for little or no investment from Ford."

[ProRally]

Ford has been handed a life line by FIA WMSC, entry postponed till 19 December 2012

So an other 12 days


Press Release

World Motor Sport Council

07/12/2011

........

FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP

The World Motor Sport Council discussed the recent developments involving the Championship Promoter, North One Sport, and its parent company, CSI, which has gone into administration. The FIA is committed to ensuring the long-term commercial future of the Championship and will make every endeavour to provide for its future stability. The FIA is working on an immediate plan to ensure the fundamental sporting and safety elements will be in place for the start of the 2012 season.

As a consequence, it was also agreed that the registration date for the 2012 FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers be put back to 19 December.

The WMSC agreed that, for safety reasons, a total of 10 tyres of a different compound may be used in place of the nominated compound, when specified as an option in the Supplementary Regulations of an event. The total quantity of tyres to be used during an event will however not change.

The date for the 2012 Rally de España has been changed to 8-11 November.

RALLYING

From 2013, R4T cars will be eligible in the FIA Regional Rally Championships. This new category of four-wheel-drive cars is designed to be cost-effective and more affordable for competitors. The acceptance of different category cars within the FIA World and Regional Rally Championships will be confirmed during 2012.

........

MEETINGS

The World Motor Sport Council will meet next on 9 March 2012 (Milan, Italy).

[noel157]

More a case of Papa Wilson being handed a life line.Or to be more precise, needing a life line.

[rallyfiend]

Probably more related to the FIA needing more time to sort out the NOS issue is sorted.

Otherwise, what are they committing to?

[Bobcat]

Probably more related to the FIA needing more time to sort out the NOS issue is sorted.
You're right: We want Ford's continuation in the WRC (as a manufacturer) | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/170529983045001/)

[tfp]

You're right: We want Ford's continuation in the WRC (as a manufacturer) | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/170529983045001/)

I am already in that group:-)

[bretddog]

Two videos; Journalist faces death with Latvala, and a peak into M-Sport.
- Har du tenkt til å ta livet av meg eller? - tema - Dagbladet.no (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/12/09/tema/bil/rally/motorsport/19071144/)

Nothing interesting said, just a couple basic facts; M-Sport got 220+ employees, and use 1000 [man]hours to build a wrc car. And 4500gbp for an upright..

[Hartusvuori]

^ The beginning of the video with the sounds of distant yet approaching rally car echoing in the forrest... beautiful.

[Viking]

Probably more related to the FIA needing more time to sort out the NOS issue is sorted.

Otherwise, what are they committing to?

As i understand no manufacturers has put in an entry, and they where all unwilling to do so before 12/12

[tfp]

I had a thought before(It hurt, yes :) ) ....Out of the top 5 drivers currently in the WRC.

Seb Ogier- Has a development year in front of him with VW, so he will be out of contention for the world drivers championship.

Jari Matti- We are waiting for confirmation of ford staying in WRC. And lets face the facts, its not really looking all that good :(

Petter Solberg- Understandably, he has grown impatient with being a private driver and competing with manufacturers who are much better equipped than him. He deserves a manufacturer drive than anyone else. Ford will have a spare couple of seats for him and chris, but....if ford pull out...there will be no seat for him, and no place in the 2012 championship :(

Mini-
Thinking realistically, I dont think either one of them(dani or kris) can challenge for a drivers title in mini's first year. I think Kris and Dani are two of the most talented competitive drivers right now, and I think Kris will challenge for a win or maybe two on loose surface events, and Dani will certainly put up a fight on the tarmac rounds.
The Manufacturers title I think for Mini is also out of reach, not because of lack of competitiveness from the car or the drivers, but because of the sheer skill of consistency from Loeb and Hirvonen.
Speaking of which...

Hirvonen- Citroen havent hired him to risk ending Loebs reign, have they? He is there to score manufacturer points, and if Loeb has a crash/flat tyre/whatever and is out of contention for a rally win, Hirvonen will be there to pick up as many manufacturer points for the team. This will be his only chance to take a win, and if Loeb has no bad luck or silly mistakes, Hirvonen will not take a single rally win next year. That I am sure of.

