VW News 2012 & WRC 2013

[Rallyper]

I was refering to mattias ekstrom.

Ten years ago he might even not had started his rallycareer. I´ve seen him driving en Evo 4 around 2002, maybe on his fourth or fifth rally so good that he set times not long after swedish champion. The rest of his rally career is history I know but he´s done well all the time he´d driven international rallies. Even a PWRC win in Spain about five years ago. He´s now at his best age starting a WRC career with VW in 2013. Top five almost at once. Believe me!

[N.O.T]

I became a huge fan of Ekstrom the moment he ridiculed the overhyped hamburger boy Paaasonen in Sweden....i think the years are over now, he chose track racing when the time to make the decision was there. And sorry but that top "five almost immediantely" coming from a guy who believes that Icecube is going to be champion in 1 year (or is it 2?) does not have any credibility......

would like to see him in selected events as guest star though

[A.F.F.]

I don't think that anyone except me overhyped Paasonen in this forum. So once again you're totally wrong Mr.Mousefart.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hamburger boy haha

Anyways wouldn't Ogier replace Loeb when he retires? Then P Solberg can take seat number two. Bet no one though that? Hah!

[Rallyper]

I became a huge fan of Ekstrom the moment he ridiculed the overhyped hamburger boy Paaasonen in Sweden....i think the years are over now, he chose track racing when the time to make the decision was there. And sorry but that top "five almost immediantely" coming from a guy who believes that Icecube is going to be champion in 1 year (or is it 2?) does not have any credibility......

would like to see him in selected events as guest star though

Talking about credibility....

However, when I read your quote the first two sentences I think can have some common sence. But as you might well know our quotes are quite subjective. And yes I´ve said KR could be champion in the next few years. And that is more near the truth than your dissing and humiliating quotes of a guy doing top five results the second season.

[J.Lindstroem]

Talking about credibility....

However, when I read your quote the first two sentences I think can have some common sence. But as you might well know our quotes are quite subjective. And yes I´ve said KR could be champion in the next few years. And that is more near the truth than your diisng and humiliating quotes of a guy doing top five results the second season.

Top five is not so impressive, though.

[Rallyper]

Well, more impressive than PG and a bunch of other WRC-guys have managed so far this year.

[J.Lindstroem]

Thats true! Its all about getting to the finish, and Räikkönen has been doing that in the top 8 on the rallies he has started. Great! But looking at the stagetimes it is not so impressive pace from him, and saying that he can be champion material is judging from that very unrealistic. He is a good rallydriver, but he will never even win a rally. Ever.

[Rallyper]

Thats true! Its all about getting to the finish, and Räikkönen has been doing that in the top 8 on the rallies he has started. Great! But looking at the stagetimes it is not so impressive pace from him, and saying that he can be champion material is judging from that very unrealistic. He is a good rallydriver, but he will never even win a rally. Ever.

Kimi´s still learning....

[Sulland]

Did Nissen say anything on why they are not doing it like Mini, taking on a few events in 2012 to collect data and find the gremlins on a new car ?

[Mirek]

Who said they wouldn't do that? They have another brand for testing in real conditions.

[Sulland]

Yes but read somewhere that the plan was to start in 2013, and not do anything but testing in 12, but did not think of the obvious Skoda option.

[N.O.T]

Kimi´s still learning....


lol...fast learner....

[Spanish]

After having forced to leave SEAT the WTCC, and Skoda the WRC, this looks another ridiculous marketing project by the VAG group! but the car is a nice tunning idea! I hope more news in the future about this car...

[Rallyper]

For sure. :s mokin:

[Barreis]

Best news of the year so far.

[FAL]

Not sure what sort of moment it may be but it doesn't belong here. This section is for history. There is an appropriate "modern" section.

[D-Type]

I totally agree. I have merged it into the existing thread in the WRC forum

Duncan (Moderator)

[Sulland]

I just hope Skoda can continue with class 1 and VW only in WRC.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I smell Carlos Sainz.... haha

[mousti]

Kimi´s still learning....
Mathew Wilson also and we see where that's going..

If he's going to be a champion ever he would already showed some very nice things in a rally, since in WRC with the Punto never saw him doing that yet..

[MJW]

Three car team from VW in 2013, interesting stuff again on the excellent http://www.gpweek.com

[AndyRAC]

Three car team from VW in 2013, interesting stuff again on the excellent http://www.gpweek.com

Yes, as all teams should be.

[DonJippo]

Yes, as all teams should be.

Ford has three car team, has it made WRC better? Rules needs to be changed to have a real reason for teams to have three competitive drivers in their team otherwise also in VW will have two drivers and one tourist driving in the team.

[GigiGalliNo1]

3 cars to score points for Drivers but 2 drivers for Team points? Silly... or not..

[mousti]

Ford has three car team, has it made WRC better? Rules needs to be changed to have a real reason for teams to have three competitive drivers in their team otherwise also in VW will have two drivers and one tourist driving in the team.
What's the difference they could easily change team name for 3rd driver will not harm anyone and everything just stay the same.

[Mirek]

I would made it the way that two best team cars of three get manufacturer points.

[Sulland]

So in GPWeek it was in clear: In the last half of 2011 Skoda will have 2 new cars in WRC. We will use them for testing in 2011 and 2012 !
Nissen also said that both VW and Skoda could be in WRC, and could share the coffee tab and fight for the champagne !!

Would be nice, but doubt that the VAG leadership would share the total tab, and not just the drinks :)

[A.F.F.]

I would made it the way that two best team cars of three get manufacturer points.

It has been done and it failed :(

[A.F.F.]

So in GPWeek it was in clear: In the last half of 2011 Skoda will have 2 new cars in WRC. We will use them for testing in 2011 and 2012 !
Nissen also said that both VW and Skoda could be in WRC, and could share the coffee tab and fight for the champagne !!

Would be nice, but doubt that the VAG leadership would share the total tab, and not just the drinks :)

That would be so cool..... and I can keep on dreaming...

[Plan9]

Could Mikkelsen be a factor? I'm a bit skeptical about VW and Skoda competing against each other with basically the same car.

[Mirek]

I'm also skeptic. For sure we will see Škoda 1.6T in WRC soon but in my opinion only as slightly slower S2000 spec. I really doubt that VW would allow them to register for championship (necessary for WRC kit homologation).

[RS]

So in GPWeek it was in clear: In the last half of 2011 Skoda will have 2 new cars in WRC. We will use them for testing in 2011 and 2012 !


I think what he means is that VW people will work at Red Bull Skoda later this year. With a 1.6T only from next year I guess?

Someone else asked about Mikkelsen, I guess he is a more serious option than a German driver at the moment. Let's see if he "steps up to the plate" in IRC this year.

[Sulland]

Why not compete with the 1600T engine in the Fabia in WRC rallies as soon as possible. No better testground than a rally with a number on the door.

But thinking back to the S2000 Fabia they tested for a long time in CZ, and that turned out well as well. So lets see !

[RS]

Further info on VWs plans are detailed in Motorsport News today; from Finland onwards Nasser Al-Attiyah will drive a Fabia S2000 serviced by VW Motorsport. He will do every remaining WRC round this year apart from Australia.

[Hartusvuori]

Further info on VWs plans are detailed in Motorsport News today; from Finland onwards Nasser Al-Attiyah will drive a Fabia S2000 serviced by VW Motorsport. He will do every remaining WRC round this year apart from Australia.

Nice to have Nasser back flying in Finland. Was there anything about a second, "more local" driver in that team? I remember reading about that perhaps in Autosport's article.

[6789]

Further info on VWs plans are detailed in Motorsport News today; from Finland onwards Nasser Al-Attiyah will drive a Fabia S2000 serviced by VW Motorsport. He will do every remaining WRC round this year apart from Australia.
:(

[JRodrigues]

I think they will have some drivers driving the Fabia and compare the times, so they can choose.

[RS]

Nice to have Nasser back flying in Finland. Was there anything about a second, "more local" driver in that team? I remember reading about that perhaps in Autosport's article.

No, just that they would run the car on "a programme of events" next year too.

[Plan9]

Any early pick on drivers then? I'd have to say I would pick a combination of Nasser and Mikkelsen, plus another. Hanninen, Petter I'm not so sure about

[Miika]

Has this been mentioned here yet?


http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/1029/vwautosportmay2010.jpg

[Daniel]

This is all looking very positive. Being VW they'll have money and also the desire to beat Citroen whereas M-Sport seem to be happy coming 2nd.

If 3 car teams returned it would be muchos fantasticos

[J.Lindstroem]

A young Michelle Mouton? :O

[N.O.T]

If the VW project works its the end of M-Sport.

[Daniel]

If the VW project works its the end of M-Sport.

We can only hope :D I think people are happy to buy Focus WRC's and Fester WRC's when they're the 2nd best and probably cheaper than a Citroen, but if you can get a Mini or a Polo which is better? :D As much as I dislike Mini's and I hate VW's, I want them to do well in the WRC.

[Mirek]

VW people are very very serious about the project. I expect big things to come...

[Daniel]

VW people are very very serious about the project. I expect big things to come...

