GT Class

[dimviii]

some care about comparison between different classes, some don't, everyone with his own opinion.

here we were talking/answering about performance of the forthcoming cayman from below post


haha can I hope to see this factory car being faster than the WRC2s? haha


If you want to talk about porsche profits/shares after involment at rg-t class,start a different topic

[giu canbera]

Seeing a Fiat Abarth on the podium is ALWAYS a good thing! No matter how many cars are racing...

I wish I was a billionaire... I'd totally build an Abarth to compete in WRC top class hehe

[stefanvv]

here we were talking/answering about performance of the forthcoming cayman from below post

This thread is about RGT class, not WRC2 championship. I can assume You're just trolling.

[dimviii]

This thread is about RGT class, not WRC2 championship. I can assume You're just trolling.

that this thread is about r gt class,doesnt allow you to post stupidity


haha can I hope to see this factory car being faster than the WRC2s? haha



Why would they? I doubt it'll make Porsche sales better if they beat a Fabia?!?

[stefanvv]

that this thread is about r gt class,doesnt allow you to post stupidity

Ok, I'm dirty enough now arguing. Insulting someone is the first sign of helpless in the discussion.

[Mirek]

That's true but I still lack the rationale of this step. Simply why?

[AndyRAC]

Good question - why? Unless they know something we don't. A proper GT series, or a Tarmac series......Porsche don't do things on a whim - there's always a reason.

[Ucci]

Great that Porsche are getting involved the bigger variety of machinery the better. As long as the cars are well driven who cares what class they are in. A true rally fan surely should welcome any new cars at this point in time when motorsport especially the fossil fuelled variety is a dirty word.

Excatly my point! Everyone who is against this class is a stupid one....no matter who the manufacturer is, is welcome on a rally scene.

[Jarek Z]

Excatly my point!

And mine too! One of the things that got me into rallying in the late eighties/early nineties was the variety of competing cars. Nowadays it looks completely different. Any new manufacturer or car is welcome!

[Rally Power]

That's true but I still lack the rationale of this step. Simply why?

More than serving a rational purpose, Porsche history in rally has been always driven by the passion of a few brave guys facing the brand clear orientation towards track racing. Vic Elford (one of Porsche top racing drivers of the late 60’s, early 70’s) had an important role convincing his employer to get 911’s into international rally, while Jurgen Barth (Porsche racing costumer branch chief for decades and a talented driver himself) was a major influence in Porsche cars rally use during Gr.4 and Gr.B years. More recently we had some Porsche importers and dealers involved in national rally and a few private teams, like Tuthill and RD, homologating RGT cars for international use. I’m curious to know more on RM article, but it wouldn’t be surprising if this new effort is another small scale passionate program, probably inspired by the amazing Dumas.

[Jarek Z]

Another interesting result of a GT car in France. Nicolas Ciamin and his Abarth were 5th overall in Rallye Rouergue, a round of French rally championship. Interesting fact - Ciamin won stage 6, where he was faster than all R5 cars.

Final results of RALLYE AVEYRON ROUERGUE 2018:
1. Quentin Gilbert/Renaud Jamoul (F/B) Skoda Fabia R5 1:58.31,0
2. Pierre Roché/Martine Roché (F) Skoda Fabia R5 +2,9
3. Jordan Berfa/Damien Augustin (F) Hyundai i20 R5 +1.08,3
4. Eric Mauffrey/Kévin Bronner (F) Skoda Fabia R5 +1.53,0
5. Nicolas Ciamin/Anthony Vilanova (F) Abarth 124 Rally +3.25,2
6. William Wagner/Kévin Mllet (B/F) Ford Fiesta R5 +4.12,4
7. Jean-Laurent Chivaydel/Nicolas Capoulade (F) Ford Fiesta R5 +4.34,7
8. Cédric Robert/Matthieu Duval (F) Renault Clio R3T +6.34,3
9. Vincent Leduc/Laurence Pelamourgues (F) Hyunsai i20 R5 +6.51,8
10. Alexis Sirmain/Rémi Nolorgues (F) Peugeot 106 +7.05,5

http://www.kaleidosweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01-44_Ninotto_Antibes_2018_Ciamin-Custom.jpg

[Mirek]

Unfortunately his car is not R-GT FIA spec. but otherwise it's of course great to see him setting such result.

[Mirek]

Honestly I don't know. Maybe someone from France can help?

[dupanton]

I heard there is no restrictor on that turbo. It's a fast car but mainly a very fast and crazy driver too!

[Sulland]

Any news on new R-GT cars in the pipeline, for instance the new Alpine?

[Rally Power]

Honestly I don't know. Maybe someone from France can help?
From France or from anywhere...GT+ regs are public: item 20 on 'Annexe J en cours' https://www.ffsa.org/pages/SecuriteReglementationHomologation/ReglementationTechnique/Moderne/AnnexeJEnCours.aspx


I heard there is no restrictor on that turbo. It's a fast car but mainly a very fast and crazy driver too!

Yep, the 124 GT+ is believed to have 30 to 40 hp more. Ciamin is really flying with it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NctzraWDTlE

[Rally Power]

Any news on new R-GT cars in the pipeline, for instance the new Alpine?

Sadly RGT cars are hugely penalized by FIA regs. Abarth was brave and smart enough to develop the 124 Rally for privateers, helping them to buy and run the cars through the Abarth Rally Trophy. It’s a nice effort, but RGT needs a couple more manus doing the same. Maybe Porsche and Alpine will soon realize they can easily adapt the Cayman Clubsport and the A110 GT4 to rally and get a nice profit selling them to eager rally costumers around the world. Fingers crossed!

Btw, still no more info on Rallye Magazine article (anyone reading the paper version?) but this came out on Dumas fb:

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36901577_1985034931541480_5773516088365023232_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=9fcc881b2f084a1d34ee2bdcd3a37ae7&oe=5B9DFDC7

Apparently Dumas and his team are already testing the RGT Cayman, but there's no clue on Porsche actual involvement.

[wildboar]

https://twitter.com/RomainDumas/status/1017342819948814336

We have started earlier this week the development of the Porsche Cayman #RGT. 3 good days of work @PoleMecanique. We will do more testing soon, before going to #RallyeDeutschland in August with #RDLimited as operating team. More to come.

[JUF]

Some more info from the Rallye-Magazin print version:

-Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser (head of Porsche-Motorsport) is a huge rally fan, has always looked with favor upon the success of Porsche cars in Spain, Germany etc.
-Walliser has officially delegated Mr. Hermann-Josef Steinmetz (project manager for Porsche race cars) to find a base model for a rally car
-The car is based on the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport (385 hp), the roll cage had to be changed, the suspension and trailing arms are reinforced and a sump guard was installed (that's pretty much everything which was changed)
-There will only be an asphalt version of the car
-They will most likely use the gearbox from the production car (six-gear PDK transmission)
-The weight is 1420 kg, that's due to the FIA-requirements (power-to-weight ratio has to be at least 3,4 kg / hp), they didn't want to reduce the number of horsepowers
-There were talks with the FIA to reduce the power-to-weight ratio to make the car more competitive, but until now the FIA wasn't willing to change anything
-They expect to be able to beat R5 cars under ideal conditions

So despite the car is entered by Dumas´team it seems to be an official Porsche project. At least the Cayman was built in Weissach and has the official blessing of Porsche.

[dimviii]

-They expect to be able to beat R5 cars under ideal conditions

.

big ambitions

[wildboar]

Some more info from the Rallye-Magazin print version:
-There were talks with the FIA to reduce the power-to-weight ratio to make the car more competitive, but until now the FIA wasn't willing to change anything


That would be cool. I hope that an important manufacturer like Porsche would have some influence here.

[Rally Power]

Some more info from the Rallye-Magazin print version:
-Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser (head of Porsche-Motorsport) is a huge rally fan, has always looked with favor upon the success of Porsche cars in Spain, Germany etc.
-Walliser has officially delegated Mr. Hermann-Josef Steinmetz (project manager for Porsche race cars) to find a base model for a rally car
-The car is based on the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport (385 hp), the roll cage had to be changed, the suspension and trailing arms are reinforced and a sump guard was installed (that's pretty much everything which was changed)
-There will only be an asphalt version of the car
-They will most likely use the gearbox from the production car (six-gear PDK transmission)
-The weight is 1420 kg, that's due to the FIA-requirements (power-to-weight ratio has to be at least 3,4 kg / hp), they didn't want to reduce the number of horsepowers
-There were talks with the FIA to reduce the power-to-weight ratio to make the car more competitive, but until now the FIA wasn't willing to change anything
-They expect to be able to beat R5 cars under ideal conditions
So despite the car is entered by Dumas´team it seems to be an official Porsche project. At least the Cayman was built in Weissach and has the official blessing of Porsche.

That's splendid! Thanks for the info.

[AndyRAC]

-The weight is 1420 kg, that's due to the FIA-requirements (power-to-weight ratio has to be at least 3,4 kg / hp), they didn't want to reduce the number of horsepowers
-There were talks with the FIA to reduce the power-to-weight ratio to make the car more competitive, but until now the FIA wasn't willing to change anything


1420 kg is just madness.... and no chance of being competitive - which is probably what the FiA want.....

[stefanvv]

1420 kg is just madness.... and no chance of being competitive - which is probably what the FiA want.....

Yes they don't want the GT class to be competitive with the rally class number5. Probably they would lose some manufacturers if they are. That's the admiration for Porsche here entering the "no mans land".

[Jarek Z]

Romanian driver Florin Tincescu (Abarth 124 Rally) was third overall in Rally Perla Harghitei, a round of Romanian rally championship.

Final results of RALIUL PERLA HARGHITEI 2018:
1. Simone Tempestini/Sergiu Itu (RO) Citroën DS3 R5 1:00.37,5
2. Bogdan Marisca/Sebastian Itu (RO) Ford Fiesta R5 +53,0
3. Florin Tincescu/Alina Pop (RO) Abarth 124 Rally +3.26,4
4. Sebastian Barbu/Marc Banca (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII +3.46,8
5. Valentin Porcisteanu/Dan Dobre (RO) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.25,6
6. Constantin Aur/Silviu Moraru (RO) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.39,9
7. László Kelő-Gere/Ágnes Erdélyi (H) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII +5.40,9
8. Mihai Manole/Florin Dorca (RO) Ford Fiesta R5 +6.23,5
9. Bogdan Nastase/Alexandru Popidan (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +6.24,3
10. Cristian Dolofan/Mihai Sandu (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +6.40,2

https://i2.wp.com/raliulharghitei.ro/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/EBExc_5024.jpg?fit=800%2C750&ssl=1

[Rally Power]

Yes they don't want the GT class to be competitive with the rally class number5. Probably they would lose some manufacturers if they are. That's the admiration for Porsche here entering the "no mans land".

