VW News 2012 & WRC 2013

[RICARDO75]

PHOTOS
GALERIEN*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/galerien/index.html?tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontext311%5D%5BgalleryUid %5D=103&tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontext311%5D%5BalbumUid%5D=251&tx_yag_pi1%5BalbumList311%5D%5BheaderColumns%5D=&tx_yag_pi1%5BalbumList311%5D%5Bfilters%5D%5Bintern alFilters%5D=&tx_yag_pi1%5Baction%5D=submitFilter&tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=ItemList&cHash=2dde446d65e5687a07f4bf3344c35ef2)
GALERIEN*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/galerien/index.html?tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontext311%5D%5BgalleryUid %5D=103&tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontext311%5D%5BalbumUid%5D=252&tx_yag_pi1%5BalbumList311%5D%5BheaderColumns%5D=&tx_yag_pi1%5BalbumList311%5D%5Bfilters%5D%5Bintern alFilters%5D=&tx_yag_pi1%5Baction%5D=submitFilter&tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=ItemList&cHash=e9dfbcb0bc120f96a89e108a1bc0f2f1)

[Plan9]

Why can't they enter this thing? How close to completion is it or are we looking at another example or are VW being too methodical?

[sollitt]

Presumably they want to make sure it's right before entering. They've got a plan & they're sticking with it.

[koko0703]

It's awsome to see a new car up and running :) I can't wait to see VW on the actual WRC stage.

[ProRally]

so, here are the first moving pictures of the brand new polo wrc, the car has a great sound!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZtZExauRgs&hd=1

VW Polo R WRC Test 2011 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZtZExauRgs)

Pretty impressive for first outings..... 'the others' should get worried....!!! :D :D

[bluuford]

The car looks too powerful for me:-) Maybe they are running without restrictor :-P

[mm1]

+1, that`s what I thought, look how it dissapears from the hairpin, and how quick it is through gears, I don`t think DS3 or Fiesta is that quick.

[noel157]

I think there was a lot of "showboating" with that test. Noise, apparent speed and acceleration, could well be a big restrictor engine in it or just a big engine ( :) ) but who cares. Great to see it out.
Thanks for the video.

[RobertS]

'King Carlos' and the development...

There were some very interesting period, when Sainz arrived to a team, and the car & team became competitive soon.

> 1989 Toyota
> 1990 World Champion

> 1994 Subaru
> 1995 World Champion

Also with the Corolla and even with the old Escort then...
We will see soon.

Any details about Sainz's role at the moment?
Only some test-run or...?

[N.O.T]

Any details about Sainz's role at the moment?
Only some test-run or...?

or what ???

be serious.....

[mousti]

First test of the Rallye Polo R WRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXy56JD44oY&feature=player_embedded)

:)

[Barreis]

Now we need more manufacturers.

[mousti]

Some sounds sound like the Impreza WRC S5 for sure the first seconds of the video of Rally MAD

[Mirek]

First test of the Rallye Polo R WRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXy56JD44oY&feature=player_embedded)

:)

From this video angles of dampers and position of suspension anchor points look same like in Fabia, so I was wrong in my assumption from previous video when I thought it must be very different.

[janvanvurpa]

Now we need more manufacturers.

We need more manufacturers to make cars available to normal human beings with some of the characteristics of these fun little cars, like uprights and hubs and driveshafts and wheelarches to accommodate suspension movement...
And gearboxes.
Only way to do that is by rules mandating bigger series of specialty parts.

Otherwise the separation between the car and the fan continue to become oceans wide like it has since the "World Rally Car" subset of GpA came on the scene.

And us liking a rally car vs a touring car vs a F! car is a mere whim of personal taste.

[Robisztar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdz5GioVA1U&feature=youtu.be

[cali]

Oh boy how I already like this car. What a great sound! Welcome back Audi ... errmm... VW!

[Juha_Koo]

No wonder it looked like having lots of power, I've heard some rumours about restrictor...

[makinen_fan]

the anti lag sound reminds me of early 90s gr A cars, especially celica st185

what about th restrictos? you suggest they run it with wider or no restrictor atm?

[tfp]

the anti lag sound reminds me of early 90s gr A cars, especially celica st185

what about th restrictos? you suggest they run it with wider or no restrictor atm?

Or a "Special" restrictor, like 1995 :D ?

[mousti]

the anti lag sound reminds me of early 90s gr A cars, especially celica st185

what about th restrictos? you suggest they run it with wider or no restrictor atm?
The 555 anti lag is also a bit alike :)

[Plan9]

Now we need more manufacturers.

I don't think there will be anymore announcements this year. Maybe next year someone will be brave?

[AndyRAC]

I don't think there will be anymore announcements this year. Maybe next year someone will be brave?

I was quite optimistic this time last year - now I'm not. I still think that the new car regs are too expensive - and the returns in media, etc aren't good enough. Add the new WEC Sportscar World Championship....Manufacturers have a series that is more 'road relevant', with varying levels of technology, diesel/petrol hybrids, etc

[Plan9]

I was quite optimistic this time last year - now I'm not. I still think that the new car regs are too expensive - and the returns in media, etc aren't good enough. Add the new WEC Sportscar World Championship....Manufacturers have a series that is more 'road relevant', with varying levels of technology, diesel/petrol hybrids, etc

That's interesting. I thought that touring cars were fading out a bit; just like the WRC! I think that F1 massive calendars have been a bit of a problem for any series that is not as easy to package to the media. It will be interesting to see if WRC gets bigger calendars in the years ahead. After all VW has deep market penetration worldwide! It will also be interesting to see if IRC/ERC becomes the GP2 of the rally world (i.e each year we will be blessed with a new gravel Vettel wannabe).

Lastly, I think that for Mikkelsens generation of drivers it will be make or brake for world rallying as well (I hope he wins IRC this year as it may introduce a new market).

[big_sw2000]

I was quite optimistic this time last year - now I'm not. I still think that the new car regs are too expensive - and the returns in media, etc aren't good enough. Add the new WEC Sportscar World Championship....Manufacturers have a series that is more 'road relevant', with varying levels of technology, diesel/petrol hybrids, etc

Well i think im with you on this. I still think its a turn in the right direction for the WRC, as i said Jean Todt should be an ideal person to bring it forward. BUt your right, with crap TV covage and media, it dose not matter how many manufactors there are.
And as a WEC fan, then that is going in the right direction, and seems to be atracting the manufactures at the moment.

[jbmarcus21]

Test Days Volkswagen Motorsport Polo Wrc 2011 - Carlos Sainz - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8DtBPaVKhw)

[Plan9]

Mikkelsen a dead cert for a VW seat now?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Carlos Sainz testing in the video above right? Has to be!

[RS]

Any news on what VW will do next year? I'm hoping they might stop messing around with random Germans and take 2 or 3 good drivers to WRC with the Fabia to learn the rallies for 2013 (Mikkelsen, Neuville, Hanninen)

[darkstar]

oh dear, do you still think they will choose one of those germans for the 1st or 2nd seat? they want a german, shure, but there is none(german rallye scene is probably one of the worst in whole europe), so they need to build up one. this will 90% be young wiegand, he´s already faster then riedemann with almost zero experience. it´s pretty shure yet he will drive the fabia at least once more next year. dont expect him to be on top level before 2014(if he will ever be at all), so if he gets a seat, then in a 3rd or 4th car. all other germans to be considered have been tested or could be observed anyway, like gassner jr. or wallenwein and herbold, all seem not to be the big talents...they will defenetly choose 2 top drivers, that is shure. maybe ogier and if ford ends theyre wrc engagement they could pick up latvala. also rumours about neuville and mikkelsen for 2nd seat, but neuville might also stick to psa. lemes, weijs and abbring also have shown a very good performace and i´m quite shure they will test a view more drivers next year on the fabia too.

[RS]

oh dear, do you still think they will choose one of those germans for the 1st or 2nd seat?

No, I don't - which is why I wanted to see them running some or all of the other 3 I mentioned on a more permanent basis next year.

[darkstar]

ok, ok ;) yes me too, i hope they will choose neuville, i think he´s a very very big talent. rumours said he should drive swrc and irc with skoda. that would be perfect.

