GT Class

[wildboar]

Article in the German Rallye Magazin about Duez and his Porsche:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/01/09/r-gt-porsche-is-back/index.html)

He is hoping for nice snow, as it should be for a Monte, although he knows that he has better chances on dry roads.
He doesn't give a prediction, just wants to enjoy it. But if it is a success, he might do more rallies, e.g. Rallye Deutschland.

Edit: there is also a photo gallery from the shakedown in Belgium: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/galerien/2014/shakedown-911-r-gt/index.html)

[Mirek]

I'm surprised that's the old 996.

[mousti]

Article in the German Rallye Magazin about Duez and his Porsche:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/01/09/r-gt-porsche-is-back/index.html)

He is hoping for nice snow, as it should be for a Monte, although he knows that he has better chances on dry roads.
He doesn't give a prediction, just wants to enjoy it. But if it is a success, he might do more rallies, e.g. Rallye Deutschland.

Edit: there is also a photo gallery from the shakedown in Belgium: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/galerien/2014/shakedown-911-r-gt/index.html)
He will have fun for sure :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCpyNXpMRRM

[wildboar]

I found this article (in Swedish) which suggest that Richard Tuthill is going to start Rally Sweden in a Porsche 997 GT3. Now how cool would that be? :-)

http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?i ... ts_id=8633 (http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=8633)

[Mirek]

Is that possible? I mean which tyres is he going to use on those big rims? Stock winter ones? There are no small gravel brakes for GTs so You can not put small rims on...

[wildboar]

Is that possible? I mean which tyres is he going to use on those big rims? Stock winter ones? There are no small gravel brakes for GTs so You can not put small rims on...

Good question... will be interesting to see. In any case he is listed in the latest official entry list as #80:

http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/u ... t-2014.pdf (http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rally-Sweden-Entry-List-2014.pdf)

[Mirek]

It's quite crazy idea to be honest but on the other hand few years back Matthias Kahle managed to do a gravel event in a Porsche 911 GT3 (Lausitz Rally in Germany). He drove on stock winter tyres and it wasn't that slow...

[had_zachau]

Mirek, you probably thinks Lausitz Rallye 2008

http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info ... allye-2008 (http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=702&d=47390&t=Lausitz-Rallye-2008)

[stefanvv]

Sounds like a good fun

[focus206]

I remember Tuthill entered with a Porsche the Swedish Rally... 2010? I think it was the first year of the R-GT regulations, but I could be mistaking. He didn't start back then though. I hope this time he'll do it :)

[wildboar]

I remember Tuthill entered with a Porsche the Swedish Rally... 2010? I think it was the first year of the R-GT regulations, but I could be mistaking. He didn't start back then though. I hope this time he'll do it :)

In 2010 only homologated R-GT cars were possible. The only ever R-GT homologation was the Lotus Exige in summer 2012 (which has only completed two stages of the 2012 Rally Madeira driven by Sousa Bernardo and then was never seen again). So it was impossible in February 2010 to start with a GT car.

Only since this year is it possible to obtain a FIA Technical Passport for a GT car for rallying. And seems to have caused some interest, with Duez starting in a Porsche in Monte Carlo and now Tuthill in Sweden.

[AGA]

Tuthill entered Sweden in 2011 but decided not to start

http://www.rallysweden.com/en/2011/01/k ... ly-sweden/ (http://www.rallysweden.com/en/2011/01/kimi-and-petter-in-rally-sweden/)

[Mirek]

Yes, exactly. In that time it was impossible to start with a car without homologation.

[focus206]

Tuthill entered Sweden in 2011 but decided not to start

http://www.rallysweden.com/en/2011/01/k ... ly-sweden/ (http://www.rallysweden.com/en/2011/01/kimi-and-petter-in-rally-sweden/)
yes, thanks for the correction :)

[dupanton]

Duez retired on the first stage...

[wildboar]

Duez retired on the first stage...

I think that information was wrong. He is listed with +22 minutes for stage 1 and more importantly, he appears in the splits for SS2. Given the very bad time, he probably had an accident but managed to limp through the stage. Hopefully he can continue to service and then show in the afternoon or tomorrow, what the potential of the RGT is.

[wildboar]

Duez completed SS2, losing almost 3 minutes.

[Jarek Z]

I remember Tuthill entered with a Porsche the Swedish Rally... 2010? I think it was the first year of the R-GT regulations, but I could be mistaking. He didn't start back then though. I hope this time he'll do it :)

In 2010 only homologated R-GT cars were possible. The only ever R-GT homologation was the Lotus Exige in summer 2012 (which has only completed two stages of the 2012 Rally Madeira driven by Sousa Bernardo and then was never seen again). So it was impossible in February 2010 to start with a GT car.

That's true. Sousa went off the road on SS3 after some problems with electronics. Sousa and his Lotus took part in some ERC rallies in 2012 as zero car, but unfortunately Rali Vinho da Madeira was the only event were Sousa appeared as a regular competitor. Comments, photos, videos and other details about it can be found here:
http://www.lotuscars.com/gb/racing/r-gt-rally

That is a shame that this interesting car disappeared from the rally scene :(

[Jarek Z]

Does anybody know how many cars are homologated in R-GT class now? I guess Duez's Porsche must be homologated, but I can't find it here:
http://www.fia.com/sport/homologation

[PLuto]

Jarek, go back through this thread. Like Mirek wrote, since previous year there is new system for R-GT cars. And there were no existing RGT homologation before 2013, also Lotus was starting only on exception.

