Ford ends M-Sport run in WRC?

[Mitch555]

I thought Citroen just watch the weather at the end of the news on TV? :s

Even people in local rallies have taken the weather a little more seriously than that...

[Barreis]

It was a joke probably.

[N.O.T]

It was a joke probably.

unfortunately it wasn't....

[Bobcat]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/128975-news-rumours-part-ii-350.html#post980072

[janvanvurpa]

Even people in local rallies have taken the weather a little more seriously than that...

Yeah, on our regional rallys here in the NW of USA people would come up to me and --I swear it actually occured---bend over and ask my right knee "Oi!, John's knee, think it's gonna rain? How soon?"
I hadn't noticed but my right knee was ripped up and operated on several times in the 20 years I raced moto-cross and some of the boys had noticed that sometimes I limped more when rain was coming, so that would ask me, they'd ask my knee--even when I was talking to others...
It worked! "'bout 45-50 minutes" i said once and sure enough 50 minutes later it started raining... Big eyes all round.

Can't do it anymore, got an all stainless knee 2 years ago.

[Bobcat]

Wilson murehtii vain Ford-sopimuksesta - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/11/1432846/wilson-murehtii-vain-ford-sopimuksesta)

[N.O.T]

MTV3 once more a tribute to garbage...i have not seen a media that posts inacurate info every 10 seconds so far....MTV3 beat that..they were the ones saying ogier/hirvonen swap was a done deal and now they say Ogier is gone from ford...

:yawn:

[Allyc85]

The b.s. in rally news is worse than f1 it seems! Not long now till we find out what really happens!

[Hartusvuori]

I had to check how that article translates into English through Google as you seem to be seeing too much red. Wilson is just playing with words as he can't say anything else. He needs a confirmation from Ford, yes, and by that time Hirvonen might be gone, yes, and Ogier too, perhaps yes. He doesn't say Ogier is gone from Ford. I don't say MTV3.fi is your number one news provider, but you've got to take it more easy. And Ogier/Hirvonen swap news has never originated from Finnish media, they have been quoted here, but not originated. And if you would know how little space rallying news got in Finnish news, you would get the perspective right. It's little, very little.

[Miika]

The new Ford+M-Sport deal must be settled and signed before sealing/signing the driver deals. So until that, only guessing who drives what and even guessing about how many seats there is to fill for 2012.

[Bobcat]

Große Sorgen in der WM :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/11/10/grosse-sorgen-in-der-wm/index.html)


Auch der angebliche Rückzug von Hauptsponsor Abu-Dhabi dürfte die Lage von Wilson nicht unbedingt verbessern.

[wwbroe]

That doesn't sound so good, does it? Looks like loosing Abu Dhabi sponsorship will not do much good either. The fact that Ford still didn't comfirm their engagement for next year looks like becoming a serious problem.

[bassist]

I wonder if the decision is down to the outcome 0f the drivers championship? No pressure then Mikko!!!

[Plan9]

I think it is too late for the pressure to be a factor here bassist.

Also looks bad for the red British team. No testing for Monte Carlo or Sweden conditions. Life is getting more difficult!

[Francis44]

I dont want a Citroen parade next year.

[bassist]

I think it is too late for the pressure to be a factor here bassist.

Also looks bad for the red British team. No testing for Monte Carlo or Sweden conditions. Life is getting more difficult!

Oh well, it`s curtains now, for Mikko, and The Mini`s ! So, will Ford be there next year or not??

[pete c]

well i guess the question is really, if Ford do pull the pin and leave the WRC then what will Citroen do.
they have already said that if Ford leave then they would as well, because you can't run a championship with only one committed
manufacturer.
guess only time will tell

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Hirvonen says it’s the end of the road (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/hirvonen_says_its_the_end_of_the_road/)


Ford driver Mikko Hirvonen has confirmed that he is unlikely to start again on the Rally GB – and hinted that his future should be confirmed within the next couple of weeks.

The Finn was more reticent when asked about his future, with intense speculation linking him to Sebastien Ogier’s seat at Citroen.

“There’s still an important job for the team to do here,” said Hirvonen. “Then we’ll see next week what is going to happen.”

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Hirvonen’s title dream is over (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/hirvonens_title_dream_is_over/)


The incident brings to an end a remarkable run of consistency for Hirvonen, on what is likely to be his last rally for Ford.

[sete]

my question is.what will the Ford drivers do if M-sport leave the wrc after this season? Ogier probably stays in Citroen-so no place for Mikko.
J.M.Latvala--goes to VW motorsport ????
M.Hirvonen-VW motosport ???maybe there should be a seat at škoda motorsport if J.Hanninen leaves it and Neuville stays in 207 S2000 with kronos
K. Al Quassimi-with his(abu dhabi) money he can go everywhere
so its only my opinion what if

[tfp]

my question is.what will the Ford drivers do if M-sport leave the wrc after this season? Ogier probably stays in Citroen-so no place for Mikko.
J.M.Latvala--goes to VW motorsport ????
M.Hirvonen-VW motosport ???maybe there should be a seat at škoda motorsport if J.Hanninen leaves it and Neuville stays in 207 S2000 with kronos
K. Al Quassimi-with his(abu dhabi) money he can go everywhere
so its only my opinion what if

Rename the sport as "citroen rally championship". 1 new manufacturer next year isn't exactly a step forward if one manufacturer leaves!

[GigiGalliNo1]

If Ott Tanak goes to Ford WRT in 2012, what's left of Markko Martins Estonian Rally Team?!

[Juha_Koo]

Has this been brought up in here?

According to new Finnish TV show "Motorsport", Abu Dhabi has left Ford/M-Sport. Therefore they are eight million dollars short on 2012 budget...

[Barreis]

I don't like M-Sport.

[bassist]

Will 8 Fords in the top ten on WRGB convince Ford to continue in the championship?

[bassist]

Will 8 Fords in the top ten on WRGB convince Ford to continue in the championship?

With!

[sete]

Has this been brought up in here?

According to new Finnish TV show "Motorsport", Abu Dhabi has left Ford/M-Sport. Therefore they are eight million dollars short on 2012 budget...

is this a reason while Quassimi dont start in wales?

[tolis]

No, Al Qassimi made an operation. That's why.

[Juha_Koo]

is this a reason while Quassimi dont start in wales?

No, like tolis said, he was in surgery/recovering from it. He had some leg problems which were caused by that heavy roll in Japan 2010.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Abu Dhabi news is old from Rally Australia.... but still... wonder if Ford will continue? with M-Sport? or they can still run M-Sport cars (Fiesta) without FORD backing? 2011 cars in 2012... if they have no money for development...

[Bobcat]

Will 8 Fords in the top ten on WRGB convince Ford to continue in the championship?
Or that "Latvala had the most stage wins this year."

Latvala : 68 wins
Loeb : 65 wins
Ogier : 57 wins

[White Sauron]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford ran their official works rally programme separately from M-Sport, the british squad being just their Customers.

[N.O.T]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford ran their official works rally programme separately from M-Sport, the british squad being just their Customers.

that would be very nice for the sport...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Then M-sport will understand what a "customer" is haha

[Martin Luijk]

Maybe it's good for the sport Hirvonen did not became the world champion. If he became the world champion, Ford did have a good reason to stop their WRC program. But with the pace Latvala set the second half of the season, and the solution for the early problems with the Fiesta, Ford have a great change to became 2012's World Champion.

[Sulland]

Lets say M-Sport are out, and Ford goes touring cars, then WRC will have 1,5 factories, if Mini will do fewer rallies than the calendar.

What then?

[Bobcat]

Lets say M-Sport are out, and Ford goes touring cars, then WRC will have 1,5 factories, if Mini will do fewer rallies than the calendar.

What then?
The end of the WRC's reputation as the serious championship?

[Bobcat]

Ford-pomo spekuloinneista: Olisi ollut vaikea tilanne - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/11/1437704/ford-pomo-spekuloinneista-olisi-ollut-vaikea-tilanne)

[Barreis]

What does it say?

[Nornbugger]

What does it say?


He said they had hired a Spaniard to crash into Loeb to let Mikko win the championship, also that they are sorry, they tried to cancel the hit but with poor mobile coverage in the valleys they didnt get too and that he is sorry to Mr Loeb for the unnessessary bump this morning. He said something else about it being bad that Latvala got to win as maybe he'll want to do it more often now.

