GT Class

[Sulland]

What is the future for the GT class ?

And what cars are homologated in this class ?

[Mirek]

No GT car has international homologation valid in rallying.

[Langdale Forest]

What is a Gt car?

[Sulland]

OK, but it was talk about that, to allow them in FIA rallies, or is my teflon brain striking again ?

I have seen Porsche GT3, Nissan 350, and Aston Martin cars. Are there more made ?

[Langdale Forest]

Aston Matrin would be useless on gravel and they do not have a place in rally anyway.

[Mirek]

Sulland: They are very different cars based on different national regulations.

For example there is huge difference between Porsche of Vallejo in Spain and Porsche of Dobberkau in Germany. The former is complete special made of circuit Porsche Supercup (plastic body panels, special suspension, 470 Hp, carbon brakes, traction control...) and the former is N-GT with normal H gearbox, normal suspension, much heavier etc.

[Francis44]

I think they dont differ much from circuit cars because the Aston Fontes uses on the portuguese rally championship is too used on circuit races.

[Mirek]

Francis: You are not right. Aston used by Fontes is FIA GT Circuit car with six liter V12 engine, that's right. But Prodrive Aston built as rallycar and used in for example Race of Champions is four liter V8 with group N modifications. It's also made of circuit car but these two are really very different.

[Langdale Forest]

What speeds could GT rally cars reach (unlimited)?

[Mirek]

Depends on particular gearing. Circuit GT1 Astons around 330 km/h.

[Langdale Forest]

What would that be in m.p.h?

[Francis44]

]Francis: You are not right. Aston used by Fontes is FIA GT Circuit car with six liter V12 engine, that's right. But Prodrive Aston built as rallycar and used in for example Race of Champions is four liter V8 with group N modifications. It's also made of circuit car but these two are really very different.

Oh sorry I didn't know that, I read it was used on circuit, but i guess i didn't read it carefully ;) .

[Sulland]

N-GT was the class I thought it was some discussion allowing, but was it in IRC they talked about this, but was not given green light by FIA ?

But they are reasonably priced, and have a soundpicture that make goosebumps, especially the GT3's so they would make sense, at least for many Gentleman drivers, that does this for fun !

[Mirek]

I agree but we can't do anything if FIA says no...

[Simmi]

Is there a certain safety issue with these cars nowadays? If you rolled the Aston for example with that roofline? Doesn't seem like much margin but I'm no expert.

I think they add a great bit of variety to fields in national rallies. And also come with a great soundtrack.

[Sulland]

]I agree but we can't do anything if FIA says no...

Try again maybe, FIA is "new" since the last time... ;)

[Josti]

What would that be in m.p.h?

Better ask that in a seperate thread.

Or, dare to use the internet.

[gravelman]

Better ask that in a seperate thread.

Or, dare to use the internet.
Roughly 200+mph

[CWJ]

What speeds could GT rally cars reach (unlimited)?

N-GT porsche road challenge run about 250 km/h or 155 mph. More final speed should make no sence at a rally stage, actually 225 km/h but even better acceleration would be enough.

[eloyf1]

In Spain, the highest speed I've heard was 214 km/h, achieved by Alberto Monarri with a Ferrari 360 Rallye, but it was in a night rally,and Porsche is a better car, so 220 km/h must be achievable

[Wim_Impreza]

225 km/h with a 911 GT3 Road Challenge is possible. That was reached in Belgium with Patrick Snijers in 2008.

There will be a Nissan 370Z this year with Chris Van Woensel in Belgium. Gentlemen-drivers Françis Lejeune and Henri Schmelcher will again drive a 911 GT3. Also some Porsches Cayman S drove here in 2008 and 2009.

[Sulland]

225 km/h with a 911 GT3 Road Challenge is possible. That was reached in Belgium with Patrick Snijers in 2008.

There will be a Nissan 370Z this year with Chris Van Woensel in Belgium. Gentlemen-drivers Françis Lejeune and Henri Schmelcher will again drive a 911 GT3. Also some Porsches Cayman S drove here in 2008 and 2009.

Loved the Cayman !

[FabiaFan]

What about the Lotus from the French Championship?

[Zico]

Interesting article in this months Evo mag, they gave Delecour a shot of the new GT3 RS on some of the local roads where he lives (also a stage on the Monte) With a few little mods he believes it would be a top ten car.

Video link supplied by Daniel on another thread..

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/249334/francois_delecour_drives_the_gt3_rs.html

Francois in a factory entered GT3 on the Monte?.. that would be well worth taking the trip to see, would hold far more appeal for me than even the top WRC cars.

[AndyRAC]

Interesting article in this months Evo mag, they gave Delecour a shot of the new GT3 RS on some of the local roads where he lives (also a stage on the Monte) With a few little mods he believes it would be a top ten car.

Video link supplied by Daniel on another thread..

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/249334/francois_delecour_drives_the_gt3_rs.html

Francois in a factory entered GT3 on the Monte?.. that would be well worth taking the trip to see, would hold far more appeal for me than even the top WRC cars.

Good article and video.
True what Francois says; imagine them on the Monte? Would look and sound spectacular. So it won't be allowed. WRCars sre boring and quiet by comparison.
Shame :(

[Josti]

And he's also right about Porsche's potential in rallying, marketing wise.

It's a shame that, back in the 70's and 80's, Porsche never realized what they could do in rallying with full factory support.

[Sulland]

Maybe there is hope for the GT class now that FIA will see if they shall approve it as a class in WRC !

I hope they are able to agree on the rules and regulations for this one, would as said before love to see GT cars i rally, and it is a perfect class for the Gentlemen drivers, and also for the spectators !!

[Sulland]

http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_036_bobbiese.jpg.jpg
http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_030_d_aste.jpg.jpg
http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_035_pitorri.jpg.jpg


Nice cars !
And maybe FIA will allow them soon !

[Barreis]

Nice photos..

[Sulland]

Looks like the GTs are getting their regs:

GT cars allowed ! - http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=11386

Cool !

[OldF]

This is a great!

We’ll have more diversity among cars. Let’s hope that we can see GT cars also on gravel, not just tarmac. This would be like in 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s when there were cars like Porsche 911, Renault Alpine, Lancia Stratos (which is IMO one of the most beautiful rally car).

[PLuto]

OldF, dont forget also snow (at least on Monte) :)

[bt52b]

Good article and video.
True what Francois says; imagine them on the Monte? Would look and sound spectacular. So it won't be allowed. WRCars sre boring and quiet by comparison.
Shame :(

Evo were a bit dumb doing that on public roads and not editing it. If the FIA see that, Evo will have cost him his competition licence. Todt said he will take hard line on this.

[OldF]

OldF, dont forget also snow (at least on Monte) :)

How could I be that careless?

In 1975 Björn Waldegård with a Lancia Stratos won the Swedish rally.

[Sulland]

Just think about if both WRC and IRC will allow GT Rallycars for 2011, would be so nice to see and hear !

And the leaks/rumors on the tech regs looks promising.

Does it need any adjustments ?

[ToughMac]

http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_036_bobbiese.jpg.jpg
http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_030_d_aste.jpg.jpg
http://www.rallylink.it/news//images/rsgallery/display/mrs10_9_035_pitorri.jpg.jpg


Nice cars !
And maybe FIA will allow them soon !

Love the Lotuses, they look like modernised Darrians

[FabiaFan]

Love the Lotuses
...yeah, imagine d'Aste in Monte next month... if just that'd turn true...

[Sulland]

Is the regulations for this class published yet ?

Otherwise it could be hard for Tuthill to prep a car for Sweden.

[OldF]

Is the regulations for this class published yet ?