[Barreis]

Good on tarmac but gravel?!

[darkstar]

did you miss cyprus and scotland? he has almost no gravel experience (7 rallyes on gravel including cyprus, 3rd rallye on gravel with s2000 at all) and was very fast. for me he´s the next big thing! this weekend again at condroz, he was on the absolute limit everywhere. just amazing!

[Barreis]

Being fast and winner on gravel is a different thing. We'll se him next season.

[darkstar]

shure...i bet he´ll beat mikkelsen and hännninen very soon, he has less experience and the worse car too. if he will be also on skoda he´ll be even faster.

[AndyRAC]

oh dear, do you still think they will choose one of those germans for the 1st or 2nd seat? they want a german, shure, but there is none(german rallye scene is probably one of the worst in whole europe), so they need to build up one. this will 90% be young wiegand, he´s already faster then riedemann with almost zero experience. it´s pretty shure yet he will drive the fabia at least once more next year. dont expect him to be on top level before 2014(if he will ever be at all), so if he gets a seat, then in a 3rd or 4th car. all other germans to be considered have been tested or could be observed anyway, like gassner jr. or wallenwein and herbold, all seem not to be the big talents...they will defenetly choose 2 top drivers, that is shure. maybe ogier and if ford ends theyre wrc engagement they could pick up latvala. also rumours about neuville and mikkelsen for 2nd seat, but neuville might also stick to psa. lemes, weijs and abbring also have shown a very good performace and i´m quite shure they will test a view more drivers next year on the fabia too.

I was a little critical of Wiegand getting the drive, but he acquitted himself very well - and considering his lack of Rallying experience. I wonder if they'll keep an eye on him, or maybe give him a Fabia for S-WRC/IRC National events in Germany to build up experience.

[Mintexmemory]

I was a little critical of Wiegand getting the drive, but he acquitted himself very well - and considering his lack of Rallying experience. I wonder if they'll keep an eye on him, or maybe give him a Fabia for S-WRC/IRC National events in Germany to build up experience.
They may keep an eye on him but they better keep both eyes on Weijs and Abbring. As far as I can recall ( Dutch fans can correct me here) WRGB was not only KA's first 4wd event but also his first with Lara Vaneste as co-driver (Mombaerts now being with Van Merkestein). His pace on tarmac is great he looks to have the gravel ability too. Exciting times ahead.

[darkstar]

yes he was at least ok i would say. i think they will give him something to drive. german rallye magazin says he will probably do monte with the fabia:

Abbring und Wiegand überzeugen*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/11/14/abbring-und-wiegand-ueberzeugen/index.html)

last part of the text.

[mousti]

They may keep an eye on him but they better keep both eyes on Weijs and Abbring. As far as I can recall ( Dutch fans can correct me here) WRGB was not only KA's first 4wd event but also his first with Lara Vaneste as co-driver (Mombaerts now being with Van Merkestein). His pace on tarmac is great he looks to have the gravel ability too. Exciting times ahead.
He debuted last year already with Lara in Hellendoorn last year. He continued rallying with her this year at Boucles de Spa and the rest of the rallies he started in France, only Ypres this year he did with Erwin.

[Nornbugger]

That's interesting. I thought that touring cars were fading out a bit; just like the WRC! I think that F1 massive calendars have been a bit of a problem for any series that is not as easy to package to the media. It will be interesting to see if WRC gets bigger calendars in the years ahead. After all VW has deep market penetration worldwide! It will also be interesting to see if IRC/ERC becomes the GP2 of the rally world (i.e each year we will be blessed with a new gravel Vettel wannabe).

Lastly, I think that for Mikkelsens generation of drivers it will be make or brake for world rallying as well (I hope he wins IRC this year as it may introduce a new market).

This is true, but what they need to learn to do isnt only on the stages, they need to learn to work the media etc, mainstream media is increasingly superficial, right now sports stars profiles are more likely to rise from their private/love lives than for their sporting ability(Beckham anyone?) Mikkelsen is a good looking lad, he need to dodge the odd days testing and start dating models/actresses etc if he wants to get really big.

[Mintexmemory]

He debuted last year already with Lara in Hellendoorn last year. He continued rallying with her this year at Boucles de Spa and the rest of the rallies he started in France, only Ypres this year he did with Erwin.
Thanks. How is Lara rated (for her co-driving!) in Belgium?

[wwbroe]

Thanks. How is Lara rated (for her co-driving!) in Belgium?

She is rated quite high by most drivers she was codriving for.

[mousti]

And only 20 years old. A perfect duo like Neuville - Gilsoul.

[Josti]

Regardless, Abbring did what I expected, a great drive. Citroën should actually pick him up for some sort of program next year. He did very well for them in French gravel championship this year.

[Plan9]

This is true, but what they need to learn to do isnt only on the stages, they need to learn to work the media etc, mainstream media is increasingly superficial, right now sports stars profiles are more likely to rise from their private/love lives than for their sporting ability(Beckham anyone?) Mikkelsen is a good looking lad, he need to dodge the odd days testing and start dating models/actresses etc if he wants to get really big.

Good idea! also he should take some PR lessons from Ken Block and Lewis Hamilton!

I think the marketing aspect of WRC is crucial. I hate reading how the WRC has a passionate "but dwindling" fan base. What the hell does that even mean? Load of bollocks I reckon.

[Plan9]

Regardless, Abbring did what I expected, a great drive. Citroën should actually pick him up for some sort of program next year. He did very well for them in French gravel championship this year.

The question is will there be enough cars for all these people? I don't see how all these new driver could all possibly find a home

[James Graham]

Surely Solberg will take the money and finish his career by sitting out the 2012 season to develop the VW? He has found himself in a lucky position with the other main contenders for the seat all committing themselves to other seats. It would be a wise move and would line his pockets after his expenses over the last few seasons and maybe set in place some building blocks for the Petter Solberg World Rally Team.

He also recently mentioned that he options in other forms of motorsport that he could take up for 2012 so the VW test job and a season in Global Rallycross would go well together.

[Plan9]

Surely Solberg will take the money and finish his career by sitting out the 2012 season to develop the VW? He has found himself in a lucky position with the other main contenders for the seat all committing themselves to other seats. It would be a wise move and would line his pockets after his expenses over the last few seasons and maybe set in place some building blocks for the Petter Solberg World Rally Team.

He also recently mentioned that he options in other forms of motorsport that he could take up for 2012 so the VW test job and a season in Global Rallycross would go well together.

Is he so luck after all? We have no idea that he will actually BE in VW AT ALL!! Everything that has come out about Petter and VW link-up has most been responses to the fandemonium that both these brands elicit from audiences.

What we know is that there are 2 VW seats and no suggestions coming from VW that they will be filled by anyone other than a German wunderkind. Not even Hanninen and Mikkelsen have had official confirmation yet. For all we know this could be the last we see of Petter sadly. If it came down to it Ogier could sit out the season if Ford does not commit. He is a far better future prospect at this stage I would think.

Global Rallycross would be fun for him but I think he would like something much more new like WTCC that may provide a fresh start.

[AndyRAC]

WTCC - I hope not, that's a dead-duck series with even less prestige than the WRC.

[noel157]

Nissen happy with Abbring and Wiegand's performances:

World Rally Championship - News - Young aces impress VW chief (http://www.wrc.com/news/young-aces-impress-vw-chief/?fid=15823)

[mousti]

In such news I don't think u'll very fast a negative thing. And about Abbring u can impossible say that it was bad, he was very fast for the first time in a S2000 and on friday with a 6th time overall is pure class.

[Dug83]

Ogier signs with VW!!!!!!!!!!!

Ogier becomes first factory driver at Volkswagen - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeicxXyqwvw&feature=feedu)

[N.O.T]

good news for the championship....but lets see if he is going to be affected by the 1 year lay-off.

[Brother John]

good news for the championship....but lets see if he is going to be affected by the 1 year lay-off.

We will definitely see him in the WRC, but wait until she confesses himself, we already have enough to read rumors here........

[Mintexmemory]

I'm very pleased about this news and VW will know, without doubt, if they are not winning then it's the car not the driver.
So Monte in a Fabia then?