Well we've seen serious people before. But this is VW, they've got a lot of money to throw at this. It would be fantastic if they actually did a roadcar version.

I just hope that they take a look at M-Sport and promise NOT to do what Malcolm is doing! Hire proper drivers, fire drivers if they're crap, develop new talent and just spend their money intelligently.

[Rallyper]

Serious means hiring at least two world class driver and the third car to a coming young Michelle Mouton if she exists.

I say Mattias Ekstrom..... (not as young female driver, but as one of two top drivers)

[Walach]

I don´t think Ekstrom is top RALLY driver capable of winning rallies in WRC.

[N.O.T]

Serious means hiring at least two world class driver and the third car to a coming young Michelle Mouton if she exists.

I say Mattias Ekstrom..... (not as young female driver, but as one of two top drivers)

and what about icecube? ... he is going to be champion by 2012 so his price may rise...they must move fast...

[OldF]

How about Ogier then?

Kris Nissen: “Rather Ogier than Loeb”

Autohebo (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autohebdo.fr%2Frallye%2Fwrc%2Fa rticle-26-1-6747%2F110511-vw-en-wrc-avec-ogier-plutot-que-loeb)

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autohebdo.fr%2Frallye%2Fwrc%2Fa rticle-26-1-6747%2F110511-vw-en-wrc-avec-ogier-plutot-que-loeb

[Daniel]

Matthew Wilson?

[Tomi]

I think the third car is for some German driver, good thing with a new team is also that it brings moves in the driver market, I hope that Latvala would get a chance in VW, M-Sport is an o.k. team, but short on resourses compaired to real factory teams.

[Daniel]

Would be interesting to see what Latvala could do in a professional team with proper resources

[Barreis]

Latvala will be relaxed about crashin' then.

[Mirek]

How about Ogier then?

Almost all fast drivers are possible in the moment. It's early for final decision but they aim high...

[Tomi]

Almost all fast drivers are possible in the moment. It's early for final decision but they aim high...

I think you are right, but there is not many of those who can win rallies around, if they are serious like it seem they need a profile driver for sure, the Audi Quattro times are gone long time ago already.

[Daniel]

Latvala will be relaxed about crashin' then.

I think in an environment where one moment his boss is telling him to drive 100% and then back off to let his compeition through, Latvala would probably thrive.

[wildsir]

Driver Market hotting up... Show me youuur moneeeey!

[sollitt]

A young Michelle Mouton? :O The world's top ranked female rally driver is alive and well down in New Zealand and I'm sure she's not averse to driving VW's very quickly.

[noel157]

Forget Ekstrom. Not even sure Nasser would be a suitable candidate. Is Grassner showing any potential? Expected more of him.
PG would not be a bad choice if he got settled and knew that his team had the funds to let him be himself on the stages.
Petter and/or Hanninen would work and maybe Mikkelsen.
Females? There's an Irish girl called Amy Cox, only 17, but showing good early potential

[Plan9]

I'm thinking that 1 of the driver at M-Sport could be lured away if they found that they could get a quick championship with the VW. I was thinking in particular about Hirvonen and Ostberg. I don't think they will want to wait till Loeb gives up before they can come within a shout of winning the title.
If VW choose a girl I think it will be someone who can fulfill the role that Danica Patrick performs in IRL. Talent will not be necessary.
Nasser is almost guaranteed a seat as he has money from castrol/Middle East.

[Tomi]

I dont think they will sign any female driver, simply because there is not anyone good enough, and just to do it for marketing reasons sounds more like prodrive stuff, not really what a serious rally factory team would do.

[Hartusvuori]

Before you start dropping names of young female drivers, had any of you thought Nissen might have meant the talent of Michelle Mouton rather than sex?

[wildsir]

How about Ogier then?

Kris Nissen: “Rather Ogier than Loeb”

Autohebo (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autohebdo.fr%2Frallye%2Fwrc%2Fa rticle-26-1-6747%2F110511-vw-en-wrc-avec-ogier-plutot-que-loeb)

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autohebdo.fr%2Frallye%2Fwrc%2Fa rticle-26-1-6747%2F110511-vw-en-wrc-avec-ogier-plutot-que-loeb
Hartusvuori.. Maybe he kicks with the left foot..

[MJW]

I gues Loeb would be a logical choice based on this criteria.
He is already a 7 times world champion, and before anyone forgets it he is leading this years championship before we get to the tarmac rallies, based on that he is very likely to be 8 times consequtive champion of the world, an amazing acheivement. What does he do? continue in Citroen and fight Ogier in the same car again? Retire and remain a Citroen ambassador, or does he say, a bit of a sabbatical, test and develop the VW Polo, maybe LeMans with Audi, perhaps a guest DTM race with Audi, re-charge his batteries, keep the motivation. Come back in 2013 for a year and try and do a Valentino Rossi.
For all we can speculate on this forum its too early to rewally know who will drive for VW, I dont think anything much will happen until after NORF and when we get to teh silly season, but Loeb is the key player.

[Daniel]

I gues Loeb would be a logical choice based on this criteria.
He is already a 7 times world champion, and before anyone forgets it he is leading this years championship before we get to the tarmac rallies, based on that he is very likely to be 8 times consequtive champion of the world, an amazing acheivement. What does he do? continue in Citroen and fight Ogier in the same car again? Retire and remain a Citroen ambassador, or does he say, a bit of a sabbatical, test and develop the VW Polo, maybe LeMans with Audi, perhaps a guest DTM race with Audi, re-charge his batteries, keep the motivation. Come back in 2013 for a year and try and do a Valentino Rossi.
For all we can speculate on this forum its too early to rewally know who will drive for VW, I dont think anything much will happen until after NORF and when we get to teh silly season, but Loeb is the key player.

I see Sebastien driving for Peugeot in Le Mans personally. I'd kill myself just so I could spin in my own grave if he drove for Audi! :p

[Tomi]

I belive Loebs serious rally driving is soon done, when he stops he stop, there is nothing to proof, maybe he shows his face in some village rallies now and then like champs uses too.

[Daniel]

I belive Loebs serious rally driving is soon done, when he stops he stop, there is nothing to proof, maybe he shows his face in some village rallies now and then like champs uses too.

Just curious Tomi, do you watch the 24 hours @ Le Mans at all? Is it the sort of thing that's popular in Finland?

[Tomi]

Just curious Tomi, do you watch the 24 hours @ Le Mans at all? Is it the sort of thing that's popular in Finland?

Not really, I watch only WRC and follow national rally, thats it. :) I dont think Le Mans is so popular here, F1 and Rally I think is most popular of motorsport with cars.

[AndyRAC]

I could see Loeb doing Le Mans with Peugeot, but not Audi. Dr Ulrich doesn't seem to be the type of person to do such things.

[AndyRAC]

Quesnel's worst nightmare??
Following Audi's win at Le Mans - does this show what the VW Group are capable of, and what the future holds for the PSA v VW Group in the WRC?

[N.O.T]

hmmm...we will see. Rallying is a different story and far more complex and difficult than running in circles.

[Mirek]

Quesnel's worst nightmare??
Following Audi's win at Le Mans - does this show what the VW Group are capable of, and what the future holds for the PSA v VW Group in the WRC?

They are not going to WRC to play the crowds. They have almost unlimited resources and are ready to spend them. If it's enough, we'll see but I expect them to be very serious contender.

[Sulland]

I dont like the rumours from Mirek that the 1600T development has stopped in CZ. Is VAG moving the whole ops to DEU?

Is there one VAG Motorsport shop or are the VW and Audi sport shops totally separate ?

[AndyRAC]

They are not going to WRC to play the crowds. They have almost unlimited resources and are ready to spend them. If it's enough, we'll see but I expect them to be very serious contender.

Exactly! If they're as serious about the WRC as they are about Le Mans, then watch out. They will win.

[Daniel]

Exactly! If they're as serious about the WRC as they are about Le Mans, then watch out. They will win.

Yes but the WRC isn't as simple as spending money :) 307 Crap Cabriolet WRCar anyone?

[MJW]

Same with Toyota in F1, no limits on the budget, but no results to show for it. I also heared that when Skoda was run by Mulheimer that their budget was next to PSA, but the Germanic ethos worked against success. Having said that I fully expect VW WRC to be a superb effort, Citroen will fight against them, who wins we will see, and we are in for a great show.

[Maui J.]

Exactly! If they're as serious about the WRC as they are about Le Mans, then watch out. They will win.

I agree, the car should be a winner, but the other part of the equation is who will drive it to make it win. VW need a star driver.

Loeb? probably not as he will retire or stay loyal to Citroen
Ogier? he should become number 1 at Citroen, once Loeb retires, so would be silly to move camp
Latvala? Loyal to Ford
Sordo? Maybe, no loyality at Mini...yet
Petter? In my opinion, I would offer him a drive. Getting older but still super quick as we know.

A German driver? Can't really see another Walter Rohrl at the moment

So maybe they need to start developing a young driver as soon as possible
Tanak? signed to MSport already I believe
Nikara?
Novikov?
Mikkelssen?

To me it looks as Juho Hanninen is in the right place and the right car at the moment to step up.