Otherwise it could be hard for Tuthill to prep a car for Sweden.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/679D8CA3F3DF8F09C12577F50055956F/$FILE/WRC%20Regs&Appx%202011.pdf (page 12)

4. CARS ELIGIBLE TO ENTER WRC EVENTS
- World Rally Cars complying with 2011 Appendix J.
- Group A cars including S2000 cars conforming to 2011 Appendix J Art. 254A and Art.255A.
- Group A Kit Cars with a corrected cylinder capacity of less than 1600cc.
- Group RGT cars conforming to 2011 Appendix J Art. 256
- Group R cars.
- Group N cars. These cars may use FIA regionally homologated components (RVO) as in Article 4.4.3.
- Regional cars
- National cars

No Article 256 in the 2011 Appendix J so far. But this doesn’t mean that the regulations aren’t ready, FIA is just little bit lazy to publish the regs. For example the new WRC regs was published on the FIA’s web page around 23rd of December but 2011 Appendix J (Article 255A) tells that it was published already 11.11.2010.

[Sulland]

Hopefully Tuthill has them... :p

[Zico]

Evo were a bit dumb doing that on public roads and not editing it. If the FIA see that, Evo will have cost him his competition licence. Todt said he will take hard line on this.

Agreed, I've actually just sent them an Email begging them to pull or edit it, probs way too late for all that though.

[morganmilan]

Timo Bernhard in Germany, and Romain Dumas in France, will run their own national championships this season, with Porsche 911GT3 both of them

[AndyRAC]

Timo Bernhard in Germany, and Romain Dumas in France, will run their own national championships this season, with Porsche 911GT3 both of them

Wow, that is interesting - as they are Official Porsche factory drivers - loaned to their related company Audi, and defending Le Mans winners.

[OldF]

The GT rules have been published.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2405C9523F7F17D4C125781C0039EC6E/$FILE/Art.256_R-GT-18.01.2011.pdf

This class is called R-GT (R Group).

Min weight for cars with cylinder capacity greater than 3100 cc is 1200 kg and 1020 kg for cars less than 3100 cc.

Restrictor sizes are on the last page.

[Mirek]

Looks promising. Also no word about speed limiter. I would like to see RH also...

[Sulland]

RH ???

[Mirek]

RH is Homologation regulations (Reglement de Homolgation), they are much more detailed but not available for public download.

[Sulland]

Merci !

[OldF]

It seems that the R-GT cars must have their own homologation.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2405C9523F7F17D4C125781C0039EC6E/$FILE/Art.256_R-GT-18.01.2011.pdf

2.1 Type of cars eligible
For a vehicle to be eligible, it must be a car homologated by the FIA in Group RGT.

If this is true I don’t think there are single R-GT homologation yet.

[Sulland]

If none are homologated yet, is there any way of finding out what cars are planned to be homologated when ?

[HaCo]

Any news on this class? Is Porsche going to homolagte R-GT's? What about BMW and Nissan, would be great!

[Sulland]

Still no Article 256, does that mean they can not homologate, or are they ready just not published to the public ?

Guessing we will not see any GT cars in FIA rallies before 2012. Pity really, would be a fun spice !

[Abarth]

Maybe IRC should allow an interim GT class in 2011, to get the beautiful cars below out in a cup?

[Sulland]

Is there no movement at all in this class ?

Many people are waiting for homologated cars to buy, but still no factories or tuning firms that I have seen has done any homologations yet. Why ?

[Alex Langheck]

Is there no movement at all in this class ?

Many people are waiting for homologated cars to buy, but still no factories or tuning firms that I have seen has done any homologations yet. Why ?

Rallying 2011 - The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board (http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=138428&st=1480&start=1480)

Seem the 300BHP limit is causing a problem.

[Mirek]

There is no such limit in the rules. Only restrictor size dependent on vehicle weigh.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2405C9523F7F17D4C125781C0039EC6E/$FILE/Art.256_R-GT-18.01.2011.pdf

[Sulland]

Mirek; What is missing since no one have homologated cars for R-GT yet ?

Do you think there will be any cars ready for 2012, and will FIA have a series for them ?

[OldF]

I do not think that it is attractive enough for manufacturers to homologate a car that fights only for a class win or drivers that is driving just for fun. I believe that a RGT car would be much more expensive compared to R2 and R3 so there wouldn’t be a big market for them. If they had a own championship it could be different (RGT ERC).

Btw, it would intetersting to know which countries have a class or championship for GT cars and what kind of rules are in use.

[wildboar]

Lotus to launch new Exige-based rally car
I am not sure if this has been discussed here before, but Lotus is apparently making a new Exige as a rally car, to be presented at the Frankfurt car show in September:
Lotus to launch new Exige-based rally car | Secret New Cars | Car Magazine Online (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/Lotus-to-launch-new-Exige-based-rally-car/)
"Lotus will homologate the 300 models necessary in time for launch in January 2012"

[focus206]

Lotus to launch new Exige-based rally car
I am not sure if this has been discussed here before, but Lotus is apparently making a new Exige as a rally car, to be presented at the Frankfurt car show in September:
Lotus to launch new Exige-based rally car | Secret New Cars | Car Magazine Online (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/Lotus-to-launch-new-Exige-based-rally-car/)
"Lotus will homologate the 300 models necessary in time for launch in January 2012"

I posted it in another thread some time ago, I don't remember which one anyway.
Of course I would like an Exige rally car, but this rumors started in May, and until now it has been so quiet... can we trust it?

[wildboar]

Well, September is soon, then we will know more. Unfortunately, I could not find any new article that doesn't simply qoute from CAR magazine article.

[wildboar]

Some news on the new Lotus rallye car that was rumoured to be presented in Frankfurt later this month:


Lotus plans to show three new cars. The company hints that one of its Frankfurt debutantes will be "one of the quickest road cars Lotus has ever built" while the other "marks the return of Lotus to another adrenaline-filled motorsport discipline."
Lotus Elise S To Be Joined by Two New Models at 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show (http://www.insideline.com/lotus/elise/lotus-elise-s-to-be-joined-by-two-new-models-at-2011-frankfurt-auto-show.html)

Well, an "another adrenaline-filled motorsport discipline", could be rallye, couldn't it?

[focus206]

Some news on the new Lotus rallye car that was rumoured to be presented in Frankfurt later this month:


Lotus Elise S To Be Joined by Two New Models at 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show (http://www.insideline.com/lotus/elise/lotus-elise-s-to-be-joined-by-two-new-models-at-2011-frankfurt-auto-show.html)

Well, an "another adrenaline-filled motorsport discipline", could be rallye, couldn't it?

It could be, and I hope it is, but "marks the return of Lotus"...
Return? When did Lotus competed in rallying? Maybe they're talking about a series in which Lotus already competed? Or maybe they just used "return" just because it sounded better :D

[hsmed]

Return? When did Lotus competed in rallying?
The Talbot Sunbeam from the early 80's did have a Lotus engine, didn't it?

[AndyRAC]

I have been very disappeared by the lack of interest in this class. I can only think the FiA have had pressure placed on them by WRC Manufacturers in case the GT’s are more spectacular.

Let’s hope this Lotus Exige is the start of a few more coming in. Maybe the sport will gain a bit more respect having proper cars, rather than family runarounds as the basis for Rally cars.

[focus206]

Also the (rare) Cortina had a Lotus engine, earlier in the 70's...

Oh right, the Cortina and the Sunbeam, I didn't thought about them :D
Well, even if was just the engine by Lotus of that cars, now "return" could make sense...

[Sulland]

If anyone had a go from Porsche, their GT 911 should also be quite easy to homologate for the GT class. Are any firm working on that process ?