[tfp]

What does it say?

The registration for entry next year expires 12th of next month...In other words, if ford havent signed by that date, its bye-bye ford! :(

[dimviii]

if Ford doesn t continue at 2012,What will do Ogier?....

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport run the cars like Kronos/Citroën in 2006.

[tolis]

if Ford doesn t continue at 2012....
To pisteueis auto poy grafeis? :D
Do you really believe that?

[N.O.T]

even if ford doesn't continue M-sport can still run the fiesta WRC cars.... they just will not have any budget the manufacturer team...privateers will still be able to enter in the WRC with a fiesta wrc.

but i doubt Ford will leave the sport....

the real point is to increase their budget or do something with Wilson and his budget allocation tactics.

[White Sauron]

or do something with Wilson and his budget allocation tactics.

That's why a wise move for a mig manufacturer like them, with their own sport department (is Jost Capito still there?), would be to run their own programme. Full control of budget, money and efforts not spread over numerous customers. And in that situation M-Sport might run their client program, and from that point of view Malcolm will be able to focus on his business... A win-win solution!

[Barreis]

Yes, Wilson made a fortune of this ford deal. But if we remember fiesta s1600, it was disaster when ran by ford factory.

[dimviii]

i don t believe it,but with the current situation all over Europe you never can be sure for something.Just see Mini/bmw/prodrive last days news,for something 100% confirmed,and a very wealthy manufacture behind.
Of course M-sport can run the team,but we didn t ask if Malcolm wants to spent some decades of millions to do it.This time these millions are going to be from his pocket.Basically not exactly his pocket,lets say the money from clients like Ostberg,Kuipers,etc which money couldn t find the way into his pocket,if Ford didn t participate at wrc last 20+ years....
Malcolm is here for money.And if Ford stopped the wrc programm,i doubt if Malcolm would like to pay the fat Ogiers salary,even if M-sport will continue privately at wrc for 2012.

[dimviii]

That's why a wise move for a mig manufacturer like them, with their own sport department (is Jost Capito still there?), would be to run their own programme. Full control of budget, money and efforts not spread over numerous customers. And in that situation M-Sport might run their client program, and from that point of view Malcolm will be able to focus on his business... A win-win solution!

it is not a win-win for Malcolm.i doubt even for Ford.

[White Sauron]

it is not a win-win for Malcolm.i doubt even for Ford.

some arguments\supporting points, please. Otherwise it's just a contr-statement of yours against me.

[Barreis]

If they split, Malcolm won't have control over money and customers would go for factory cars (that means no more Kuipers and guys like him). Also factory ford didn't have successfuly car for about 15 years.

[Bobcat]

It’s a great way to finish the season 2011. We now need to push for the world title with Ford next year.
World Rally Championship - News - WRC wrap: Latvala ends victory drought with win (http://www.wrc.com/news/wrc-wrap-latvala-ends-victory-drought-with-win/?fid=15789)

[White Sauron]

If they split, Malcolm won't have control over money and customers would go for factory cars (that means no more Kuipers and guys like him). Also factory ford didn't have successfuly car for about 15 years.

I didn't suggest they'd split. I said they could divide roles, like Citroen and Peugeot do in rallying/racing. The factory is responsible for the works team, while a contractor (Kronos/Oreca) helps in running the client programme. So Wilson will still get his customer money, but will be able to fully focue on the business.

[Barreis]

That means no more millions every year in Malcolm's pocket.

[dimviii]

some arguments\supporting points, please. Otherwise it's just a contr-statement of yours against me.

Look at Barreis first proper post.

[dimviii]

I didn't suggest they'd split. I said they could divide roles, like Citroen and Peugeot do in rallying/racing. The factory is responsible for the works team, while a contractor (Kronos/Oreca) helps in running the client programme. So Wilson will still get his customer money, but will be able to fully focue on the business.

Is it the same that,with the previous years for Malcolms pocket???????

[White Sauron]

Is it the same that,with the previous years for Malcolms pocket???????

Depends on how they make up the contract...

[dimviii]

Depends on how they make up the contract...

No!much more less money for him,much more less decades of millions to be clear.

[Bobcat]

Q:
What does it mean to you to take a podium on the final round when you are trying to secure funding for next year?

Henning Solberg:
I speak with sponsors all the time and I hope I get a good deal for next year. That is what I do every day now after the rally. I hope to get a good deal for next year. We will see.

Q:
Will we see you in a Ford?

Henning Solberg:
I don't think any other team can offer me that money, so I think I will stay with Ford!

[Camelopard]

Will 8 Fords in the top ten on WRGB convince Ford to continue in the championship?

Just like the good old days........................ :)

[Viking]

Q:

Q:
Will we see you in a Ford?

Henning Solberg:
I don't think any other team can offer me that money, so I think I will stay with Ford!

:D

[grugsticles]

If the Ford motor corporation pull their backing, it will just be M-Sport Abu Dhabi WRT who just happen to run Ford Festiva WRC's.

[cali]

No Abu Dhabi next year. Do you read the news here?

[Zeakiwi]

When was the last wrc rally Ford scored a one, two, three finish ?

[Hartusvuori]

When was the last wrc rally Ford scored a one, two, three finish ?

Sweden 2011.

[Xsara Fan]

Q:
Q:
Will we see you in a Ford?

Henning Solberg:
I don't think any other team can offer me that money, so I think I will stay with Ford!

Yes, Ford is cheaper than Citroen... Citroen want soooo much money.

[dimviii]

Yes, Ford is cheaper than Citroen... Citroen want soooo much money.

How much more? ie percentage(%)

[bluuford]

When Aava was driving with Citroen and when he left to Ford then the offer from ford was over 2 times cheaper.

[skarderud]

i dont know for sure, but as i had it understand, henning pays around 2 mill euros, petter is abowe 3.

[Barreis]

This's crazy to give that money for 13 long weekends.

[Nornbugger]

This's crazy to give that money for 13 long weekends.


agreed, mental money

[N.O.T]

Nothing is crazy if you can afford it....

[Barreis]

True. But must have ten times more.

[tfp]

When was the last wrc rally Ford scored a one, two, three finish ?

Rally GB:-)

[Plan9]

How much more? ie percentage(%)

It would be interesting to see a cost analysis of which car is most cost effective in terms of the price of renting a car, the tests, crew and power the car can produce in customer spec. Look at Mini, VW, Ford & Citroen.
I hear that that Mini is actually the most expensive of the three (this is based on the booklet I read on the Prodrive website and quotes that have been offered to me about the Fiesta and DS3 on here)

[grugsticles]

No Abu Dhabi next year. Do you read the news here?



Err, no. Usually skim over various threads.
Care to elaborate why? Im assuming that the Abu Dhabians finally realised a bad investment?

[AndyRAC]

Possibly – and Al Qassimi attended the F1 Grand Prix rather than RallyGB, I read, as it was more important.....

[cali]

Possibly – and Al Qassimi attended the F1 Grand Prix rather than RallyGB, I read, as it was more important.....
Qassimi had surgery

[cali]

Err, no. Usually skim over various threads.
Care to elaborate why? Im assuming that the Abu Dhabians finally realised a bad investment?

Read the news, then you don't have to ask all the time ;)
Reason is unknown yet.

[AndyRAC]

Qassimi had surgery

Sure that wasn't Al-Attiyah..??? I'm sure it was in Autosport....

[Hartusvuori]

Sure that wasn't Al-Attiyah..??? I'm sure it was in Autosport....

Don't know about Nasser, but M-sport's newsletter before Rally GB wrote: "With Khalid Al Qassimi unavailable due to commitments at the Abu Dhabi GP, Evgeny Novikov and Denis Giraudet will take over the third Fiesta RS WRC for Team Abu Dhabi."

[Barreis]

Novikov show nothing this year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Looks like Wilson's Priority is NOT what drivers to have in 2012... but it is to SECURE FORD in the championship!

Gee, this is good news!? What else????