Loeb- He's stayed with the same team that is completely willing to be in the championship, and who are well up for spending insane amounts of money on their cars and resources. He will once again have the best car in the championship and once again have a clear number two driver to assist his continious reign.



What does this mean for next years championship?

Unless Mini pull some insane magic tricks out of the hat, Citroen will walk away with another Manufacturers title, but this time, its on a plate.

And the drivers championship? Well...Loeb won when there were other good drivers competing with him. He is an 8 times champion and the most successful driver the sport has ever seen(Although IMO far from the best - he will always be behind KKK in my book) and he has won his more recent championships with four other very fast and talented drivers competing with him.

Now...He doesnt even have any competition.

Bottom line is, if Ford pulls out, Citroen have won the drivers and manufacturers titles.
But this time, however, we dont even have to watch to find this out.

And NOS/FIA wonders why WRC is losing its popularity?.... :s mokin:

[bennizw]

Why thank you Hartusvuori, I made that video :)

[OldF]

Two videos; Journalist faces death with Latvala, and a peak into M-Sport.
- Har du tenkt til å ta livet av meg eller? - tema - Dagbladet.no (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/12/09/tema/bil/rally/motorsport/19071144/)

Nothing interesting said, just a couple basic facts; M-Sport got 220+ employees, and use 1000 [man]hours to build a wrc car. And 4500gbp for an upright..

Andreas didn’t looked as scared as this guy.

Japan Harri-Rovanpera Japanese-tennisstar. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpmSnnRf9Nw)

JTS: “Full speed”
HR: “Full Speed?”
HR: “Not yet but quite fast”
JTS: “Quite fast”

[noel157]

I had a thought before(It hurt, yes :) ) ....Out of the top 5 drivers currently in the WRC.

Seb Ogier- Has a development year in front of him with VW, so he will be out of contention for the world drivers championship.

Jari Matti- We are waiting for confirmation of ford staying in WRC. And lets face the facts, its not really looking all that good :(

Petter Solberg- Understandably, he has grown impatient with being a private driver and competing with manufacturers who are much better equipped than him. He deserves a manufacturer drive than anyone else. Ford will have a spare couple of seats for him and chris, but....if ford pull out...there will be no seat for him, and no place in the 2012 championship :(

Mini-
Thinking realistically, I dont think either one of them(dani or kris) can challenge for a drivers title in mini's first year. I think Kris and Dani are two of the most talented competitive drivers right now, and I think Kris will challenge for a win or maybe two on loose surface events, and Dani will certainly put up a fight on the tarmac rounds.
The Manufacturers title I think for Mini is also out of reach, not because of lack of competitiveness from the car or the drivers, but because of the sheer skill of consistency from Loeb and Hirvonen.
Speaking of which...

Hirvonen- Citroen havent hired him to risk ending Loebs reign, have they? He is there to score manufacturer points, and if Loeb has a crash/flat tyre/whatever and is out of contention for a rally win, Hirvonen will be there to pick up as many manufacturer points for the team. This will be his only chance to take a win, and if Loeb has no bad luck or silly mistakes, Hirvonen will not take a single rally win next year. That I am sure of.

Loeb- He's stayed with the same team that is completely willing to be in the championship, and who are well up for spending insane amounts of money on their cars and resources. He will once again have the best car in the championship and once again have a clear number two driver to assist his continious reign.



What does this mean for next years championship?

Unless Mini pull some insane magic tricks out of the hat, Citroen will walk away with another Manufacturers title, but this time, its on a plate.

And the drivers championship? Well...Loeb won when there were other good drivers competing with him. He is an 8 times champion and the most successful driver the sport has ever seen(Although IMO far from the best - he will always be behind KKK in my book) and he has won his more recent championships with four other very fast and talented drivers competing with him.