Most likely Porsche won’t enter any championship or series; they’re just providing an alternative car to rally costumers, like Abarth did and hopefully so will Alpine.

[Jarek Z]

Last weekend the results of GT cars were unfortunately very bad. There were 3 Abarths competing in Rally di Roma Capitale, the 5th round of European Rally Championship. The best of them was French driver Raphael Astier who finished the rally down in the 35th position, over 21 minutes behind the overall winner, behind many R2 cars. What a disappointment.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/929/43508959202_334d2d1163_b.jpg

[PLuto]

Last weekend the results of GT cars were unfortunately very bad. There were 3 Abarths competing in Rally di Roma Capitale, the 5th round of European Rally Championship. The best of them was French driver Raphael Astier who finished the rally down in the 35th position, over 21 minutes behind the overall winner, behind many R2 cars. What a disappointment.

Unfortunatelly all three cars had mechanical issues. Raphael was doing great rally and before issues he was between slowest R5 cars, more than minute in front of all 2WD cars. Due to that mechanical issues he lost around 15 minutes... https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/crew-detail/?competitionId=478&crewId=41062&ssGroupId=1

[Rally Power]

Dumas testing the Cayman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atidLxhMlVs&feature=youtu.be
video by MaxiPixelRallye

[Mirek]

Finally an R-GT which looks fast. It would need a bit more power (or less weight) though. And the sound is no match for 911. Anyway I like it.

[Mirek]

One detail about the Cayman. Does it have all four wheels same size unlike 911?

[Sulland]

To get this class moving and growing, could it be an idea to allow all homologated/approved GT4 cars, and follow the European GT4 regulations found here: https://european.gt4series.com/gb_en/regulations

They use successballast in GT4, I guess that might be tougher to do in a Rallycar, or is that possible?

If possible drivers would have all these cars to choose from:


Nr.
Manufacturer
Model
Since
Expiration
Developer


RACB GT4-012
Aston Martin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin)
V8 Vantage GT4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Vantage_GT4)
01-04-2009
31-12-2018
Aston Martin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin)


RACB GT4-015
Lotus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Cars)
Evora (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Evora)
25-07-2011
31-12-2018
Lotus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Cars)


RACB GT4-019
Ginetta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_Cars)
G55 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_G55)
01-04-2014
31-12-2021
Ginetta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_Cars)


RACB GT4-021
KTM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTM)
X-Bow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTM_X-Bow)
02-12-2016
31-12-2023




RACB GT4-027
Ford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford)
Mustang GT4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_FR500#FR500GT4_(FR500C_Variant))
01-08-2017
31-12-2024




RACB GT4-028
SIN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIN_Cars)
R1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIN_R1)
01-01-2015
31-12-2022
Matech Concepts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matech_Concepts)


RACB GT4-MC
Maserati (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati)
Gran Turismo MC GT4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati_Gran_Turismo)
01-04-2016
31-12-2020




RACB GT4-030
McLaren (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_Cars)
570S (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_570S)
01-01-2017
31-12-2024




RACB GT4-031
Chevrolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet)
Camaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro_(sixth_generation))
01-03-2017
31-12-2024
Pratt & Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Miller)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series#cite_note-2)




Alpine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_(automobile))
Alpine A110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_A110_(2017))










Aston Martin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin)
Vantage N24 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Vantage_N24)










Audi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi)
TT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_TT)










Audi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi)
R8 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8)




Audi Sport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Sport)




BMW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW)
BMW M3 GT4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3#E92_M3_GT4)




BMW Motorsport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Motorsport)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series#cite_note-3)




BMW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW)
M4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M4)










BMW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW)
Z4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z4)




G&A Racing




Chevrolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet)
Corvette C6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C6)




Callaway Cars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callaway_Cars)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series#cite_note-4)




Ginetta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_Cars)
G50 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_G50)




Ginetta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_Cars)




Maserati (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati)
Maserati Trofeo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati_Coup%C3%A9)










Porsche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche)
997 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_997)




Equipe Verschuur[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series#cite_note-5)




Chevrolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet)
Camaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro_(fifth_generation))




Riley Technologies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riley_Technologies)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series#cite_note-6)




Porsche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche)
Cayman GT4 Clubsport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Cayman)










Porsche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche)
Cayman PRO4 GT4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Cayman)




Prosport Performance

[Rally Power]

Finally an R-GT which looks fast. It would need a bit more power (or less weight) though. And the sound is no match for 911. Anyway I like it.

Tuthill 911 RGT (basically same 3.8 flat six) also never sound as good as any unrestricted 911. Apparently they’re using larger wheels at the rear, like in the racing car. Biggest doubt on this gorgeous Cayman probably is the PDK gearbox; can it be as effective on a rally as it is on a track?

Another video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvEkxvR5OMY

[Rally Power]

To get this class moving and growing, could it be an idea to allow all homologated/approved GT4 cars, and follow the European GT4 regulations found here: https://european.gt4series.com/gb_en/regulations


Yep, allowing GT4 homologations (slightly modified) without the need for a complicated RGT homologation sounds great. A different ballast scale would be needed, but any model final Kg/hp ratio should get a bit bellow the uncompetitive 3,4 RGT current figure.

[Rally Power]

Finally some official news:

@PorscheRaces
The Cayman GT4 Clubsport is just a concept car for rallyes. At the German @wrc round Rallye Deutschland 🇩🇪 we will collect feedback from the rallye scene. The decision if a similar car based on a future model could be developed will be made later in the year.
https://twitter.com/PorscheRaces

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkEvJzGX4AEvtp2.jpg

So, this beauty won’t be homologated and will continue to be tested until they’re sure to make a RGT version of (most likely) the future 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport. Hopefully the decision will be positive and they’ll take next monthes to make their car even more competitive. Fingers crossed.

Btw, some info on the 718 Cayman GT4: https://www.motor1.com/news/258615/porsche-cayman-gt4-spied-naked/

[Jarek Z]

Poor result of Simone Tempestini and his Abarth in Rally Rzeszow - a round of Polish rally championship. He was only 12th overall.

Final results of 2018 Rzeszowski Rally:
1 Griazin/Federow (Škoda Fabia R5): 1:38:25.5
2 Grzyb/Browiński (Škoda Fabia R5): +1:28.9
3 Brzeziński/Kozdroń (Škoda Fabia R5): +3:31.0
4 Poloński/Sitek (Ford Fiesta R5): +3:41.8
5 Marczyk/Gospodarczyk (Škoda Fabia R5): +4:35.7
6 Chuchała/Rozwadowski (Subaru Impreza STi N15): +5:26.7
7 Gabryś/Natkaniec (Ford Fiesta R5): +6:40.8
8 Słobodzian/Dachowski (Subaru Impreza STi N15): +6:55.1
9 Byśkiniewicz/Wisławski (Hyundai i20 R5): +7:00.3
10 Kotarba/Kotarba (Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4): +8:25.2
11 Wróblewski/Spentany Peugeot 208 R2 +11:24.00
12 Tempestini/Itu Abarth 124 Rally +16:22.90

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/89/ab/16/z23772041V,Ceremonia-startu-27---Rajdu-Rzeszowskiego.jpg

[PLuto]

Poor result of Simone Tempestini and his Abarth in Rally Rzeszow - a round of Polish rally championship. He was only 12th overall.

He had puncture and problems with windscreen visibility...

[Ucci]

So, after 2nd day in Deutschland, what are the thoughts of the spectators about the new Cayman GT4?

[dimviii]

So, after 2nd day in Deutschland, what are the thoughts of the spectators about the new Cayman GT4?

same as 911.Full throttle at straights.

[Rally Power]

same as 911.Full throttle at straights.

Are you in Germany?

[dimviii]

Are you in Germany?

you havent got to be in Germany ,its very clear to see it from videos.

[Rally Power]

Come on dimviii, we already know you’re not a RGT lover. Like Ucci asked, it’d be nice to get some comments from actual spectators on how the car looks and sounds at the stages.

[Jarek Z]

Is it this car?
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/deutschland3/g/62.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/deutschland4/g/22.jpg

[Ucci]

Is it this car?
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/deutschland3/g/62.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/deutschland4/g/22.jpg
Yes

[CWJ]

Full throttle at straights.

Same as all cars ;)

speed was ok at all
gearbox was to long but they know...
sound only from the front ok
nice to see official Porsche people at stages and SP

[dimviii]

Same as all cars ;)

speed was ok at all


not

[Sulland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ivKYSS1R20

Who eas the driver of the Cayman?

[Jarek Z]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ivKYSS1R20

Who eas the driver of the Cayman?

Judging from the first photo that I posted it was Romain Dumas, with Denis Giraudet as a co-driver.

[Mirek]

On this video it doesn't look fast at all :(

[swanny]

Judging from the first photo that I posted it was Romain Dumas, with Denis Giraudet as a co-driver.

That thing sounded dirty, it was awesome :eek:

[CWJ]

Well it was a fast rollout as VIP not a competition position. They needed stage kms and the car at the finnish...

[MartijnS]

I liked it. Good looking car! Not the sound of a GT3 but fine enough for me.

[Rally Power]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ivKYSS1R20
Who eas the driver of the Cayman?

Yep, Dumas is driving it and it’s also his team (RD Limited) that is running the car, alongside Porsche Motorsport. From the video it’s fair to say that it doesn’t look as good as on the tests (like it was said, as VIP car probably he wasn’t allowed to go flat out) but Porsche aim supposedly is not to win rally’s; they’re trying to provide an alternative rally car that can be fun to drive and watch; looking at our forum friends comments, the second purpose seems already achieved!


More pics, from Rallye Magazin (full gallery: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/index.php?id=25&tx_yag_pi1%5Brm%5D%5BgalleryUid%5D=1265&tx_yag_pi1%5Brm%5D%5BalbumUid%5D=2243&tx_yag_pi1%5Baction%5D=submitFilter&tx_yag_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=ItemList&cHash=63068e35f8e0f0481e9077179452f93f)
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/49/62/Porsche-Cayman-RGT-009_496258_5b751e537.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/49/62/Porsche-Cayman-RGT-012_496270_5b751e540.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/49/62/Porsche-Cayman-RGT-006_496290_5b751e55f.jpg

[AndyRAC]

I liked it. Good looking car! Not the sound of a GT3 but fine enough for me.