World Rally Championship - News - EXCLUSIVE Q&A: Malcolm Wilson (http://wrc.com/news/exclusive-qa-malcolm-wilson/?fid=15808)

[Xsara Fan]

How much more? ie percentage(%)

40-50%

[dimviii]

40-50%
thanks Xsara Fan

[tfp]

Looks like Wilson's Priority is NOT what drivers to have in 2012... but it is to SECURE FORD in the championship!

Gee, this is good news!? What else????

World Rally Championship - News - EXCLUSIVE Q&A: Malcolm Wilson (http://wrc.com/news/exclusive-qa-malcolm-wilson/?fid=15808)

Er, what exactly did he mean in the interview when he said "Our emotional moments" ....?
Does anyone else have anything on this?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Ouch! I wonder even with Ford, if Ford continue on with the WRC and M-Sport.. Will or could they then afford Ogier?!

I think Tanak has a higher rate of joining JML and I can see this happening! I actually want it to happen!

Ogier to VW..

[gravelman]

Er, what exactly did he mean in the interview when he said "Our emotional moments" ....?
Does anyone else have anything on this?

Does anyone else take this to mean shouting bloody murder at each other.

[tfp]

Does anyone else take this to mean shouting bloody murder at each other.

Thats what I was thinking.
Malcolm says (something along the lines of) "I want him to come back and say a proper goodbye"
Did anyone who attended rally gb see him around the time of the podium celebrations? Or at any other time after the crash?

[Juha_Koo]

Does anyone else take this to mean shouting bloody murder at each other.

Definately not. I'm guessing a sad moment after the championship was lost and both Malcolm and Mikko knew that it was going to be the end of a long road together. Most likely Mikko (Jouhki) had some sort of deadline for Malcolm to present Ford's commitment to 2012 WRC and when he couldn't do it, Mikko's deal option expired. Why on earth you think there would have been quarrel?

Now this is getting interesting because Malcolm is saying he cannot afford Ogier. What the hell is going on? JML and Petter in Ford while Ogier and Henning put up a franco-norwegian private Ford team? :D

[Arwel Davies]

The interesting thing is the Ogier had 2 years on his contract left with Citroen. Original rumour was that Ford bought him out of it now. Now it seems this is not the case as Ford are'nt even committed to next year so either he left by mutual consent or Citroen must have paid him off. If it was the latter then thats a big move to make to do that to someone who has the potential to win the Championship.

[Allyc85]

Thats what I was thinking.
Malcolm says (something along the lines of) "I want him to come back and say a proper goodbye"
Did anyone who attended rally gb see him around the time of the podium celebrations? Or at any other time after the crash?

Yea he was there to congratulate JML at the finish line :)

[dimviii]

The interesting thing is the Ogier had 2 years on his contract left with Citroen. Original rumour was that Ford bought him out of it now. Now it seems this is not the case as Ford are'nt even committed to next year so either he left by mutual consent or Citroen must have paid him off. If it was the latter then thats a big move to make to do that to someone who has the potential to win the Championship.

Ogier thought that he was faster/better than Loeb.That was of course not true as Loeb showed to everybody at last rallies,even without help of Ogier who had an exit once again.while his role was supporting to Loeb.
Ogier also forget that he is a Citroen employe,with his refuse to help Loeb.Latvala wasn t stupid to do.Thats why Latvala will have the support of Malcolm,while at Ogier they show the exit door.When i saw that Frederic Banzet anounced the Loeb extra 2 year contract,it was clear that Quesnel together with Ogier had f@cked up everything.
I am not surprised with all these things happened.Hope only Ogier didn t destroy his career,because he is very valuable at wrc.
Some times you have to be patience.

[havk]

Latvala didn't have chances (maybe mathematical) when he was helping Mikko.And the diffrence between Loeb and Ogier was just few points and both had real chances for the title. It's totally different situation when you have to help. In new contract Loeb is no.1 and it's against Ogier contract. For Ogier is no point in wasting 2 years helping Loeb.. As far as I know Ogier didn't refuse to help Loeb. In Australia he give a position to Loeb. Ogier had his chance to get title in Australia but he crashed.

[Jamie Love]

Ford have just started listing WRC merchandise in their own website, (separate from M-sport)

I know it's a very weak sign, but hopefully it's pointing in the right direction! :)

[tfp]

The interesting thing is the Ogier had 2 years on his contract left with Citroen. Original rumour was that Ford bought him out of it now. Now it seems this is not the case as Ford are'nt even committed to next year so either he left by mutual consent or Citroen must have paid him off. If it was the latter then thats a big move to make to do that to someone who has the potential to win the Championship.

My theory on that is in Loebs contract. He made a demand that if he stayed that Ogier left at the end of the year, after all, he doesnt want any competition.
And I dont blame him. If you were organising a party, and invited 30 girls, would you invite 30 blokes aswel? Would you hell, you wouldnt want any competition ;)


Yea he was there to congratulate JML at the finish line :)
At least things here look ok then :) I wonder what Malcolm meant when he said what I quoted? :confused:

[AndyRAC]

Ford have just started listing WRC merchandise in their own website, (separate from M-sport)

I know it's a very weak sign, but hopefully it's pointing in the right direction! :)

Or maybe they'll run it in-house as a Factory team.....and let M-Sport run Ford Privateers.......

No, that won't happen.....

[driveace]

Maybe Ford will run a factory team as Citroen do and keep it ALL inhouse ,as with a satellite team as M Sport is,they are there to make a profit.If M Sport lose the "Contract",then all the workforce could be offered employment at say Boreham,as before in the 70s with the "Ford Rally Team" This would see more direct control,and all the budget put directly into the works team.

[tfp]

Or maybe they'll run it in-house as a Factory team.....and let M-Sport run Ford Privateers.......



I wish!

[jacko]

Latvala didn't have chances (maybe mathematical) when he was helping Mikko.And the diffrence between Loeb and Ogier was just few points and both had real chances for the title. It's totally different situation when you have to help. In new contract Loeb is no.1 and it's against Ogier contract. For Ogier is no point in wasting 2 years helping Loeb.. As far as I know Ogier didn't refuse to help Loeb. In Australia he give a position to Loeb. Ogier had his chance to get title in Australia but he crashed.

right words, well said!!

[Allyc85]

I wish!

Same here, but if that it is to happen then surely it wont be in 2012 :(

[Nornbugger]

Originally Posted by AndyRAC http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/146268-ford-ends-m-sport-run-wrc-30.html#post985141)
Or maybe they'll run it in-house as a Factory team.....and let M-Sport run Ford Privateers.......


I wish!

can either of you remember when, and how it went the last time Ford tried to devolope and run a car themselves?

[bopApocalypse]

can either of you remember when, and how it went the last time Ford tried to devolope and run a car themselves?

1994, Escort RS Cosworth. 2 wins (Monte Carlo, Finland), 4x 3rds. 3rd MFR points, last of those who actually competed in every round.

Certainly seems on par with M-Sport's last couple years, considering there's a lot less competition now than there was in '94.

[AndyRAC]

Funnily enough - yes, I do remember. But how long do they carry on with M-Sport and getting 'near misses'. It's only going to get harder with VW joining....

But it's not going to happen....

[Juha_Koo]

Small clues... Malcolm appearing in this interview (done after Wales) with blank shirt (or what you call that specific type?). So something (negative) happening with sponsors and/or Ford? Or then I'm just being way too sherlock-ish. :)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GLy-6tPSY

[Plan9]

It will be harder to seem cool now as Ken Block has been recalled to the states. In a way I am a bit disappointed as what he will be doing over there is not really rally, just car shows really. Doing only 6 events does show what little faith Monster had in him though.

[AndyRAC]

I’ve been reading more into the Ken Block news for next year than may be actually the case. Only 6 WRC events? But a mix of Global Rallycross and other ‘shows’. Whose choice was it?

[Motorsportfun]

Small clues... Malcolm appearing in this interview (done after Wales) with blank shirt (or what you call that specific type?). So something (negative) happening with sponsors and/or Ford? Or then I'm just being way too sherlock-ish. :)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GLy-6tPSY

Don't think, in fact, that Abu Dhabi tourism board will renew their contract...

[alleskids]

So still no commitment from Ford for 2012, and Ogier still has no new job, after been kicked out of the team were he was to be crown prince of Loeb.