[alleskids]

Same with Toyota in F1, no limits on the budget, but no results to show for it. I also heared that when Skoda was run by Mulheimer that their budget was next to PSA, but the Germanic ethos worked against success.

Privateer Skoda Fabia WRcars showed much potential, so what did mr Mulheimer do wrong? Was it like the Peugeot engineers finding themself too much important to listen to simple rally drivers, or wasted they logistic materials and research budget?
Toyota F1 went wrong because of Japanese managment did not listen to lower working guy and exept critic and engineers did not dare to be critic to bosses

[alleskids]

Nasser Al Attiyah will drive the VW Motorosport Skoda Fabia S2000 in Finland. But VW will invite several young talented drivers to test them. Who can we expect in 2011?

[Mirek]

I agree, the car should be a winner, but the other part of the equation is who will drive it to make it win. VW need a star driver.

Loeb? probably not as he will retire or stay loyal to Citroen
Ogier? he should become number 1 at Citroen, once Loeb retires, so would be silly to move camp
Latvala? Loyal to Ford
Sordo? Maybe, no loyality at Mini...yet
Petter? In my opinion, I would offer him a drive. Getting older but still super quick as we know.

A German driver? Can't really see another Walter Rohrl at the moment

So maybe they need to start developing a young driver as soon as possible
Tanak? signed to MSport already I believe
Nikara?
Novikov?
Mikkelssen?

To me it looks as Juho Hanninen is in the right place and the right car at the moment to step up.

AFAIK almost all You mentioned are in contact with VW about 2013 season...

Any new info regarding the rumor that Xavier Mastelan leaves Citroën for VW?

[MJW]

AFAIK almost all You mentioned are in contact with VW about 2013 season...

Any new info regarding the rumor that Xavier Mastelan leaves Citroën for VW?
I havent got confirmation that XM is leaving. As far as I know its FX Demaison who is heading the engineering.

[Sulland]

Their biggest challenge is lack of data, compared to the two others. They have tonnes of data on how to get a quick WRCar.

Their best option is to get a 1600T engine in regional spec into the car ASAP and start doing rallies in all places they can, also in WRC. Collecting data in a Fabia S2000NA is not the same.

[dimviii]

I havent got confirmation that XM is leaving. As far as I know its FX Demaison who is heading the engineering.

If this rumour is true,they are serious about rallying.

[tolis]

Finally confirmed: Rally addicted www.xwmatinos.gr (http://www.xwmatinos.gr/xwma/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1764) - ÁðïêëåéóôéêÜ óôï xwmatinos.gr: ÕðÝãñáøå ìå ôç VW o Al- Attiyah!
Nasser signed with VW for 3 years!

[N.O.T]

an expected private entry deal.....

the interview states that this driver who has more exclusions due to illegal cars than entries to rallies, will drive a skoda s2000 in 2012 and then he will spend some millions to drive the wrc of the team in 2013 in all rounds. I would hardly call this thing a signing.since its more of a private deal many tourists have done and do with WRC teams.

[dimviii]

Finally confirmed: Rally addicted www.xwmatinos.gr (http://www.xwmatinos.gr/xwma/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1764) - ÁðïêëåéóôéêÜ óôï xwmatinos.gr: ÕðÝãñáøå ìå ôç VW o Al- Attiyah!
Nasser signed with VW for 3 years!

i take back my comment at #335...

any other news from Nasser Tolis? spill the beans!!

[N.O.T]

why ?? WV did not contact nasser, he went there and offered them his millions ...... why would they say no? did ford say no to kupiers ? and citroen to merkenstjein ?

[dimviii]

why ?? WV did not contact nasser, he went there and offered them his millions ...... why would they say no? did ford say no to kupiers ? and citroen to merkenstjein ?

Thats a different aproach Greg.It is very strange though to pay for 3 years without knowing any about the car.I undestant that vw signed him,and not that he payed for his seat.

[N.O.T]

You understood wrong....

Tourist drivers do not care about the car or performance....Nasser knows that WV has a plan to stay so he secured a car to enjoy some tourism.

Its a private deal not a contract with the WV team.

[dimviii]

You understood wrong....

Tourist drivers do not care about the car or performance....Nasser knows that WV has a plan to stay so he secured a car to enjoy some tourism.

Its a private deal not a contract with the WV team.
Still very strange cause of the ''3 years''.Next 1-2 years are going to be available a lot of wrc cars,so i can t see Nasser to be in a hurry to contract-pay for 3 years for an unknown car in terms of speed/reliability,unless he is payed.
lets wait for more info.

[N.O.T]

LOL...

i give up.....

[Barreis]

In works teams it should never be paying drivers. It's not sporty.

[dimviii]

LOL...

i give up.....

dont laugh and give up,just tell us another example in wrc history where a pay driver contracted for 3 years without even have seen the car.

[N.O.T]

i prefer to give up and laugh... sorry...

there is not much i can say and argue to people who believe that a company like WV will PAY REAL MONEY to Nasser for driving their cars..... is like believing that WIlson is getting his drive because he has sponsors and not his daddy.

and if you read the interview it says that they search for 2 more drivers...so what is the point in paying 3 drivers when they can only nominate 2 ??? and one of them will be Nasser ???

It is too early for anything....the interview itself has no substance since it comes from a tourist driver and not from someone working at WV...Nasser can say and believe whatever he wants.

It is a private/paying entry and that is that.

[dimviii]

i prefer to give up and laugh... sorry...

there is not much i can say and argue to people who believe that a company like WV will PAY REAL MONEY to Nasser for driving their cars..... is like believing that WIlson is getting his drive because he has sponsors and not his daddy..
same manufacture had payed in grA days Weber and Kleint.If they are going to make the same mistakes yes its possible.


and if you read the interview it says that they search for 2 more drivers...so what is the point in paying 3 drivers when they can only nominate 2 ??? and one of them will be Nasser ???..
There are roumors about changing the 2 drivers to 3 for works teams.Be sure that vw and Nasser will know it before you and me.


It is too early for anything....the interview itself has no substance since it comes from a tourist driver and not from someone working at WV...Nasser can say and believe whatever he wants..
Your only right words.




It is a private/paying entry and that is that.
How did you thought that,while you can t find an example from last 30 years,with another driver to have pay for 3 years while he haven t even see the car?
Thats really laughable..

[N.O.T]

Arai

[dimviii]

Arai

when,which car?

[N.O.T]

And in the Group A days...it was a golden age of salaries and opportunities in rallying..... Lancia payed Biasion for christ sake !!!!!!!

Can you name a driver of the caliber of Nasser who got payed by a manufacturer (not sponsors) in the recent years to drive ?

[N.O.T]

when,which car?

Subaru 2008 Grp N, the deal i think was for 4 years initially but the folding of the team forced him out and only did promotional drives in japan at the end.

[Plan9]

I'm not sure Haninnen would want to stay at VAG after the way he's been messed around in the IRC/SWRC mess. I can't see Petter either at this stage due to his results. I think Nasser will be quite good at developing the car as he was quite potent in the Dakar/Raid series.

[N.O.T]

to end this pointles discussion....there is no logic to sign Nasser to a paying contract especially when you have 2 drivers ready to go in your little sisters team (Kopecky and Hanninen)

As i said its too early and you can believe whatever or whoever you want unfortunatelly this is a democracy...so if you want to believe that Nasser will get payed its ok...and they will pay him although they do not know if we are going to have 3 cars in 2013 then its also ok...

[N.O.T]

I'm not sure Haninnen would want to stay at VAG after the way he's been messed around in the IRC/SWRC mess. I can't see Petter either at this stage due to his results. I think Nasser will be quite good at developing the car as he was quite potent in the Dakar/Raid series.

so you do not see petter as a valid option but you see nasser.....

nice....

very nice....

[dimviii]

And in the Group A days...it was a golden age of salaries and opportunities in rallying..... Lancia payed Biasion for christ sake !!!!!!!?

Biasion gained 2 world championships,do NOT know that for christ sake?


Can you name a driver of the caliber of Nasser who got payed by a manufacturer (not sponsors) in the recent years to drive ?
Shwartz

[N.O.T]

Biasion gained 2 world championships,do NOT know that for christ sake?


Shwartz

LOL at the biggest fraud of rallying....

Shwartz and triner were 15 years ago.....

[dimviii]

Subaru 2008 Grp N, the deal i think was for 4 years initially but the folding of the team forced him out and only did promotional drives in japan at the end.
Which deal are you talking? Arai had his team which prepared grN sti even till now.Arai is one of three teams choosed by subaru japan to evolution the n14 togather with Barratero and Tmr.Have you got any clue what are you talking?

[dimviii]

LOL at the biggest fraud of rallying....

Shwartz and triner were 15 years ago.....

Shwartzs last rally was at 2005.

[N.O.T]

Which deal are you talking? Arai had his team which prepared grN sti even till now.Arai is one of three teams choosed by subaru japan to evolution the n14 togather with Barratero and Tmr.Have you got any clue what are you talking?

I am talking about TEAM Arai, his team as you said was chosen from subaru japan to represent them....

[N.O.T]

Shwartzs last rally was at 2005.