Now...He doesnt even have any competition.

Bottom line is, if Ford pulls out, Citroen have won the drivers and manufacturers titles.
But this time, however, we dont even have to watch to find this out.

And NOS/FIA wonders why WRC is losing its popularity?.... :s mokin:

Ford or not Latvala will still offer a challenge next season.

[tfp]

Ford or not Latvala will still offer a challenge next season.

I hope so, JML will be FAST next year.

[N.O.T]

he was fast this year as well...didn't change much though.

[Allyc85]

You can only drive as fast as the car ;)

[Plan9]

Also Mini will be hurting Ford or whatever they call the operation next year, in terms of results (Kris will not crash as much) and commercially as I think Prodrive can pick up some of the BP/Castrol money that may have gone to M-Sport if Ford leave the sport officially. I am also yet to be convinced that Mini will do anything less than a full season next year. Citroen have the Manufacturer title in the bag alright. There will also be no parity between Mikko and Seb.

[janvanvurpa]

Two videos; Journalist faces death with Latvala, and a peak into M-Sport.
- Har du tenkt til å ta livet av meg eller? - tema - Dagbladet.no (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/12/09/tema/bil/rally/motorsport/19071144/)

Nothing interesting said, just a couple basic facts; M-Sport got 220+ employees, and use 1000 [man]hours to build a wrc car. And 4500gbp for an upright..

Faaaen videon funkar ej härborta i Rallyvärldens mesta U-land.

Regarding the GBP4500 fort a upright....I make motorsport parts and including suspension and know manufacture times and costs...
I see a guy in UK making 100% CNC machined versions of Fords Group A alloy uprights which are done today, and in short series----and that is always the biggest factor in final price----and these sell for one tenth .
M-sprout would say ''Whaaaaaaaaaa! wha! we have development costs!!Whääääää!!!!'' Poor baby. You are cynically inflating prices by huge factors BECAUSE YOU CAN.

Even if the paying customers wanted to use a home made all CNC version, very easy with CCM and CNC'----- they couldn't anyway as it is not the homologated part...Got to pay 10-15 times what a short run part should cost cause that's the rules.

Now we see the violence inherent in the system! He's oppressing me!

[Rallyper]

even the group N3 Fiestas of the 05 - 06 version had lower front ball bearing (hope you understand what part I mean) for a cost of about 130 Euros in sweden. For the Clio the cost was about 8 Euros. Kind of difference when gread are your motivation.

[janvanvurpa]

even the group N3 Fiestas of the 05 - 06 version had lower front ball bearing (hope you understand what part I mean) for a cost of about 130 Euros in sweden. For the Clio the cost was about 8 Euros. Kind of difference when gread are your motivation.

kulled ? bärarm?

There's a thousand parts and theyäre all equally insane and the homologation process is 'arranged' so you must use the fabriks delar with the number '9094398' or you can be protested and excluded. for example allot 'bell' or 'hat' for disc,..
Under 7 minutes in the lathe ( i svarv), under 3 minutes in the mill for the holes, (i fräs) cirka USD 22 in material for the OLD school ones I make (djupare) for Sierra Cosworth.

Hur fan should that cost 370 Engleski Pounds Sterling?
Hutlös dom djävlar är.
Först mot väggen när.........ooops!

[sollitt]

The prices applied by these outfits are outrageous but to be fair, M-Sport haven't got this on their own. I recall when building replica Almera F2 cars in the 90's the price of parts from NME were incomprehensible. As an agent for TTE for 8 or 9 years, they were equally so.

[OldF]

and use 1000 [man]hours to build a wrc car.

That’s double compared to Honda Civic R3.

Jas Motorsport (http://www.jasmotorsport.com/en/InfoIm.aspx?Id=98&Aut=88) Honda Civic R3 Case History



And 4500gbp for an upright..

Renault Clio R3 upright = 150 €
Skoda Fabia R2 upright = 315 €

Of course the price is lower for manufacturing bigger amounts of parts and the set-up costs can be divided into a larger number of parts made, but comparing the prices for uprights between Clio R3 or Fabia R2 comapred to Fiesta WRC, I don’t see how that’s justified.