[Rallyper]

Global rallycross - what is that? Local swedish, norweigan, dutch round about rallycars in a gravelpit?? Or making american 15-yearold youngster happy by flying 75 meters in a rallycar?? How could that be a world sport??

[dimviii]

So still no commitment from Ford for 2012, and Ogier still has no new job, after been kicked out of the team were he was to be crown prince of Loeb.

Did you notice Malcolms answer when he asked about the 2012 drivers? '' we saw a lot of young drivers with good pace at Wales''.....Tanak is cheaper than Ogier,and is not the first time Malcolm will choose the cheaper.

[I am evil Homer]

Bet it still gets more viewers than WRC does, whatever he does

[GigiGalliNo1]

True about Block, I don't think he will do all rounds in 2012... Other commitments with other events, "sports" and sponsorship stuff... So he'll be around but not all the way around!

It'll be JML with Tanak or Tanak an another driver. :)

[janvanvurpa]

Global rallycross - what is that? Local swedish, norweigan, dutch round about rallycars in a gravelpit?? Or making american 15-yearold youngster happy by flying 75 meters in a rallycar?? How could that be a world sport??


Simple! Same as everything in motorsport in America, hell you could say same as everything in America: Just plaster the claim all over in a multi-media campaign and claim "X-treame!!!!" and claim Wörlds Shämpionskit. And call Blockstrana "Rally GOD!!!!!"
and when 350 people show up to wander aimlessly around call it a raging success.

Hur annars?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lmfao!!

[Rallyper]

Lmfao!!

????

[noel157]

????

Laugh My Fat Ass Off

[Juha_Koo]

I wonder what Kim Vatanen is doing now with Ketomaa...

[dyfi1]

And call Blockstrana "Rally GOD!!!!!"

Hur annars?

Blockstrana.... relative of Tom Trana? ;)

[Rallyper]

Blockstrana.... relative of Tom Trana? ;)

Lmao ;)

[Plan9]

I’ve been reading more into the Ken Block news for next year than may be actually the case. Only 6 WRC events? But a mix of Global Rallycross and other ‘shows’. Whose choice was it?

Probably a combo of DC, Monster and Ford USA. I don't like the way his career is going. Even if he does more in the USA he will get confused like he did in 2010 when he had to drive 3 different cars, which lead to him doing badly in all of them. His employers need him to do X-Games and then the rest WRC. Much bigger audience and his skill level will improve more. Rally America and Global Rallycross are immature cousins of ERC!

[janvanvurpa]

Probably a combo of DC, Monster and Ford USA. I don't like the way his career is going. Even if he does more in the USA he will get confused like he did in 2010 when he had to drive 3 different cars, which lead to him doing badly in all of them. His employers need him to do X-Games and then the rest WRC. Much bigger audience and his skill level will improve more. Rally America and Global Rallycross are immature cousins of ERC!

His employers are Block and Block.

It is repeated endlessly in Fortress America™ that all that matters is promotion, results really aren't important...
Ever since I have been involved in US Rally--since 1984---there has been an endless series of "The next big thing that will save US rally....and achieve the breakthrough to huge popularity and (unspoken but understood) millions of dollars of sponsorship money flowing like cheap American beer"

The answeis always "more promotion", "TV stars guest starring". a WRC event (which we had 86/87/88 and which I did the 86 event, and by 88 we had seriously maybe 75-80 people at the "cerimonial finish"... and now "Live results".
Its such a joke on our little clubbie oriented forum Rally Anarchy - Don't Panic (http://www.rallyanarchy.com) we have a long going thread since 06 titled Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here! here:
Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here! (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?4,24930)

One of the latest things was the entry for a real nice guy from rural Maine entering Rally GB in a little Fiesta. From all the heated discussion on how he did I see we were right... You guys did notice didn't you?

The best thing Blockstrana could do to improve his skills would be to do a season in Finlands F-cup. Some of the drivers are amongst the best in the world, and there is depth in the field and nothing teaches like having 70 cars of similar spec, rather than only 2 or three behind him at most.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Simple! Same as everything in motorsport in America, hell you could say same as everything in America: Just plaster the claim all over in a multi-media campaign and claim "X-treame!!!!" and claim Wörlds Shämpionskit. And call Blockstrana "Rally GOD!!!!!"
and when 350 people show up to wander aimlessly around call it a raging success.

Hur annars?

LMFAO means Laugh My F'kn A$$ Off!

I found that hilarious about 300 people show up to wander aimlessly :) :D

[6789]

I think Ken should get a new co-driver, so many of his crashes are note related

[Bobcat]

World Rally Championship - News - Tanak wants a World Rally Car future (http://www.wrc.com/news/tanak-wants-a-world-rally-car-future/?fid=15810)

He told Wr.com: “For sure I would like to drive this type of car next year but we need to work on it, we will see. I have a good feeling at the moment and it can only get better. But my manager has to work on this [deal], I am just the driver.”

[mousti]

I think Ken should get a new co-driver, so many of his crashes are note related
Could be, Alex has no credentials on a big level in rallying.

[grugsticles]

I think Ken should get a new co-driver, so many of his crashes are note related

Pretty damn good point!
Someone experienced and yet with a similar approach to life, ie. happy go lucky. Maybe someone like Phil Mills.

[Juha_Koo]

I think Ken should get a new co-driver, so many of his crashes are note related

Yeah right, it's Gelsomino who does the notes... Errr.

The problem is that they use automatically generated notes in America and therefore Block doesn't have massive note making experience.

[Allyc85]

Pretty damn good point!
Someone experienced and yet with a similar approach to life, ie. happy go lucky. Maybe someone like Phil Mills.

Or Kaj Lindstrom ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Or Kaj Lindstrom ;)

Or Scott Martin ;) ;)

[bopApocalypse]

The problem is that the national series that has the biggest (but still practically zero) exposure uses automatically generated notes and only allows a single "notes familiarization pass" rather than proper recce in America and therefore Block doesn't have massive note making experience.

Fixed it for you. :(

[tfp]

Or Kaj Lindstrom ;)

Kaj Lindstrom :D
Happy go lucky? How about happy go-miserable bugger :laugh:
Jokes of course :D

[6789]

Yeah right, it's Gelsomino who does the notes... Errr.

The problem is that they use automatically generated notes in America and therefore Block doesn't have massive note making experience.

You're right Blocks notes are bad (not enough detail for WRC IMO), that's why he crashed in Australia because he had the corner as to fast. But in Spain it was don't cut and he did cut, so it could be Alex's delivery.

I think if he had someone experienced then they could teach and mentor him on note creation and delivery. That's my opinion, not blaming Alex for all of the mistakes but

[noel157]

Don't think we'll see Ford renewing their contract with M-Sport.

[alleskids]

It is a bit short time for Ford to start their own factory team, gather staff, engineers, and build and devellop the cars. So without a factory contract for M-Sport, there wil be nog official Ford in WRC?

[noel157]

It is a bit short time for Ford to start their own factory team, gather staff, engineers, and build and devellop the cars. So without a factory contract for M-Sport, there wil be nog official Ford in WRC?

Correct. Sad really, a long history ended. Still be M-Sport entries but nothing else.

[chris t]

is this official ?

[chris t]

what about al kalid kasimi or what ever his name is and villagra .are they planning anything for 2012

[Motorsportfun]

^^

Munchi's Ford (Villagra) will not enter WRC 2012.

[Juha_Koo]

You're right Blocks notes are bad (not enough detail for WRC IMO), that's why he crashed in Australia because he had the corner as to fast. But in Spain it was don't cut and he did cut, so it could be Alex's delivery.

Actually there wasn't "don't cut" in the notes for that corner, it was "entry 30, left four, tightens three at sign". When the car is stopped Gelsomino says something like "Awwww, tightens three at sign...don't cut." I understood it as a sarcastic remark.

[noel157]

is this official ?

No, no. Sorry just thinking outloud. Hopefully we'll hear soon what the situation is.

[Nornbugger]

Actually there wasn't "don't cut" in the notes for that corner, it was "entry 30, left four, tightens three at sign". When the car is stopped Gelsomino says something like "Awwww, tightens three at sign...don't cut." I understood it as a sarcastic remark.

listen again
WRC 2011 Rallye de Catalunya Ken Block Crash SS1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bm3l9NcfD0)

[6789]

listen again
WRC 2011 Rallye de Catalunya Ken Block Crash SS1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bm3l9NcfD0)

For sure the dust was a contributor there, as it caugh out others. But listening to the delivery of the notes before the crash to me it doesn't flow and repeating notes so many times probably doesn't help. Either way it's good for the WRC to have him run around for a few events, he would have been the biggest draw in Australia this year.