[Mirek]

Timo Bernhard is driving official Porsche in German championship.

[Gregor-y]

The Talbot Sunbeam from the early 80's did have a Lotus engine, didn't it?
Some early Chevettes had Lotus cylinder heads, too.

[Sulland]

Timo Bernhard is driving official Porsche in German championship.

Yes, but this one only have a national approval, has it not? Are there any initiatives to fia approve it?

[wildboar]

Here the official Lotus countdown to Frankfurt:
Lotus Cars - Frankfurt International Motor Show 2011 (http://www.lotuscars.com/en/frankfurt-2011)
they are not saying more than what we know already, "the return of Lotus to another adrenalin filled motorsport discipline."

[focus206]

Hmm... I see in the section "Motorsport" of that website, that Lotus is already in maaany series, so "another motorsport" could rally mean rallying...

[CurtEgerer]

Some interesting stage time comparisons of the Penske GT3 Cup ST vs. ex-WRC, Grp N, S2000, etc. at Rallye Wartburg (tarmac).

In The Garage: Penske Sportwagenzentrum 911 GT3 Cup ST (http://rgruppe.blogspot.com/2011/08/penske-sportwagenzentrum-911-gt3-cup-st.html)

[wildboar]

Hmm... I see in the section "Motorsport" of that website, that Lotus is already in maaany series, so "another motorsport" could rally mean rallying...
Especially, it says "motorsport discipline". Just another GT racing series hardly counts as another discipline. Also, they might not join a specific series (i.e. IRC or WRC), but just sell cars and support for the rally "discipline". So I think the formulation fits well. We will see on Tuesday...

[AndyRAC]

Some interesting stage time comparisons of the Penske GT3 Cup ST vs. ex-WRC, Grp N, S2000, etc. at Rallye Wartburg (tarmac).

In The Garage: Penske Sportwagenzentrum 911 GT3 Cup ST (http://rgruppe.blogspot.com/2011/08/penske-sportwagenzentrum-911-gt3-cup-st.html)

Some good times, though it helps having a driver of Timo's class. A very underrated driver.

[focus206]

Also, they might not join a specific series (i.e. IRC or WRC), but just sell cars and support for the rally "discipline". So I think the formulation fits well.
Yes, I think that in the case they join rallying, it would be in this way. Anyway, can't wait for Tuesday to see the car!

[focus206]

So, the Lotus Exige R-GT has been revealed:
Google Traduttore (http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.it%2Fpost%2F35057%2Flo tus-exige-s-exige-r-gt-ed-evora-gte-salone-di-francoforte-live-2011)
Thoughts?

[PLuto]

So, the Lotus Exige R-GT has been revealed:
Google Traduttore (http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.it%2Fpost%2F35057%2Flo tus-exige-s-exige-r-gt-ed-evora-gte-salone-di-francoforte-live-2011)
Thoughts?

Yes, here it is also with direct quote from Claudio Berro, who is responsible for this project - Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=12746) (or in english Google PYeklada (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=cs&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php%3Fcl%3D12746))

[wildboar]

More details on the Exige R-GT, including quotes and technical details:
Lotus Cars - The Return of Lotus to Rally (http://www.lotuscars.com/en/frankfurt-rally-exige)

[OldF]

The Lotus brings back memories when there were cars like Porsche 911, Renault Alpine, Lancia Stratos and Lancia 037 in international rallies.

[AndyRAC]

The Lotus brings back memories when there were cars like Porsche 911, Renault Alpine, Lancia Stratos and Lancia 037 in international rallies.

Yeah, great cars....and look what we have now, glorified shopping trolleys.......

[Rally Power]

Yeah, great cars....and look what we have now, glorified shopping trolleys.......

Most successful rally car ever, the Escort, wasn´t much better looking...

Major rally legends were mass production derivate models, keeping the sport closer to everyday's and everybody's cars!

That's one of the discipline main foundations that modern WRC's and S2000's carry out greatly!

Let's face it: nowadays exclusive and unafordable GT's aren't suitable with rally spirit and their involvement could just be regarded as marketing operations.

Maybe that's way we only see this Lotus being linked to a reduced tarmac program.

[Plan9]

How will the GT Class be run? I must say the Lotus Exige R-GT is a beautiful car and I am not sure the Hayden Paddon's of this world could afford one? Are the GT cars rear wheel drive? Will they be run of gravel rounds?

[Plan9]

Lotus Exige R-GT to Bring British Brand Back to Rally Racing: 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/09/lotus-exige-r-gt-to-bring-british-brand-back-to-rally-racing-2011-frankfurt-auto-show.html)
According to this article Lotus have not had approval from head Office for the Rally Programme.
What other cars will be in the GT Class?
Will they all be rear wheel drive?
Does anyone have an update about what series these cars will appear in?

[Mirek]

Lotus Exige should appear at least in Monte Carlo, Corsica and Sanremo next year. And yes, it is RWD.

[wildboar]

What do you think is meant with "the Exige R-GT will participate in the newly formed FIA GT category of the FIA Rally Championship on asphalt in Monte Carlo, Tour de Corse and San Remo." (on the official Lotus page)?

Does this really mean, that the FIA will be running a "GT Rally Cup" with those 3 events? Or did Lotus just select those events? The first option would be great. Especially if more manufacturers join. Any news from Porsche?

[focus206]

What do you think is meant with "the Exige R-GT will participate in the newly formed FIA GT category of the FIA Rally Championship on asphalt in Monte Carlo, Tour de Corse and San Remo." (on the official Lotus page)?

Does this really mean, that the FIA will be running a "GT Rally Cup" with those 3 events? Or did Lotus just select those events? The first option would be great. Especially if more manufacturers join. Any news from Porsche?

I think that the number of events of a FIA Championship must be at least 6, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, they could add more asphalt rounds, like Catalunya, Alsace and Deutschland.

[Sulland]

What is the price estimate for the Lotus ?

[darkstar]

wonderful car!

[Sulland]

So, then it looks like we will have a mid- and a rear engined car if Porsche will get homologation. Will anyone take the chance on a front engined car, maybe the Nissan 370, an Aston Martin, a Jaguar or a BMW ?

Then all bases on back wheel drive are covered, and I guess front wheel drive GT is out of the question !

Really looking forward to seeing this class taking its place in Rally !

[AndyRAC]

So, then it looks like we will have a mid- and a rear engined car if Porsche will get homologation. Will anyone take the chance on a front engined car, maybe the Nissan 370, an Aston Martin, a Jaguar or a BMW ?

Then all bases on back wheel drive are covered, and I guess front wheel drive GT is out of the question !

Really looking forward to seeing this class taking its place in Rally !

No, No, and thrice No!! A FWD GT......Sacrilege!! ;)

Real cars are RWD.....

[wildboar]

The video presentation of the Lotus Exige R-GT:
The all-new Exige R-GT Rally Car - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=378zCqQW2r8)

[wildboar]

Some new information on the Exige R-GT:
Rallying Call: Lotus Exige R-GT (http://blog.roadandtrack.com/rallying-call-lotus-exige-r-gt/)

Interesting points:

- The FIA’s, Jean Todt asked Lotus Director of Motorsport, Claudio Berro to work with his colleagues at Aston Martin and Porsche to devise a set of global rules that would attract the likes of Alfa Romeo with its 4C and Nissan (GT-R) and Renault with the rumored imminent return of Alpine to run in GT class on rounds of the World Rally Championship.

- Components are currently undergoing tests in a mule Evora before being transferred to the Exige R-GT displayed at Frankfurt, “We will test the car on tarmac with specialist French and Italian drivers and on gravel with British or Finnish drivers,” explained Berro. [gravel!?]