Quite; though even the GT3 version doesn't sound as good as the GTE RSR.....which is ear blisteringly good.

[Sulland]

Alpine A110 GT4 has :
The base weight at 1080 kg, while the main modifications concern the engine -
1,8 turbo, maximum power climbing up to 360 hp
aerodynamics with the addition of a splitter and an imposing rear wing.

could be a very interesting contender in RGT.

Cayman RGT in comparison


Combustion engine
3800 ccm Flat-six engine, adopted from the Cayman GT4


Engine management
Continental SDI 9 – engine control module


Engine lubrication
Integrated dry sump with Mobil1 motor oil


Displacement
3,800 cm³


Output



Weight
1,300 kg



283 kW (385 hp)

[AndyRAC]

I feel it's up to the FiA to do more to promote the R-GT class; because up until now it's been a damp squib. Maybe now Porsche are showing support for a possible customer programme the FiA might get the message. And when Porsche start showing interest in something, then you take notice. Interesting that Frank-Steffen Walliser was there on Friday....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQi7ncOxVHI

[Rally Power]

I liked it. Good looking car! Not the sound of a GT3 but fine enough for me.

3.8 911 sound
without restrictor (GT3 Cup): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4RDbovpNHE
with (RGT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-J8dJwbk9o

[Mirek]

Yep, Dumas is driving it and it’s also his team (RD Limited) that is running the car, alongside Porsche Motorsport. From the video it’s fair to say that it doesn’t look as good as on the tests (like it was said, as VIP car probably he wasn’t allowed to go flat out) but Porsche aim supposedly is not to win rally’s; they’re trying to provide an alternative rally car that can be fun to drive and watch; looking at our forum friends comments, the second purpose seems already achieved!


The only but very important issue with such car is that the market for cars just for fun is extremely small. Let's be real. For far majority of rally teams buying such car is nothing but a waste of money.

[denkimi]

The only but very important issue with such car is that the market for cars just for fun is extremely small. Let's be real. For far majority of rally teams buying such car is nothing but a waste of money.
There are many drivers who only drive for fun but don't have a budget for a r5 car.

If the price is right, that means lots of horses for an acceptable price, they will sell.

[Mirek]

There are many drivers who only drive for fun but don't have a budget for a r5 car.

I keep hearing that for ages but show me any car for which this idea worked. There were plenty of attempts but never ever succeeded. There is as well plenty of cheap old used cars but nobody buys them.

[Rally Power]

There are many drivers who only drive for fun but don't have a budget for a r5 car.
If the price is right, that means lots of horses for an acceptable price, they will sell.

Yep, plus some of the wealthy rally drivers currently running R5 cars (and even WRC’s) without caring about wins or titles. And if Porsche starts a Rally Cup with good prizes, it wouldn’t be hard to also see young and talented drivers behind the wheel of a Cayman. Fingers crossed.

[denkimi]

I keep hearing that for ages but show me any car for which this idea worked. There were plenty of attempts but never ever succeeded. There is as well plenty of cheap old used cars but nobody buys them.
There is a quite popular bmw m-cup in belgium. There are also quite a few porsche's, we had 10 of them at the start of the tac rally.
And untill they decided to ban the drivers of they won a rally we also had some old wrc cars as an alternative to r5's.

If they can build them cheap, they will sell them. There is a market for powerful rwd cars.
But only is the price and running cost is different enough from an r5.

[pantealex]

Cheap and (new) Porsche don´t mix ;)

[Rally Power]

A couple of years ago, a 911 SCRS (an ex-Prodrive unit) got a mind blowing bid of $1.100.000 at the Monterey auctions; owner refused, he was asking 1.4M…

Btw, Porsche Motorsport is still selling Cayman GT4 Clubsport racing units. They’ve announced a price around €120.000 when it was released, at the end of 2015. A road legal rally version would likely cost way more.

[racerx1979]

Well they are hoping for a cheaper price point than a new R5. They will also be using a factory PDK which will be a lot cheaper to run than a proper sequential such as a Sadev.. A lot cheaper.

The GT4 Clubsport for circuit racing is $165K USD. I'm assuming the rally version will be slightly higher due to underbody protection and all the other rally essentials which are not needed for circuit racing. Say it goes to $170-180k with service intervals much better than an R5 I'm sure gentlemen racers would look into it. The only problem is it would mainly be a tarmac rally car which makes an R5 a much better choice IMO, but that's me.

[denkimi]

If they put a price around or below 120k € they will sell them. If they go higher teams will just buy a second hands r5.

[racerx1979]

Not going to happen. These will be $160-180 USD or $140+ euros.

[Rally Power]

If they put a price around or below 120k € they will sell them.

Yep, that looks impossible: Abarth is selling the 124 Rally for €140.000. It’s hard to tell how much a Cayman Clubsport RGT would cost more than the circuit version (btw, there are two of them and the most expensive MR costs over €160k) but, most likely, it will be expensive to buy, although cheap to maintain. Yet the Cayman can still be a good deal if they launch it through a well promoted and big funded Porsche rally cup.

[denkimi]

Yep, that looks impossible: Abarth is selling the 124 Rally for €140.000. It’s hard to tell how much a Cayman Clubsport RGT would cost more than the circuit version (btw, there are two of them and the most expensive MR costs over €160k) but, most likely, it will be expensive to buy, although cheap to maintain. Yet the Cayman can still be a good deal if they launch it through a well promoted and big funded Porsche rally cup.
Then they won't sell many, if any. Just like fiat.

From 130k on you start to get in the territory of used r5's that are faster.

[AndyRAC]

From 130k on you start to get in the territory of used r5's that are faster.

Then you bring in BoP to allow them to take on the R5s........then stand back and watch the fireworks from the R5 Manufacturers.....(we've seen this film before in WEC.. ;)). Obviously not going to happen.....

[Tarmop]

Cheap R5s are old or are getting old, newer, better and faster models are coming and in the end you can`t fight for a win with it, atleast in international or continental events. Add the maint. costs and not so tempting anymore...except for maybe gentlemen drivers and national championships.

[Rally Power]

Then they won't sell many, if any. Just like fiat.

More than the final price, what can make this car sell is the promotional package around it. Porsche Motorsport sells dozens of expensive racing cars every year as they organize several one make series all over the world, providing their costumers competitive and entertaining races with good media coverage and big money prizes. That’s why it makes sense to imagine they can try to do a similar job with the Cayman GTR, starting a Porsche rally cup alongside FIA RGT Cup events or others major rallys. That would be great.

[dimviii]

guys to much ink for an already dead project.
Dont bother.

[Rally Power]

guys to much ink for an already dead project.
Dont bother.

Watch out dimvii: NOT apparently took over your profile…

[dimviii]

sorry mate but its the truth

[racerx1979]

Service intervals on an R5 car are insanely frequent and very expensive. A gentlemen racer might be interested in purchasing a RGT car especially when service costs are a fraction of the R5. That is the only thing the Cayman has going for it. Factory PDK gearbox and motor with rally goodies. It sounds great on paper, but ...

[Rally Power]

sorry mate but its the truth

Too soon to say. Hope not. Fingers crossed!

[Rally Power]

Congrats to Astier/Vauclare and Milano Racing; after being first RGT in Corsica, Rome and Zlin, they’ve won 2018 FIA RGT Cup on their Abarth 124 Rally.

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40139564_2241218236122601_2003259397819596800_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=cda61a90a9f0a7a3138b80606ec4ef0d&oe=5C2F0EEC

https://pt-pt.facebook.com/pg/abarth124rally/posts/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIA_R-GT_Cup

[Rally Power]

More than luck, the 124 Rally safety devices seems to be pretty well designed and working as projected. Btw, according to the news, Monarri is ok and after medical checks was discharged from hospital.

[wildboar]

So Tempestini is really driving an Abarth 124 RGT through Rally Poland? Sounds crazy...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/45406-pzm-rajd-polski-rally-poland-2018/?s=192782&ct=599

[Rally Power]

So Tempestini is really driving an Abarth 124 RGT through Rally Poland?

Nice; it seems they’re debuting the 124 gravel kit, that Abarth has been promising for a long time.

[dupanton]

Yes, Ciamin is going to drive it on gravel in France too.

[Jarek Z]

So Tempestini is really driving an Abarth 124 RGT through Rally Poland? Sounds crazy...

Yes, he is :) He is 17th overall after the first leg and says he is very happy driving this car on gravel stages :)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1879/29902072647_cd124f7182_b.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Nice; it seems they’re debuting the 124 gravel kit, that Abarth has been promising for a long time.

Are you sure it's a debut? Andrea Modanesi has been driving Abarth in Italy for a long time. Today he was 27th in Rally Adriatico and it is a gravel event, too.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44949-rally-adriatico-2018/?s=198070

[atsiotras79]

I think it was also driven in gravel in Romanian championship in May...

[Jarek Z]

In their press release FIAT says that their Abarth 124 Rally already scored 30 category wins this year :)
http://www.abarthpress.com/press/article/the-abarth-124-rally-scores-thirty-category-wins-in-the-2018-season

[Rally Power]

Are you sure it's a debut? Andrea Modanesi has been driving Abarth in Italy for a long time. Today he was 27th in Rally Adriatico and it is a gravel event, too.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44949-rally-adriatico-2018/?s=198070

Wrong me. Modanesi apparently used the gravel kit once before, last June on San Marino Rally. Anyway, as promised 2 years ago, Abarth is making the 124 Rally more versatile and competitive, which is great for RGT. Well done!

Btw, no records on eWRC of Tempestini using the 124 in Romania (gravel or tarmac) events.

[atsiotras79]

Arad Rally end of May with Tincescu...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/47782-raliul-aradului-kia-2018/

https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/413451/

[Rally Power]

Great to know there are so many 124’s rallying nowadays; it’s a proof that RGT is becoming popular!

So, will someone find out another unfamiliar driver from a remote location who has run a 124 on gravel before or can we confirm Tincescu was the first one?

[Jarek Z]

So Tempestini and his Abarth finished Rally Poland in the 16th position. Now he also entered the 8th round of European Championship - Rally Liepaja in Latvia - also on gravel :) Good luck!