[bluuford]

listen again
WRC 2011 Rallye de Catalunya Ken Block Crash SS1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bm3l9NcfD0)

"Dont cut" was for the next right corner. Nothing for this corner.

[Nornbugger]

"Dont cut" was for the next right corner. Nothing for this corner.

oops, you are right, I'd though initially that the 1st dont cut was for the left and 2nd for the following right

[driveace]

Back to thread,will Ford be in the WRC next year in an official capacity,or will we just see M Sport as private entrants for customers ,and is JMLs contract for 2012 with M Sport or Ford

[OldF]

It is a bit short time for Ford to start their own factory team, gather staff, engineers, and build and devellop the cars. So without a factory contract for M-Sport, there wil be nog official Ford in WRC?

But what if Ford buys the WRC part from M-Sport and hire all the engineers etc. working with the development and running the WRC cars and continuing working in the same facilities. Everything would be already. Ford would have their own management for the WRC part and Malcom would manage the customer projects. For Malcom it would be to accept this or don’t have anything.

If Ford leave WRC Malcom could still continue with the customer projects but the Fiesta would be outdated in some time because I understand it it’s the manufacturer who homologates the new parts.

[OldF]

Thats what I was thinking.
Malcolm says (something along the lines of) "I want him to come back and say a proper goodbye"
Did anyone who attended rally gb see him around the time of the podium celebrations? Or at any other time after the crash?

I think Malcom meant that Mikko could visit M-Sport in Dovenby Hall and say goodbye to the whole staff. Mikko once said that he hasn’t been there so often because so tricky to go there.

[driveace]

I am sure Miko,s navigator could manage to get him to Dovenby Estate,or he could use his Sat Nav,been there 3 times and have not got lost yet.Don't see Miko would be going there now,as he is busy learning French!!!

[noel157]

Back to thread,will Ford be in the WRC next year in an official capacity,or will we just see M Sport as private entrants for customers ,and is JMLs contract for 2012 with M Sport or Ford

Think his contract is with M-Sport and only for 12 months.

It's not really looking good is it? Taking a hell of a long time and one has to wonder what's going on, if anything. Papa Wilson's body language in the interview wasn't exactly positive. We'll see.

[sollitt]

How about we wait for some actual news rather than toss uninformed negative speculation around. There's an old adage "no news is good news".

[driveace]

Quite correct ,no news is good news,but results matter to one of the worlds biggest motor manufacturers.And Citroen are running rings round Ford in the WRC,or am I seeing it wrong?

[noel157]

How about we wait for some actual news rather than toss uninformed negative speculation around. There's an old adage "no news is good news".

As opposed to tossing informed positive speculation around? There's another oxymoron.
Watch it Driveace, you'll get told off for offering an opinion. :)

[Rally Power]

Think his contract is with M-Sport and only for 12 months.

It's not really looking good is it? Taking a hell of a long time and one has to wonder what's going on, if anything. Papa Wilson's body language in the interview wasn't exactly positive. We'll see.

Things get worse if Ford oficially confirms support to Arena's WTCC programe...

We could always hope to see a private MSport entry with Latvala fighting for the drivers title, just like Vatanen did in 81 with David Sutton team.

Vatanen then became world champion, against a french* manufactureur! :D

* even if it was a french brand, Talbot wrc entry was britain based.

[HaCo]

Things get worse if Ford oficially confirms support to Arena's WTCC programe...

And it seems more and more this will happen: Ford plant mit drei Autos ab 2012 | Automobil | MOTORSPORT aktuell (http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/automobil/ford-plant-mit-drei-autos-ab-2012-4098565.html)

[AndyRAC]

And it seems more and more this will happen: Ford plant mit drei Autos ab 2012 | Automobil | MOTORSPORT aktuell (http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/automobil/ford-plant-mit-drei-autos-ab-2012-4098565.html)

Oh dear, Ford have lost the plot - the WTCC is in even worse shape than the WRC.....madness...

[rubla]

I dont know about Ford&M-Sport but i heard just another related news from local insiders that confirms speculations circling around in last weeks - certain young Estonian has left the employment of MM Motorsport team (as mechanic) and has been hired as full time rally pilot by UK based team. First outing will be on some French rally next weekend as training for Monte Carlo.

:)

[GigiGalliNo1]

UK based team? Like MINI?!

[rubla]

UK based team? Like MINI?!

naah, i just tried to be interesting by being vague :P he is driving ford next year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Whoops,! See how gullable I am! Hah

Question - problem is M-Sport needs Ford to sign on for the future.. But if they dont; how much of a pain will It be for M-Sport to continue without the support of the manufacturer?

Is it Ford's money M-Sport need to develop the car and it's costs? Don't M-Sport do everything in house, create jobs and do the car and get it ready and built FOR the WRC?!

[tfp]

naah, i just tried to be interesting by being vague :P he is driving ford next year.

In the factory seat? Or semi works seat? I dont think hes ready to drive for the manufacturer yet!

[Bobcat]

Ford M-Sport Junior Team?

[mousti]

Ford M-Sport Junior Team?
How will that get financed no Abu Dhabi and Stobart anymore.

[rubla]

In the factory seat? Or semi works seat? I dont think hes ready to drive for the manufacturer yet!

I was told that from now on he doesnt have to find money from his long-time sponsors any more, but he will be payd for driving. Looks like factory seat to me? I do not know what deals they have in semi-works teams, but maybe this arrangement is possible there also.

[tfp]

I was told that from now on he doesnt have to find money from his long-time sponsors any more, but he will be payd for driving. Looks like factory seat to me? I do not know what deals they have in semi-works teams, but maybe this arrangement is possible there also.

It does sound like hes got a factory seat, but this would worry me, I'm sure tanak has potential, but Id be worried hes jumping in it too quick like Wilson.
Also, if the rumours are true about petter,(Which I hope they are!!) Then, more than likely, there will be stobart equivilant driver who will outpace tanak in the factory team!!

[Zeakiwi]

Whoops,! See how gullable I am! Hah

Question - problem is M-Sport needs Ford to sign on for the future.. But if they dont; how much of a pain will It be for M-Sport to continue without the support of the manufacturer?

Is it Ford's money M-Sport need to develop the car and it's costs? Don't M-Sport do everything in house, create jobs and do the car and get it ready and built FOR the WRC?!
M-Sport have many outside suppliers.

[Andre Oliveira]

Malcolm Wilson: "My dream team is Latvala and Ogier" (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F101569)

[tfp]

Malcolm Wilson: "My dream team is Latvala and Ogier" (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F101569)

Good find!

[I am evil Homer]

How about we wait for some actual news rather than toss uninformed negative speculation around. There's an old adage "no news is good news".

Perhaps but in the current economic climate who exactly will sponsor the team and what do they get out of it? When the richer nations, such as those in the middle east, pull their backing it's not a positive sign.

[noel157]

Wilson states in GP Week that he never made an offer to Ogier and that the Ogier/Hirvonen swap was a figment of the media'a imagination.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Martin Prokop has announced a 10-rally 2012 programme in a Fiesta WRC, starting at Monte Carlo and covering all the European events.

[I am evil Homer]

Interesting...be good to see what Martin can do in that equipment

[mm1]

see GB 2011`

[RSmaX]

Do you want to see a factory Ford team next year? Please join us in this group. Connexion | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/)

[Barreis]

Never in that group. :D

[driveace]

Do we know for definate that Abu Dhabi,and Stobart,have pulled out of sponsoring M Sport ?

[Motorsportfun]

Do we know for definate that Abu Dhabi,and Stobart,have pulled out of sponsoring M Sport ?

Stobart definitely. Abu Dhabi almost done.

[noel157]

Gerard Quinn on Ford''s view of WRC:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rally-wrc-and-irc/ford-motorsport-boss-praises-world-rally-championship/177027225723198

[BDunnell]

Gerard Quinn on Ford''s view of WRC:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rally-wrc-and-irc/ford-motorsport-boss-praises-world-rally-championship/177027225723198

Bland corporate platitudes.