- Lotus, Berro said, had already received interest from an Italian outfit wanting to run a works team but “I would rather have teams from the UK, France, Spain, Italy, the U.S. all competing together."

- "I expect the car’s performance to be about 1.5 secs slower per kilometer than a Super2000 car but on some stages, like asphalt, we could, for sure, be quicker.”

[N.O.T]

The GT class in my opinion is a golden oportunity for the FIA to bring huge publicity in rallying....which means that they will not do anything about it, because the girls and ladyboys from F1 might lose their "dough".

[Dug83]

This could be very exciting class(at last) with a couple more manufactures.

I t would be interesting to see what drivers it would attract. The likes of Francois Delecour and Didier Auriol or some younger drivers or rich business men.

[Maui J.]

Some new information on the Exige R-GT:
Rallying Call: Lotus Exige R-GT (http://blog.roadandtrack.com/rallying-call-lotus-exige-r-gt/)

Interesting points:

- The FIA’s, Jean Todt asked Lotus Director of Motorsport, Claudio Berro to work with his colleagues at Aston Martin and Porsche to devise a set of global rules that would attract the likes of Alfa Romeo with its 4C and Nissan (GT-R) and Renault with the rumored imminent return of Alpine to run in GT class on rounds of the World Rally Championship.

- Components are currently undergoing tests in a mule Evora before being transferred to the Exige R-GT displayed at Frankfurt, “We will test the car on tarmac with specialist French and Italian drivers and on gravel with British or Finnish drivers,” explained Berro. [gravel!?]

- Lotus, Berro said, had already received interest from an Italian outfit wanting to run a works team but “I would rather have teams from the UK, France, Spain, Italy, the U.S. all competing together."

- "I expect the car’s performance to be about 1.5 secs slower per kilometer than a Super2000 car but on some stages, like asphalt, we could, for sure, be quicker.”

This is a great move.
It would have to be a tarmac only championship. It would be a bit embarrassing for a GT car to be seen getting it's bum kicked by the shopping carts on the gravel events. We would understand this but the casual sports fan on the street wouldn't. I can't see the GT manufacturers seeing that as a great marketing tool.

Whereas a tarmac championship would be fantastic. It could bring a lot of new names (or famous names of the past) to the podium.
It reminds me when the 2WD Xsara kit car of Bugaski won Catalunya and Corsica in 1999, beating the Impreza, Focus, Corolla etc 4WD WRC cars. Not saying that the Xsara was by anyway a GT car, but it made for a very interesting event.

Bring it on!

Question: The Nissan GT-R is a 4WD vehicle, would this be eligible?

[focus206]

The thing is very interesting, I really hope they lead it to something concrete, not just talking about his and that manufacturer ;)

[Plan9]

This is exciting. I think the Exige is amazing. I can't wait to see what it will be like on gravel. I am a little disppointed Lotus didn't think to make choose a cheaper car for the rally project as I think the Tanaks and Paddons of this world would take their money elsewhere. I wonder why Lotus didn't just tune someone else's car as they did with Talbot.

[Sulland]

As said in the article in Road & Track: the car costs $156,000 plus local taxes. That means 156,000.00 USD = 115,379.79 EUR after todays currency converter.

Not a bad price if the car delivers what it looks like and tech data. Many Gentleman Drivers, and old top drivers could have a lot of fun in this car !

Has the testing started on the mule started yet, and have anyone filmed it ?

If this one is close to the truth, it would also be a perfect R-GT car: http://facecarsx.com/sport-cars/2012-renault-alpine-sports-coupe-design-study/

[mousti]

Put Duez in the car ^^

[focus206]

I see in the Dutch Rally Championship there are some Nissan 350Z and 370Z... what about them?

[Plan9]

As said in the article in Road & Track: the car costs $156,000 plus local taxes. That means 156,000.00 USD = 115,379.79 EUR after todays currency converter.

Not a bad price if the car delivers what it looks like and tech data. Many Gentleman Drivers, and old top drivers could have a lot of fun in this car !

Has the testing started on the mule started yet, and have anyone filmed it ?

If this one is close to the truth, it would also be a perfect R-GT car: renault alpine,new renault,renault sports,renault alpine concept,new renault alpine,car designs of the future,coupe sports car,new car design,coupe sport cars,car engine design,2012 renault alpine sports coupe design study : FACECARS-X (http://facecarsx.com/sport-cars/2012-renault-alpine-sports-coupe-design-study/)

These are interesting figures. Although the Lotus is a beautiful thing I am not sure there are many Kiwis who could afford one unfortunately. I am interested to know how this package compare to what Prodrive if offering for a Mini. I would have felt that with Prodrive you would get a ST2000 (1.6) and a WRC, as well as technical support for more rallies than Lotus can offer with the Exige. Is this correct???

[Mirek]

For sure but You pay much more for Mini. The biggest difference must be in running cost.

[Sulland]

Now that we know the first car is made for this class, what do we know of homologation for a 911, are anyone working on that ?

[HaCo]

That Alpine looks great!

[Zico]

More details on the Exige R-GT, including quotes and technical details:
Lotus Cars - The Return of Lotus to Rally (http://www.lotuscars.com/en/frankfurt-rally-exige)


Very disapointing and confusing that this page has disapeared from Lotus's website... :/

Maybe I am wearing pink tinted specs but the GT class could prove to be a major factor in the possible re-emergance of rallying as the number 1 form of motorsport in popularity since the demise of Grp B... The return of Lotus would be a huge coup!... Why do I have this gut wrenching feeling that it is not going to happen?

[wildboar]

Very disapointing and confusing that this page has disapeared from Lotus's website... :/

It just moved:
News - The Return of Lotus to Rally (http://www.lotuscars.com/news/en/exige-rally-frankfurt)

[Zico]

[quote="wildboar"]It just moved:
News - The Return of Lotus to Rally (http://www.lotuscars.com/news/en/exige-rally-frankfurt)[/QUOTE

Thank you!

[wildboar]

Maybe I am wearing pink tinted specs but the GT class could prove to be a major factor in the possible re-emergance of rallying as the number 1 form of motorsport in popularity since the demise of Grp B... The return of Lotus would be a huge coup!... Why do I have this gut wrenching feeling that it is not going to happen?

I also think it is great news and can't wait to see the GT cars on some nice stages, hopefully already in Monte Carlo. However, there should definitely be more than one manufacturer. Also, they probably won't match the speed of the World Rally Cars, but if they can match the S2000 on tarmac, they would be an excellent option in the IRC and ERC, both having more tarmac than gravel rounds.

[Gordini]

Will GT have class in 2012, news please.

[Mirek]

They already have class since January...

[Sulland]

Would love to see Henning S in a GT car, but are any of them homologated yet, or will that happen btw today and Monte Carlo ?

[wildboar]

They always indicated that the Lotus Exige R-GT should be homologated and ready for Monte Carlo.
It will be displayed next week at the LA Auto Show. Maybe there will be more information in connection with that event.

LA Auto Show (http://laautoshow.com/Debuts.aspx)

[gtimad73]

does any one know if lotus (works team)will enter the monte, or will we have to wait for some privateer to take the plunge. the lotus artical doesn't really make it very clear

[focus206]

does any one know if lotus (works team)will enter the monte, or will we have to wait for some privateer to take the plunge. the lotus artical doesn't really make it very clear

I think they made the car just for privateers. I don't see any chances to see a works/sem-works team...

[Mirek]

They said they will run several events like Monte Carlo or Sanremo so I guess they will have a works car at least for promotional starts.

[focus206]

They said they will run several events like Monte Carlo or Sanremo so I guess they will have a works car at least for promotional starts.

Really? I missed it. Great!