[GigiGalliNo1]

There is a photo of him wearing VW clothing with codriver :)

1 year to develop car and get paid by top team... He's a top driver so there won't be any issues :)

[N.O.T]

In the video if you freeze it at 59 seconds...you see the castrol edge sponsor badge attached to the rally uniform of Ogier....that means Castrol jumped ship from ford to VW ??? or castrol is a WRC sponsor in general ???

[Hartusvuori]

Interesting to say the least. Will we see Ogier at all in 2012? We'll see.

So, will Ford go with Latvala-Tänak combination? That seems obvious. It's also obvious that it could end up as another 2008 season for Ford if Latvala doesn't proove yet to be enough number 1 for the team as Hirvonen wasn't yet in 2008. That too, we'll see.

[N.O.T]

I like the world cup races part of the video.... USA narrators are the best....

[Mintexmemory]

Interesting to say the least. Will we see Ogier at all in 2012? We'll see.

So, will Ford go with Latvala-Tänak combination? That seems obvious. It's also obvious that it could end up as another 2008 season for Ford if Latvala doesn't proove yet to be enough number 1 for the team as Hirvonen wasn't yet in 2008. That too, we'll see.

I think JML is a totally different personality to Mikko and is more than ready to be the leader. I'm surprised you singled out 2008, I don't think Mikko ever really stepped up to the plate although we don't know just how much confidence he lost in the big accident -more, it appears, than JML when he attempted Focus-skiing down a Portugese mountain.

[6789]

I think a Latvala-Solberg team at ford would be better and have Tanak in a WRC car to learn. Have to hold our breath until Ford an announcement

Also - what was the book they gave Ogier? German- French dictionary?

[steffforno]

WRC / Breaking news: Ogier primo pilota ufficiale di VW

[N.O.T]

Also - what was the book they gave Ogier? German- French dictionary?

no it was the "Driver-Team relations, How not to F$$$ up....again"

[Sulland]

I wish VW good luck with Ogier. He is quick, but not a champ seen from a HR perspective!

[Hartusvuori]

I'm surprised you singled out 2008.

It was the last time Ford had a change in their line-up and no.1 driver had some boots to fill. But for sure Grönholm's boots were bigger than Hirvonen's, and for sure Latvala is now more ready than Hirvonen was in 2007. And as for Latvala's confidence crushing "issues" in 2009, it was the Polish affair that effected him far more than the accident in Portugal.

Back on the topic, like N.O.T. said, for the championship Ogier signing VW seems to be the best option. If all goes well with Ford/M-Sport, in 2013 we'll see three stars attacking with full back-up from their team and wingmen: Loeb in Citroen, Ogier in VW and Latvala most likely in Ford. And perhaps Mini adds a notable force there too at odd occasions, and just bring more manus to bring more seats for the young guns.

Progress is slow, but as it seems, I wouldn't be too pessimistic about the near future of our beloved sport's main championship.

[RS]

I think that Ogier will be "enough" as a lead driver which should leave the way clear for someone like Mikkelsen, Hanninen or Neuville for seat 2.

[Leon]

someone to wake up wrc.com please. there are news to post......

[uranium]

VW in WRC is ok, but what about Skoda? What are news, rumors? What will be the future of Skoda Motorsport and future of Skoda in rally?
Probably it should be in separate thread. IMHO quite serious question...

[DonJippo]

I think that Ogier will be "enough" as a lead driver which should leave the way clear for someone like Mikkelsen, Hanninen or Neuville for seat 2.

I think VW has other plans for Ogier's team mate.

[modri dirkac]

VW in WRC is ok, but what about Skoda? What are news, rumors? What will be the future of Skoda Motorsport and future of Skoda in rally?
Probably it should be in separate thread. IMHO quite serious question...

My speculation: VW with Polo WRC, Skoda with new Fabia R4(T).

[RS]

I think VW has other plans for Ogier's team mate.

I heard they wanted two previous WRC winners in their team so I guess that would mean Latavala from 2013. If they run 3 cars(or 2 teams) at least that would leave space for the young guns.

But maybe the Citroen model is better? (to have a clear no.1)

[Mirek]

In the video if you freeze it at 59 seconds...you see the castrol edge sponsor badge attached to the rally uniform of Ogier....that means Castrol jumped ship from ford to VW ??? or castrol is a WRC sponsor in general ???

Castrol is sponsor of Škoda so it's not that strange.

[dimviii]

Good luck to Ogier.Lets see if VW will enter him to Monte,or they will prefere to enter Wiegand

[noel157]

Has there been any talk/confirmation about a Junior team?

[makinen_fan]

Castrol is sponsor of Škoda so it's not that strange.

I think they also sponsored VW for the Dakar, didn't they?

[Mirek]

My speculation: VW with Polo WRC, Skoda with new Fabia R4(T).

Yes, mostly likely.

[Brother John]

I think VW has other plans for Ogier's team mate.

Yes Don, but try that here in the forum to explain .... ;) No, forget it, they will sooner or later hear or see something when they understand how businesses work. :D

[uranium]

My speculation: VW with Polo WRC, Skoda with new Fabia R4(T).

But Skoda doesn't have R4 car or even something similar to it?

[mousti]

In the video if you freeze it at 59 seconds...you see the castrol edge sponsor badge attached to the rally uniform of Ogier....that means Castrol jumped ship from ford to VW ??? or castrol is a WRC sponsor in general ???
Mini has the sponsoring too, the logo was already on the Polo from the test maybe even when the first pics got on the web, and Skoda Motorsport also sponsored for some years by them :)

[Mirek]

But Skoda doesn't have R4 car or even something similar to it?

It is not R4 as we know them now but the new formula - like an R3T with 4WD and larger restrictor. I believe that development of this car already started in Škoda.

[darkstar]

Good luck to Ogier.Lets see if VW will enter him to Monte,or they will prefere to enter Wiegand

i´m shure they will run 2 cars on all, or almost all, events of wrc 2012. they shurely also want to test some more guys during the season, and ogier 100% wants also to do all rounds to not get out of shape. i think it´s a clever move from him to go to vw. now he can also build this car around him, it will perfectly fit him then. and 2013 he´ll be wr champion ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

One of the biggest car companies in Europe.... one the to be biggest manufactures (They're aiming for spot number 1) in the world!!! It's also great for the WRC as well don't you think?

[darkstar]

From iRally http://bit.ly/vk7wHp VW Motorsport chief Kris Nissen says the "misunderstandings" Sébastien Ogier suffered at Citroën this season led to him becoming available, and it was Ogier's decision to come to the VW team.

Ogier will drive one of the VW-entered Skoda Fabias in rounds of the 2012 WRC, and will also embark on world-wide testing for the VW Polo R WRC car, including altitude testing in Mexico.

Nissen has also confirmed to iRally that Juho Hänninen is on his 'Watchlist' for the other seat in the main VW team for 2013, along with Andreas Mikkelsen, Kevin Abbring and Sepp Wiegand, and says he's under no illusions about the challenge of taking on Citroën and Ford in WRC.http://bit.ly/vk7wHp

[dimviii]

i think it´s a clever move from him to go to vw. now he can also build this car around him, it will perfectly fit him then. and 2013 he´ll be wr champion ;)
clever move if it is, we will see after the end of season 2013.Till now its not clever to be out of the last years champion team.Of course he couldn t do something else after the f@#$d up with Quesnel at Citroen. ;)
What do you mean with the...'' build the car around him to perfectly fit him''? Nobody else could drive fast the polo?

[mousti]

Sepp Wiegand for 1st team would be ridiculous take then Weijs Jr.. No official word on Neuville but that's not surprise with being under contract of PSA and still negotiating.

[darkstar]

What do you mean with the...'' build the car around him to perfectly fit him''? Nobody else could drive fast the polo?

i mean that he is now developing the car from the beginning on, so he can make it the way it feels good for him for 2013. its defenetly better for him then sitting in the car first time at the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013.

[dimviii]

i mean that he is now developing the car from the beginning on, so he can make it the way it feels good for him for 2013. its defenetly better for him then sitting in the car first time at the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013.

development with adjusting the car are not same things.
After that how you know Ogiers abilities to develop a wrc car?