[tfp]

Bland corporate platitudes.

Trying to make a point that ford need to be in the wrc, in the hopes that higher ups will take note!

[BDunnell]

Trying to make a point that ford need to be in the wrc, in the hopes that higher ups will take note!

I would have thought the higher-ups would already be well aware of the situation.

[Bobcat]

Bland corporate platitudes. I do not agree with you. I think you just didn't get the point.

[Bobcat]

Q: Is there any idea when Ford will announce there plans? Gerard Quinn: We will provide a full update in the near future.

[Plan9]

I don't think we will read anything concrete till closer to Christmas. Reason? M-Sport management do not want to jeopardize some very intense negotiations to save their livelihoods!

[bluuford]

You are wrong, the announcment will be in next two weeks.

[Motorsportfun]

I don't think we will read anything concrete till closer to Christmas. Reason? M-Sport management do not want to jeopardize some very intense negotiations to save their livelihoods!

The deadline for Manufacturers Entries closes early december, so we'll have an answer in the next couple of weeks... :)

[Plan9]

Nice to know I guess. I don't think my previous comment contracted the above at all mind you.

[bluuford]

OK. I found the exact date now. It is 12th of December. Same date is the deadline for SWRC and PWRC. However, You can miss one round in SWRC and two rounds in SWRC. Effectively that moves the deadline for SWRC to the beginning of the January (when the entry for Sweden closes) and deadline fo the PWRC to the end of March (when the entry for Argentina closes).

Quite short timeperiod to collect the budget and sort all things out.

[N.O.T]

After the signing of Ogier by WV i feel sorry for Latvala.....

[noel157]

I think Latvala will be happy enough.

[Miika]

Why feel sorry for Latvala, the check he will get from VW from 2013 and onwards will surely put a smile on his face. And after that there will be a reason to feel sorry for the rest of the remaining competition, if there is any competition left then.

[Juha_Koo]

Why feel sorry for Latvala, the check he will get from VW from 2013 and onwards will surely put a smile on his face. And after that there will be a reason to feel sorry for the rest of the remaining competition, if there is any competition left then.

:) :up:

[noel157]

Why feel sorry for Latvala, the check he will get from VW from 2013 and onwards will surely put a smile on his face. And after that there will be a reason to feel sorry for the rest of the remaining competition, if there is any competition left then.

Exactly.

[dimviii]

After the signing of Ogier by WV i feel sorry for Latvala.....

don t feel sorry for Latvala,polo is unknown quantity of speed-reliability yet.

[Koppomsbo]

TouringCarTimes - WTCC: Gabriele Tarquini unsure of next year's plans (http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7045)

seems like ford means busniess with wtcc

[Sulland]

It is time for Malcolm to call Petters youth 'mistake' with Prodrive for bigones. Petter is his best 2012 option.

[Bobcat]

Tanak, who impressed in sixth overall on Wales Rally GB earlier this month, will join Jari-Matti Latvala in a two-car team on the asphalt event, which the factory Ford squad is using as preparation for next season’s World Rally Championship opener in Monte Carlo.

Both Fiestas will run a variety of new components aimed at upping the performance of the machines ahead of the planned 2012 campaign.

However, Wilson told Autosport magazine in the UK that Tanak’s inclusion was not a pointer to his driver line-up next year.

World Rally Championship - News - Tanak gets another Fiesta chance (http://www.wrc.com/news/tanak-gets-another-fiesta-chance/?fid=15833)

[bassist]

Rumours at the moment , but the talk is that Ford have pulled out of the WRC. This apparently leaves `M`Sport on their own to keep the brand alive. There will be lots to discuss at Daventry Hall!!!

[AndyRAC]

Rumours at the moment , but the talk is that Ford have pulled out of the WRC. This apparently leaves `M`Sport on their own to keep the brand alive. There will be lots to discuss at Daventry Hall!!!

When did M-Sport move to Daventry..??? ;) Dovenby Hall I think......

However, if true, not a good refelction on the WRC - especially with Mini looking for more budget.....
The promise that 2011 would be the rebirth of the WRC is looking slightly optimistic....

[bassist]

When did M-Sport move to Daventry..??? ;) Dovenby Hall I think......

However, if true, not a good refelction on the WRC - especially with Mini looking for more budget.....
The promise that 2011 would be the rebirth of the WRC is looking slightly optimistic....

Yes, I cocked that up! No wonder I dont get any Christmas cards from `M` Sport!

[steve_spackman]

If Ford indeed have pulled the plug on the WRC, then Citroen should just be given the 2012 WRC drivers and manufacturer titles by default.

[Plan9]

Was anyone expecting anything different? Seriously, until VW gets up there I wouldn't have expected anything less this side of 2013.

[Hartusvuori]

I know how well-appreciated media MTV3 is to some of the forumeers, but I'll post anyway:
- Ford lost Abu Dhabi money, because Abu Dhabi offered a 5 year deal and Ford wanted only three-year. That's... weird. (The newspiece talks about Ford making the calls, not M-Sport. Mr. Wilson is hardly known for saying no to money)
- Ford is offering a worse support deal for M-Sport than they have in the past. They would also like to have power over ie. M-Sport's money transactions and driver choices. According to the news piece, Mr. Wilson has eyed other manufactures too, but as the time is running, he'll most likely take the Ford offer anyway.
- Also Ott Tänak was hinted as number 2. (I like Tänak a lots, good for him, though perhaps a b-tean solution would've suited better at the moment. He's a budget solution too, to put it rough, I think)

Tallipomo Wilson tähyilee muita merkkejä? - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/11/1451131/tallipomo-wilson-tahyilee-muita-merkkeja)

Two weeks ago Wednesday, we heard about Hirvonen. Last Wednesday about Ogier. Perhaps this Wednesday bring more news too.

[N.O.T]

I know how well-appreciated media MTV3 is to some of the forumeers, but I'll post anyway:
- Ford lost Abu Dhabi money, because Abu Dhabi offered a 5 year deal and Ford wanted only three-year. That's... weird. (The newspiece talks about Ford making the calls, not M-Sport. Mr. Wilson is hardly known for saying no to money)
- Ford is offering a worse support deal for M-Sport than they have in the past. They would also like to have power over ie. M-Sport's money transactions and driver choices. According to the news piece, Mr. Wilson has eyed other manufactures too, but as the time is running, he'll most likely take the Ford offer anyway.
- Also Ott Tänak was hinted as number 2. (I like Tänak a lots, good for him, though perhaps a b-tean solution would've suited better at the moment. He's a budget solution too, to put it rough, I think)

Tallipomo Wilson tähyilee muita merkkejä? - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/11/1451131/tallipomo-wilson-tahyilee-muita-merkkeja)

Two weeks ago Wednesday, we heard about Hirvonen. Last Wednesday about Ogier. Perhaps this Wednesday bring more news too.

very reliable source...

like the Hirvonen-Ogier swap which was according to them a done deal.....

The pain will become worse in the following 2 years so i expect to have a lot of fun with MTV3

[alleskids]

- Ford is offering a worse support deal for M-Sport than they have in the past. They would also like to have power over ie. M-Sport's money transactions and driver choices.

that's bad news for Mathew Wilson, as he is using parts of M-Sport cash flow/ official Ford equipement and testruns for his (1)5 years plans.

[DonJippo]

- Ford lost Abu Dhabi money, because Abu Dhabi offered a 5 year deal and Ford wanted only three-year. That's... weird.

That's because Ford commitments to WRC are for three years max at a time.

[focus206]

- Ford is offering a worse support deal for M-Sport than they have in the past. They would also like to have power over ie. M-Sport's money transactions and driver choices. According to the news piece, Mr. Wilson has eyed other manufactures too, but as the time is running, he'll most likely take the Ford offer anyway.


I don't quite get it... Ford would be more "involved" in the team about drivers choice but they would give less money to M-Sport? What's the point?

[dimviii]

I don't quite get it... Ford would be more "involved" in the team about drivers choice but they would give less money to M-Sport? What's the point?

a lot of points maybe involved,even if the money are spend properly...maybe...