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1854/44789063932_2f3126d041_b.jpg

[Rally Power]

https://b.jcms-api.com/media/712102cb-bbf2-4843-ad08-d9466ed64691/cropthumbnail-jagftype20myrallyspecial12111807-resize-1468x979-crop-1140x814.jpg

Holly cow! Jaguar has made an RGT!
Ok, it’s just a demo F Type created to celebrate the XK 120 rally heritage, still it looks wild and it’s great to see the brand somehow associated to the sport. It’d be even greater if they put a hardtop on it, get the RGT homologation and start competing on real rallys. Go for it Jag!

Full PR: https://media.jaguar.com/news/2018/11/jaguar-f-type-rally-cars-celebrate-70-years-sports-car-heritage
Video: https://youtu.be/YsUcDmCmLMg

[Rally Power]

https://files1.porsche.com/filestore/galleryimagerwd/multimedia/none/motorsport-racingcars-982-718-c7-gt4-cs-gallery-21/zoom2/fbf16406-feeb-11e8-8373-0019999cd470;sP/porsche-motorsport-image.jpg

The new 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport (base for the possible RGT homologation) is finaly out; it’s a mild evolution of the previous model, using the same 3.8 boxer engine (now with 425hp) and 6 speed PDK gearbox; it weigths 1320kgs (20 more). Fingers crossed for seeing it on a rally!

Full PR: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-world-premiere-new-718-cayman-gt4-clubsport-16733.html
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40u4SXYHjAE

[CWJ]

R-GT version is coming, green light from Porsche

718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport

https://www.rallye-magazin.de

[Rally Power]

R-GT version is coming, green light from Porsche
718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport
https://www.rallye-magazin.de

That's fantastic! Hope other GT4 manus (Alpine ahead) will follow Porsche example!

[Jarek Z]

An interview with Luca Napolitano, Head of Fiat & Abarth. He speaks about record year for Abarth, in terms of both sales and racing successes and discusses changes in the Abarth 124:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-qa-luca-napolitano/

[Jarek Z]

Has it ever been posted here? A video showing Abarth 124 Rally on the stages of 2018 Rally Liepaja:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprJHs6M4nw

[Jarek Z]

Kris Rosenberger was driving Porsche 997 GT3 in the Rebenland Rallye, the first round of Austrian rally championship. He was 7th overall. A video showing his performance in this rally can be seen below:
https://vimeo.com/324808729

Final results of the 2019 Rebenland Rallye:
1. Hermann Neubauer/Bernhard Ettel (A) Ford Fiesta R5 1:46.05,7
2. Julian Wagner/Anne Katharina Stein (A/D) Skoda Fabia R5 +25,3
3. Günther Knobloch/Jürgen Rausch (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +2.57,0
4. Kristóf Klausz/Botond Csányi (H) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.05,3
5. Johannes Keferböck/Ilka Minor (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +6.05,0
6. Hermann Gassner/Karin Thannhäuser (D) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X R4 +8.12,1
7. Kris Rosenberger/Christina Ettel-Kaiser (A) Porsche 997 GT3 +9.04,2
8. Hermann Gassner Jr/Ursula Mayrhofer (D/A) Toyota GT86 CS-R3 +10.09,7
9. Jan Černý/Petr Černohorský (CZ) Skoda Fabia R5 +11.46,1
10. Robert Zitta/Peter Stemp (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +14.09,7

[Sulland]

Still a bit amazed that the Alpine factory or a tuner has not made a RGT car yet.

The name has some heritage to defend!

[Mirek]

Still a bit amazed that the Alpine factory or a tuner has not made a RGT car yet.

The name has some heritage to defend!

Defend against what? There is nothing to be won in RGT for GT brands! Their is a shame if they loose with cheap brands like Škoda or Ford. I am amazed that some people still don't get why GT brands aren't eager about being involved in rallying.

[stefanvv]

Their is a shame if they loose with cheap brands like Škoda or Ford.

That's ridiculous statement. Rolls Royce/Bentley/Bugatti also are not rally cars, but rich people pay loads of money to buy them. Some people enjoy the variety GT class brings in rally. Such statements are useless.

[Mirek]

That's ridiculous statement. Rolls Royce/Bentley/Bugatti also are not rally cars, but rich people pay loads of money to buy them.

When did those race against Škoda or VW and loose?

Come, on. How can you sale such a result like shown above being a Porsche? Why should you invest any money for such an advertisement?

These brands need to spend money fighting their peers, i.e. Ferrari, Lamborgini, Aston Martin etc. not shopping bags for ordinary people.

[stefanvv]

When did those race against Škoda or VW and loose?

Come, on. How can you sale such a result like shown above being a Porsche? Why should you invest any money for such an advertisement?

These brands need to spend money fighting their peers, i.e. Ferrari, Lamborgini, Aston Martin etc. not shopping bags for ordinary people.

Porsche has some (successful) heritage in rallying, even in the toughest one - Safari, the others don't. Call it nostalgia if You wish, people still enjoy seeing this brand on the stages, moreover it has something different to offer from the shopping trolleys.

[pantealex]

Brands get nothing, yes.

But me as spectator, I wan´t to see more different modern rally cars.

[Jarek Z]

Brands get nothing, yes.

But me as spectator, I wan´t to see more different modern rally cars.

Exactly. Why does rallying have to be boring? All R5 cars look nearly the same, also the latest group N Mitsubishis and Subarus look nearly identical from the distance. Both Porsche and Abarth add some variety to this sport.

[Sulland]

Defend against what? There is nothing to be won in RGT for GT brands! Their is a shame if they loose with cheap brands like Škoda or Ford. I am amazed that some people still don't get why GT brands aren't eager about being involved in rallying.

This is how they buildt their name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyPb_24ThUQ

Not everyone need to win overall, for some it is enough to win in class.

[Franky]

Not everyone need to win overall, for some it is enough to win in class.

Times change

[tommeke_B]

This is how they buildt their name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyPb_24ThUQ

Not everyone need to win overall, for some it is enough to win in class.

Well, like your video shows, Alpine built their name by winning overall, and becoming world champion. Not by winning a class where they're the only competitors, 15 minutes behind the overall leaders... ;)

[stefanvv]

Different technologies in time. If FIA makes RGT rules more appealing, there would be more willing to join.

[Rally Power]

Well, like your video shows, Alpine built their name by winning overall, and becoming world champion. Not by winning a class where they're the only competitors, 15 minutes behind the overall leaders... ;)

For a long time Skoda has not been runing for WRC overall wins and still they seem quite pleased to continue involved on a WRC secondary category.

Besides privateers teams efforts to keep GT’s in rally, Abarth is also doing a nice work building the 124’s and Porsche is going to provide a huge contribution with the 718 RGT homologation. With a proper regulation maybe some others would also join, but those already in deserves to be praised for adding a greater diversity to rally. Thanks to all of them!

[tommeke_B]

When you talk about Skoda, you must not forget to mention that their motorsport department itself is profitable, thanks to the many privateers running a Skoda. So for Skoda it's not really an investment. If you compare for example Hyundai and Citroën, where the customer department isn't as successful, and the project actually costs money, we see how long the involvement lasted...

[Mirek]

This is how they buildt their name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyPb_24ThUQ

Not everyone need to win overall, for some it is enough to win in class.

You just proved my point. They were involved when they were winning overall.


For a long time Skoda has not been runing for WRC overall wins and still they seem quite pleased to continue involved on a WRC secondary category.

You clearly missed the point.

1) Škoda has been directly fighting their market peers.
2) Škoda has been fighting for overall victories in IRC, ERC, national championships, MERC, CODASUR, APRC. It only has not been fighting for overall victories on WRC events but nevertheless it took world championship titles in WRC2 which has a reasonable marketing value.

None of this applies for any GT manufacturer.


Porsche has some (successful) heritage in rallying, even in the toughest one - Safari, the others don't. Call it nostalgia if You wish, people still enjoy seeing this brand on the stages, moreover it has something different to offer from the shopping trolleys.

Well, the talk was about the brand involvement. Imagine to come to the managing board of Porsche and say that you want a budget to make a project which will bring them nothing but it will be fun. Motorsport is a business activity not a reenactment of historical events. Even those forty years a go it was.


Brands get nothing, yes.

But me as spectator, I wan´t to see more different modern rally cars.

Sure but it's the brands who need to get something to make it worth their money and there is nothing rallying can currently offer to premium brands.

[Rally Power]

You clearly missed the point.

Nope. I’ve responded to a direct comment mentioning RGT as a lower class with no interest to manus and use Skoda example once they got involved in rally, including in the WRC, throught lower classes, long before producing state of the art rally cars; actually, just like most manus historically did, including Alpine.

I imagine this will go into an endless (and possibily boring) ping-pong debate for which I won’t have much time today, so I’ll try to be clear giving my view on RGT.

GT brands didn’t quit rallysport for elitist reasons; they were forced to leave after Gr.B ban, once their cars didn’t cope with Gr.A (or WRC, S2000, R5) rules. Besides, WRC manus weren’t later eager, probably having the 2L Kit-car example in mind, to allow part time GT entries in the series.

Nevertheless, some ASN’s let private drivers and teams to run low tuned GT cars in national series, for the joy of local fans. Surprisingly, or not, this few GT outings become notorious and the videos of modern 911’s rallying got viral, raising the interest of more drivers and fans in other countries. At same point the low tuned national GT cars turned into competitive rally machines and start wining overall national rallys and even championships, which probably wasn’t very appreciated by WRC or S2000 brands.

Soon the FIA started to follow the matter and restrictors were imposed to the private GT cars, making them clearly less competitive. At the same time, the FIA launch RGT class for international use, but its limiting rules immediately make clear it wouldn’t allow GT brands to make especially competitive rally cars.

Anyway, thanks to the passion of private drivers and teams and even a few brands, GT’s are still runing in special stages and making rally fans happy, at least until the FIA decides to ban them again.

[stefanvv]

Well, the talk was about the brand involvement. Imagine to come to the managing board of Porsche and say that you want a budget to make a project which will bring them nothing but it will be fun. Motorsport is a business activity not a reenactment of historical events. Even those forty years a go it was.

Surely it'll bring them some popularity among those who go to watch the rallies. Or You think they're dumb enough not to realize there are class differences? It's the same handicap with the GT Am class in Le Mans races. They have no chance even competing with the GT Pro class, not to mention the LMP classes.