Set-up costs = developing / desinging the part, programming the CNC lathe, admistration costs for sourcing the material and making the order, transportation, warehouse cost when receiving and moving the material in-house, admistration cost in the warehouse, admistration cost for updating inventory, share of the IT costs, share of the facility costs, planning the manufacturing (also other parts using the same resources such as the lathe etc.), receiving the order from the customer, preparing the shipment to customer inculding administartion work and work at the warehouse, etc.

[Plan9]

I would be interested to know if Ford withdraws; would it actually help Paddon get an SWRC seat if Malcolm has to have a fire sale of cars if M-Sport runs out of money? Could it become a buyers market?????

[Rallyper]

kulled ? bärarm?

There's a thousand parts and theyäre all equally insane and the homologation process is 'arranged' so you must use the fabriks delar with the number '9094398' or you can be protested and excluded. for example allot 'bell' or 'hat' for disc,..
Under 7 minutes in the lathe ( i svarv), under 3 minutes in the mill for the holes, (i fräs) cirka USD 22 in material for the OLD school ones I make (djupare) for Sierra Cosworth.

Hur fan should that cost 370 Engleski Pounds Sterling?
Hutlös dom djävlar är.
Först mot väggen när.........ooops!

Kulbult, it was.

[AMSS]

Lot`s of things seem to cause grey hair at Ford at the moment, firts the deal for the next 5 years was basically done already after Neste rally, than there were some big managment changes and everything started from scratsch again( at this time already also the Ogier deal to Ford was basically clear BUT without the official signature)than again things looked really good and a continuance with Ford was again close before the first deadline 09.12 but now again the messups with the TV rights owners caused a dealy in (or hopefully just a delay) the signing for the upcoming years.
At the moment I am not aware of the situation but for the sake of the sport let`s all hope Ford as a manufactorer will continue!

[Arwel Davies]

With Petter testing a Fiesta this week would that be a strong indication that Ford are in for next year?

[bassist]

With Petter testing a Fiesta this week would that be a strong indication that Ford are in for next year?


That would be fantastic news !! Where was he testing?

[Fly_Half]

According to Planetmarcus it's a done deal already:

PLANETEMARCUS.COM | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/PLANETEMARCUS)

[mm1]

Reading between lines in autosport.com it seems that the deal is done. That would be fantastic.

[AndyRAC]

It's all well and good wanting Ford to stay - if they're putting in less finance than before then they can't realistically expect too much success, can they?

Maybe their motto should be " It's the taking part, not the winning...."

[YankWRC]

Was happy to hear Petter would be testing. Sounds pretty done to me as well according to the Autosport text. I am hopeful that it means Ford is staying but time will tell. Petter just wants a factory ride, the left over money from Mikko is more than enough for Petter to be happy. In fact I think Petter would sacrifice money for a factory ride at this point.

The whole CSI joke was a big hit in my mind. Why would Ford commit to the WRC if the commercial body fell under? I understand the promotion in places like the UK for the WRC may not be as good as it could be, but if it fell away completely, Ford would have wasted money. I am happy the FiA has decided to make sure the company does not fail. Perhaps the FiA reassured Ford they were committed to keeping the WRC around and Ford gave M-Sport the green light to test Solberg in preperation for 2012 while the fine details are sorted? Just some thoughts.

[tfp]

Apparently nothings official yet, but I really hope it is!

[Plan9]

Reading between lines in autosport.com it seems that the deal is done. That would be fantastic.
Yes and also Tanak may be able to develop as a driver with less pressure now as he will not be compared to Jari as the number 2 driver at M-Sport, although I am sure that he will be in a WRC car quite often next year one way or another.

[J.Lindstroem]

Yes and also Tanak may be able to develop as a driver with less pressure now as he will not be compared to Jari as the number 2 driver at M-Sport, although I am sure that he will be in a WRC car quite often next year one way or another.