[MJW]

a lot of points maybe involved,even if the money are spend properly...maybe... and driver choice? .... remember Malcolm wanted money from Sordo and Petter and Atko when they came available. Maybe he should have tried to find a way to strengthen his driver line up.
On a bit of a positive this Facebook group has gathered a lot of support to keep Ford in WRC, including Sebastien Loeb, Armin Schwarz and Nicky Grist. According to I rally Ford senior management are monitoring the group, so lets hope for the best. Malcolm says that things are still busy at MSport with full preparation for Monte. Even if you are a non Ford fan its worth the effort of joining in the hope that we don't loose another manufacturer.
link to the FB group https://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/

[Barreis]

Let them go. I don't like Wilson's castle.

[dimviii]

Let them go. I don't like Wilson's castle.

you prefere Citroen alone? get real Barreis!

[bluuford]

I don't quite get it... Ford would be more "involved" in the team about drivers choice but they would give less money to M-Sport? What's the point?

The point is that Ford wants to give a little less money directly to M-Sport and most of the money should be directed directly to development, driver salarys and competition costs. So, M-Sport can get less profit and nice lad called Matt Wilson must move to IRC to fulfil another 5 years plan.

[focus206]

and driver choice? .... remember Malcolm wanted money from Sordo and Petter and Atko when they came available. Maybe he should have tried to find a way to strengthen his driver line up.
On a bit of a positive this Facebook group has gathered a lot of support to keep Ford in WRC, including Sebastien Loeb, Armin Schwarz and Nicky Grist. According to I rally Ford senior management are monitoring the group, so lets hope for the best. Malcolm says that things are still busy at MSport with full preparation for Monte. Even if you are a non Ford fan its worth the effort of joining in the hope that we don't loose another manufacturer.
link to the FB group https://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/

The thing that I don't get (maybe it's because of my English) is... why Ford would give more support on one hand and less support on the other hand? I mean, if they are going to get involved more officially in the WRC, they should give more support on everything, otherwise, if they want to quit they should decrease their support on everything... am I missing something? :confused:

[focus206]

The point is that Ford wants to give a little less money directly to M-Sport and most of the money should be directed directly to development, driver salarys and competition costs. So, M-Sport can get less profit and nice lad called Matt Wilson must move to IRC to fulfil another 5 years plan.

Oh, now I get it. Thanks for explanation bluuford :)

Then ignore my post above :D

[Rallyper]

The thing that I don't get (maybe it's because of my English) is... why Ford would give more support on one hand and less support on the other hand? I mean, if they are going to get involved more officially in the WRC, they should give more support on everything, otherwise, if they want to quit they should decrease their support on everything... am I missing something? :confused:

It´s as simple as Ford want to be more involved in important decisions, maybe. Not just for MW to decide everything. It´s called efficiency.

[Barreis]

you prefere Citroen alone? get real Barreis!

M-sport won't let it that easy. Don't worry.

[dimviii]

from a reliable source Mikko was earning last years 350.000 euro only.
Jari for sure less.
Also MW offer to Ogier was at 700.000 euros annualy.Thats why Ogier prefered vw and 3millions per year and 1 year out of stages with wrc.
With Abu Dhabis sponsoring,Fords money,Castrol sponsoring,and so much millions from 8-10 rented Fiestas wrc at almost every wrc round,and some 30-40 sold Fiesta s2000, it is very easy to imagine Fords petition to ''involved'' more at teams decisions....
so much money, and so low earning drivers?....

[DonJippo]

Also MW offer to Ogier was at 700.000 euros annualy.Thats why Ogier prefered vw and 3millions per year and 1 year out of stages with wrc.

That's quite a cap as Ogier was asking 4 millions from Ford.

[N.O.T]

from a reliable source Mikko was earning last years 350.000 euro only.
Jari for sure less.
Also MW offer to Ogier was at 700.000 euros annualy.Thats why Ogier prefered vw and 3millions per year and 1 year out of stages with wrc.
With Abu Dhabis sponsoring,Fords money,Castrol sponsoring,and so much millions from 8-10 rented Fiestas wrc at almost every wrc round,and some 30-40 sold Fiesta s2000, it is very easy to imagine Fords petition to ''involved'' more at teams decisions....
so much money, and so low earning drivers?....

i would not call the sourse reliable.....

[AndyRAC]

Slightly confusing isn't it - I could understand Ford wanting more of a say if they put a lot more cash in. However, it would be interesting to see how things develop - and how, if and whether Ford stay - how their programme is run. It seems as if things will be different.

Maximum output for minimum input......

[dimviii]

i would not call the sourse reliable.....

i have reasons to call this source reliable.Proven to me a lot of times,even with fia regulations months before announced.Except that you know his relations with some wrc top drivers and co drivers.

ps do you like my avatar? :D

[whereschris]

I can kind of understand the less money from Ford but more control if they are not happy with M Sport. No manufacturers title, no drivers title is surely not how they want to be represented. However, it would seem that now the car is good, Jari Matti is looking good so maybe the situation could change. Perhaps with more input they think that they will reach their potential. Things like the Wilson Junior situation have not looked good in my opinion - I know that it's a different team but there is the association. If they go with Petter as the 2nd driver I think that they'll be on a more level playing field with Citroen in terms of a possible manufacturers title.

[bassist]

Did anyone read Jerry Williams column in todays Motorsport News, "Rallying has delivered in Spades for you" It is an open letter to Ford
and really sums it all up. Really worth a read.

[dimviii]

Did anyone read Jerry Williams column in todays Motorsport News, "Rallying has delivered in Spades for you" It is an open letter to Ford
and really sums it all up. Really worth a read.

is it a pay digital magazine?

[N.O.T]

i have reasons to call this source reliable.Proven to me a lot of times,even with fia regulations months before announced.Except that you know his relations with some wrc top drivers and co drivers.

ps do you like my avatar? :D

we have to wait for WV to announce solberg i guess then... since the deal is 95% done....

avatar is nice...could be better.

[bassist]

is it a pay digital magazine?

Dont know if its on line- its a very respected Weekly Motorsport news paper here in the UK.

[dimviii]

we have to wait for WV to announce solberg i guess then... since the deal is 95% done.....

he said 95%,not done.


avatar is nice...could be better. Not good Quesnel? :mad:

[bassist]

Dont know if its on line- its a very respected Weekly Motorsport news paper here in the UK.

Motorsport News (http://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/digital-edition/) I think you have to subscribe!

[AndyRAC]

You can download issues one off of MotorsportNews as well as subscribe.

It was an interesting 'letter' by Jerry Williams - but also mentioned their lack of willingness to put real financial backing into the WRC. I know lots of Rallyfans in the UK tend to be Ford fans; but recently Ford haven't backed up their commitment with real financial backing.
Personally, do it properly, or don't bother...

[Pinto]

would not be gone on Jerry Williams tends talk alot of bull for my liking and goes way OTT with the pro british attitude and to hell with the rest of ye,but i will look forward to tomorrow mornings tea break when ill get a chance to read it.

[YankWRC]

Hey all. Just joined the forum today but have been reading your discussion so far and it has been awesome!

As far as Ford goes. I can't really blame them for questioning their commitment at least to M-Sport. Mr. Wilson seems to be the type that has no problem taking the cash and using and placing it firmly in his wallet while running the operation on the cheap. I have questioned a good number of M-Sports decisions the last couple years and have been less than impressed. I am a huge Ford fan as being here in the States, it gives me something to relate too. Not sure if it is because Ford is not willing to pony up money or if Malcolm just makes bad decisions with the money or a little bit of both.

Regardless, Ford have said the next contract (if it happens) would be a longer term deal in the region of 5 years. Hopefully with that time frame and a little more cash flow they can do something to turn the tide. I am afraid it is going to become a little more difficult with VW entering the fold and their massive budget. MINI has proven they are no slouch either. Just really hope Ford stick around. Their loss would set the WRC back on the progress they are trying to make.

[AndyRAC]

would not be gone on Jerry Williams tends talk alot of bull for my liking and goes way OTT with the pro british attitude and to hell with the rest of ye,but i will look forward to tomorrow mornings tea break when ill get a chance to read it.