[Mirek]

Surely it'll bring them some popularity among those who go to watch the rallies. Or You think they're dumb enough not to realize there are class differences?

Oh come, on. You can not be serious thinking that this is worth investment. The marketing value of such existence on stages is similar to the marketing value of the car being parked on the street. It's there and it's nice. But motorsport is about sport success and there is no success to be achieved.

Seriously - the people running the companies are not dumb. They know what brings them something and they know why they have not been involved for decades.

[Mirek]

Nope. I’ve responded to a direct comment mentioning RGT as a lower class with no interest to manus and use Skoda example once they got involved in rally, including in the WRC, throught lower classes, long before producing state of the art rally cars; actually, just like most manus historically did, including Alpine.

The problem with your theory is that you use completely incomparable cases. Škoda was a cheap brand from the Eastern block which actually was involved on the top level of the sport in its country and in the Eastern block. It competed in the west with what it had and the prime reason why it was successful was that it was involved on the works level in the field where mainly privateers competed against it. But this was pure necessity because the company was working in the pre-planned-economy of the Eastern block and not allowed to produce large engines.

All of that makes its story completely irrelevant to premium brands such as Porsche or Ferrari.


GT brands didn’t quit rallysport for elitist reasons; they were forced to leave after Gr.B ban, once their cars didn’t cope with Gr.A (or WRC, S2000, R5) rules. Besides, WRC manus weren’t later eager, probably having the 2L Kit-car example in mind, to allow part time GT entries in the series.

As You said yourself - the environment for GT brand success in rallying is gone. Simple as that.


Nevertheless, some ASN’s let private drivers and teams to run low tuned GT cars in national series, for the joy of local fans. Surprisingly, or not, this few GT outings become notorious and the videos of modern 911’s rallying got viral, raising the interest of more drivers and fans in other countries. At same point the low tuned national GT cars turned into competitive rally machines and start wining overall national rallys and even championships, which probably wasn’t very appreciated by WRC or S2000 brands.

As far as I know GT cars managed to win exactly two important national championships - Spanish asphalt one and German (with a competition level nowhere near Spain). Out of hundreds of championship. That small success was achieved thanks to basically no limitation in the rules. That means that in this case the GTs were placed into the privileged role against the others - and that's exactly what I talked about all the time. This is a place where premium brands belong. However even this can work only in very specific environment which is best shown by lack of success of similar cars anywhere else.


Soon the FIA started to follow the matter and restrictors were imposed to the private GT cars, making them clearly less competitive. At the same time, the FIA launch RGT class for international use, but its limiting rules immediately make clear it wouldn’t allow GT brands to make especially competitive rally cars.

True and again that's what the talk is about all the time. GT can work only if placed in privileged position against the competitors.


Anyway, thanks to the passion of private drivers and teams and even a few brands, GT’s are still runing in special stages and making rally fans happy, at least until the FIA decides to ban them again.

Yes and how is that relevant to the discussion about brand involvement?

[denkimi]

Well, the talk was about the brand involvement. Imagine to come to the managing board of Porsche and say that you want a budget to make a project which will bring them nothing but it will be fun. Motorsport is a business activity not a reenactment of historical events. Even those forty years a go it was.
If they can build a good reasonable priced car, they could sell al lot of them. Thus making them profitable. Just like you mentioned skoda does. Just like basically every rallycar manufacturer does, with the exception of the wrc cars.

[Mirek]

If they can build a good reasonable priced car, they could sell al lot of them. Thus making them profitable. Just like you mentioned skoda does. Just like basically every rallycar manufacturer does, with the exception of the wrc cars.

Do You actually believe you can sell enough of GT rally cars to make profit of it? Good luck then.

[Tarmop]

The reason, why R5 or R2 is so popular (or not so popular, compared to gr. N) is that it is an allrounder. Be it ERC, WRC, MERC, APRC or some nationals, on snow, on tarmac, on gravel...it`s created for all of those. If you want to have fun in a fast RWD rallycar, you build yourself a M3 for less...many other suitable donors in addition ofc.

[Ucci]

Do You actually believe you can sell enough of GT rally cars to make profit of it? Good luck then.
And what is with the new Cayman GT4 project? Porsche will build this car for rally customers, won't they?

[Mirek]

They admit openly that they need to sell at least 100 of them. We'll see if they succeed or not. Anyway since it's a production car it won't cost them a fortune if they fail so not that big risk for them.

[the sniper]

Do You actually believe you can sell enough of GT rally cars to make profit of it? Good luck then.

Entirely depends on their level of commitment. If they're just intended to compete for 'RGT' honours in the overall classification, then I can't see that they'd sell that many. If they put some money into promoting a 'Cayman Cup' structure, similar to the circuit Carrera Cup model, taking away the focus from the overall classification, at the right price with a well made car, maybe it's possible. Didn't Porsche say they'd be looking to sell around 100 to make the project feasible? It's a big ask, but I can imagine national 'Cayman Cup''s within the main national Championships in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and maybe Germany being able to get ten entrants each. If that is possible you've already sold 50% of your target. Once you take into account other, most probably much weaker, Cayman Cup's in other countries, random Gentlemen driver sales and collectors, replacement cars over time, maybe you can sell another 50. That's without taking into account the possibility of an international Cayman 'Supercup'.

As for not fighting for overall honours being a problem, I can see the logic of not wanting to be beaten by a bunch of Skoda's, but in endurance racing Porsches often haven't been fighting for overall honours. Separately the Supercup and Carrera Cups are just sideshows to the main event, be it F1, DTM or BTCC ect... GT4, in which the Cayman competes, is a good few rungs down the sports car ladder.

[denkimi]

Do You actually believe you can sell enough of GT rally cars to make profit of it? Good luck then.
Yes. Seeing how many already exist, without any factory input or help, i would say there's a big open market. That is of course if the price is right.

They could even do like renault does, and use the same car for both rally and circuit. With only small changes between them.
What they should be aiming in that case is not being the best car, but being the second best car behind the r5's, but at a cheaper price.

[dimviii]

why all of you bother, for something that is already dead?

[CWJ]

They admit openly that they need to sell at least 100 of them. We'll see if they succeed or not. Anyway since it's a production car it won't cost them a fortune if they fail so not that big risk for them.

I think they can do it quite sure. Its a worldwide market and also a good base for other motorsports and garages ;)

[Tarmop]

Yes. Seeing how many already exist, without any factory input or help, i would say there's a big open market. That is of course if the price is right.

They could even do like renault does, and use the same car for both rally and circuit. With only small changes between them.
What they should be aiming in that case is not being the best car, but being the second best car behind the r5's, but at a cheaper price.

Lets stop dreaming, that a fast and competitive factory-made car or kit is cheap. Never. They are trying to make that popular "cheaper" class with R4, not much success at the moment. How many R2 and R5 cars you see competing on gravel, on tarmac or on both surfaces? I`d say 40% only on gravel, another 40 mixed and 20 only on tarmac. R2s on gravel probably well over 50% Could be wrong though, but at first glance over eWrc showed something similar. Is GT class used on gravel? How similar is it to championship top classes?

[dimviii]

I think they can do it quite sure. Its a worldwide market and also a good base for other motorsports and garages ;)
impossible.

[Jarek Z]

why all of you bother, for something that is already dead?

Because of the love for rallying and beautiful sports cars, that we share. Is it too difficult to understand?

https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/default/files/styles/two_third_slider/public/cars_images/feed_286146/3111433802_1_2.jpg?itok=4U8HKjcc

[dimviii]

Because of the love for rallying and beautiful sports cars, that we share. Is it too difficult to understand?


yes i cant understand the ''love of rallying'' with cars, that are not proper for rallying.

[stefanvv]

yes i cant understand the ''love of rallying'' with cars, that are not proper for rallying.

Who are You to decide which is proper? Some people enjoy them, including me, enough rally for me, other is personal taste.

[dimviii]

Who are You to decide which is proper? Some people enjoy them, including me, enough rally for me, other is personal taste.

i am not ''deciding'',the market and the reality that plenty of you ignore decides.
i just try to show the reasons why something like that is dead.

[AndyRAC]

As for not fighting for overall honours being a problem, I can see the logic of not wanting to be beaten by a bunch of Skoda's, but in endurance racing Porsches often haven't been fighting for overall honours. Separately the Supercup and Carrera Cups are just sideshows to the main event, be it F1, DTM or BTCC ect... GT4, in which the Cayman competes, is a good few rungs down the sports car ladder.

Sportscars is a bit more enlightened; class victories matter - and get decent coverage which makes it worthwhile. The 'lesser' classes are just as important as the headline Prototype class. Compare with the pretty awful coverage WRC2 gets; and even if there was a decent RGT class entry, they wouldn't get any coverage. That is something that needs to improve before anybody starts thinking about getting more RGT entries.

[Rally Power]

i am not ''deciding'',the market and the reality that plenty of you ignore decides.
i just try to show the reasons why something like that is dead.

How can it be dead if Porsche has confirmed the 718 RGT car development? https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/motorsports/porsche-rallye-concept-study-cayman-gt4-clubsport-demo-run-snow-ice-richard-lietz-16856.html

Porsche is not just another brand; it’s a reference in motorsport, with a rich rally heritage. Untill now most of the GT’s used in rally were privately developed cars, with little influence in the rally market, but from the moment Porsche gets involved many things can happen. It’s not hard to imagine they can use their vast RP resources to promote their rally activity, helping to boost RGT.

Besides, they don’t need, as Abarth with the 124 Rally, to make a rally car from scratch; they’ll use the affordable Cayman GT4 Clubsport racing car https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-world-premiere-new-718-cayman-gt4-clubsport-16733.html, adapting it to rally, mostly by reinforcing the chassis and changing suspensions and brakes. That way they’ll be able to provide a RGT car not expensive to buy and maintain, especially if they decide, as expected, to involve drivers and teams into national and international monotype rally cups.

Btw, that is the recipe Alpine could easily follow, once they’ve already launch an A110 racing cup and even a GT4 version. Fingers crossed!

[stefanvv]

i am not ''deciding'',the market and the reality that plenty of you ignore decides.
i just try to show the reasons why something like that is dead.

RGT story was still born with the pioneer Lotus Exide project. I agree with that. But now has appeared some brands with rich history in rallying, and made it ALIVE. Suppressing their (and private projects) from the rally community is not in favor for anyone. Group B is also dead in the water, but the youtube videos from that age will keep rolling in the next decades, do You know why?