He will drive the full season in a Fiesta Wrc, right? I thought that was already decided?

[Rallyper]

Tanak is under education so he will drive the number three car, wouldn´t he?

[cali]

Tanak is under education so he will drive the number three car, wouldn´t he?

Nothing sure yet, it's only a possibility at the moment

[Hartusvuori]

Nothing sure yet, it's only a possibility at the moment

The way I see, it's the only possibility at the moment. :-)

[J.Lindstroem]

That would make it almost like three car teams. Three competetive drivers in Ford and Citroen. Even if Nassir is there because of the money, he is still a great driver!

[Juha_Koo]

Even if Nassir is there because of the money, he is still a great driver!

Maybe not the greatest, but yes, I agree too. Atleast very spectacular, that one jump in NORF Rannankylä shakedown, bloody hell!

[Hartusvuori]

Maybe not the greatest, but yes, I agree too. Atleast very spectacular, that one jump in NORF Rannankylä shakedown, bloody hell!

He didn't hold down at Himos' JN jump (https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/40964_424342313929_697073929_4664927_1195093_n.jpg ) either... At Rannankylä he was very spectacular too (Honza's gallery, pic. 91 (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=755&startpos=0&fseason=&fcat=9&fauthor=&ftxt=#))

[jcatanho]

Yes and also Tanak may be able to develop as a driver with less pressure now as he will not be compared to Jari as the number 2 driver at M-Sport, although I am sure that he will be in a WRC car quite often next year one way or another.

I believe the biggest pressure it's not so much to be compared with JMLatvala but the fact that as a factory driver he must deliver results in every round of the WRC. With only two cars allowed to score points for each constructor the margin for errors is very narrow. IMHO a young and talented driver like Tanak must have room to make some mistakes in order to became a better pilot. In a Junior team there is much more room for those mistakes.

[YankWRC]

Agreed, I think that Ott would find the most pressure having to deliver time and time again. No dobt the kid is fast, but some time at the junior team or even a third car would do him some much good. I look forward to seeing what it is he can do in a WRC car over the course of the year.

[HarriK]

Ford extends World Rally Championship participation with new two-year agreement with M-Sport (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/899-ford-extends-world-rally-championship-participation-with-new-two-year-agreement-with-m-sport-)

[J4MIE]

Hmmmmm maybe I will have to make sure I will get to a WRC event next year now....

[Motorsportfun]

Close this thread!!!!!! :D

[Miika]

With the Abu Dhabi money leaving the house, will they be like Mini with no proper sponsor next year?

[Berzs]

Ford World Rally Team

[Hartusvuori]

With the Abu Dhabi money leaving the house, will they be like Mini with no proper sponsor next year?

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/images/stories/25741.jpg

[Miika]

Yes, the Ford stickers are still on it. Actually what I should have asked is will Ford replace the missing Abu Dhabi money by upgrading their commitment, or will it be just like before, minus the Abu Dhabi money (= smaller budget).

[AndyRAC]

Yes, the Ford stickers are still on it. Actually what I should have asked is will Ford replace the missing Abu Dhabi money by upgrading their commitment, or will it be just like before, minus the Abu Dhabi money (= smaller budget).

Good question.
It is good news, but I’m not getting carried away yet. Ford put the least amount of finance into their WRC effort compared to the other teams – which explains the dearth of Championship wins. Why is anything going to change??

[YankWRC]

Happy day! I was hoping for a five year deal but this is better than nothing at all for sure! Plus we get Solberg?!? Too good to be true. Now let's hope the 2012 Fiesta is done proper.

[dimviii]

Good for the sport! Hope to be more competetive next year.

[N.O.T]

the livery got better without the abu-dhabi though. Its good news the ford continues but we have to wait and see if their support goes into the car or in wilsons pocket to sponsor his son.