[gtimad73]

I think they made the car just for privateers. I don't see any chances to see a works/sem-works team...
thats a shame. i miss not having oddball cars in the wrc like back in the day

[CWJ]

Now that we know the first car is made for this class, what do we know of homologation for a 911, are anyone working on that ?

No. Nothing planned yet. They just observe szene and regulations. Since they do costumer sport only, it will take time...

[pantealex]

They said they will run several events like Monte Carlo or Sanremo so I guess they will have a works car at least for promotional starts.
Lotus + Kimi = Monte ?

[Mirek]

According to a friend Luca Rossetti is new works driver of Lotus and will drive it in ERC!

[wildboar]

According to a friend Luca Rossetti is new works driver of Lotus and will drive it in ERC!

That's great news! I hope it is true. ERC is of course great for GT cars with 10 out of 12 rounds on tarmac. I am really curious how they perform compared to the S2000.

[Sulland]

According to a friend Luca Rossetti is new works driver of Lotus and will drive it in ERC!

That sounds like a perfect combination !

[liposh]

How many ERC rounds has he got in his plan for season 2012? Lotus planned Monte Carlo, Tour de Corse and San Remo rally, but this is not that plan of Rossetti.

[wildboar]

And does this mean he will already do the Jaenner-Rallye in a Lotus?

[mousti]

Autoklub reported it too! Why aren't those WRC events not the plan of Luca?? If he's getting a factory drive he will not refuse it, last few years he had to search everywhere to get budget.

[wildboar]

In the latest GPweek, the Monte Carlo clerk of the course, Christian Tornatore says:
"We also hope that there will be a return of sports car to rallying soon. The R-GT regulations are ready, but the cars have not arrived in time for Monte Carlo. "

GP Week (http://mag.gpweek.com/?iid=56908) (page 63).

Sound like there will be no GT cars for the 2012 Monte Carlo.... :(

[HaCo]

Hope to see the team in Ypres with Luca!

[urabus-denoS2000]

Hope Luca will aim for his 3rd Croatian victory in a row :)

[Sulland]

Has Rossetti started to test the Lotus yet, or has he not driven it at all yet?

[Sulland]

What is the name of the team that is behind Rossettis R-GT campaign ?

[PLuto]

Lotus Motorsport? :)

[Sulland]

Lotus Motorsport? :)

Yes :)
But here it is mentioned that it is another team doing the job for him:

Yes, it is new R-GT car. He will use it in ERC. AFAIK there are same people behind this project as were on start of Punto S2000 project.

So what team is this, Grifone ?

[Mirek]

No, I never said that. I meant that some people in Lotus Motorsport are same as were in Abarth (like for example Lotus Motorsport boss Claudio Berro).

[Sulland]

Ahh, so you ment the full project, and not Rossetti's project.
Sorry my mistake.

So Lotus Motorsport will do ERC as a team, cool !

[wildboar]

Testing of the new Lotus Exige R-T will start next week in Sanremo, probably with Luca Rossetti. Homologation not before April 2012:

http://www.therallysite.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10119&Itemid=89

[wildboar]

With a 1 April homologation, the Exige could make its international debut at the Circuit of Ireland (6-7 April), and we will then see it most likely at the Rally 1000 Miglia (19-21 April).

[Sulland]

Not sure, but maybe Lotus will keep this one updated, Lotus Cars - The Return of Lotus to Rally (http://www.lotuscars.com/en/frankfurt-exige-r-gt) or is there another site for the project?

Hopefully we will see some video from the testing, when that starts!

[wildboar]

There is a "mini site" with several articles and videos about the Exige S (and the R-GT), which is updated once in a while: Lotus Cars - The Exige S Development Story (http://www.lotuscars.com/en/exige-development-story) (most recently a video about the Exige S tests at Hethel).

So there is a chance that they will also post updates on the R-GT development/testing.

[João C.]

Bernardo Sousa has confirmed that he could become a Lotus driver in 2012.
Rally Mania: Bernardo Sousa perto da Lotus (http://rally-mania.blogspot.com/2011/12/bernardo-sousa-perto-da-lotus.html)

[wildboar]

A very interesting and detailed interview with Claudio Berro on the development of the Exige R-GT:
http://www.therallysite.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10124&Itemid=89

He talks about the drafting of the R-GT rules, the connections to Abarth, the Exige development, other manufacurers (very few), their future plans, etc.

[OldF]

A very interesting and detailed interview with Claudio Berro on the development of the Exige R-GT:
http://www.therallysite.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10124&Itemid=89

He talks about the drafting of the R-GT rules, the connections to Abarth, the Exige development, other manufacurers (very few), their future plans, etc.

MH: Lotus Formula 1 has a rally driver now (Kimi Raikkonen)! Will you could get him to test the car?
CB: After following Kimi’s activities in the last couple of years, I think the teams would be a little bit worried about that! :D

[Sulland]

Just adding the first filmed test here as well: www.AutoSport.CZ (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=94&p=57619#p57619)

Still some work to do I can see. Who was driving on the Micky Mouse track?

[N.O.T]

MH: Lotus Formula 1 has a rally driver now (Kimi Raikkonen)! Will you could get him to test the car?
CB: After following Kimi’s activities in the last couple of years, I think the teams would be a little bit worried about that! :D

So according to martin Holmes Kimi is a rally driver...ok

who is Martin Holmes again ????

[Sulland]

Here it looks like Lotus is trying to make it ready for Monte C. Lotus Shakes Down Its Rally-Spec Exige | Autopia | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/12/lotuss-rally-spec-exige/)
But will it then run as an 0 car or something, since as far as I know it is not homologated yet.

[Mirek]

In my opinion it's just a mistake in the article which the author took from old news.

[garais22]

Sounds good!!!
Rallija "Lotus GT" veic pirmos metrus (VIDEO) - Go4speed (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/autosports-pasaule/541-rallija-lotus-gt-veic-pirmos-metrus-video/)

[Barreis]

GT class is only for fun.

[liposh]

Do you think the speed of Lotus will be somewhere around S2000 cars? People from Lotus said the speed will be in the middle between R3T and S2000...but is there some kind of event, where they can win?

[mousti]

Against a S2000 with a good driver in it? I think nowhere. I think they're right about what predict about the speed will be probably something around that.

[Barreis]

They have no chance at all. It's just for fun to see these cars around.

[Sulland]

Sounds good!!!
Rallija "Lotus GT" veic pirmos metrus (VIDEO) - Go4speed (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/autosports-pasaule/541-rallija-lotus-gt-veic-pirmos-metrus-video/)

What does he say here?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Well, this is just bizarre - it's the first I've heard of GT cars rallying.

[liposh]

tommeke: Don´t forget the old GT cars are more powerful but they can´t compete in IRC etc. This new lotus is build according to FIA 2012 regulations and it will be slower.

[Mirek]

tommeke: Don´t forget the old GT cars are more powerful but they can´t compete in IRC etc. This new lotus is build according to FIA 2012 regulations and it will be slower.

Not all, some Belgian GTs are more powerful but still most of them are close to stock machinery. That means for example 911 is much heavier than Lotus (some 150-200 kg). 911 should also have worse handling because of engine behind rear axle and overall worse weight balance etc. Nissans and BMWs have the problem of very bad traction due to frontal engine which in many Belgian events is big problem (lot of dirt, mud or even gravel on stages). Nissans from Dutch cup are not more powerful at all and they are moreover much heavier (these are almost stock cars).