[dimviii]

Group B is also dead in the water, but the youtube videos from that age will keep rolling in the next decades, do You know why?
because they were proper rally cars.

[dimviii]

How can it be dead if Porsche has confirmed the 718 RGT car development?

because good drivers will not drive/hire/buy it.And will not drive it ,regardless of money cost,because they cant win with this car.

[stefanvv]

because they were proper rally cars.

Nope, they weren't. They were terrible on hairpins, terrible.

[Tarmop]

They were the top at that time and their legacy lives on because of that. Similar can`t be said about GT cars.

[AnttiL]

Nope, they weren't. They were terrible on hairpins, terrible.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous statement.

[stefanvv]

Sorry but this is a ridiculous statement.

Yeah? "fight fire with fire".

[stefanvv]

They were the top at that time and their legacy lives on because of that. Similar can`t be said about GT cars.

Ah, what is the philosophy of Gr.B You find in the modern rally cars?

[Mirek]

Ah, what is the philosophy of Gr.B You find in the modern rally cars?

Being the fastest.

Simple as that because this is what it's all about.

[stefanvv]

Being the fastest.

Simple as that because this is what it's all about.

This is pointless discussion, but anyway, so the current WRC cars can't be faster with let's say - unrestricted engine?!?

[AnttiL]

It's about being the fastest rally class of the existing classes, not the fastest possible car imaginable. Even group B had some limitations.

I would also add to the philosophy that on the outside you have the recognizable family car, on the inside a purpose-built rally car (at least in the case of 205 T16 and Delta S4, maybe not so with 037 and Sport Quattro)

[Mirek]

This is pointless discussion, but anyway, so the current WRC cars can't be faster with let's say - unrestricted engine?!?

Sorry but this is like talking to a wall.

Current WRC cars are the fastest what can be built within the existing environment in time (the rules are part of that). The Gr.B was the very same thing 35 years a go.

[dimviii]

Sorry but this is like talking to a wall.

.

you couldnt describe it better.

[Gregor-y]

It's about being the fastest rally class of the existing classes, not the fastest possible car imaginable. Even group B had some limitations.

I would also add to the philosophy that on the outside you have the recognizable family car, on the inside a purpose-built rally car (at least in the case of 205 T16 and Delta S4, maybe not so with 037 and Sport Quattro)

That explains why I liked Group A. Leave the bleeding edge on the circuit and go with the battered edge just above production. I grew up cheering for Hondas because we had two in the driveway and they were great cars, not because Mansell, Prost and Senna were great drivers.

[stefanvv]

the rules are part of that

Exactly, Current rules don't allow GT class to produce faster cars. End of discussion from me.

[Mirek]

Exactly, Current rules don't allow GT class to produce faster cars. End of discussion from me.

... and again you didn't understand a thing. Oh, well...

You don't need to answer, just think about what rules you need to make the GTs win Ouninpohja. Maybe you'll finally realize that it's not the rules what makes GTs wrong tool for that.

[stefanvv]

I still don't understand some of you each time there is an activity on this thread to jump in a whine how bad GT class is for rally. They aren't the best rally cars you can get, SO WHAT? I'll become R1/R3 class fan or something? R1/R3 are good for rally, no?

[Mirek]

It's you who ignore how the discussion started and who jumped in with ridiculous arguments against a completely relevant topic "why shall any GT brand become involved in rallying".


Still a bit amazed that the Alpine factory or a tuner has not made a RGT car yet.

The name has some heritage to defend!

The point is that there is no rational reason to do that. And that has nothing to do with your passion or whomever. The reality is not powered by nostalgia or dreams but by success and money. It doesn't help anything to live in some parallel world.

[stefanvv]

It's you who ignore how the discussion started and who jumped in with ridiculous arguments against a completely relevant topic "why shall any GT brand become involved in rallying"

Oh, apologies, I must have missed that. But why there is ongoing discussion then? Some people might consider it as trolling.

[dimviii]

Exactly, Current rules don't allow GT class to produce faster cars. End of discussion from me.

this must be the most retarded post i ever read here.

[stefanvv]

How many beers?

[Ucci]

I think they can do it quite sure. Its a worldwide market and also a good base for other motorsports and garages ;)
I think Porsche's marketing strategists are a bit more smart than this forum, so that they know for 101% sure that there is potential to sell 100x Caymans GT4 RGT. They have never missed in the past....

[Rally Power]

Honestly, it’s hard to understand all this fuss about RGT being able to get more manus. Will it hurt the sport to have Porsche back? Is it better to want Porsche, or any other potencially interested GT brand, out of Rally?

It’s true that Rally is living a positive era but it’s also true that the number of manus currently involved in the sport is quite limited; finding ways, like RGT or R4, to help bringing more manus to Rally should be seen as a positive contribution to the sport, not as a menace or a waste.

Rally is mainly about passion and if a bunch of rally passioned people inside Abarth or Porsche (or hopefully Alpine) manage to convince their bosses to get a RGT program we all should be grateful and praise their efforts, even knowing their cars will barely win a rally overall.

[stefanvv]

The point is that there is no rational reason to do that. And that has nothing to do with your passion or whomever. The reality is not powered by nostalgia or dreams but by success and money. It doesn't help anything to live in some parallel world.

What\s yOUR personal (and dIMVIII) problem Porsche, Abarth, etc. be in the rallysport, I mean really, what's yOURS problem? Skoda and Ford were in a big shithole 20-25 years ago even dedicated to the rally sport and having all the technology available. I don't see Porsche ever has been going in that direction. How retarded I am now? Surely I feel very low on intelligence level.,,

[cali]

Nobody's against new manufacturers but this RGT class is not going to revolutionise rallying. It will be a niche class at it's best. The past has proved it already. I don't mind seeing couple of good sounding Porsche's here and there but a) they will never fight for the top places in general classification thus b) they will attract very few drivers with any ambition to choose this class c) suitable only on tarmac championship rallyes and even then one must have really favourable conditions (dry weather, smooth wide roads with less bends etc). Sounds quite niche to me and a class for gentleman drivers in countries with good wide asphalt roads

[Rally Power]

Nobody's against new manufacturers but this RGT class is not going to revolutionise rallying. It will be a niche class at it's best. The past has proved it already. I don't mind seeing couple of good sounding Porsche's here and there but a) they will never fight for the top places in general classification thus b) they will attract very few drivers with any ambition to choose this class c) suitable only on tarmac championship rallyes and even then one must have really favourable conditions (dry weather, smooth wide roads with less bends etc). Sounds quite niche to me and a class for gentleman drivers in countries with good wide asphalt roads

Actually I also don’t see RGT as a revolution; to me RGT (like R4) is a complement to the existing rally classes and a way to bring more manus to the sport, manus that otherwise would be out from Rally. Also agree that RGT has now a limited range and is mostly a niche category; however it can still be an enjoyable alternative for privateers and an extra show for the fans. I only can’t agree with your lack of enthusiasm on RGT future, as I'm hoping that Porsche entry will help to revamp the category. Fingers crossed!

[pantealex]

GT4 is far more than rally car.
99,5% of all GT4 cars are track-cars, that´s how Porsche can actually sell 100.

[denkimi]

Nobody's against new manufacturers but this RGT class is not going to revolutionise rallying. It will be a niche class at it's best. The past has proved it already. I don't mind seeing couple of good sounding Porsche's here and there but a) they will never fight for the top places in general classification thus b) they will attract very few drivers with any ambition to choose this class c) suitable only on tarmac championship rallyes and even then one must have really favourable conditions (dry weather, smooth wide roads with less bends etc). Sounds quite niche to me and a class for gentleman drivers in countries with good wide asphalt roads
If you are a driver without big ambitions because you are too old or just not good enough, willing to drive the best car possible, but an r5 car is just a bit too expensive, what car would you drive?

They are indeed for gentleman drivers. But there are lots of those. In some rally here in belgium we have had up to 9 or 10 porsches, all private projects.

[cali]

If you are a driver without big ambitions because you are too old or just not good enough, willing to drive the best car possible, but an r5 car is just a bit too expensive, what car would you drive?

They are indeed for gentleman drivers. But there are lots of those. In some rally here in belgium we have had up to 9 or 10 porsches, all private projects.Up where I live they would be useless because of the roads we have. But I agree with you if the price is right. And the footage from asphalt events in fast sections is quite nice.

[Ucci]

If you are a driver without big ambitions because you are too old or just not good enough, willing to drive the best car possible, but an r5 car is just a bit too expensive, what car would you drive?

They are indeed for gentleman drivers. But there are lots of those. In some rally here in belgium we have had up to 9 or 10 porsches, all private projects.

One riddle: around which car was the biggest crowd in the service zone, which car was definetely most photographed or in the stages or on the arivalls/exsits from control points (speaking for the rally Rebenland previous weekend)? Porsche 911 997 GT3 from Kris Rosenberger. And he was far from the battle for the victory, he is even not best RWD driver in this part of EU.....but Porsche is attractive, if you admit or not....

[tommeke_B]

Nicolas Ciamin finished 5th overall in Rallye Lyon-Charbonnières. After 207km SS he was only 1m20s behind the winner (Bonato - C3 R5) and in front of many R5 and few WRC cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1jjcrsRb6Q&t=73s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBflewwDbQE&t=170s ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBflewwDbQE&t=242s

[CWJ]

Strong result for Ciamin but what is the specification of that car? Should be different to R-GT?

[tommeke_B]

It certainly is less restricted than the R-GT version. According to Milano Racing the GT+ version (which Ciamin was driving) has 340hp, quite a lot for only 1050kg. More info: https://www.milano-racing.com/vehicules-modernes

[Andre Oliveira]

“Alpine announces its return to rally with a specific version of the A110, based on the A110 Cup, in partnership with Signatech.
Intended primarily for asphalt rallies, the Alpine A110 “Rally” will be presented in September.”

[Rally Power]

“Alpine announces its return to rally with a specific version of the A110, based on the A110 Cup, in partnership with Signatech.
Intended primarily for asphalt rallies, the Alpine A110 “Rally” will be presented in September.”

Fantastic news! Full PR:

THE BIG RETURN TO RALLYING

World Champion in 1973, Alpine wrote some of the finest pages in its history in rally and the least that can be said is that its return to the special stages has been highly anticipated by many competitors and observers!