[tfp]

I heard the news today, good move from Ogier I think! However, I'll now bet my last pound that citroen wont continue in WRC after Loeb leaves, its clear that VW arent messing about here!

[darkstar]

ogier was also involved in the development of the ds3, so i think he cant be that worse. but i never said he´s good in it. thats your interpretation...anyhow, he will shurely develope it like he feels its good for him and not how it may feel good for who ever. developing and adjusting are not same but belong together. developing, if you want so, is done by the engineers basically. drivers can only give hints on how to make something better and then test if its actually better or not. and therefore you also must defenetly be good in making a setup and "adjusting" the car. and of course he knows how things where done by citroen, witch defenetly will help vw a lot...

[mousti]

Developing is also by drivers, Duez and Loix were know about their knowledge and the feeling to make the car better.

[Juha_Koo]

Volkswagen now has Ogier and there are rumours of Mikkelssen too.

So for Hänninen door looks closed... Maybe Hänninen's story with VAG is over and he becomes Ford's number two? ;)

[dimviii]

ogier was also involved in the development of the ds3, so i think he cant be that worse. but i never said he´s good in it. thats your interpretation....anyhow, he will shurely develope it like he feels its good for him and not how it may feel good for who ever..
Loeb was the developer for c4 and ds3.If Ogier had drive a prototype ds3 thats not making him a developer.My ''interpretation'' was at your point that '' he is going to develop the polo to suit him''.And that is not something right.Its not right because the challenge is to beat Citroen /Ford and not make a car that suit Ogier.


developing and adjusting are not same but belong together. developing, if you want so, is done by the engineers basically. drivers can only give hints on how to make something better and then test if its actually better or not. and therefore you also must defenetly be good in making a setup and "adjusting" the car. and of course he knows how things where done by citroen, witch defenetly will help vw a lot...

developing is a job between drivers and engineers.Both of them must understand what they want,and must know how to fix it.Hope Ogier study the vocabulary asap.
About the last sentence,of course he knows how things were done by citroen,but we don t know yet if vw can manage it at the same level.
Ogier at last rallies btw couldn t manage to set up proper his ds3.

To summary a little,it is good for Ogier and vw their co operation and i wish them the best.But we have to be carefull about predictions for a young team,and a driver who can t manage to finish rallies constantly after 4 years of his development.So we have to be a little carefull about what he is capable to do after one year outside wrc competition.

[Mirek]

I think that the basic developer in Citroën is still the good old Bugalski. The best thing is to have top drivers and wise engineers in one person though not many of those are living on this planet. Anyway I'm not skeptic about VW abilities. So far they showed really serious approach and the latest informations saying they even plan hi-altitude test sessions in Mexico is just encouraging my feeling.

[darkstar]

dimvii, draw it mild man ;) if they want ogier(and his teammate) to win, they should defenetly make the car fit him(and his teammate) and they defenetly will. and not make it fit to anyone, like ford does. citroens also fitted loeb the best...

[dimviii]

dimvii, draw it mild man ;) if they want ogier(and his teammate) to win, they should defenetly make the car fit him(and his teammate) and they defenetly will. and not make it fit to anyone, like ford does. citroens also fitted loeb the best...

i am mild darkstar but totally disagree when you say that ''they should make the car definetely fit him''? There is no existence of something like this.If a car is ''wrong'' from the drawing board is not going to fit anybody.If it is ''right'' is going to fit everybody knows to setup for each event.There is no fitment for a specific driver.Plenty of examples with rally cars,from wrc/s2000/grN/grA etc.

[MikeD]

Has there been any talk/confirmation about a Junior team?

It's unclear, but in an interview on WRR during Rally Germany some guy from VW said they would start the 2013 season with 3 cars - maybe 4.

[Barreis]

Every works team should have 3 or 4 cars like ten years ago.

[darkstar]

i am mild darkstar but totally disagree when you say that ''they should make the car definetely fit him''? There is no existence of something like this.If a car is ''wrong'' from the drawing board is not going to fit anybody.If it is ''right'' is going to fit everybody knows to setup for each event.There is no fitment for a specific driver.Plenty of examples with rally cars,from wrc/s2000/grN/grA etc.

you always interpret so much...no idea why. i never said that they should build a car thats "wrong" and then make it fit to ogier, so for him it is "right" but for no one else or whatever. i only said that ogier can give his input, so the car will be perfect for him. everything else was said by you...

[tfp]

[quote="dimviii"]Loeb was the developer for c4 and ds3.If Ogier had drive a prototype ds3 thats not making him a developer.My ''interpretation'' was at your point that '' he is going to develop the polo to suit him''.And that is not something right.Its not right because the challenge is to beat Citroen /Ford and not make a car that suit Ogier.


QUOTE]

The two things you say, building a car to suit ogier, and building a car to beat ford and citroen - IMO, these things are the same. If the car doesnt work for Ogier, he isnt going to win any events anytime soon! Vice-Versa, of course ;)

An example is Mcrae when he joined citroen. he was driving a car that was built around Loeb, ie- Richard Burns style smooth driving. The car wasn't really built for Mcrae's lunacy style driving, and therefor, he diddnt perform.

[RS]

Volkswagen now has Ogier and there are rumours of Mikkelssen too.

So for Hänninen door looks closed... Maybe Hänninen's story with VAG is over and he becomes Ford's number two? ;)

It will be good if Ogier, Hanninen, Mikkelsen and maybe Neuville are all running sWRC next year with Fabia S2000s which will give VW a good idea of how they stack up. I fear though that Mikkelsen and maybe Neuville are a bit faster than Hanninen and age counts against Juho too.

He is someone who definitely deserves a drive somewhere but there are simply not enough seats to go around at the moment.

[dimviii]

you always interpret so much...no idea why. i never said that they should build a car thats "wrong" and then make it fit to ogier, so for him it is "right" but for no one else or whatever. i only said that ogier can give his input, so the car will be perfect for him. everything else was said by you...

really?read again your posts.

i think it´s a clever move from him to go to vw. now he can also build this car around him, it will perfectly fit him then. and 2013 he´ll be wr champion ...


he will shurely develope it like he feels its good for him and not how it may feel good for who ever...


if they want ogier(and his teammate) to win, they should defenetly make the car fit him(and his teammate) and they defenetly will. and not make it fit to anyone, like ford does. citroens also fitted loeb the best... ...


so of course you said plenty of times that they have to build a car that fits Ogier specific.Something totally wrong.

[J.Lindstroem]

I had a crazy idea this evening... Ogier in 2012 with a Fabia 1.6T?

[RS]

I had a crazy idea this evening... Ogier in 2012 with a Fabia 1.6T?

I think that project was canned.

It will be Fabia S2000 and it sounds like maybe some events with the Polo are possible towards the end of the year.

[dimviii]

The two things you say, building a car to suit ogier, and building a car to beat ford and citroen - IMO, these things are the same. If the car doesnt work for Ogier, he isnt going to win any events anytime soon! Vice-Versa, of course ;) .
there is no car that works only for specific driver.



An example is Mcrae when he joined citroen. he was driving a car that was built around Loeb, ie- Richard Burns style smooth driving. The car wasn't really built for Mcrae's lunacy style driving, and therefor, he diddnt perform.
No simply McRae was at this time slower ,or couldn t setup his car at Loebs level.
Every rally car is properly designed, can suit every drivers likes.EVERYTHING rally car from last century.

[OldF]

It's unclear, but in an interview on WRR during Rally Germany some guy from VW said they would start the 2013 season with 3 cars - maybe 4.

When Finnish TV-channel MTV3 interviewed Kris Nissen he said that in 2013 there will be a 3 car team and from 2014 a 4 car team.

[darkstar]

so of course you said plenty of times that they have to build a car that fits Ogier specific.Something totally wrong.

and i didnt deny that, i can say it again if you like to ;) who cares what others can do with the car, as long as the worksdrivers like it? do you think citroen cares if van merksteijn likes the ds3?

but you are talking like i´ve said that ogier is a good developer (witch you obviously dont think), that the car will ONLY fit him and wont work for others, that it will be wrong from the drawing, you explained what developing means for you etc. that all you were interpreting in my sentence "now he can also build this car around him, it will perfectly fit him then".