If You count 300 Hp and 1200 kg for Lotus which seems to be pretty much real, You get 0,25 Hp/kg. If You count approximately 380 Hp for 1350 kg for 911 with stock engine You get 0,28 Hp/kg. That's small difference which in my opinion can hardly make what Lotus must gain by smaller weight and better weight balance. Also the Lotus has paddle shifting and rally suited gear ratios (even if You use the shortest circuit supercup gearbox for 911, still the top speed is almost 250 km/h which seems to be a bit too much for rallying).

[garais22]

What does he say here?


Now ''Lotus Exige R-GT" will start only on asphalt, but in the future there is plan to start Sweden (snow) and maybee some gravel rallies :D
Engine will be good only after 20 000 - 30 000 km of tests
Maybee some days in this class will start Porsche..

[Mirek]

I think that this is wrong translation of interview of Claudio Berro with Martin Holmes. Berro said that he dreams about getting the car in Sweden, so it's more like a "maybe". The figure for engine was for an interval between rebuilds. He said the engine is completely stock, so it can be run by 20-30 thousand competitive kilometers without rebuild which means several complete seasons. He said they don't need some special testing for the engine when it must be stock.

[garais22]

I think that this is wrong translation of interview of Claudio Berro with Martin Holmes. Berro said that he dreams about getting the car in Sweden, so it's more like a "maybe". The figure for engine was for an interval between rebuilds. He said the engine is completely stock, so it can be run by 20-30 thousand competitive kilometers without rebuild which means several complete seasons. He said they don't need some special testing for the engine when it must be stock.
Yeah, You are right..I just not correct translate it here... ;)

[Sulland]

Could someone that understand spanish give a short translation on what is said about the spanish Exige here: PlanetaRAS TV :: Campeonato Nacional :: Sergio Vallejo (http://www.planetaras.tv/nacional/video/4945)
I understand from numbers that it has 290 hp and weight of 850 kg, but the rest - no clue !

He is explaining the golden stick in the middle, and compare it to the Porsche, what is he saying here ?

[RICARDO75]

He said that Lotus is cheaper then Porsche. From the Cup version, it as more 30bhp (290bhp), sequential gear box and bigger disck brakes. The big advantage is to have a low weight (850kg), least 300 than the Porsche.
It has little space inside but the controls are all at hand. The years spent in Porsche gave him much experience in this kind of cars. The lotus is not a car to fear.

[darkstar]

is he pushing to handbreake instead of pulling?

[RICARDO75]

is he pushing to handbreake instead of pulling?

Yes. Had to be opposed because it has little space inside the car. If the handbrake were normal, the pilot would beat with his arm on co-driver

[Mirek]

I think that the Spanish cars doesn't say that much about R-GT. The specification of both Porsche and Lotus is completely different and also the Lotus is made of different generation of Exige.

[RICARDO75]

I agree with you Mirek. The Exige R-GT it's a new car and also, the spanish Lotus doesn't have 3.500cc turbo engine like the R-GT.
The Exige Cup 260 is with an 1.800cc compressor engine from Toyota Corolla TTE Compressor with 225bhp

[danon]

Rumors: Proton May be Forced to Sell Loss-Making Lotus Brand - Carscoop (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/12/rumors-proton-may-be-forced-to-sell.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Carscoop+%28CARSCOOP%29)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

A lot of people have believed that for a while now, given Dany Bahar's high-risk marketing strategy of sponsoring a Formula 1, GP2 and GP3 team as well as several Indycar outfits.

[N.O.T]

At first the exige Rally thing sure sounded promising... but now i am certain its nothing more than a publicity stunt before Lotus kicks the bucket... maybe 1-2 runs with tourists behind the wheel showcasing useless sideways action in rallying, and a lot of salon-parading around EU.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

That's a nice theory. There's just one problem with it - it doesn't get Lotus anything.

The current rumours of Lotus' financial system do not say that the company will go into receivership. They claim that Proton will put Lotus up for sale before Lotus starts to drag Proton down with it. Whoever buys Lotus can turn the company around, but it will take a lot of effort.

[Ucci]

Well, IMHO the film clip with Vallejo's Lotus shows already that this small Exige Cup is no threat in therms of speed to his ex-championship 911 GT3 Cup. Porsche is a beast compare to Exige.

[Mirek]

But the GT3 Cup is way far from what it could be under R-GT regulations, so it says nothing about R-GTs.

[Jarek Z]

A very interesting and detailed interview with Claudio Berro on the development of the Exige R-GT:
http://www.therallysite.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10124&Itemid=89

He talks about the drafting of the R-GT rules, the connections to Abarth, the Exige development, other manufacurers (very few), their future plans, etc.

Thank you for the link. A very interesting interview indeed :up:
Now I know a lot more about this exciting project, but still don't understand why Lotus decided to engage in rallying, especially after I read that the car will be much slower than S2000...

Good luck to this project anyway! Everything is better than just another group N Lancer ;)

[Rally Power]

In order to get serious, R-GT needs WRC exposure.
That means gravel development, but unless FIA gives manufactureurs more technical liberty to elaborate competitive gravel kits, this category seems another mislaid opportunity to promote rallysport.
Anyway, Lotus intention to get gravel evolution should be applauded!

[Mirek]

In order to get serious, R-GT needs WRC exposure.
That means gravel development, but unless FIA gives manufactureurs more technical liberty to elaborate competitive gravel kits, this category seems another mislaid opportunity to promote rallysport.
Anyway, Lotus intention to get gravel evolution should be applauded!

I tend to disagree with You.

It's virtually impossible to make a GT competitive on gavel against 4WD cars whatever the rules are. The only result would be a high grow of price of such car. In the moment it's intended to be a fun for the driver and in the same time also an affordable option based on suitable stock basis (unlike prototypes made of shopping bags completely useless for any kind of competition). Plus also an interesting car for spectators and sponsors.

[Rally Power]

I'm not talking about making GT cars competitive against 4wd machinery Mirek, only to promote their use in gravel rallies.
WRC could benefit from an all surface GT series inside it, like PWRC for Gr. N or SWRC for S2000, even if directed mostly to second level drivers runing on a fun basis.
Making a GT series complementar to WRC would boost spectators and sponsors interest on the world championship and, at same time, bring more manus to the R-GT category.
Keeping R-GT only for tarmac use on regional or national series it's keeping it in a guetho from witch it hardly leave.

[Sulland]

R-GT will eventually be a all surface class. They just start off with the asfalt one.

[Sulland]

Has there been any Lotus testing or development lately ?

[danon]

Kimi Raikkonen :D

[Mirek]

Raikkonen has strictly forbidden rallying in his F1 contract if I'm not mistaken.

[Francis44]

Raikkonen has strictly forbidden rallying in his F1 contract if I'm not mistaken.

I dont think so, according to what he said a few days back he will eventually do some rally's and his contract does not prevent it.

[Sulland]

I dont think so, according to what he said a few days back he will eventually do some rally's and his contract does not prevent it.

Would love to see him in a GT Lotus!

[wildboar]

Finally some good news about the Lotus Exige:

The Lotus International Rally team is set to make its race debut in April in the FIA European Rally Championship. Bernardo Sousa is in-line to race the new Exige R-GT at the Rally 1000 Miglia in Brescia, Italy, on 19-21 April.

Photos du mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1071470&l=291c159c38&id=135849009792886)

[wildboar]

And some more information here:
Lotus Racing set for tarmac & grass roots | The Lotus Forums (http://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-racing-set-for-tarmac-grass-roots/)

Fantastic livery:
http://cdn.thelotusforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Exige-S.jpg

[Sulland]

Beautiful livery the JPS one, but the red, white and blue was not bad either !

Looking forward to see it driven in anger !

[HaCo]

Looking forward to this debut!

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

[Mirek]

According to our new Czech Lotus team it's all getting delayed and car will be ready probably only in June.