Signatech has been entrusted with the design, development and marketing of a rally version of the Alpine A110 from an overall framework defined by Alpine aimed at preserving the strengths and spirit of the production car. As for the GT4 and Cup, Philippe Sinault’s structure will work in close collaboration with the Alpine teams.

Based on the A110 Cup, this two-wheel drive version will produce nearly 300 horsepower. It is intended primarily for asphalt rallies and drivers looking for a fast, fun and easy to drive product. Its homologation and which category it will compete in is currently under discussion with the FFSA and the FIA. The technical specifications and price will be announced in September.

Available in the second half of 2019, the first examples of the Alpine A110 “Rally” will be delivered in two stages by the end of the year, first in France, then in Europe.

Link: https://www.alpinecars.com/en/press/...e-competition/

[wildboar]

Its homologation and which category it will compete in is currently under discussion with the FFSA and the FIA.


So it is not clear, if it is an R-GT car or something else?

[Rally Power]

So it is not clear, if it is an R-GT car or something else?

GT rally rules are sligtlhy different in France; probably they’ll make a RGT for foreign costumers and a GT+ for local drivers.

[Sulland]

Link to alpine rallynews seems dead.

[Rally Power]

Try this one: https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/alpine/media/pressreleases/21225918/alpine-accelere-son-programme-en-competition

[Jarek Z]

Hey! Some beautiful Abarths are competing in the 3rd round of European Rally Championship in Latvia this weekend!

Reinis Nitišs:

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60532571_2315489358669202_7713246292742242304_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo1-1.fna&oh=b78fd3a2aeab92415b2b60706a19b20d&oe=5D682752

[Jarek Z]

Andrea Nucita:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/static.fiaerc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/PHOTO-2019-05-24-16-37-081.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Dariusz Polonski:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/static.fiaerc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/dc413b2c6df088d59557e0926ff2e5e9-1200x800.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Maybe someone would like to see a video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgNBxTmJuqo&feature=youtu.be

[Alpine-110]

Fantastic news! Full PR:

THE BIG RETURN TO RALLYING

World Champion in 1973, Alpine wrote some of the finest pages in its history in rally and the least that can be said is that its return to the special stages has been highly anticipated by many competitors and observers!

Signatech has been entrusted with the design, development and marketing of a rally version of the Alpine A110 from an overall framework defined by Alpine aimed at preserving the strengths and spirit of the production car. As for the GT4 and Cup, Philippe Sinault’s structure will work in close collaboration with the Alpine teams.

Based on the A110 Cup, this two-wheel drive version will produce nearly 300 horsepower. It is intended primarily for asphalt rallies and drivers looking for a fast, fun and easy to drive product. Its homologation and which category it will compete in is currently under discussion with the FFSA and the FIA. The technical specifications and price will be announced in September.

Available in the second half of 2019, the first examples of the Alpine A110 “Rally” will be delivered in two stages by the end of the year, first in France, then in Europe.

Link: https://www.alpinecars.com/en/press/...e-competition/

Yezz, about time!

[Jarek Z]

Porsche has confirmed the 718 RGT car development https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/motorsports/porsche-rallye-concept-study-cayman-gt4-clubsport-demo-run-snow-ice-richard-lietz-16856.html

The project of Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is stopped:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/motorsport/porsche-cayman-gt4-clubsport-rallye-studie/

[Mirek]

As expected...

[Ricardo Filipe Matos]

Lambo Huracan Supertrofeo in Constalica Rallye Vouzela.
http://sportmotores.com/projectos/sportmotores/img/fotos/48264.jpg
http://m.sportmotores.com/sportmotores2003/do?com=DS;2586748798;101;+PAGE(1002)++K-NOTICIA(55235);

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/julienpixelrallye/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDosKuAWwAYGDaV?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDosKuBX4AE0iLi?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDosKt7X4Ac2wG7?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

Some of the first tests of the Alpine Rally

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR3Z81EJR0FBL822HFvJdM6Sp2MF3RbMx_l ICEhDTAda15dlBkXy-oJ8JOk&v=R_G5QqyoafI

[dimviii]

seems veeeery fast! faster than 911

[Mirek]

Impressive for the first testing indeed. You can clearly see how light the car is. Also thanks to the mid-engine design it's very nimble.

[electroliquid]

In Lithuania there is one Porsche Cayman build for gravel rally: https://www.facebook.com/rallyelektrenai/photos/a.2353078841628732/2353080951628521/?type=3&theater

[Ucci]

seems veeeery fast! faster than 911

I hope you you are kidding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YEG9S3kreM

[dimviii]

no i am not kidding.

[Mirek]

I hope you you are kidding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YEG9S3kreM

That's not R-GT on the video. This car is much more powerful and much lighter than R-GT rules allow.

Anyway that Alpine is sure faster in cornering speed. Of course not on straight but as I said you shall compare with R-GT cars not with this one.

[Ucci]

That's not R-GT on the video. This car is much more powerful and much lighter than R-GT rules allow.

Anyway that Alpine is sure faster in cornering speed. Of course not on straight but as I said you shall compare with R-GT cars not with this one.
Well, dimvii compared Alpina with P911....

[Mirek]

Come on, this is ridiculous. The discussion is about Alpine R-GT.

[dimviii]

Well, dimvii compared Alpina with P911....

no i didnt spoke about road cars,but about R GT cars

[Rally Power]

The project of Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is stopped:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/motorsport/porsche-cayman-gt4-clubsport-rallye-studie/

That's a shame. Hope Alpine's bold rally entry will be a success, helping to boost RGT and making Porsche to get in later. Fingers crossed!

[Sulland]

In the coming weeks, the #AlpineA110Rally will be available at the reservation from 150 000 € (without VAT) for a delivery early 2020, the scheduled date of its competition debut.

It might be the 50 000 difference, if the Cayman was to be sold for 200 000€, that made Porsche stop or wait with
the RGT project.

The A110 will be shown at this weekends Mont Blanc rally.

[Mirek]

It will be hard to sell it in any meaningful numbers. You can buy used Fiesta R5 for 150 thousand. Some DS3 or 208 R5 are being offered for prices around 100 thousand Euro and despite that nobody buys them...

[Sulland]

More news and agels
https://jalopnik.com/the-alpine-a110-is-a-rally-car-once-more-1837907553

https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/alpine/media/pressreleases/21231332/lalpine-a110-rally-prete-a-entrer-en-scene

[Rally Power]

Delecour testing the Alpine. Video by video2rallye83: https://youtu.be/jFd2ItybZ7U

[Sulland]

Looks fast with Delecour behind the wheel. Would be perfect with him in one of these in MC 20!!

Would also love to see Petter testing this one on gravel or snow! Petter lacks an Alpine in his collection!

[Rally Power]

Ciamin turn to test the Alpine. Nice pace! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Hd9IkMT1U

[dimviii]

its very fast!

[Sulland]

One team comes with Alpine in 2020:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chazeltechnologiecourse.com%2Fn ews%2FAlpine_RGT&sandbox=1

[Rally Power]

One team comes with Alpine in 2020:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chazeltechnologiecourse.com%2Fn ews%2FAlpine_RGT&sandbox=1

Another one! FJ Team is planning to enter the French series and FIA RGT Cup with the new Alpine. They’ve also announced a partnership with Signatech to run, rent and sale A110 RGT cars. Full info here: https://www.teamfj.com/alpine-a110-rally/?lang=en

[NickRally]

Another one! FJ Team is planning to enter the French series and FIA RGT Cup with the new Alpine. They’ve also announced a partnership with Signatech to run, rent and sale A110 RGT cars. Full info here: https://www.teamfj.com/alpine-a110-rally/?lang=en

Good to see more teams joining in. Regarding the team above, if I am not mistaken on the identity, I worked with them on their Racecar project 11 years ago doing a lot of the design work on the chassis.

[wildboar]

Does anyone know if the Alpine is ready for Monte Carlo?

[Rally Power]

Good to see more teams joining in. Regarding the team above, if I am not mistaken on the identity, I worked with them on their Racecar project 11 years ago doing a lot of the design work on the chassis.

Great to hear! What car was it, their Euro Nascar protos?



Does anyone know if the Alpine is ready for Monte Carlo?

Hard to tell; they’ve anouced the car would be ready on early 2020 but for now only Delecour outing in Touquet Rally (mid March) seems to be confirmed.

[NickRally]

[QUOTE=Rally Power;1237185]Great to hear! What car was it, their Euro Nascar protos?

Yes, correct, the Euro Nascar, which was one of the better quality Nascar type chassis that I have seen.

[Rally Power]

[QUOTE=Rally Power;1237185]Great to hear! What car was it, their Euro Nascar protos?

Yes, correct, the Euro Nascar, which was one of the better quality Nascar type chassis that I have seen.

Don't they use space frame chassis? It'd be great having your opinion on WRC future debate ;)

[NickRally]

[QUOTE=NickRally;1237218]

Don't they use space frame chassis? It'd be great having your opinion on WRC future debate ;)

Thanks for respecting my opinion mate, I typed something on my computer prior to posting in the other thread, but it came a bit negative in general about the state of motorsport, so I thought I should spare the wider audience this negativism :)

[cali]

There's plenty of people who are respecting the insider's view here. Don't bother to read those neg comments. I would really like to read some of your thought so bring it on mate!

[Sulland]

Splendid debut from the Alpine in France:
https://www.facebook.com/TeamFJ/posts/2635974870015469

Showed good "out of the box" speed, that should be even better after analyses of data from first rally!

[skarderud]

Looks really nice to!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200318/a4454cdd20866016ae141a04b4e08b43.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[dupanton]

Splendid debut from the Alpine in France:
https://www.facebook.com/TeamFJ/posts/2635974870015469

Showed good "out of the box" speed, that should be even better after analyses of data from first rally!

And on very difficult conditions, certainly on saturday. The grip was so changing, never seen that before, very tricky. We were around position 55 for the 2nd day and never saw so much crashed cars on the stages as that day :p

[skarderud]

Looking forward to see the Alpine in gravel-set-up!