You are right.... forgot he did a 2 season when the team returned i was remembering the 2001 season before he moved to hyundai.

[dimviii]

I am talking about TEAM Arai, his team as you said was chosen from subaru japan to represent them....

Arai as you said was payed to help the evolution of n14-15-16.Thats not a pay driver.

[Mirek]

This is really ridiculous discussion :D

By the way NOT, almost all IRC works drivers have been paid by their teams and they are mostly comparable with Nasser. Those like Kopecký, Bouffier, Vouilloz, Basso, Rossetti, Alister McRae or even Navarra...

Nasser has been works driver of VW for ages in Dakar, so it's very likely he will continue in any kind of cooperation. Who cares if it's him who pays the bills or VW? Frankly I don't give a sh... about that. Either case it's not mine money being spent, so what...

Or... maybe if VW pays Nasser -> they would pay less taxes -> less money will turn into aid for Greece? :D

[N.O.T]

i am confused now....

In IRC the drivers are getting payed by their respective manufacturer of their country (e.g Wilks is getting payed by Peugeot UK) and not the official manufacturer ?? or i am wrong with this ??

Arai/Nutahara are getting payed by Subaru Japan (which is also the main manufacturer).

As for the Nasset case...it does matter who pays the bill when it comes to the WRC team...lets not forget that nasser drives for ford now and i doubt VW will have a contract to pay a driver driving for a different team....i do not think that the Germans keep paying Nasser for their dakar project nowadays that he drives for ford.

[Mirek]

In IRC the drivers are getting payed by their respective manufacturer of their country (e.g Wilks is getting payed by Peugeot UK) and not the official manufacturer ?? or i am wrong with this ??

Yes, You are. I haven't named any driver which was driving for national importers but only true works drivers.

[N.O.T]

ah yes from the ones you mention you are right but you forgot hanninen i think...

[Tomi]

I'm not sure Haninnen would want to stay at VAG after the way he's been messed around in the IRC/SWRC mess. I can't see Petter either at this stage due to his results. I think Nasser will be quite good at developing the car as he was quite potent in the Dakar/Raid series.

Lol, do you seriously belive that drivers like for instance Hänninen actually has many possibilities to choose from if they want to drive workscars, I cant think of any privateer who would have refused a factory seat in WRC.

[Plan9]

Lol, do you seriously belive that drivers like for instance Hänninen actually has many possibilities to choose from if they want to drive workscars, I cant think of any privateer who would have refused a factory seat in WRC.

I think Haninnen would turn down VW for Ford if the money was right. It must be frustrating to know you are the best driver that Skoda has but actually find that lesser drivers are being favoured as I am sure Kopecy is. Further, who knows how long it will take for VW to be on the pace, I for one don't think Haninnen will wait forever to win things.

[Plan9]

so you do not see petter as a valid option but you see nasser.....

nice....

very nice....

I think Nasser drings more money and access to the middle east. As you may know VW is partly owned by Middle Eastern interests and I think they will want to have a familiar face around. Petter does not have that kind of power unfortunatley, secondly I don't think he would want to drive a s2000 car occasionally in 2012 while waiting for 2013. I think he would prefer to stay an independent driver with Citroen and at least have some change of winning the title (however slim it may be)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Nasser had a falling out with Skoda last year I believe hence the change of car to Ford. Skoda couldn't supply the parts straight away or something along the lines and he wasnt happy!! He's using a Ford car and don't think this has ruined the relationship between him and VW!! I think a driver who can bring in money is an asset to the team for a manufacture!

[MJW]

Nasser had a falling out with Skoda last year I believe hence the change of car to Ford. Skoda couldn't supply the parts straight away or something along the lines and he wasnt happy!! He's using a Ford car and don't think this has ruined the relationship between him and VW!! I think a driver who can bring in money is an asset to the team for a manufacture!

The falling out wasnt with Skoda, it was with Rene Georges who was running the Skoda

[Mirek]

I think Haninnen would turn down VW for Ford if the money was right. It must be frustrating to know you are the best driver that Skoda has but actually find that lesser drivers are being favoured as I am sure Kopecy is. Further, who knows how long it will take for VW to be on the pace, I for one don't think Haninnen will wait forever to win things.

Hänninen is in SWRC because this is the only way to go in WRC events with current Škoda machinery. Originally it wasn't planned to put him in IRC except several high profile events such as Monte Carlo but that changed and he is fighting for both championships now (seems like they see Kopecký can't win the title). He won't do all rounds but none of IRC regulars does all of them either. Besides that Juho always wanted to go to WRC, so I don't think he feels any problem with driving in SWRC. And by the way he always says he wants to drive every possible rally so I don't see any problem for him in driving double portion :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

The falling out wasnt with Skoda, it was with Rene Georges who was running the Skoda

Well there we go :) Nasser didn't tell me the whole story but that's what I understood at the time!

Can anyone, on another note tell me what drivers/plans VW have for this year? They're choosing who? to drive S2000 Fabias for testing and when??

[alleskids]

I'm not sure Haninnen would want to stay at VAG after the way he's been messed around in the IRC/SWRC mess.

It is Hanninens own chooise to do (7 rallies in) SWRC plus as many as can be done logistical and humanly in IRC. So why and by who is he messed? Skoda/VW have arranged Hanninen and Grassner in SWRC to gain data, as representatives of VAG

[Hartusvuori]

Finnish News Agency STT interviewed Hänninen today prior to Acropolis, pressing him with questions concerning possible VW deal. He keeps saying that it is driving and results that matters the most and he will keep continue concentrating on them. There has been no talks with VW, but he is sure they know his name. "Skoda and VW link does no harm to me, but in the end it's about driving results." Hänninen's current deal with Skoda ends this year, but he says it's not ruled out that he would continue with Skoda in 2012: "They'll propably have some kind of program for 2012 and continueing with the team would be good."

[Allar]

Is it possible for Mikkelsen to get a driverseat in WV too? He have the speed :eek:

[pantealex]

Can anyone, on another note tell me what drivers/plans VW have for this year? They're choosing who? to drive S2000 Fabias for testing and when??

5 events (Finland, Germany, France, Spain and Wales)
with 3 cars in all (Fabia S2000)
Nasser + "pro driver" + "young gun" and those 2 can also be other than local drivers!

[tolis]

Finnish News Agency STT interviewed Hänninen today prior to Acropolis, pressing him with questions concerning possible VW deal. He keeps saying that it is driving and results that matters the most and he will keep continue concentrating on them. There has been no talks with VW, but he is sure they know his name. "Skoda and VW link does no harm to me, but in the end it's about driving results." Hänninen's current deal with Skoda ends this year, but he says it's not ruled out that he would continue with Skoda in 2012: "They'll propably have some kind of program for 2012 and continueing with the team would be good."
He told me the same yesterday! :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

5 events (Finland, Germany, France, Spain and Wales)
with 3 cars in all (Fabia S2000)
Nasser + "pro driver" + "young gun" and those 2 can also be other than local drivers!

What kind of "Pro Driver" are they talking about? IRC Champion, WRC Champion (Sainz? :D ) F1 driver? It could mean anything with ze Germans?? DTM?? ;)

[mousti]

It is Hanninens own chooise to do (7 rallies in) SWRC plus as many as can be done logistical and humanly in IRC. So why and by who is he messed? Skoda/VW have arranged Hanninen and Grassner in SWRC to gain data, as representatives of VAG

Maybe a bit for SWRC although Skoda will be the boss about it because they are paying the whole stuff (or maybe Redbull also a bit for SWRC) . For IRC like Mirek says a classic like Monte Carlo. Yalta was because of local importer but Azores seems now be a possibility too because it's gravel and they don't see Kopecky winning I think and Barum offcourse there home country they don't want to lose there and maybe more if they see Kopecky will not win title. I don't think they really care much about Loix because he's more of a BFO driver then a Skoda driver.

[Mirek]

I think that Juho will do those 7 events which counts. Now he has already 3 (Monte, Canarias, Yalta), than maybe Acores, sure Barum. So at least two more needed from the five others (Madeira, Mecsek, Sanremo, Cyprus, Scotland).

[mousti]

I think that Juho will do those 7 events which counts. Now he has already 3 (Monte, Canarias, Yalta), than maybe Acores, sure Barum. So at least two more needed from the five others (Madeira, Mecsek, Sanremo, Cyprus, Scotland).

Sanremo is a classic so he may start there because Ucci and the Abarths were going very well last year and Kopecky couldn't follow the pace so good. And maybe one gravel event like Cyprus especially with getting so much points there.

[alleskids]

Scotland and Cyprus give double points, so every seriuous title candidate has to be in Scotland and Cyprus, not only for there own changes, but also to steal points from others So Hanninen will concentrate on these event. He has a good change for a new title.

[mousti]

Scotland and Cyprus give double points, so every seriuous title candidate has to be in Scotland and Cyprus, not only for there own changes, but also to steal points from others So Hanninen will concentrate on these event. He has a good change for a new title.
Loix (may not mess it up in Ypres) hasn't either on program but they'll implement them if they see he can win the title, Neuville has only Scotland on his program. What Hanninen will do is Skoda's call.