[OldF]

What does it really mean to develop a car or building it to suit someone? For me it’s to have such construction (e.g. the geometry of the suspension) before homologation that cannot be changed afterwards or done by adjustments.

[dimviii]

What does it really mean to develop a car or building it to suit someone? For me it’s to have such construction (e.g. the geometry of the suspension) before homologation that cannot be changed afterwards or done by adjustments.

some mates can t understand the obvious.They still think that cars are build for specific drivers,driving likes etc.

[Antony Warmbold]

This is an interesting thread and I can't resist jumping in...

It seems like you all are basically saying that a newly developed car needs to beat the DS3 and the driver must feel the car well so he can really push it.

The thing that is difficult to get in terms of development is that fo a given rally car, if it is perfect on paper it does not mean that for sure the driver will feel comfortable to push it to the limit. Therefore at some point the engineers need to make "sacrifices" and think of what or how to do so the driver feels extremely confident in the car.

Example: on paper basically if want traction you need very soft suspension on slippery surfaces, with lots of travel. The problem is the super softness takes away from the feeling of the car and for the grip to the driver.

So the development driver needs to know: how a good car is supposed to behave. how to tell his engineer about it.
The engineer needs to know: how to make a good car on paper. then listen to his driver. and know how to interpret and act to what the driver says.

Loeb and his engineers are in perfect osmosis on that domain. For him the car is like his toy. he can do what he wants with it.

[I am evil Homer]

Finally someone on here who actually knows what they're talking about!

[MikeD]

When Finnish TV-channel MTV3 interviewed Kris Nissen he said that in 2013 there will be a 3 car team and from 2014 a 4 car team.

Ok, thanks. As I understood it in 2013 there will be an official works team with 2 cars and a "Junior" team with 1 car (I expect that "Junior" mens talented driver who also brings sponsors). And I guess that for 2014 that Junior Team will expand to a two car team.

Don't you think the setup will be something like that?

[dimviii]

This is an interesting thread and I can't resist jumping in...

It seems like you all are basically saying that a newly developed car needs to beat the DS3 and the driver must feel the car well so he can really push it.

The thing that is difficult to get in terms of development is that fo a given rally car, if it is perfect on paper it does not mean that for sure the driver will feel comfortable to push it to the limit. Therefore at some point the engineers need to make "sacrifices" and think of what or how to do so the driver feels extremely confident in the car.

Example: on paper basically if want traction you need very soft suspension on slippery surfaces, with lots of travel. The problem is the super softness takes away from the feeling of the car and for the grip to the driver.

So the development driver needs to know: how a good car is supposed to behave. how to tell his engineer about it.
The engineer needs to know: how to make a good car on paper. then listen to his driver. and know how to interpret and act to what the driver says.

Loeb and his engineers are in perfect osmosis on that domain. For him the car is like his toy. he can do what he wants with it.

+1. Work between driver and his engineer/mechanics to adjust diffs.suspension/ecu/antilag etc..Not specific builds for a driver,just fine tuning.

[mousti]

I think that the basic developer in Citroën is still the good old Bugalski. The best thing is to have top drivers and wise engineers in one person though not many of those are living on this planet. Anyway I'm not skeptic about VW abilities. So far they showed really serious approach and the latest informations saying they even plan hi-altitude test sessions in Mexico is just encouraging my feeling.
Loix was pretty good doing that at TTE.

[Barreis]

Loix was pretty good doing that at TTE.

Very good. Still remember second place at Acropolis 1998.

[GigiGalliNo1]

VW will have a Team 1 Ogier and Mikkelsen and Team 2 will be junior team for 2013 :)

[OldF]

Ok, thanks. As I understood it in 2013 there will be an official works team with 2 cars and a "Junior" team with 1 car (I expect that "Junior" mens talented driver who also brings sponsors). And I guess that for 2014 that Junior Team will expand to a two car team.

Don't you think the setup will be something like that?

That’s how I interpret it. In 2013 1 junior driver, in 2014 2 junior drivers.

[OldF]

It is not R4 as we know them now but the new formula - like an R3T with 4WD and larger restrictor. I believe that development of this car already started in Škoda.

Skoda should have lot of parts already developed by Impromat for the Fabia R2.

[Martin Luijk]

Maybe a team with two good drivers who are able to score points and fight for victories (Ogier and Mikkelsen) and a third car for a German talent who might be successful in the future (Wiegand).

[mousti]

As a dutch guy u should better hope on one of your Dutch Young Guns :D

[I am evil Homer]

I would have thought Abbring was in a prime position for one of those seats so long as his development continues

[OldF]

Kris Nissen have still almost a year to assess different drivers.

[Martin Luijk]

As a dutch guy u should better hope on one of your Dutch Young Guns :D

That would be great. Expecialy Kevin Abbring has a great talent. But Volkwagen is surging for a new Walther Rohl.

[Hartusvuori]

But Volkwagen is surging for a new Walther Rohl.

Speaking of Röhrl, has anyone had a chance to see this Röhrls Katze DVD (http://roehrl.deimelfilm.at/) yet? I'm sure it's good in footage, but how's the English version? Subtitles or dubbed?

[mousti]

Mikkelsen hará 4 pruebas del WRC junto a Ogier (http://latulasport.es/index.php/wrc/2860-mikkelsen-hara-4-pruebas-del-wrc-junto-a-ogier.html)

Mikkelsen will do 4 events as VW factory driver with Ogier. Rest of 9 events the pilot is not known..

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen hará 4 pruebas del WRC junto a Ogier (http://latulasport.es/index.php/wrc/2860-mikkelsen-hara-4-pruebas-del-wrc-junto-a-ogier.html)

Mikkelsen will do 4 events as VW factory driver with Ogier. Rest of 9 events the pilot is not known..
i d like to compare them with skodas.Can t wait.

[alleskids]

I thought Mikkelsen would also do SWRC besides defending his IRC title? competing for SWRC is taking part in 7 out of 8 rallies

[bluuford]

I thought Mikkelsen would also do SWRC besides defending his IRC title? competing for SWRC is taking part in 7 out of 8 rallies

SWRC have its own and very strict testing limits. So, maybe he runs 7 events in SWRC under another team (Skoda UK) and on those 4 events he is part of the official VW team and can test as musch as they dare. That counts 11 events.
Ypres collides with New Zealand, Yalta collides with GB and Cyprus collides with Spain and Mexico almost collides with Canarias. Mexico ends in the afternoon of 11th of March and it takes quite a long time to get to the airport (from Leon to bigger airport), then to then you loose with time zones and you have to get to Canarias somehow.

So, I quess that he does 7 SWRC events, 4 events with VW team and misses two long haul events: New Zealand and Mexico. Then he has to sacrifice Yalta and Cyprus in IRC

[VFTS]

I thought Mikkelsen would also do SWRC besides defending his IRC title? competing for SWRC is taking part in 7 out of 8 rallies

Mikkelsen will do 8 WRC-events for VW in Fabia, all in Europe.
They will not do Wales because it collides with Yalta Rally in IRC.
The last WRC-event in Spain collides with Cyprus, they will do Cyprus if they need points in the IRC-end. Spain if not.

[RS]

The last WRC-event in Spain collides with Cyprus, they will do Cyprus if they need points in the IRC-end. Spain if not.

Today they moved the date of Spain forward one week.

[alleskids]

If Mikkelsen is doing the SWRC seriously he has to do 7 out of 8. New Zealand is also included, but he do only European rounds? And he skippes Wales, that leaves him with only 6 scoring oppertunities. So defending his IRC title has his priority?

[RS]

If Mikkelsen is doing the SWRC seriously he has to do 7 out of 8. New Zealand is also included, but he do only European rounds? And he skippes Wales, that leaves him with only 6 scoring oppertunities. So defending his IRC title has his priority?

I suppose doing sWRC is more about learning the WRC events than it is to take the title.

[Barreis]

Happy that it's not the same in SWRC as in IRC where you can win the title in 2 rounds.

[Mirek]

If Mikkelsen is doing the SWRC seriously he has to do 7 out of 8. New Zealand is also included, but he do only European rounds? And he skippes Wales, that leaves him with only 6 scoring oppertunities. So defending his IRC title has his priority?