[mousti]

I hope everything gets ready on time for the Official team to get on the startline of Mille Miglia..

[Sulland]

Yes if homologated, they should do Mille Miglia, if only to gain experience.

[wildboar]

Bernardo Sousa is testing the Lotus Exige in Italy today.
ERC / Primi test in Liguria per la Lotus Exige R-GT (http://www.rallyemotion.it/erc-primi-test-liguria-la-lotus-exige-r-gt/)
http://www.rallyemotion.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/sousa_nuova.jpg

[wildboar]

Here the first video of the Lotus Exige testing in Italy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haQqKPZFY9Y

[Tom206wrc]

Next month in France(rallye Lyon-Charbonnières)will be the first Peugeot RCZ Rally in GT10 class :)

[wildboar]

The Lotus International Rally team headed to the legendary rally Tarmac of St Remo, Italy, with works drivers Bernardo Sousa and Luca Rossetti. The Exige ran for 85km on Tuesday and 75km on Wednesday this week, and the testing was largely trouble free except for a small supercharger problem, which was remedied by changing the compressor belt. The team will carry out another two-day test ahead of the R-GT’s race debut in FIA European Rally Championship on 19-21 April in Italy’s Rally 1000 Miglia.

Bernardo Sousa: “I’m loving every km in the car, there is some work to do, but I’m sure that in the near future we will have some very good results, the car has great potential”
Claudio Berro, director of Lotus Racing: “The Lotus Exige R-GT’s development continues to go to plan and we were satisfied with the performance, mileage and data we got from the car and drivers. We did a lot of work on set-up, and we should be perfectly prepared with a final two day test, schedule within the next ten days. Next week we’ll be having a visit from the FIA to homologate the car, so things are coming together quickly. It’s really exciting.”


Lotus Cars (http://www.seloc.org/2012/03/lotus-cars-rallying-st-remo-test/) (with many pictures).

[wildboar]

Another video from the San Remo tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loNrzCrin_I

[focus206]

I read that probably Lotus won't do Mille Miglia, but will start the ERC program in Croatia :\

[Sulland]

Yes if homologated, they should do Mille Miglia, if only to gain experience.

Why not get experience on 1000, and build on that? Are they afraid not to have the speed or not get to the finish, or both?

[HaCo]

I hope we see them in Ypres.

[Sulland]

Lotus as course car in Ypres.
FIA is according to this still not done with the regs: The Lotus Exige R-GT at the Geko Ypres Rally (http://www.rallysportlive.com/2012/06/the-lotus-exige-r-gt-at-the-geko-ypres-rally/)

[navtheace]

Aston GT Rally Car here Aston Martin RallyGT : RALLY CARS FOR SALE (http://www.wrctrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=844)

[Mirek]

That doesn't comply with FIA R-GT regs.

[Brother John]

GT cars do not belong in rally is my opinion, especially not in times with economic problems everywhere.

[Sulland]

According to the latest GPWeek Lotus has gotten a clear signal to go ahead with the final part of the homologation process !

[Sulland]

Did anyone, organizers or team manage to get some times on the Lotus in Ypres?

[HaCo]

The presence of the Lotus in Ypres was plain awesome! The looks very agile, a lot better than the Porsche I think.

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

[mousti]

Sousa told me his times were good enough for the Top 10..

[dimviii]

Sousa told me his times were good enough for the Top 10..

so not so good...

[titi_62]

The Lotus was quite fast. It seems to be efficient, easier to handle than a Porsche, but it seems to be less powerfull !
Lotus have to continue it development, a battle Porsche / Lotus / Nissan 370z could be very great !

[kiil]

so not so good...

No, top 10 in Ypres with a new car would have been a horrible result.

[Mirek]

I saw the car on quite many stages in Ypres, always fast places, often with bumps.

As it was said, the engine isn't powerful like one would expect for a GT car. The engine sounds rather quiet and boring. The restriction by the rules together with extra weight is probably too much.
Suspension is a lot worse than in S2000 cars but that's nothing new I think.
Overall there is no chance this car could fight with S2000 cars but I think everyone knew that already before the rally. It would be more interesting to compare times with Aigner or especially Van den Heuvel.

But... the car IS beautiful!

[TheFlyingTuga]

Geko Ypres Rally 2012 - Bernardo Sousa - Lotus Exige R-GT - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS0H6xJ5xK8)

Mirek, as you can see from this video, Bernardo is not pushing the revs to the maximum! I will expect to see a bit more of the car, especially when it goes on his official debut, not as a course car. But I conquer with you... the suspension seems to be rubish... at least in this rally!

Cheers

[dimviii]

.. the suspension seems to be rubish... at least in this rally!

Cheers

+1 not rubish but also dangerous comparing with other cars passes from same corners.

[Mirek]

Geko Ypres Rally 2012 - Bernardo Sousa - Lotus Exige R-GT - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS0H6xJ5xK8)

Mirek, as you can see from this video, Bernardo is not pushing the revs to the maximum!

The engine has supercharger and rather small restrictor. The power can't be in very high rpm. I really don't believe he was not using the power of the car. In the video he is shifting quite well according to the indication.

By the way we were on this stage at the combination of corners after 7:10 :)

[TheFlyingTuga]

Well, normally I change gears when the dots are all lighten. So, it's because of that, that I said that he was not using all the juice!

[GL Media Pro]

OnBoard Bernardo Sousa (Lotus Exige R-GT) Ypres Rally SS. 2:

https://vimeo.com/44562054

[Sulland]

How did the car sound and look handelingwise from the outsid, you that saw it in Belgium?

What did Sousa say after the rally about driving it in half-anger, and the potential he feels it has?

[wildboar]

The Lotus Exige has finally been homologated! It can thus definitely start at the Madeira Rally.
Lotus Exige S está homologado e estreia na Madeira - Autosport.pt (http://autosport.sapo.pt/lotus-exige-s-esta-homologado-e-estreia-na-madeira=f107073)

[HaCo]

Looking forward to see the performance of the car and hope more will follow.

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[Sulland]

Is Sousa a good development driver, or are there other reasons for choosing him to be lead driver for the Lotus Team?

[Mirek]

Nice video of Lotus tests before Madaira. I like it definitely more than any modern FWD car and I hope someone will use it in the IRC 2WD cup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzuMT3h3dSg

[wildboar]

Here is a report from Lotus on their first rally, with lots of videos: EUROPEAN RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP - RALI VINHO DA MADEIRA | Lotus Cars (http://www.lotuscars.com/gb/news/racing/european-rally-championship-rali-vinho-da-madeira)

Interestingly, they say that there was an electronic problem already on SS2, which affected the times. As they finished that SS 10th, behind most N4 cars, there is some hope that the R-GT is actually faster than N4 - once they sorted out the little problems....

The next step is a 4-day test session in Italy at the end of August.

[wildboar]

Sousa and his Lotus will participate in the Rally Príncipe de Asturias, 13-16 September, the 9th round of the ERC.

El Lotus Exige R-GT planea estar en el Rallye Príncipe de Asturias (http://www.rectademeta.com/lotus-exige-r-gt-planea-estar-rallye-principe-asturias.html)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

If the FIA isn't expecting R-GT cars to make regular appearances in 2013, what happens if Lotus enter the WRC on a regular basis? Would they be in competition with the WRC cars? Because if nobody makes a regular appearance, there's not much point to it.

[wildboar]

I don't think they will actually compete in the WRC, maybe participate in some of the tarmac rallies. They will focus on ERC and IRC, where they might have a chance vs. S2000 (and in IRC to win the 2WD cup).

Too bad that there are no other R-GT manufacturers. I hope that at least Lotus produces more Exiges, so we will at least have a competition among different Lotus drivers.