[RICARDO75]

Scotland and Cyprus give double points, so every seriuous title candidate has to be in Scotland and Cyprus, not only for there own changes, but also to steal points from others So Hanninen will concentrate on these event. He has a good change for a new title.

Scotland will not have double points:
Coefficients will be applied to the scoring system of the following events:
14-16 October - RAC MSA Rally of Scotland - Coefficient 1.5
03-05 November - Cyprus Rally - Coefficient 2

[alleskids]

Scotland will not have double points:
Coefficients will be applied to the scoring system of the following events:
14-16 October - RAC MSA Rally of Scotland - Coefficient 1.5
03-05 November - Cyprus Rally - Coefficient 2

OK not double the points, but Scotland has a lot more points to offer for competitors then the other rallies, so saving budget for Scotand (and Cyprus) will be a smart move.

[Plan9]

I find the comments about Haninnen interesting. I was just thinking that someone of his talent and age would want to hurry his career along. Unfortubaltey I do notknow of many website that carry up-to-date infor about him. Do you guys know of any good sources?

[wildsir]

I find the comments about Haninnen interesting. I was just thinking that someone of his talent and age would want to hurry his career along. Unfortubaltey I do notknow of many website that carry up-to-date infor about him. Do you guys know of any good sources?

He can't make VW sign him.

As he says, he just needs to concentrate on getting results. His people will look after negotiations.

[Plan9]

He can't make VW sign him.

As he says, he just needs to concentrate on getting results. His people will look after negotiations.
+1 I agree.
I wonder if Nasser will be the dominant driver in this team (as MS is at mercedes gp). Do you think that the VW team will be competitive of be a bit like germany's other major ventures into world wide motorsport?

[AndyRAC]

+1 I agree.
I wonder if Nasser will be the dominant driver in this team (as MS is at mercedes gp). Do you think that the VW team will be competitive of be a bit like germany's other major ventures into world wide motorsport?

I’d hope that Nasser isn’t the main driver at VW. His CV doesn’t warrant being a No1 or No2 driver – he might be a good development driver, but he’s done nothing to suggest he’s a top driver. Looking at the Audi Sportscar effort – they don’t carry any passengers(or pay drivers) – they’re all very good drivers who have delivered when asked. I’d have thought the VW WRC effort would be run the same way.

[I am evil Homer]

Not sure about Hanninen...he'd be a good driver for the team for sure, but not leading VWs entry into WRC.

[Plan9]

I’d hope that Nasser isn’t the main driver at VW. His CV doesn’t warrant being a No1 or No2 driver – he might be a good development driver, but he’s done nothing to suggest he’s a top driver. Looking at the Audi Sportscar effort – they don’t carry any passengers(or pay drivers) – they’re all very good drivers who have delivered when asked. I’d have thought the VW WRC effort would be run the same way.

Thats cool. I guess you could also say that VW will be quite successful as it has enjoyed the reward of the professional teams they entered in Group B with Audi and Dakar recently. I just was concered that it could end up a beaurocratic nightmare like Mercedes GP, Toyota F1 and Skoda WRC, which had significant German input and management. The cars were good but never really were able to make as muuch impact as they should.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Not sure about Hanninen...he'd be a good driver for the team for sure, but not leading VWs entry into WRC.

So.... at the end of the day we have NO drivers for VW... that's great! :D haha

[Barreis]

They have the budget so no worries about that - only the best available for the 2013.

[Barreis]

World Rally Championship - News - Al-Attiyah set for long-term VW deal (http://www.wrc.com/news/al-attiyah-set-for-long-term-vw-deal/?fid=14938)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Old news from the weekend but still good to hear. Like I read above, he has won Dakar... and ME championship/s or rounds and potentially could be a WRC winner... but not sure how long it would take him... Then again VW will indeed get someone who is new and will be a winner.

It sucks, Ford and Citroen have winners already.. it's like the Suzuki/Hyundai/Seat teams back in again... there are there but not winning... but VW should win :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

So wait.... VW will officially supply him with a Skoda S2000 automobile.... in which he won't have a Ford, where he ditched a Skoda in the first place... He will be testing with VW for a 3 yr contract... does that include driving a car in the WRC officially? (Will have to wait and see)

[Barreis]

They'll have 3 drivers so he can be third without problems. Also won Dakar and gave big publicity to VW so reward is here.

[Motorsportfun]

Volkswagen can do very smart moves. Some contracts will expire at the end of the year, Al-Attiyah has been signed to develop the first things in November-December, waiting for the proper works drivers... who knows, maybe the battle inside Citroen hides some contact between Loeb and VW?

Anyone at VW will deny any contact, of course, but I think that some calls have been already done. I'm sure about it. But it's still too early to talk about silly season...

[pantealex]

There is rumours flying that VWskoda drivers in Finland are:
Juha Kankkunen
Jarkko Nikara
and Nasser

Truth will be out in a week.

[N.O.T]

And no Hanninen ???

[AndyRAC]

Volkswagen can do very smart moves. Some contracts will expire at the end of the year, Al-Attiyah has been signed to develop the first things in November-December, waiting for the proper works drivers... who knows, maybe the battle inside Citroen hides some contact between Loeb and VW?

Anyone at VW will deny any contact, of course, but I think that some calls have been already done. I'm sure about it. But it's still too early to talk about silly season...

Well Loeb was at Le Mans last weekend - a lot of the VW-Audi top brass were there - or am i putting 2 + 2 together and getting 22????

[wildsir]

And no Hanninen ???

The solution there is to drive his own hired Skoda and paste them all.

[Mirek]

The solution there is to drive his own hired Skoda and paste them all.

He will be there with RedBull team as always.

I believe Kankkunen is one of those because I heard he was already with some VW testing...

[Viking]

Well Loeb was at Le Mans last weekend - a lot of the VW-Audi top brass were there - or am i putting 2 + 2 together and getting 22????

Well his boss Olivier Quesnel and a lot of PSA top brass were there also...

[alleskids]

There is rumours flying that VWskoda drivers in Finland are:
Juha Kankkunen
Jarkko Nikara
and Nasser

Truth will be out in a week.

The same Juha Kankkunen who choose a tyre just because it was the nearest by to his car, is being contracted as a devellopment driver for VW?
How big is he in develloping rallycars, did he have major input in the Lancia, Toyota and Huyndai? How much knowledge does Juha K have of modern rallycars?

[Gregor-y]

I believe Kankkunen is one of those because I heard he was already with some VW testing...
Since they both have ties to VW pair Kankkunen with Sainz and watch the sparks fly all over again. It's silly but fun to think about.

[GigiGalliNo1]

The same Juha Kankkunen who choose a tyre just because it was the nearest by to his car

hahahhahahHhha!! That is classic! I think Sainz is definatly a tester for VW as will Nasser in the WRC (Sainz will do outside work) and all bets are on anyone else. I doubt a vintage Fin, no offense to a legend; will have anything to do. I agree, modern car with a retired driver... What did he say last time he drove a Focus WRCar last year or year before?!?? Point proven guys... Come on, it's getting really silly in here!

[Motorsportfun]

At the moment, for me will be something like LOEB(or P.Solberg)-LATVALA-AL ATTIYAH!

[DonJippo]

I agree, modern car with a retired driver...

Have the physics changed lately or what I am missing here? I'm sure Mr Kankkunen knows exactly what makes a good rally car be it modern or old one...

[nafpaktos]

Have the physics changed lately or what I am missing here? I'm sure Mr Kankkunen knows exactly what makes a good rally car be it modern or old one...
Before you critisize Juha you have to look who was ralliart's tester when tommy was driving for ralliart.

[Mirek]

Please, read carefully. DonJippo was defending Juha Kankkunen!

[DonJippo]

Before you critisize Juha you have to look who was ralliart's tester when tommy was driving for ralliart.

I think that was Lasse Lampi.

[nafpaktos]

Yes i know ,my answer was not for the donjippo,but to the person that donjippo gave the answer.I tried to post ALL donjippos post (including his quote) but it wasnt possible.Sorry for the missunderstanding.

[nafpaktos]

I think that was Lasse Lampi.
YES YES YES(NICE MEMORY) .Your answer is the answer for the people who dont believe juha is the appropriate driver for the project.

[alleskids]

Have the physics changed lately or what I am missing here? I'm sure Mr Kankkunen knows exactly what makes a good rally car be it modern or old one...

modern rallycars have much more electronica, and high tech material, so you need more then 4 wheels, a good looking car and an engine to make a good rallycar. Citroen has 10 year sof up to date rally experience of modern WRcars, they dominating it for 6 years. VW has only memories of Group A, a Dakar winning rally raid car and 2 old rally drivers (Sainz and Kankkunen) with a lot of experience, but non with up to date experience. VW needs a driver with devellopmint skills and experience of modern cars, otherwise it will be a Toyota F1 look a like disaster.

Again my question: how good is Kankkunen in develloping a championship winning rallycar and how much did he contribute to rallycars of Lancia, Toyota? His latest project was the Hyundai Acccent, which disappeared into the night without succes, even a podium. Sure KK is one of the biggest in rally, but driving brilliant and making a car brilliant are 2 different things.