Who said he will do SWRC? Driving S2000 in WRC events doesn't need registration to SWRC. I'm just asking.


Happy that it's not the same in SWRC as in IRC where you can win the title in 2 rounds.

Pons won the title in two runs in SWRC 2010. Don't You remember?

[Barreis]

It wasn't doubled points.

[Mirek]

It wasn't doubled points.

And now imagine the SWRC without superally. Rules are different and both championships have pros and cons in them. For me it's more a nonsense to take points after one or more retirements during the rally when just one or two cars finish without retirement (like in Jordan 2010 for example).

For me the never-ending complains about IRC rules is like to say that for example football or ice hockey world championships are unfair when You can win the title in just few important matches and no-one cares if You lost half of Your matches in base groups. Once there are some rules and You either accept them and compete or not. No-one force You to compete there.

[Barreis]

And now imagine the SWRC without superally. Rules are different and both championships have pros and cons in them. For me it's more a nonsense to take points after one or more retirements during the rally when just one or two cars finish without retirement (like in Jordan 2010 for example).

For me the never-ending complains about IRC rules is like to say that for example football or ice hockey world championships are unfair when You can win the title in just few important matches and no-one cares if You lost half of Your matches in base groups. Once there are some rules and You either accept them and compete or not. No-one force You to compete there.

Just don't Like it. Nothing else. IRC had superrally also if I remember good.

[pucky54]

Just don't Like it. Nothing else. IRC had superrally also if I remember good.

No, you have been able to restart, but you don't get any points.

[bluuford]

No, you have been able to restart, but you don't get any points.

No, in Cyprus 2011 and in Russia you were still able to collect IRC points as well. It depends on the organizer.

[Mirek]

True, IRC rules regarding superally have been same with 2012 WRC ones.

[pucky54]

No, in Cyprus 2011 and in Russia you were still able to collect IRC points as well. It depends on the organizer.

Oh, yes correct, sorry for mixing it up. I did not take part in those events. So there are three possibilities for the organizers: Superally, No Superally and Superally but without being able to score points

[danon]

Q&A with Dieter Depping VW'S chief tester :arrow: Q&A with VW's Dieter Depping | World Rally Sport (http://www.worldrallysport.com/node/8868)

[noel157]

Q&A with Dieter Depping VW'S chief tester :arrow: Q&A with VW's Dieter Depping | World Rally Sport (http://www.worldrallysport.com/node/8868)


With a total of three ADAC Rallye Deutschland victories (in 1994, 1996 and 1997), Dieter Depping is considered to be the most successful German rally driver. Huh? Is he? The journalist (?) should've listened to Depping's last quote.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Kevin Abbring will join Ogier in a Volkswagen-prepared Skoda Fabia for Monte Carlo:

Kevin Abbring Volkswagen junior at Rally Monte Carlo - Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/news/index.php?&flash=no&lg=e&st=588&id=4792)

So far that is the only even Abbring is confirmed for.

[noel157]

Kevin Abbring will join Ogier in a Volkswagen-prepared Skoda Fabia for Monte Carlo:

Kevin Abbring Volkswagen junior at Rally Monte Carlo - Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/news/index.php?&flash=no&lg=e&st=588&id=4792)

So far that is the only even Abbring is confirmed for.


He also has an excellent chance of being accepted into our Volkswagen junior programme for rally drivers.”

And indication of his future?

[alleskids]

If VW is really interested in Kevin Abbring, then he should stay away from a Citroen DS3 WRCar or a Peugeot 207 S2000, and try to get a program with a Skoda Fabia instead.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

They're defiantely interested in him, but I think they'll be auditioning drivers for most of 2012, just as they did at the end of 2011. He's running in the Monte, but I don't think they'll want to tip their hand too soon. They should probably limit Abbring to the European rounds, and find some local talent for the fly-aways.

[Mirek]

And indication of his future?

Not much in my opinion. His start in Monte although in VW car is payed by his own sponsors.

[Martin Luijk]

Am I right if I say that there are still only two drivers open for the second VW seat? Only Andreas Mikkelsen and Kevin Abbring. It's interesting to see who will get that second seat. They are the same age (both 22) but Mikkelsen is more experienced. Who, do you think, will get that second seat?

[Mirek]

You are not right if You speak about second seat for Polo :) AFAIK Juho Hänninen has testing of VW Polo WRC in his program so I think he is still in. Than there is Sepp Wiegand who is sent by VW to IRC and South Africa to gain experience.

[EightGear]

Not much in my opinion. His start in Monte although in VW car is payed by his own sponsors.

Really? That's the first time I read he payed for the seat. Would be a bit strange IMO, VW doens't really need money I think.

[alleskids]

Not much in my opinion. His start in Monte although in VW car is payed by his own sponsors.

maybe he is allowed to have personal sponsor logo's on the VW Fabia, just like the other VW junior had. Mikkelsen had his FIA Academy logo on the car. But paying for the drive is not correct. As said earlier, VW do not need budget from drivers, VW is payng for the entry and testing oppertunities to evaluate the best young drivers of this generation.

If VW needs paying drivers, they would first of all make a joke of themselfs. And if they indeed needed paying drivers, much more healthier drivers are available on te market then Kevin Abbring

[RS]

As VW will not be entering their drivers for sWRC points will they be allowed to do proper testing before events?

[Miika]

Paint it black.

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/1610/vw1105040855800.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9023/vw1105040855original.jpg

[GigiGalliNo1]

I want the black one!!! I want!!!!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

I want the black one!!

[Ghosty!]

Absolute lovely car!

[Allyc85]

Black always looks great! :D

[Miika]

As long as it won´t be another Red Bull red-blue-yellow -mishmash livery, it will be alright. If the #1 livery is the all-white livery they use now in the Skodas then maybe the #3 car could have some alternative livery (like with Märtin and Duval in Ford in 2003).

[Plan9]

I bet it will be the Red-Blue-Silver-Yellow mismash sadly. When does the road-going Polo R come out? looks impressive.

[N.O.T]

red bull and castrol....

hmm what about Citroen and Ford sponsors ?

[mousti]

Castrol no problem sponsor with BP Ultimate on Mini. Redbull will be done with Citroën I guess next year.

[danon]

A black livery?!

Another try to look fearful.
A folks car scaring the folks.
What an irony!

It looks like VW is going to the Dark Side of the Force.
Wrong movie though. WRChamp is not a Star Wars galaxy... :vader:

[Miika]

For now the black colour and the sponsors in the folks´car are just fantasy photoshopping.

...
According to TS VW and Ogier will be testing the Polo in the Swedish snow after Rally Sweden, and possibly partly in the route used in the rally:
Aito WRC-Polo Ruotsissa testiin MM-rallin jälkeen - Ralli - Turun Sanomat (http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/ralli/301782.html)

[OldF]

That was what Kim Vatanen also told in MTV3’s Saturday Monte coverage. VW has a 22 week test program.

He also commented Ogier’s crash and said that of course it had been good for both Ogier and for the team to finish but “we are still on good terms with Kris Nissen”. ;)

[Leon]

I hear DR thinking....."How nice to have plenty of money/budget" and your only problem to be what colorscheme to use for your rally cars....

[Miika]

If Red Bull and VW decide to have a baby... then maybe:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/117/vw1105040851800.jpg

Bigger: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5557/vw11050408512560.jpg

[darkstar]

the black one looks better ;)

[Sulland]

Black is boring, and that goes for almost any car ! Takes away all the nice lines, so lighter color is better imo !

[Barreis]

Who'll be second driver next season: Sordo/P.Solberg?

[darkstar]

vw in f1? Volkswagen prüft Einstieg in die Formel 1 (http://sport.t-online.de/volkswagen-prueft-einstieg-in-die-formel-1/id_53575918/index)

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.t-online.de%2Fvolkswagen-prueft-einstieg-in-die-formel-1%2Fid_53575918%2Findex&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

[EightGear]

Who'll be second driver next season: Sordo/P.Solberg?

Mikkelsen/Abbring.

[noel157]

Mikkelsen/Abbring.