[navtheace]

Image problem with the R-GT class is clear as to what the world rally car category rules allow.

As in the man on the street will see the following:

Fiesta / DS3 / Mini / Polo etc is faster than a Lotus / Aston Martin / Cayman etc

Why would Porsche, Aston, Lotus etc want to get involved in a form of motor sport that shows that?

[navtheace]

I think the man on the street who is seeing it like you describe doesn't have money for a Porsche, Aston, Lotus etc, so that is not the problem. ;)

Plenty of people who have the money for expensive sports cars and will just casually watch/read about rallying in the media when they see it.

It's the image problem that manufacturers do not want. Especially the likes of Aston and Porsche, two highly respected car brands to be beaten by a Fiesta.

If you were one of the main people of Aston or Porsche and were in a board room meeting discussing what motor sport to spend the millions on with the other top people, share holders etc. How would you sell them the idea of going rallying if someone asked if the Fiesta and DS3 will be faster?

[AndyRAC]

Aston-Martin & Porsche are quite used to being beaten by Audi, Peugeot & Toyota, however, they aren't in the same class; LMP1 V GT-Pro/Am So would it really be any different? WRC Fiesta v R-GT Lotus...

[Franky]

Navtheace, does it really matter to a company if their cars are racing in the gentlemen's league and may be slower than World Rally Cars.

By your logic Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari and Chevrolet with their Corvette should be embarrassed of doing endurance racing, when Audi has dominated the sport for the last decade. It doesn't matter that there are shopping carts faster than your high end sports car, when you are the fastest in your own category.

EDIT: AndyRAC beat me to it.

[stefanvv]

Yeah, that is the reason there is no R8 in Le Mans GT class, there is no point actually for the brand when the LMP1 one wipes out everything else.

Back to the point - that's why there are the different classes. I don't see anything embarrassing for a sports car brand to be in rally GT class while the fastest cars out there are in quite different category - World Rally Car, which usually are everyday city cars.

[janvanvurpa]

Plenty of people who have the money for expensive sports cars and will just casually watch/read about rallying in the media when they see it.

It's the image problem that manufacturers do not want. Especially the likes of Aston and Porsche, two highly respected car brands to be beaten by a Fiesta.

If you were one of the main people of Aston or Porsche and were in a board room meeting discussing what motor sport to spend the millions on with the other top people, share holders etc. How would you sell them the idea of going rallying if someone asked if the Fiesta and DS3 will be faster?

That IS a problem, I see your point. But somebody maybe just a little more cynical than me might point out that's always been the point---and why people that make "sports" cars sell them to millionaires and only bring them out when there's nothing but other millionaires playing with their millionaire cars and some suitably safe and easy venue-----like some simple circuit.

It was always a bit amusing to see the confusion , then anger and disgust when one would show Porsche 911 fans that their beloved cars were routinely annihilated by boxy little MkII Escorts when those cars were driven of normal roads.
They simply could not concieve of the concept that anything was better than their 911.

[dupanton]

Any news on Lotus? Why don't we hear anything anymore from then? Has the project ended? Lack of budget? Or will they drive (ERC?) in 2013?

[Mirek]

According to post of Pluto few days a go the project was canceled.

[dupanton]

What a pity... So the GT class is 1 big fail...

[Sulland]

Was it the Lotus or the rules that were wrong?
Or just lack of developmemt money?

[wildboar]

From today's World Motor Sport Council:

The WMSC has mandated relevant FIA commissions for concrete proposals to empower the presence of GT cars in rallies as soon as possible.

World Motor Sport Council | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-0)

Well, hopefully we will soon see those GT cars!

[Mirek]

The other point is also very interesting - since 1st January 2014 it is allowed for R1-R3 cars to use engine from another stock car (from the same manufacturer's portfolio I suppose). That means for example to build Fabia R3D using engine 2.0 TDI CR from Octavia RS (just a random example).

[wildboar]

From the latest WMSC meeting:


In order to promote the entry of R-GT cars in FIA rallies, with immediate effect tuners will be permitted to develop cars, in accordance with the criteria defining eligible cars. The FIA will issue a technical passport, allowing the car to be eligible for events accepting R-GT cars.
World Motor Sport Council | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-1)

Whatever this means now...

[OldF]

I interpret this that the cars don’t have to be homologated in the traditional way by the manufacturer. Maybe this will help to have more R-GT cars in rallies?

[vino_93]

I hope this is the beginning of new way of homologation for all small classes, from R4 to R1 :)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I'm guessing it's intended as a way of getting these cars into rallies as quickly as possible. The R-GT rules will likely be pretty broad in what they are willing to accept, and will be based on other GT racing series around the world. Provided a car fits the rules of another series, it would be eligible to take part in rallies under the R-GT class. That's what the "technical passport" would be.

[Maui J.]

If this means what I think it does, it is a great move.
It hopefully means the start of some real exotica in rallying. Without the homologation process with manufacturer consent, we may now see some 'supercars' taking to the stages, especially on the tarmac rally.
The old R-GT rules obviously weren't working with only Lotus having a go at making an eligible car.
Can't wait. Thank you FIA for a good decision.

[Sulland]

The GT class is meant for gentlemen drivers that does this for fun, and not to have them in a WRcar.

This might be the trick to get the class moving.

maybe the same could be done for R4 to get a 4wd class for private tuning firms to be creative within a set of sensible rules?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

maybe the same could be done for R4 to get a 4wd class for private tuning firms to be creative within a set of sensible rules?
When it comes to motorsport, "creative" and "sensible" are rarely the same thing.

[Sulland]

Will we see any GT cars homologated in 14, or will this class never be 'born' ?

[Jarek Z]

I"m afraid it is a stillborn baby.

[tommeke_B]

With the rules FIA made, it's not interesting for manufacturers. And only manufacturers can homologate a car... I think GT cars are only to be seen in national championships, where the rules are more free. ;)

[Mirek]

You are not right, since January 2013 R-GT cars can be homologated by a tuner. It's the only class where manufacturer is not needed.

[Sulland]

You are not right, since January 2013 R-GT cars can be homologated by a tuner. It's the only class where manufacturer is not needed.

Do we know any tuners that are in process with a GT car for rally yet?
Could for instance a BMW 1 or 2 series be turned into a Rally-GT Car?

[Mirek]

I have no idea if some tuner works on FIA eligible R-GT car but otherwise there are plenty of privately built GTs under national regulations in France, Spain, Belgium or Germany.

BMW 1er is eligible to be rebuild into almost any rally car as it is normal touring car with two rows of seats.

[wildboar]

In the Monte Carlo Entry List (http://www.acm.mc/documents/4/LISTE%20D ... IORITE.pdf (http://www.acm.mc/documents/4/LISTE%20DES%20ENGAGES%20PAR%20LISTE%20DE%20PRIORIT E.pdf)), there is Marc Duez (Belgium, Number 50) in a Porsche in class RGT listed. Anybody knows anything about this?

[wildboar]

According to specialstages.be (http://specialstages.be/2013/12/21/porsche-monte-carlo/), Duez will be driving a Porsche Cayman. They also say, that the FIA Teechnical Passport that is necessary for an R-GT car will be valid for 2 years for that chassis number. So there is a chance the we can see future appearances of him and/or his car.

Do the same R-GT regulations also apply for the ERC?

[Mirek]

Yes, the rules saying that R-GT car can be given FIA technical passport without manufacturer homologation apply for all FIA events since the start of 2013.

[Veek]

Seems my earlier source was not correct. Duez will drive the PORSCHE 996 GT RS owned by Carlo Mylle in Monte, if FIA Pasport is accepted.