[alleskids]

I think that was Lasse Lampi.

When Lassi Lampi devellopt a brilliant car brilliant suited for Makinen (1994-2000), the group A technice was much simpler. Mitsubishi's WRcar (2001-2003) was not such a succes. Did Lampi suddenly loose his touch, or did the technice of the WRcars reach above his level of experience? WRCars of 2012 are above the level experience of Kankkunen.
Modern WRCars are much harder to devellop especially against a dominating Citroen. look at Ford, lots of recent experience and still being head slapped by Citroen

[Mirek]

Lasse Lampi is working in Škoda now. It's mostly about helping Hänninen but still he is useful for sure.

[N.O.T]

Lasse lampi makes me sick....he did many wrong things just to promote a paper champ (but hell fast nonetheless)...thank god Loeb squashed the paper record in no time and he will be easily forgotten.

[DonJippo]

Again my question: how good is Kankkunen in develloping a championship winning rallycar and how much did he contribute to rallycars of Lancia, Toyota? His latest project was the Hyundai Acccent, which disappeared into the night without succes, even a podium.

Trust me he is good enough.

[DonJippo]

he will be easily forgotten.

For most probably yes but for you he seems to be unforgettable...

[Barreis]

Are you talkin' about Makinen? Great driver.

[N.O.T]

Great driver and one of the fastest yes...but at what expense ??

[Barreis]

At expense of Nokia (co-driver now must go to jail) or whatever. :D

[nafpaktos]

When Lassi Lampi devellopt a brilliant car brilliant suited for Makinen (1994-2000), the group A technice was much simpler. Mitsubishi's WRcar (2001-2003) was not such a succes. Did Lampi suddenly loose his touch, or did the technice of the WRcars reach above his level of experience? WRCars of 2012 are above the level experience of Kankkunen.
Modern WRCars are much harder to devellop especially against a dominating Citroen. look at Ford, lots of recent experience and still being head slapped by Citroen

Mitsubishi's wrcar(2001-2003)was not good not because the technice of the WRcars reach above his level of experience.The problem was that the car was one of the worst in the championship.With that car he couldnt do something to improve it(the only thing he could do was to persuade ralliart to make a new car)

[nafpaktos]

Great driver and one of the fastest yes...but at what expense ??
What do you mean?

[ford0]

At expense of Nokia (co-driver now must go to jail) or whatever.

What bull **** are you talking here? Makinen has nothing to do with this incident.

The driver you are talking about is an amateur driver who has never been outside Finland believe me I know.

[OldF]

All group A cars had an active central differential by the end of 1995. The current WRC cars don’t have a central differential at all. Also about the electronics I wouldn’t be so sure about. Current WRC cars only electronics is the ECU (engine management).

For a driver to develop a car it’s not about the engine or the electronics, it’s about to find the best suspension and drivability, the rest is the headache of the engineers.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Have the physics changed lately or what I am missing here? I'm sure Mr Kankkunen knows exactly what makes a good rally car be it modern or old one...

Yes, but seriously Look up on video/youtube and see if you can find out what Juha said about driving a current Ford Focus WRCar during one of his comebacks (Finland 09' or 10')

There will be your answer!!

[Tomi]

Lasse Lampi is working in Škoda now. It's mostly about helping Hänninen but still he is useful for sure.

You should not have told that, now the less gifted with brains starts to think that when their favorites dont do result, its because they are forced to drive with Juhos settings or that they dont get any test time ;)

[DonJippo]

There will be your answer!!

Take a look at the post #427 that's where the answer is.

[pantealex]

Neste Oil Rally Finland:
Andreas Mikkelsen
Joonas Lindroos

[makinen_fan]

there is no sign of Nassser Al-Attiyah in the Finland entries. Though he is nominated to race a Ford Fiesta in the Paphos Rally (MERC round) the coming weekend
http://www.caa.com.cy/sport/2011/pafosinternational/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Pafos_international_rally_list_of_entries.pdf

[RS]

Looks like no VW deal for Al-Attiyah: Al-Attiyah set to turn down long-term deal with Volkswagen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92715)

[N.O.T]

cheaper to pay for mini instead of VW....

[COD]

Neste Oil Rally Finland:
Andreas Mikkelsen
Joonas Lindroos

Mikkelsen I can uderstand, but I would have taken Nikara instead of Lindroos from Finland. Lindroos has not been showing good speed at Finnish Championship this year and has no expirience on WRC rallies (except Finland)

[rp]

Mikkelsen I can uderstand, but I would have taken Nikara instead of Lindroos from Finland. Lindroos has not been showing good speed at Finnish Championship this year and has no expirience on WRC rallies (except Finland)

That´s true! Nikara has been faster during this year and he is driving old Evo 9. Lindroos has much more points and is second in the series only one point behind Salo. Would be interesting to know how they chose the drivers...? Was there anything truth about Kankkunen driving one car...

[N.O.T]

Looks like no VW deal for Al-Attiyah: Al-Attiyah set to turn down long-term deal with Volkswagen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92715)

so what do the people who believed that VW actually was going to pay the tourist say now ????

pppffftttt....

[Tomi]

Was there anything truth about Kankkunen driving one car...

What do you think? Offcourse not.

[Motorsportfun]

Mitsubishi's wrcar(2001-2003)was not good not because the technice of the WRcars reach above his level of experience.The problem was that the car was one of the worst in the championship.With that car he couldnt do something to improve it(the only thing he could do was to persuade ralliart to make a new car)

Mitsubishi had bad engineers until Mario Fornaris came there. He completely revolutioned the project... and the first results in the 2nd half of the year were so much interesting. Shame that the 06-spec was not developed and put on stages even if driven by privateers! :(

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hrmmm.... interesting!

[makinen_fan]

Mikkelsen I can uderstand, but I would have taken Nikara instead of Lindroos from Finland. Lindroos has not been showing good speed at Finnish Championship this year and has no expirience on WRC rallies (except Finland)

What's the point of assessing Lindroos in Finalnd. Since he knows the stages well there is no supprise he will show good speed in the car. But what about the other rallies? Is there any sign if they will stick with these two for the rest of 2011 or they will put different drivers in the car

[Hartusvuori]

Is there any sign if they will stick with these two for the rest of 2011 or they will put different drivers in the car


Mikkelsen (Norway) and Lindroos (Finland) are the first two drivers to be selected by Nissen under VW's young driver assessment programme and more are expected to be tested on the four other European WRC rounds this season.

Volkswagen to run WRC driver assessment programme through 2011 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92714)

For me this is the oppurtunity Lindroos hasn't had yet, his definite make it or brake it. Okey, in '09 PSD shootout he broke it, but a win there wouldn't have guaranteed anything yet. Like a success in Rally Finland now doesn't either. The name is out, that's good. True also that he hasn't show the raw speed in this year's FRC, but on the other hand he hasn't showed lack of speed either nor made costly errors - that's part of the sport too - and in my opinion he is solid number 2 in the championship and with Salo's misfortune with the car in Lapua he now have a chance to take the title - this is part of the sport too.

And by saying this I hope I'm not taking anything away from Nikara who has shown exactly the raw speed he holds this year. If his Evo IX puts together he will give hard time to other PWRC drivers for sure.

[N.O.T]

If we exclude ketomaa and hanninen all the other finish boys are nothing more than finnish specialists... VW need someone that is a rally driver.

[donlorean]

If we exclude ketomaa and hanninen all the other finish boys are nothing more than finnish specialists... VW need someone that is a rally driver.

And all drivers from south europe are nothing but tarmac specialist... Jep jep... Mikkelsen and Lindroos are just two first name of VW program. I realy think that we will see also some young tarmac spesialist in VW program during this year... IMO you all will be surprised about Lindroos speed in NORF.

[I am evil Homer]

Interesting choice so far...if only Mini ddidn't have Meeke he could do a great job for VW. Nikara I think will get a chance at some point, VW is playing the long game here and doesn't need to make any final choice for over a year.

[vkangas]

Really nice to see VW is 100% serious from day 1! :)

[N.O.T]

And all drivers from south europe are nothing but tarmac specialist... Jep jep... Mikkelsen and Lindroos are just two first name of VW program. I realy think that we will see also some young tarmac spesialist in VW program during this year... IMO you all will be surprised about Lindroos speed in NORF.

in NORF yes...elsewhere no. Again it falls down to what VW wants...if they want to spend millions and go the Seat failure way then they can listen to managers and pay LIndroos and some other one dimensional kitten which cannot drive an event without going through the stage a million times before. If they are serious about it they will give hanninen a chance and as a second driver they can have someone with experience for development and as a guide to measure the speed of the the young one.

Ketomaa lindroos Kopecky and the others must pay to drive and if they are lucky they will deliver and be used in some rounds as wild cards....

[Viking]

Official press realease

Wanted: Next rally star 2013 – Volkswagen to start talent assessment at Finland Rally - Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/news/index.php?&flash=no&lg=e&st=588&id=4549)

[donlorean]

in NORF yes...elsewhere no...