Well he is writing for a British publication - however, most of the time he hits the nail on the head, and speak a lot of sense, particularly the direction, or not, the sport is going. Too many writers toe the party line, and don't say it like it is - in fact come across as PR men, not journalists.

[Pinto]

i know that but its also sold to us irish rally folk as well, and im not going to get into things anymore with ya im telling ya hes not my cup of tea and theres my reasons

[Plan9]

You can download issues one off of MotorsportNews as well as subscribe.

It was an interesting 'letter' by Jerry Williams - but also mentioned their lack of willingness to put real financial backing into the WRC. I know lots of Rallyfans in the UK tend to be Ford fans; but recently Ford haven't backed up their commitment with real financial backing.
Personally, do it properly, or don't bother...

I suppose Mini has been the main avenue for frustrated Ford fans? This has certainly been the case for me.

How seriously would Malcolm consider just going with another car company? Ford's truculence is really start to grate.

[jonkka]

Regardless, Ford have said the next contract (if it happens) would be a longer term deal in the region of 5 years.

Most of what's posted as news is quite unreliable or even mere personal opinions. Yet, I wonder if you say Ford wants longer deal and earlier in the thread they turned Abu Dhabi money down because arabs wanted five year deal while Ford only wanted three years?

Another point: Ford's delayed commitment to the series sounds ominous to me. Last minute deals, if such is coming, are nearly always unsatisfactory compromises.

[Hartusvuori]

Another point: Ford's delayed commitment to the series sounds ominous to me. Last minute deals, if such is coming, are nearly always unsatisfactory compromises.

Exactly. If Ford the manufacturer would've wanted some real changes to be made, time has ran out for that a long ago.

[Bobcat]

Most of what's posted as news is quite unreliable or even mere personal opinions. Yet, I wonder if you say Ford wants longer deal and earlier in the thread they turned Abu Dhabi money down because arabs wanted five year deal while Ford only wanted three years?

Another point: Ford's delayed commitment to the series sounds ominous to me. Last minute deals, if such is coming, are nearly always unsatisfactory compromises.

16 Sep 11 - Gerard Quinn, the company's European motorsport boss, confirmed talks are ongoing over a new five-year commitment to the series. World Rally Championship - News - Hopes of new Ford deal increase (http://www.wrc.com/news/hopes-of-new-ford-deal-increase/?fid=15405)

“We’re taking a long time to make sure we’re making the right decision.”

“If we’re going to commit to any programme you need to make a long-term commitment and to have appropriate investment to be competitive. What we’ve seen from a short-term commitment is that it generally doesn’t work as well as a long-term commitment. If you’re going to do anything then you need to do it for a longer term.”

[Bobcat]

and driver choice? .... remember Malcolm wanted money from Sordo and Petter and Atko when they came available. Maybe he should have tried to find a way to strengthen his driver line up.
On a bit of a positive this Facebook group has gathered a lot of support to keep Ford in WRC, including Sebastien Loeb, Armin Schwarz and Nicky Grist. According to I rally Ford senior management are monitoring the group, so lets hope for the best. Malcolm says that things are still busy at MSport with full preparation for Monte. Even if you are a non Ford fan its worth the effort of joining in the hope that we don't loose another manufacturer.
link to the FB group https://www.facebook.com/groups/159136900850976/
Now including Tony Mason, Marshall Clarke, Urmo Aava, Patrik Flodin, Craig Breen, Eyvind Brynildsen, Hans Weijs. :)

[RS]

16 Sep 11 - Gerard Quinn, the company's European motorsport boss, confirmed talks are ongoing over a new five-year commitment to the series. World Rally Championship - News - Hopes of new Ford deal increase (http://www.wrc.com/news/hopes-of-new-ford-deal-increase/?fid=15405)

“We’re taking a long time to make sure we’re making the right decision.”

“If we’re going to commit to any programme you need to make a long-term commitment and to have appropriate investment to be competitive. What we’ve seen from a short-term commitment is that it generally doesn’t work as well as a long-term commitment. If you’re going to do anything then you need to do it for a longer term.”

You missed this bit from the quote: "“But the plan is to do what we said we’d always do, to be in a position to make an announcement in October."

[bassist]

You missed this bit from the quote: "“But the plan is to do what we said we’d always do, to be in a position to make an announcement in October."
Announcement in October eh, well thats well gone, and still no news.Facebook petition is gathering momentum. 1800 plus members now, and someone has said that the Ford top boy`s are keeping an eye on it. They must have decided by now, and the fact that it hasnt been announced doesnt look good in my opinion.

[I am evil Homer]

Deadline is two weeks away. No announcement, still major sponsor gone, minor sponsor of Jr/B team gone. It's not looking especially positive right now :S

[Barreis]

But nothing official on this sponsorship news.

[Rallyper]

Turn it this way:

the announcement is delayed because the top Ford boys are rethinking what to do. Eg. they will support M-sport for another three year period, and everybody will be happy... ;)

[Viking]

Could it not be the other way around, that Ford has put an offer on the table that MW won't sign??

[Bobcat]

Could it not be the other way around, that Ford has put an offer on the table that MW won't sign??

I think the good question is why MW doesn't want to sign! ??

[Viking]

I think the good question is why MW doesn't want to sign! ??

As a big fan of conspiracy theori it could be something like this:

GQ: ok MW we just want a little more control over where our money is spent, we will do a little bit more of produkt development and engineering inhouse, and hey, we got this driver who will drive one of the cars, dont worry, we will pay him his salary.

MW: Hey you! stay away from my wallet!

[OldF]

As a big fan of conspiracy theori it could be something like this:

GQ: ok MW we just want a little more control over where our money is spent, we will do a little bit more of produkt development and engineering inhouse, and hey, we got this driver who will drive one of the cars, dont worry, we will pay him his salary.

MW: Hey you! stay away from my wallet!

Little similar what I’ve posted earlier (post #649) in this thread.


But what if Ford buys the WRC part from M-Sport and hire all the engineers etc. working with the development and running the WRC cars and continuing working in the same facilities. Everything would be already. Ford would have their own management for the WRC part and Malcom would manage the customer projects. For Malcom it would be to accept this or don’t have anything.

If Ford leave WRC Malcom could still continue with the customer projects but the Fiesta would be outdated in some time because I understand it it’s the manufacturer who homologates the new parts.

[YankWRC]

Most of what's posted as news is quite unreliable or even mere personal opinions. Yet, I wonder if you say Ford wants longer deal and earlier in the thread they turned Abu Dhabi money down because arabs wanted five year deal while Ford only wanted three years?

Another point: Ford's delayed commitment to the series sounds ominous to me. Last minute deals, if such is coming, are nearly always unsatisfactory compromises.

I certainly agree the news may be slightly twisted in terms of the facts (see Ogier/Hirvonen switch). I really think though Ford want a longer term deal, but some of the money backing may not like the direction M-Sport has been going lately. Who knows really.

I do think the longer we push for an announcement, the less likely good news will come out of it. My question is if Ford was not going to stick around, why did they spend sooooo much money on the development for the new Fiesta. There are a ton of Fiesta rally cars out there and while one could make the argument they are doing kinda like Subaru and serving customer teams, I just don't see that kind of money being wasted.

[bluuford]

Well, if they postpone the announcment, then it might be good news as well. M-Sport is running huge armada of rallycars. They have nearly 20 Fiesta WRC-s by the beginning of next season. They have approximately 50 S2000 Fiestas. They have built over 50 Focus WRC-s which are still running in various championships. They are running over 20 Fiestas in WRC Academy. They have built a huge amount of Fiesta R2-s for local championships. They need to take into account a lot of terms and conditions in their agreement. So, it takes time and there are so much small details they need to take into account. You do not need two months extra to just say "no".

[alleskids]

Maybe M-Sport is taking to much work into acccount to competitive run a factory WRC team. Citroen Sport is running only 2 WRCars. Custumers are taking care of by Ph Sport. Citroen Sport has only one purpose: running a factory team in WRC. M-Sport should be have stricter seperations between the factory effort for Ford WRT and custumers in WRC, and skip acedemy and old rallycars department to outside companies. Use budget and facilities from Ford WRT only for Ford WRT.

Maybe Ford also has question marks with Wilson juniors WRC career which is jump started with facilities for the factory Ford WRT and were his budget is coming from al these 5+ years.