[YankWRC]

I am starting to think that perhaps the two year deal was not longer because of the extra cash flow Ford is going to add. If a title sponsor like Abu Dhabi would have been present, perhaps a longer deal would have been signed? Perhaps Ford went with just two years so they didn't have to eat the money if no sponsorship was found by 2013? Speculation on part I suppose.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Citroen have allso 2012 - 2013 deal. Maybe they are watching eatch others, that what are doing.

[Jordib]

It's time to change the name of this thread...

[driveace]

So what do we know about,a private team by M Sport,and will Wilson Jnr,and Henning have a drive in a Ford next year?

[OldF]

IMO it would be better to continue the discussion about Ford and Petter in the Ford WRT (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/149821-ford-wrt.html) thread. This thread is history for at least two years.

[N.O.T]

yes currently we have 3 threads on the same subject...

[Sulland]

The good thing of Ford putting a hand on the M-Sport wheel, is that money hopefully plays a smaller part, and talent the biggest part.

In Citroen the rallyteam costs a lot of resourses and money. Goal number 1: Win
M-Sport goal number 1: to make money

I think Ford has seen this, and did something.

[N.O.T]

I think Ford has seen this, and did something.

the situation was the same the years before 2012...but nothing changed much.

[pete c]

Wont change much until Ford realize that Citroen spend a hell of a lot of money to consistently win.

[Nornbugger]

The good thing of Ford putting a hand on the M-Sport wheel, is that money hopefully plays a smaller part, and talent the biggest part.

In Citroen the rallyteam costs a lot of resourses and money. Goal number 1: Win
M-Sport goal number 1: to make money

I think Ford has seen this, and did something.

yeah Einstein, damn them for keeping solvent.........

[N.O.T]

In Citroen the rallyteam costs a lot of resourses and money. Goal number 1: Win
M-Sport goal number 1: to make money


Well i think citroens No1 goal is also to make money they just use a different way to achieve this than M-sport.

[johunn]

Well i think citroens No1 goal is also to make money they just use a different way to achieve this than M-sport.
Citroen's main goal is to make money by putting its resources behind Citroen WRT which is their advertising medium. Best selling point is winning rallies. Now M-Sports main goal is to be profitable and for that they also need to sell their rally cars to privateers which means they are not able to focus 100% on Fords goal of winning and advertising road cars. So basically Citroen does everything in house while Ford is outsourcing. M-Sport is just a company that is known for building good rally cars but it is hard to keep focus in a team when there is 8 of your cars rallying at once. I know that each vehicle has it's own service crew etc. but still the management of the team needs to juggle between keeping Ford and the privateers happy.

[noel157]

Citroen's main goal is to make money by putting its resources behind Citroen WRT which is their advertising medium. Best selling point is winning rallies. Now M-Sports main goal is to be profitable and for that they also need to sell their rally cars to privateers which means they are not able to focus 100% on Fords goal of winning and advertising road cars. So basically Citroen does everything in house while Ford is outsourcing. M-Sport is just a company that is known for building good rally cars but it is hard to keep focus in a team when there is 8 of your cars rallying at once. I know that each vehicle has it's own service crew etc. but still the management of the team needs to juggle between keeping Ford and the privateers happy.

If M-Sport can't keep focus then they will continue to have problems. Surely Ford/Odel should demand/have demanded that the M1 team are run properly, totally separate from customer cars- Ford WRT comes first and them M-Sport WRT. Can't be that hard, no?

[bretddog]

We can't really compare M-Sport to Citroen. The manufacturer is the only one who has the sizable revenue loop-back generated from the marketing strategies to be able to put up the money needed to make a true competitive challenge.

Ford's (acceptable) target can not be more than "to be perceived capable of winning". For this you need a certain win strike rate, and only hopefully the random titles a few years apart. Then to drum the competitiveness-mantra on each rally. You don't need more than that for the budget to pay back in image and sales from the general public. The point is I think this is pretty cheap for Ford, as M-Sport is likely generating enough revenue internally. So they don't have the requirement to win titles, then what can we expect..