Any young and talented driver(no matter where his from) must be fast in they home ground. If not, he'll never get a chance to show his skills in differrent rounds.
You named Juho Hänninen earlier. When he was at Lindroos age, he was just Finnish/gravel expert. But he get an opportunity from Skoda and use it, and now he is one of best finnish tarmac drivers ever. And still he is fast in gravel... Now Lindroos(and Mikkelsen) has that same opportunity. And few more will get that same chance later this year. VW will check every one of them and choose the best one. Is it Joonas or Andreas or someone else, we will see...
You can't buy that place. If you are fast enough, they will call you. You don't have to call them.

[I am evil Homer]

By that criteria they better be on the phone to Bouffier and Neuville too then (if we assume that Tanat and Prokop are signed up to Ford already).

[N.O.T]

exactly...Lindroos is a nobody outside finland and it will take far more resources to develop him .... so its better to invest in someone who doesn't need too much schooling....

[AndyRAC]

It seems that they are picking a youngster from each remaining country. Will be interesting to see which young Brit gets picked, if any. Also, what about France…. a French youngster driving for a German team??
Maybe then, for next year they will pick the best 2-3 drivers for a campaign in a S2000 in the S-WRC or even IRC for building up experience.

[alleskids]

Nasser Al Attiyah was due to sign the 3 years VW contract at the Nurburgring 24 hours, but reports say he refused because his personal sponsor (Barwa?) prefers to trust on the Mini (BMW) option. to defend the Dakar title and have a full program in 2012 wit the Mini WRCar. Al Attiyah only misses Monte Carlo, because he is bussy in South America.

[Mirek]

exactly...Lindroos is a nobody outside finland and it will take far more resources to develop him .... so its better to invest in someone who doesn't need too much schooling....

NOT, if I'm not mistaken Hänninen, before he came to Škoda, did only one asphalt event at all (Tour de Corse with Evo IX). His progress came because some people weren't like You and gave him the chance. I really don't think his asphalt took so long...

[makinen_fan]

NOT, if I'm not mistaken Hänninen, before he came to Škoda, did only one asphalt event at all (Tour de Corse with Evo IX). His progress came because some people weren't like You and gave him the chance. I really don't think his asphalt took so long...

he actually did at least 3 WRC tarmac rounds, two in Spain an Tour de Corse. But before Skoda gave him the chance in IRC, he had already contested twice the whole of PWRC calendar in 2007 and 2008, where he finished 2nd overall. it is not exactly the same situation with Lindroos. hopefully he will be given a chance outside Finland, to prove something and be the next rally star from Finland

[Francis44]

If they have the rumoured large budget, why not make an open day in Germany where youngsters without much experience could drive with some one professional to avaluate what they got, it worked for Citroen ( Loeb, Ogier FFSA). Im sick of seeing always the same drivers get tons of chances and ending up crashing tons of cars or not showing results, and they continue burning through cash and squashing other people's opportunities.

[alleskids]

Red Bull has done it some years ago and came up with Andreas Aigner. Which was a reasonable option, considering the limitation of a German speaking only shoot out. Volkswagen can shoot out any talent from every nation.

[donlorean]

exactly...Lindroos is a nobody outside finland and it will take far more resources to develop him .... so its better to invest in someone who doesn't need too much schooling....

I agree, Joonas is nobody. But they still choose him. I just wonder why?

Can you name some one who is young enough and doesn't need schooling? Tänak has five years deal with Ford. Is he ready? Prokop also, is he ready? Boufier and Neuville? Are they ready?

All youngsters need miles and miles and miles. On gravel. On tarmac. As much that its possible. That is the only way. But first you have to be fast in your home ground. Then you might get a chance. Hänninen drove thousands of kilometers testing in tarmac and now you can see the results.

[Mintexmemory]

I agree, Joonas is nobody. But they still choose him. I just wonder why?

Can you name some one who is young enough and doesn't need schooling? Tänak has five years deal with Ford. Is he ready? Prokop also, is he ready? Boufier and Neuville? Are they ready?

All youngsters need miles and miles and miles. On gravel. On tarmac. As much that its possible. That is the only way. But first you have to be fast in your home ground. Then you might get a chance. Hänninen drove thousands of kilometers testing in tarmac and now you can see the results.

Looking at the press release I can see VW adopting the senior / junior team approach, so 2 places may be up for grabs. I also think they have a good idea who they'd like already but are seeing how the chosen triallists compare with experienced Skodaistes. Remember, the drivers selected can continue their development through to 2013 (i.e the rest of this season and all of next.). Tanak may have a 5 year deal with Ford but for what? All contracts can be ended by appropriate compensation. Hanninen and Kopecky must be the yardstick for the triallists. Bouffier, Neuville, Tanak, Weijs, Abbring and Wilks are all possibles as are Sandell, Grondal, Paddon and Flodin. It will be interesting to see if the VW entry is still made for those events not having an SWRC round
As for schooling, Weijs sat in the Skoda for only 2 hrs prior to Ypres and finished 2nd of the non-Loix entries. True talent has a habit of being clear to see, Weijs and Tanak are my predictions

[N.O.T]

NOT, if I'm not mistaken Hänninen, before he came to Škoda, did only one asphalt event at all (Tour de Corse with Evo IX). His progress came because some people weren't like You and gave him the chance. I really don't think his asphalt took so long...

Mr hanninen attended a tarmac rally school in italy at his own expense if i am not mistaken, so i expect if anyone wants to become a manufacturer driver to spend some of his own money...i doubt any serious manufacturer would pay a driver and develop him from scratch.

[N.O.T]

I agree, Joonas is nobody. But they still choose him. I just wonder why?

Can you name some one who is young enough and doesn't need schooling? Tänak has five years deal with Ford. Is he ready? Prokop also, is he ready? Boufier and Neuville? Are they ready?

All youngsters need miles and miles and miles. On gravel. On tarmac. As much that its possible. That is the only way. But first you have to be fast in your home ground. Then you might get a chance. Hänninen drove thousands of kilometers testing in tarmac and now you can see the results.

they picked him to test him.....not to sign him.

As i said....none of the youngsters tou mention are ready yet...and thats my point they have to spend some of their own money to become as ready as possible because none will take the risk to develop a driver while in a manufacturer team especially now that only 2 cars are allowed.

[donlorean]

As for schooling, Weijs sat in the Skoda for only 2 hrs prior to Ypres and finished 2nd of the non-Loix entries. True talent has a habit of being clear to see, Weijs and Tanak are my predictions
Well, Ypres is a rally where Hans Jr must be fast... And he was. But he was not shocking fast in Finland or Sweden so he also need schooling...

[Mirek]

Mr hanninen attended a tarmac rally school in italy at his own expense if i am not mistaken, so i expect if anyone wants to become a manufacturer driver to spend some of his own money...i doubt any serious manufacturer would pay a driver and develop him from scratch.

I think that Ogier before he came to Citroen and drove one season of JWRC, did only three seasons of one-make cups in France with small cars like 206XS. Another example could be Neuville who is supported by PSA since a moment when he drove only some one or two years with small cars. These two definitely were developed by manufacturer effort.

In my opinion if VW now picks Lindroos and he shows something in NORF, they can let him drive Fabia S2000 in next years WRC events (which is basically similar to what Citroën did with Ogier in 2008) and that all would happen before they enter WRC, so there isn't that much risk in it besides quite a lot of money spent but they can afford that like Citroën could.

[donlorean]

they picked him to test him...

As they will do with many other young drivers during this year... Joonas is not the chosen one yet. I know that. Like i said, he has an opportunity and it's in his own hands... For now it looks that VW will use some money for schooling...

Do you have any names?

[N.O.T]

Its not about naming names or nationalities.....i just think that VW will not risk too much on their first year of involvment...like mini...they will probably go for 2 established drivers in the WRC/IRC who can be consistent and fast and then they will offer 2-3 private cars to privateers with deep pockets...then if they see that the car is good and can challenge for wins and championship they will open their market to some young guns with future prospects.

Lindroos and the rest are just going to have a small test for future reference, but if they want to aim for that seat they are going to have to leave the confort of the special stages they know by heart and show some skills on grounds they do not know that well.

[donlorean]

Lindroos and the rest are just going to have a small test for future reference, but if they want to aim for that seat they are going to have to leave the confort of the special stages they know by heart and show some skills on grounds they do not know that well.
Most of those young talents just doesn't have money to do that. My opinion is that it's not just a "small" test. VW is realy looking for someone. I think that Hänninen might be a guy who built and test that car at first. Few young and talented guy will get a chance to show what they can do with a car, then they pick up one for schooling like Citroen did with Ogier.. And I also think that Lindroos isn't only "nobody" on that list...

[N.O.T]

you have a wrong perception of how things work on the higher level.....very few people can help you, but you are happy so its fine by me...

When was the last time in the modern financial era that a new manufacturer took a risk like that ??

[donlorean]

you have a wrong perception of how things work on the higher level.....very few people can help you, but you are happy so its fine by me...

When was the last time in the modern financial era that a new manufacturer took a risk like that ??