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[skarderud]

https://youtu.be/obMtW4YDLLM

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

15m to ease from covid stress: Vallejo brother’s 911, Nueva-Labra stage, Rally Llanes 2015 onboard https://youtu.be/1Za0gkw3tSI?t=77

[Jarek Z]

Alpine A110 Rally received its R-GT homologation from the FIA on Monday July 20, 2020.
Source (sorry, French only):
https://lesalpinistes.com/alpine-a110-rally-officiellement-homologuee-r-gt/

[Jarek Z]

Porsche 997 GT3 of Petr Nesetril is competing in Rally di Roma Capitale this weekend.

https://www.rallylink.it/cms20/images/gallery/roma-9/163A0666.JPG

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Porsche 997 GT3 of Petr Nesetril is competing in Rally di Roma Capitale this weekend.

https://www.rallylink.it/cms20/images/gallery/roma-9/163A0666.JPG

But lying 41st overall - nice to watch and hear but that's it.

[NickRally]

But lying 41st overall - nice to watch and hear but that's it.

I assume, without knowing all the details, it is driver related as the fastest RGT (Fiat 124) was ~3.5min behind the fastest R2 car and the Porsche was ~8min slower than the fastest R2.

[Mirek]

Petr Nešetřil is nearly fifty years old gentleman driver who did only his second event outside Czech republic. He drives for fun (but his car is very good actually).

[Rally Power]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed4OP1QXoAIyxUF?format=jpg&name=medium
Photo: https://twitter.com/911_Mag

At Rally Ourense (spain’s series), the Vallejo brothers were able to run once more their former 911 champ car. It was a brief show (radiator leak after SS3) but the crew and the crowd surely loved every minute of it.

Nice on-board: https://vallejoracing.com/este-es-el-tramo-que-nos-hizo-abandonar-en-el-rallye-de-ourense/

[Rally Power]

Delecour’s A110 magnificent livery for Rallye du Mont-Blanc:

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109731669_10157399053360404_6145117511108941284_n. png?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=fZZJJk8X-60AX_SkYF1&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo1-1.fna&oh=296b976f421b4b62c2627b732a18f470&oe=5F4596E2

[the sniper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed4OP1QXoAIyxUF?format=jpg&name=medium
Photo: https://twitter.com/911_Mag

At Rally Ourense (spain’s series), the Vallejo brothers were able to run once more their former 911 champ car. It was a brief show (radiator leak after SS3) but the crew and the crowd surely loved every minute of it.

Nice on-board: https://vallejoracing.com/este-es-el-tramo-que-nos-hizo-abandonar-en-el-rallye-de-ourense/

Been watching the videos from Rallye Ourense (Jose Antonio Suarez in a Skoda as spectacular as I remember him on Rally GB 2016 in the 206!), good stuff! Is this still the Tuthill developed Porsche and does anyone know whether it's still compliant with FIA R-GT regs? Or have they tweaked it under National regs?

[Rally Power]

Been watching the videos from Rallye Ourense (Jose Antonio Suarez in a Skoda as spectacular as I remember him on Rally GB 2016 in the 206!), good stuff! Is this still the Tuthill developed Porsche and does anyone know whether it's still compliant with FIA R-GT regs? Or have they tweaked it under National regs?

I believe they’ve only used a Tuthill developed car on their gravel seasons, but always under local GT rules, which become heavily restrictive in 2016; btw, most 911’s used in spain were ex-racing cup units, converted to rally specs by local tuners.

[m-ast]

I believe they’ve only used a Tuthill developed car on their gravel seasons, but always under local GT rules, which become heavily restrictive in 2016; btw, most 911’s used in spain were ex-racing cup units, converted to rally specs by local tuners.

Yo are nearly right, they never used a tuthill unit, they just developed with them the suspension of the gravel car, which was also a Cup car conversion. The unit used in Ourense was a 2010 cup version (which has been used in Canary Islands last years in hands of Enrique Cruz), running on spanish national regs that since 2016 have put on them an air restrictor, I think in Spain we never had a 911 complying with R-GT FIA regs

[Jarek Z]

Gil Freitas was competing in Rali Vinho da Madeira with his Porsche 991 GT3 last weekend, a round of Portuguese Rally Championship. Unfortunately he failed to finish the event due to some technical problem on the 15th stage. He was 12th overall at that time.

A photo of Freitas' beautiful car:
https://ralivm.com/2020/sites/default/files/_dsc2459_0.jpg

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/61346-rali-vinho-da-madeira-2020/

[Ucci]

[QUOTE=Jarek Z;1249124]Gil Freitas was competing in Rali Vinho da Madeira with his Porsche 991 GT3 last weekend, a round of Portuguese Rally Championship. Unfortunately he failed to finish the event due to some technical problem on the 15th stage. He was 12th overall at that time.

A photo of Freitas' beautiful car:
https://ralivm.com/2020/sites/default/files/_dsc2459_0.jpg

And this is already 991 gen.

[Rally Power]

Gil Freitas was competing in Rali Vinho da Madeira with his Porsche 991 GT3 last weekend, a round of Portuguese Rally Championship. Unfortunately he failed to finish the event due to some technical problem on the 15th stage. He was 12th overall at that time.

A photo of Freitas' beautiful car:
https://ralivm.com/2020/sites/default/files/_dsc2459_0.jpg

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/61346-rali-vinho-da-madeira-2020/

Actually there are 2 drivers called Freitas driving 911's in Madeira...Gil retired after damaging a wheel while Filipe won RGT, ending 10th overall; here's Filipe 911:

https://images.autosport.pt/2020/08/filipe-freitas-rali-calheta-15.jpg
Photo: autosport.pt

[Rally Power]

Surprising job from the A110 crews on Mont-Blanc; scratch on SS1 and P3 overall for Guigou (P8 for Pellier) after the first loop, among 35 R5’s! https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/61762-rallye-mont-blanc-morzine-2020/?s=296502

Btw, here’s Guigou PET video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD-H0HucbUc

[dimviii]

Surprising job from the A110 crews on Mont-Blanc; scratch on SS1 and P3 overall for Guigou (P8 for Pellier) after the first loop, among 35 R5’s!

as i had wrote already watching tests,car was faster from 911s.

[Jarek Z]

Fantastic results for Alpine A110 R-GT drivers in Rallye Mont-Blanc Morzine 2020! Emmanuel Guigou finished the rally in the 3rd position and Laurent Pellier was 6th overall. They were faster than most R5 cars in this rally. Moreover, Robert was 16th and Delecour 17th.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2020/?s=296514

http://www.autonewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/CHAMPIONNAT-DE-FRANCE-2020-RALLYE-MONT-BLANC-MORZINE-DELECOUR-Alpine-A110-RGT-Photo-Jeff-THIRY-86-768x512.jpg

[Jarek Z]

A beautiful photo by our forum member who visited France last weekend:
https://www.facebook.com/rallyimage/photos/a.4740890789256103/4740866339258548/?type=3&theater

[the sniper]

There's probably a sensible explanation for this, but, who knows...? https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/203200/is-this-a-new-porsche-911-safari :D

[pantealex]

Production of Abarth/FIAT 124 has ended.

So it´s bit harder to make new R-GT units.

[Jarek Z]

So who will Alpine fight against now?

[Jarek Z]

Guys, apparently something called FIA RGT Cup still exists and Monza is the last round. Someone called Luc Caprasse leads now, but Italian Andrea Mabellini wants to win Monza and the whole cup with his Abarth 124. Is it going to be the last ever title for Abarth in the history? :)
https://www.fia.com/events/r-gt-cup/season-2020/2020-classifications
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-abarth-rally-cup-winner-qa-andrea-mabellini/

[PLuto]

Nesetril and Gobbin wants to win too :D

[Jarek Z]

Nesetril and Gobbin wants to win too :D

But they lose! Andrea Mabellini overtakes Luc Caprasse in the last round and wins!

https://www.fia.com/events/r-gt-cup/season-2020/2020-classifications

https://www.media.fcaemea.com/cache/8/9/6/9/a/8969aab4404c3d3d72da5bcd9bf5e389d89ab612.jpeg

Is there anybody anywhere who was watching this exciting battle for the RGT Cup? ;)

[PLuto]

But they lose! Andrea Mabellini overtakes Luc Caprasse in the last round and wins!

https://www.fia.com/events/r-gt-cup/season-2020/2020-classifications

https://www.media.fcaemea.com/cache/8/9/6/9/a/8969aab4404c3d3d72da5bcd9bf5e389d89ab612.jpeg

Is there anybody anywhere who was watching this exciting battle for the RGT Cup? ;)

For sure. Me. As I know most of the competitors in the cup personally :D

[Jarek Z]

Michel Bonfils is testing Alpine R-GT in winter conditions before Rallye Monte Carlo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XZ5MGhu-M&feature=emb_logo

[Jarek Z]

Here's Cedric Robert on snow and ice. You can see how difficult it is to drive such car in these conditions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uDyqakncxM&feature=emb_logo

[tommeke_B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx9k_e63pfY&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1agK8gQPsQ0_ntIhRevTchU3zNIW4PBbLfu078-cqee2MHybSyQ_sZpV8&ab_channel=LpRallye13 Astier testing for Monte Carlo, first time he sat behind the wheel of the Alpine. Looks very impressive to me.

[dimviii]

yes they are pretty fast at dry asphalt.

[Andre Oliveira]

Looking good.

[Mirek]

Well, miracles don't happen. 22 minutes off the fastest Rally2 for the best Alpine (Guigou) in Monte Carlo.

[pantealex]

Well, miracles don't happen. 22 minutes off the fastest Rally2 for the best Alpine (Guigou) in Monte Carlo.

It´s still progress, usually GT is slower than Rally4... LOL ;)

[Sulland]

Still, the GT cars are nice to watch. When a good driver throw an Alpine around it is fun both in the car, and outside.

would like to see a gravel kit for the A110.

[Mirek]

On snow it's more a suffering. If you compare with 4WD cars it's like slow motion.

[Sulland]

On snow it's more a suffering. If you compare with 4WD cars it's like slow motion.

I am comparing with old 2wd Escorts, BMW M3 and Volvos that I am guessing is double the price of an Alpine.

Would be nice with a Legend series using Alpine as a support class in a few euro rounds, maybe also a F1 driver here and there. All paid by Alpine. They need to promote!

[Mirek]

A 2021 car shall not compare itself with 1975 car...

[wyler]

A 2021 car shall not compare itself with 1975 car...

and 2wd shall not compare with 4! : )

[Rally Power]

Well, miracles don't happen. 22 minutes off the fastest Rally2 for the best Alpine (Guigou) in Monte Carlo.

That's hardly a surprise, considering the rally conditions. Anyway, hats off to all the brave Alpine crews on this Monte.