But for next year they need to make changes if they even want to match this year's performance. Otherwise it will be a drastically humiliating season.

It's boring to look at the same issue unfixed for season after season. They need more from the engine. Otherwise I think the Fiesta is quite good.

[Allyc85]

Funny how its always the engine that is the problem on this forum ;)

It could never be the diffs, brakes suspension or weight distrabution could it ;)

Unless someone has some proof!

[Rallyper]

I think Ford´s strategy maybe pays off better than the huge sum of money Citroen is putting in their WRC team. Because Ford is also winning rallies and can promote on that for a great less sum of money...

[bretddog]

Funny how its always the engine that is the problem on this forum ;)

It could never be the diffs, brakes suspension or weight distrabution could it ;)

Unless someone has some proof!
Well this has been voiced from both drivers and people with inside knowledge. Also stage times/splits consistently slower over just about any surface, and specially which surface they are stronger vs weaker gives this away. If you look in detail which rallies M-Sport has won over the last 3 years, and how, it can tell you a lot.

[Bobcat]

I think Ford´s strategy maybe pays off better than the huge sum of money Citroen is putting in their WRC team. Because Ford is also winning rallies and can promote on that for a great less sum of money...
The huge problem is if Ford is winning only rallies but isn't winning championships.

[AndyRAC]

The huge problem is if Ford is winning only rallies but isn't winning championships.

They don't have a great record of winning Championships - in fact to be blunt, their record is extremely poor.

[olschl]

I just don't understand everyone's anger at Ford. They have consistently been a part of the WRC for many, many years with other manufacturers coming and going. Obviously Ford is satisfied with the results they are getting or they wouldn't continue to put money into the program, especially in these tough economic times. For me, my disappointment is with the FIA in not focusing on regulations that allow more manufacturers to become part of the WRC. Piss and moan about Ford all you want but without them, these last 5 years would have been much, much worse. For one, I appreciate there willingness to put forth the effort they do to keep a foothold in the WRC. A true underdog story and one I will be looking forward to watching in 2012.

[amilk]

I just don't understand everyone's anger at Ford. They have consistently been a part of the WRC for many, many years with other manufacturers coming and going. Obviously Ford is satisfied with the results they are getting or they wouldn't continue to put money into the program, especially in these tough economic times. For me, my disappointment is with the FIA in not focusing on regulations that allow more manufacturers to become part of the WRC. Piss and moan about Ford all you want but without them, these last 5 years would have been much, much worse. For one, I appreciate there willingness to put forth the effort they do to keep a foothold in the WRC. A true underdog story and one I will be looking forward to watching in 2012.

+1

[phando]

Well said!

[BDunnell]

I just don't understand everyone's anger at Ford. They have consistently been a part of the WRC for many, many years with other manufacturers coming and going. Obviously Ford is satisfied with the results they are getting or they wouldn't continue to put money into the program, especially in these tough economic times. For me, my disappointment is with the FIA in not focusing on regulations that allow more manufacturers to become part of the WRC. Piss and moan about Ford all you want but without them, these last 5 years would have been much, much worse. For one, I appreciate there willingness to put forth the effort they do to keep a foothold in the WRC. A true underdog story and one I will be looking forward to watching in 2012.

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. However, one has to wonder why Ford must be such an underdog. With the occasional exception, its motorsport record in the last 30 years has not been impressive.

[dimviii]

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. However, one has to wonder why Ford must be such an underdog. With the occasional exception, its motorsport record in the last 30 years has not been impressive.

Thats the problem exactly,and thats they said plenty of mates including me.Don t think that anybody said to leave Ford wrc field.

[noel157]

It's not anger, more passion and a need to see more competitive rallying. Hopefully we'll see that.

[Brother John]

It is so easy, let the manufacturer championship disappear and the driver who wins the championship with their team, that brands are also manufact champion.
More teams with more good and cheaper cars in the WRC and more fun for the fans and not always the same winners.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Or let´s go back to the "original series" and forget drivers championships.