I might have. But what I know about that VW small(as you say) testing program, they'll but hell of a lot of money and resourses on it. And I'm not talking about drivers now. If they do it just for fun, then it's just waste of money, and first time in modern financial era as you said. With all that money, there must be some plan behind all this. And you know that plan just as well than I do.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I hear the name Duval with VW ;)

[ford0]

N.O.T again I do not understand your attitude, but fortunately you are coming little bit softer when the discussion goes forward. Lindroos is nobody internationally for sure but I must take my hat off for VW company when they give him possibility to so his driving skills. Joonas do not have rich family behind him and I know that he can`t afford to drive even with group N subaru in Finnish series without help of Tommi Makinen. Maybe Tommi has something to do with this VW case. Lindroos comes from a family who`s hobby has always been rally driving. His father, mother, sister, grandpa , and uncles have all driven rallies in national level and they are still driving. His greatuncle ( 67 years old) still competes in finnish rallies with a car worth some 5000 euros.
Most WRC rallies are driven on gravel so it is limited number of good candidates with enough skills. Paddon, Tänak maybe Semerad and Neuville are good but who else. Finnish youngsters Nikara , Esa-Pekka Lappi and Korhonen are fast but where is the money, they do not have rich fathers like Mikkelsen and Ostberg . And Jouhki is not taking them forward as he did with Mikkola, Kankkunen Rovanperä, Mäkinen etc. Hänninen had luck when Kuistila and few others helped him to international level.
I am sure VW would like to take German driver but there is no one who is fast enough. This Esa-Pekka Lappi, I mentioned, was last year first time abroad. He hired a group N Honda Civic from Schmack motorsport and drove one competition in german series. It was his first rally in tarmac ever and he won his class with 3 min difference and was 7th overall. He is only 20 years old.

ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU VW FOR YOUR APPROACHING TO WRC WITHOUT PAYING DRIVERS.

[GigiGalliNo1]

ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU VW FOR YOUR APPROACHING TO WRC WITHOUT PAYING DRIVERS.

Are you being sarcastic?

[mousti]

Neuville would be the ideal guy for Deutschland rally, he's mother language is even German his national flag looks like Germany :p .

But I think PSA (Peugeot Belux) will not allow that

[Mintexmemory]

I am sure VW would like to take German driver but there is no one who is fast enough


Aaron Burkhart (remember him?) Last year's JWRC champ and without support this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a chance in Rally Deutschland.

[Mirek]

Aaron Burkhart (remember him?) Last year's JWRC champ and without support this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a chance in Rally Deutschland.

He is going to start in Deutschland with Fiesta WRC. This weekend he has a test start in Rally Bohemia with Fiesta S2000 from Martin Prokop. And I'm sure he will struggle to keep the pace of front runners...

[Mintexmemory]

He is going to start in Deutschland with Fiesta WRC. This weekend he has a test start in Rally Bohemia with Fiesta S2000 from Martin Prokop. And I'm sure he will struggle to keep the pace of front runners...
Please let us know how he gets on. Straight into a Fiesta WRC is a big leap from S1600. Is Rally Bohemia tarmac or gravel?

[MartijnS]

Don't think Burkart will be fast enough indeed.
For example Weijs, Abbring and Neuville are faster for sure.

[Mirek]

Please let us know how he gets on. Straight into a Fiesta WRC is a big leap from S1600. Is Rally Bohemia tarmac or gravel?

It is tarmac. Result system is already prepared, it's also in English (at the top You have language button): Rally Bohemia 2011 - Results - Rally-Base (http://rally-base.com/2011/rally-bohemia-2011/)

[pantealex]

For Germany (and/or France because it also is not part of PWRC) Hayden Paddon could be interesting choice for VW...

[Barreis]

Don't understand why they put killer Mikkelsen in the car.

[Hartusvuori]

Where's the dislike button?

[tfp]

I hear the name Duval with VW ;)

:up:

[Barreis]

I hear the name Duval with VW ;)

Like.

[alleskids]

VW is in search for a young driver who can instantly deliver on gravel and tarmac. Only 3 drivers meet that subscription at this moment: Kris Meeke, Dani Sordo and Juha Hanninen. Mads Ostberg has lost his flow since Sweden, PG Andersson is a young upcoming talent for yoo many years now, Andreas Mikkelsen is too hot, he is burning himself occasionally. Ott Tanak is the only real hot youngster. For Citroen he would be too young, to replace Loeb if/WHEN he leaves Citroen at the end of this year, he would be perfect for VW. I expect Dani Sordo to be back to Citroen, to become the new Citroen tarmac king, and Nasser Al Attiyah to promote to the Prodrive/BMW factory team.

[HaCo]

So will this project completely kill the Skoda project? It would be a real pitty, they have been really succesfull. Is it not possible that VW provides their 1.6T to put into the Skoda S2000?

[AndyRAC]

I hear the name Duval with VW ;)

Which one?? I doubt it's either of them. Francois or Loic.........

[AndyRAC]

So will this project completely kill the Skoda project? It would be a real pity, they have been really succesfull. Is it not possible that VW provides their 1.6T to put into the Skoda S2000?

It's a good question, as VW haven't liked their marques competing against each other. However todays announcement that Porsche is returning to Sportscars/Le Mans top class, could mean them taking on Audi. We'll find out soon enough if this policy continues.

[Mirek]

AFAIK all Škoda 1.6T development was abandoned few weeks a go after more than half year of testing with their own Oreca engine. WTCC 1.6T engines of Seat are built by Lehmann.

[MJW]

My guess is Audi concentrates on DTM leaving LeMans series to Porsche, I wonder if however it ends up like this, V6 Turbo in F1, common sense would badge that as Porsche but could be SEAT, Audi in DTM, VW in WRC, Skoda in WTCC?

[OldF]

The search for a young driver could also be made in such way that a tarmac driver compete with a gravel driver on gravel and vice versa and then compare their mutual performance. Even better if there where two tarmac and to gravel drivers in every event.

The disadvantage with this system is however that it doesn’t tell the potential of a driver’s learning curve on for the driver not so familiar surface.

[skarderud]

VW is in search for a young driver who can instantly deliver on gravel and tarmac. Only 3 drivers meet that subscription at this moment: Kris Meeke, Dani Sordo and Juha Hanninen. Mads Ostberg has lost his flow since Sweden, PG Andersson is a young upcoming talent for yoo many years now, Andreas Mikkelsen is too hot, he is burning himself occasionally. Ott Tanak is the only real hot youngster. For Citroen he would be too young, to replace Loeb if/WHEN he leaves Citroen at the end of this year, he would be perfect for VW. I expect Dani Sordo to be back to Citroen, to become the new Citroen tarmac king, and Nasser Al Attiyah to promote to the Prodrive/BMW factory team.

mads hasn't lost his flow, his fiesta has.....
weard thing that happens to all not works drivers in a ford last couple of years.....

[Rally Power]

My guess is Audi concentrates on DTM leaving LeMans series to Porsche, I wonder if however it ends up like this, V6 Turbo in F1, common sense would badge that as Porsche but could be SEAT, Audi in DTM, VW in WRC, Skoda in WTCC?

What about the Dakar? Won´t any of the group makes profit from VW's experience?

[alleskids]

Porsche was/is marketing with their Cayenne in rally raids. It was tought that they would use the VW technice to build a Porsche Dakar winner

[Allyc85]

I hear the name Duval with VW ;)

It shows the **** state the WRC is in when crap drivers like him still get linked to drives....

[AndyRAC]

My guess is Audi concentrates on DTM leaving LeMans series to Porsche, I wonder if however it ends up like this, V6 Turbo in F1, common sense would badge that as Porsche but could be SEAT, Audi in DTM, VW in WRC, Skoda in WTCC?

Audi released a statement welcoming Porsche, but made it clear they would be staying, i;e probably a Petrol-Hybrid Porsche v Diesel Audi. Whatever, the VW Group are really ramping up their Motorsport effort - good to see!!

[RS]

So will this project completely kill the Skoda project? It would be a real pitty, they have been really succesfull. Is it not possible that VW provides their 1.6T to put into the Skoda S2000?

I wonder whether the Skoda project is partly the victim of the slightly muddy and too small difference between WRC spec/RRC and "Super 1.6T" that runs on WRC events.

[RS]

mads hasn't lost his flow, his fiesta has.....
weard thing that happens to all not works drivers in a ford last couple of years.....

Is it not just a case of being very good on Scandinavian style events but mediocre elsewhere?

[Sulland]

AFAIK all Škoda 1.6T development was abandoned few weeks a go after more than half year of testing with their own Oreca engine. WTCC 1.6T engines of Seat are built by Lehmann.
What kind of rally engines has Lehmann build before ?

[skarderud]

Is it not just a case of being very good on Scandinavian style events but mediocre elsewhere?

its just the case that msport didn't had "customer spec" ready in sweden, after they had.
with mads speed in his s2000 at the homeevents this summer, i'll trust you that the speed is there. he is par with anders grøndal in a impreza s10 wrc, and beats all other wrc's in the field.

[MJW]

What kind of rally engines has Lehmann build before ? you could get Lehmann built audi quattro engines back in the 1980's

[Mirek]

Also Octavia WRC - last Evo 2 and Evo 3, Fabia WRC Evo 2 (I'm not sure here...).