Mikkelsen I think. There was talk about a junior team as well, no?

[Miika]

Who'll be second driver next season: Sordo/P.Solberg?

Earlier I would have bet on Latvala being the second driver but if Mini goes to dumpster and Sordo is available as well then who knows. Luckily for Mikkelsen/Abbring and co. there will be 3rd and maybe 4th car available as well. Either way I guess there won´t be any announcements about the rest of the line-up until after this season.

[alleskids]

Mikkelsen I think. There was talk about a junior team as well, no?

VW does not need a second established driver, they have already Ogier.
second driver in team 1 will be a youngster who already prooved himself in WRC, being Abbring or Mikkelsen.
the junior team is reserved for Sepp Wiegand, getting exprience without the pressure of scoring manufacturer points

[DonJippo]

VW does not need a second established driver, they have already Ogier.
second driver in team 1 will be a youngster who already prooved himself in WRC, being Abbring or Mikkelsen.

Of course they need, main goal for VW in WRC is to win manufacturers title and with either of these youngsters it wont happen very soon.

[EightGear]

VW clearly stated they don't have the intention to fight for the title straightaway in 2013. I'm sure Ogier will be on the pace and maybe in 2014 (one of) the youngsters will have enough experience and speed so VW *can* win the manu title.

[Franky]

VW clearly stated they don't have the intention to fight for the title straightaway in 2013. I'm sure Ogier will be on the pace and maybe in 2014 (one of) the youngsters will have enough experience and speed so VW *can* win the manu title.

One thing is what you say, the other thing is what you want.

[EightGear]

One thing is what you say, the other thing is what you want.

True, but VW knows better than all of us.

[Barreis]

Don't forget that Sainz is protege of Sordo and is in VW.

[tfp]

Just out of interest, is Louis Moya employed by VW aswel?

[Allyc85]

vw in f1? Volkswagen prüft Einstieg in die Formel 1 (http://sport.t-online.de/volkswagen-prueft-einstieg-in-die-formel-1/id_53575918/index)

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.t-online.de%2Fvolkswagen-prueft-einstieg-in-die-formel-1%2Fid_53575918%2Findex&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

Slow news day? This seems to come up every year!

[alleskids]

Don't forget that Sainz is protege of Sordo and is in VW.

Had the love between them not gone cold some years ago, when Sordo left navigator Marc Marti out of the car? Sainz cannot keep Sordo high an d dry for year after year. Sainz brought Sordo to the WRC, and guided him the first years. Now Sordo is old and big enough to take care of his own business I think.

[WRC12]

Had the love between them not gone cold some years ago, when Sordo left navigator Marc Marti out of the car? Sainz cannot keep Sordo high an d dry for year after year. Sainz brought Sordo to the WRC, and guided him the first years. Now Sordo is old and big enough to take care of his own business I think.

Great job for Sordo in Monte-Carlo.

Sordo old? He's just 28. His contract with Prodrive will finish this year...

[darkstar]

sordo shouldnt be such a bad choice. in my mind he still is a kind of tarmac expert, but defenetly also not bad on gravel. at least he´s also a top 3-5 driver on gravel and he almost never crashes(actually he didn´t have an off that forced him to retire since 2008!). would be perfect for manufacturer points. on tarmac he´s defenetly very, very impressive!

[Barreis]

Sordo is good choice for sure but P.Solberg is better.

[DonJippo]

Sordo is good choice for sure but P.Solberg is better.

Sorry that seat is already taken and neither of these two is on it.

[WRC12]

Sorry that seat is already taken and neither of these two is on it.
:eek:

We'll see.

I think VW has just one driver, and they need another top driver.

[A FONDO]

think less and read more news. Kris Nissen has already told multiple times what the other drivers will be.

[mousti]

Lol. Abbring and Mikkelsen are the ones in pole position.. Sordo was impressive in Monte Carlo and last year. But he his at his peak same thing with Petter. Kevin and Andreas can only grow and grow!

Verstuurd van mijn SK17i met Tapatalk

[Miika]

Lol. Abbring and Mikkelsen are the ones in pole position..

Yes, for the 3rd car.

[N.O.T]

WV haven't decided yet... don't be too hasty giving away 2nd and 3rd seats to drivers basing your information of nobody journalists and their sources...

[Miika]

Either way we have the whole year for guessing games -> if the 2nd seat goes to a driver from another team then it surely won´t be announced until after the season. So lots of riddles and denying and so on before the case is closed.

[Plan9]

Also when VW launched they said they wanted a second team like M-Sport Ford by 2014. I will try to find the source for this.

[RS]

It will be interesting to see how Mikkelsen does against Ogier this year. He lacks some recent experience of WRC events and turbo cars but I think he has plenty of speed.

I know it is taking a little longer for Latvala to mature but Ogier was already pretty useful for Citroen in only his second year.

[N.O.T]

It will be interesting to see how Mikkelsen does against Ogier this year. He lacks some recent experience of WRC events and turbo cars but I think he has plenty of speed.

well they are both using non-turbo cars this year so mikelsen has the advantage there... but right now they are on a different level...Potential champion vs Ladycup competitor

In Sweden mikkelsen might win a few stages...and he is going to be closer to Ogier than normal.

[alleskids]

Abbring wil do Mexico, Portugal, Greece, New Zealand, Germany and Wales.
Mikkelsen wil do Sweden, Argentina, Finland, France, Italy and Spain. so the tarmac final of 2012 will be for Mikkelsen

[Munkvy]

With Juho Hänninen and Jan Kopecky both doing IRC for Skoda again this year, does that mean they will be potentially vying for a seat at VW as well? Obviously they are both talented and already work for the right company, just in a different team... Plus arguably IRC is a better comparison of skill than WRC as there is less of a car difference.

[N.O.T]

Poeple from NZ must be the happiest people on this earth... i envy you.

[mousti]

Lol Kopecky will never make it to a factory seat. The guy has achieved his peak a long time ago, and u see he won't impress us at all in the WRC.

[Munkvy]

Poeple from NZ must be the happiest people on this earth... i envy you.
Well it certainly is a happier place than Greece by all accounts, but I fail to see how that relates to VW.

[N.O.T]

It relates to everything...trust me...and explains a lot as well...

[logic]

well they are both using non-turbo cars this year so mikelsen has the advantage there... but right now they are on a different level...Potential champion vs Ladycup competitor

In Sweden mikkelsen might win a few stages...and he is going to be closer to Ogier than normal.

One has won are cognized championship where as one is known for his speed , crashing abilities and being a whining little bitch .
The latter has not won a recognized championship .

[N.O.T]

One has won are cognized championship where as one is known for his speed , crashing abilities and being a whining little bitch .
The latter has not won a recognized championship .

Ogier won JWRC...

ladycups are ok...no problems with ladycups...but as you can see the goal for ladycup competitors is the big league not the ladycup.

[Carlo]

Poeple from NZ must be the happiest people on this earth... i envy you.

Yes there is a few things going on that brings a smile to ones face, best you make your way out here for the WRC round and stay a few weeks and see what they all are.

[Mintexmemory]

One has won are cognized championship where as one is known for his speed , crashing abilities and being a whining little bitch .
The latter has not won a recognized championship .

Who chose your forum name - Mr Spock? Let's apply the logic that you chose to ignore.
One has won 7 WRC rounds the other hasn't had a podium sniff. As they say you can prove anything with statistics.
One of them had a multiple World Champion so rattled that he pulled the 'favoured-son' clause in his contract.
On a personal level I've found Seb O to be charming with the fans in all situations and from my observations appears to have warm relationships with all other WRC drivers, bar one ;)

[Salist]

A nice fantasy livery:
http://www.duen.hu/hirblogusers/10/blog/pics/thumb_polorwrc.jpg

[Allyc85]

Ogier won JWRC...

ladycups are ok...no problems with ladycups...but as you can see the goal for ladycup competitors is the big league not the ladycup.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How can you not see how stupid you make yourself look? Its no wonder so many people view this forum but dont post because of the **** you do!

[Wim_Impreza]

Lol Kopecky will never make it to a factory seat. The guy has achieved his peak a long time ago, and u see he won't impress us at all in the WRC.

Kopecký took two IRC victories with a very small margin. In my opinion that was great. He did better than the overhyped Neuville last year.

Kopecký wasn't bad in a private Fabia WRC in the WRC and he has beaten factory drivers there. He was 5th overall in a WRC event with the private Fabia WRC, no other private driver can say that he has done this with that car and has beaten other tarmac experts François Duval and Gilles Panizzi when they also drove the same car in 2006. Even the factory drivers in a Fabia WRC had a 5th place as best result in a WRC round.

[mousti]

Offcourse u want to defend it. But he's at his peak he has no growth marge so he's no use for the VW team because they want winners or drivers who have the potential to win alot in the future!

[Mirek]

Kopecký wasn't bad in a private Fabia WRC in the WRC and he has beaten factory drivers there. He was 5th overall in a WRC event with the private Fabia WRC, no other private driver can say that he has done this with that car and has beaten other tarmac experts François Duval and Gilles Panizzi when they also drove the same car in 2006. Even the factory drivers in a Fabia WRC had a 5th place as best result in a WRC round.

It wasn't same car. There was still some development ongoing in CRT with several homologations up to 2007 (You can check it on FIA website). AFAIK no other cars ever had these new parts except those of Kopecký.

[Wim_Impreza]

Offcourse u want to defend it. But he's at his peak he has no growth marge so he's no use for the VW team because they want winners or drivers who have the potential to win alot in the future!

He won as much IRC rounds in 2011 as the IRC champion Mikkelsen and also as much as Neuville...

[RS]

It wasn't same car. There was still some development ongoing in CRT with several homologations up to 2007 (You can check it on FIA website). AFAIK no other cars ever had these new parts except those of Kopecký.

Fact remains that in a private team he achieved far more than the factory team drivers did in the past. But then the factory management at the time was poor and the drivers weren't very good either....

Maybe he might do a couple of tests in the Polo to give VW another perspectiive as he didn't do a bad job developing the Fabia S2000, but I can't see him getting a factory drive. Would clearly be a different story if he was German!

IMO Kopecky would be capable of doing some very good results in WRC, but only on certain events (ie. Germany and Catalunya)

[mousti]

He won as much IRC rounds in 2011 as the IRC champion Mikkelsen and also as much as Neuville...
U don't listen, the guy is at his peak! He has no progress, the guy is almost 30 has much more experience than Neuville who's 23. Who's still learning, and showed he has great growth progress. He has still the potential, Jan hasn't. If Juho seems almost being sidelined by VW, do u think seriously Jan has a chance then.

Well if u do, take those Pink Glasses with the name Kopecky on it, off your head and aknowledge what the reality is..

[Red bull]

MaxRally | News | VW set to monitor Wiegand (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/vw_set_to_monitor_wiegands_irc_exploits/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[dimviii]

Shortly before travelling to Sweden, Sébastien Ogier was given his first taste of the ‘WRC-specification’ Polo R WRC. Prior to that, he had only driven a hybrid Fabia/Polo version

Volkswagen remains in the cold | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/en/2012/02/14/volkswagen-remains-in-the-cold/)

[gtimad73]

any videos of the test?

[Coach 2]

I can confirm that in the Rally Finnskog, it was Rieger on the car to Andreas M.

[Mirek]

In Finnskog it wasn't VW car ;)

[Coach 2]

I no

[danon]

U don't listen... Well if u do, take those Pink Glasses with the name Kopecky on it, off your head and aknowledge what the reality is..

... and you recommend to Wim_Impreza to put this one instead. The guy has opinion!

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5100/pinkglassesn.png

[mousti]

I don't dream, I see reality, Neuville is in WRC growing, Kopecky had his chance, he's at his peak.. No Czech members who should be a bit biased about Kopecky didn't say anything negative about my comments. So I don't think I'm so wrong..

[Miika]

Small preview pics of the snow test in the McKlein site:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2392/vwsweden.jpg

[RS]

VW also used Reiger on the Fabias in Sweden so they could compare them to the Sachs dampers on the Polo test car.

[Red bull]

VW completes full-specification Polo R WRC test in Norway - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97603?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Miika]

If only those images mentioned in the news bit where shown somewhere, bigger than the size of a stamp that is.


http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/evidenza/15435_primo-test-per-la-polo-r-wrc-completa.jpg

[A FONDO]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419735_10150703314833083_52634073082_11616877_1348 137853_n.jpg

[A FONDO]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/425563_10150703566718083_52634073082_11617663_1358 420788_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/425962_10150703560753083_52634073082_11617635_1734 891190_n.jpg

[rallyfiend]

Good to see one of the Dakar trucks getting out for some air!

[Red bull]

Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/start/index.php?flash=ok)

[mousti]

There's a deal in the works around Weijs Jr doing a program in South African Rally Championship with a Polo (S2000 I think) from VW Motorsport. I know Weijs is indeed in South Africa.

[mousti]

Already confirmed now

Weijs Jr already had a spin with the Polo S2000!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vdl1fs.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3AMNkw6cy8

[A.F.F.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3AMNkw6cy8

Not nearly as fast as my Touran but I like it :)

[EightGear]

Interesting story in Autosport magazine. Made a screenshot of it for you guys. ;) (click on it to get a bigger picture)

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4f4fbb53c0026/4f4fbb53b7b56-autosport_vw.thumb.jpg (http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4f4fbb53c0026/4f4fbb53b7b56-autosport_vw.png)

[Miika]

OMGz really?!? Latvala?? I´m shocked.

Not.

[EightGear]

Me neither. Just wanted to share an article not many people on here will be able to read, that's all.

[A FONDO]

Ridiculous article, I'm so glad I stopped reading this magazine long ago.

[Martin Luijk]

Interesting story in Autosport magazine. Made a screenshot of it for you guys. ;) (click on it to get a bigger picture)

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4f4fbb53c0026/4f4fbb53b7b56-autosport_vw.thumb.jpg (http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4f4fbb53c0026/4f4fbb53b7b56-autosport_vw.png)

Really interesting. Naive as I am, I was thinking Abbring had a change for a factory seat. But that's not gonna happen. Maybe he will get a change in a Junior team or something like that.

[N.O.T]

Latvala yes...Solberg no...Sordo most likely...Mikkelsens, Abbrings and the rest must pay and drive for a few more years.

[vkangas]

Latvala definately yes.

I believe preliminary contract has been signed before this season. Latvala's and Hirvonen's manager Timo Jouhki said that one of his drivers is most propably driving VW 2013. That was before Hirvonen went to Citroen. Of course they do not announce the contract until the end of this season.

[Plan9]

Why couldn't they give Andreas the seat? What more does he have to prove? I was sorry to read that Juho has so little experience in a WRC car. I guess there are other teams...

[6789]

Ogier and Latvala would be an awesome team, as long as they keep it on the road!

[Mirek]

OMGz really?!? Latvala?? I´m shocked.

Not.

Talks about JML in VW have been in the air (even here on the forum I believe) for at least a year but in all those other news&rumors they soon became forgotten...

[Rallyper]

Ogier and Latvala would be an awesome team, as long as they keep it on the road!

What´s left for M Sport? Petter and Tanak? Or Petter and PG?

[Miika]

What´s left for M Sport? Petter and Tanak? Or Petter and PG?

Sordo perhaps as well?

[Brother John]

More talk from VW on VW: Latvala neben Ogier?*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/03/02/vw-latvala-neben-ogier/index.html)

VW: Latvala Ogier next?

With Sebastien Ogier, Volkswagen has been one of the best drivers for World Cup entry in 2013 secured, now stretched to the feelers to his future teammates. Jari-Matti Latvala is considered the first choice.

[Rallyper]

With VW in the game I think salaries will raise to maybe the level back in the years when we had 5-10 winners in WRC (4-5 million Euros/year)

I doubt that has been average pay at M Sport for JML and Mikko.

[cali]

Or it could create a situation where other teams either pull out from WRC or other drivers are left with nickles in their pocket.

[Martin Luijk]

Money seems to be no problem to Volkswagen. Why shouldn't they have a third works driver and a Junior team? Maybe their Dakar program is not comparable to their WRC program, but in Dakar they had 5 competitive drivers.