[Jarek Z]

In the interview before the rally Marc Duez said that if he finishes Monte in the last position, he will go to Sahara and stick his head in the sand. Now, he is 54th out of 55 competitors after SS3 :)

[dimviii]

http://fr.best-of-rallylive.com/Actuali ... onte-Carlo (http://fr.best-of-rallylive.com/Actualites/Retour-de-Porsche-au-Monte-Carlo)

[wildboar]

Jarek, go back through this thread. Like Mirek wrote, since previous year there is new system for R-GT cars. And there were no existing RGT homologation before 2013, also Lotus was starting only on exception.

The Lotus Exige has been homologated on 1 July 2012 (you can find it here: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... %C3%A9.doc (http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/Homologation_Valable_01.07.2012_Modifi%C3%A9.doc))

The new "Technical Pass" regulations for RGT are valid since this year.

[Jarek Z]

Duez and his Porsche in the 37th position on SS4, 14 seconds behind Martin Rada and his Alfa Romeo 147 ;)
Overal Duez still in the penultimate position.
Does anybody have any videos?

[wildboar]

Duez and his Porsche also complete the last stage of the day. Not a great day, losing a lot of time on every stage, between 9.62 (SS6) and 13.10 (SS3) seconds per kilometer (not counting SS1, where there must have been an incident).
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info ... Carlo-2014 (http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=13442&d=473137&t=Rallye-Monte-Carlo-2014)

But most importantly, they are still there and can try again tomorrow.

[Jarek Z]

Rada and his Alfa already out:
http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2 ... fea5a0.jpg (http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2014/1225/1225_rally_monte_carlo_2014_6f93fea5a0.jpg)

but Duez and his Porsche still in action :)
http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2 ... df86d6.jpg (http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2014/1225/1225_rally_monte_carlo_2014_2c1fdf86d6.jpg)

[wildboar]

Very good time von Duez and his Porsche today: on SS7 he is classifed as 24th, better than many RC3 cars.

[Jarek Z]

Very good time? And what will you say after SS8? Duez and his Porsche in the 19th position on the 8th stage! :)

[wildboar]

Very good time? And what will you say after SS8? Duez and his Porsche in the 19th position on the 8th stage! :)

Yes, I saw that! :) Very pleased to see that the R-GT is competitve. On SS8 there was only one RC3 ahead of Duez. And these are still very wet and icy conditions. Will be great to see some R-GTs in Germany or on some tarmac ERC rounds.

[mousti]

If the Belgian 997's could get that homologation, there will be for sure in Ypres some of them there! Much better than driving Ypres in a "GT Rally" with only 3 cars or less.

[wildboar]

Unfortunately, Duez and his Porsche had to retire before SS12 yesterday due to mechanical problems. I hope to see him again on other WRC or ERC rounds.

wrc.com has a small article about him: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january- ... 2-12-.html (http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2014/marc-duez-monte-sideshow-/page/953--12-12-.html)

[Jarek Z]

I found only two short videos of Duez and his Porsche on Monte, but I can imagine it must have been a spectacular view and sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4VqMQLs1K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQQJFBKmDYU

Here's also a spectacular corner during Rally Meslin l'Eveque Cuistax:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iK80nmI8lY

[Jarek Z]

http://www.nextgen-auto.com/local/cache-vignettes/L375xH236/arton71420-13b5f.jpg

[Jarek Z]

http://www.autonewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/WRC-2014-MONTE-CARLO-La-PORSCHE-de-Marc-DUEZ-600x400.jpg

[fegh]

It's really nice to see GT cars on Rally stages, a 911 997 GT3 is registered for Rally Sweden, interesting to see it on icy roads.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/startlist.p ... weden-2014 (http://www.ewrc-results.com/startlist.php?e=13892&t=Rally-Sweden-2014)

[wildboar]

@Tuthill_Porsche: Lots of rumours re our 911s for Rally Sweden. Currently big black hole of news. Will announce the cars when we know what's what. #porsche

[focus206]

@Tuthill_Porsche: Lots of rumours re our 911s for Rally Sweden. Currently big black hole of news. Will announce the cars when we know what's what. #porsche
So does this mean that Tuthill is entering a Porsche but still doesn't know which model?

[wildboar]

@Tuthill_Porsche: Lots of rumours re our 911s for Rally Sweden. Currently big black hole of news. Will announce the cars when we know what's what. #porsche
So does this mean that Tuthill is entering a Porsche but still doesn't know which model?

I am more afraid that he doesn't know yet if he will enter a Porsche. Also interesting that he talks in the plural: 911s, cars.

[Sulland]

The GT class is for me adding spice to the dish, or being the icing on the cake if you will.

It is a good move by FIA to ease the regs, but keeping the safety part as the number one issue.

Better to have a few Porsches and if so Nissan or Lotus, the important thing is to give them a possibility!
Had it been a dry Monte, the GT car would have impressed many!

[Langdale Forest]

Could a GT car get a top 10 finish on a tarmac rally like Spain or France?

[Mirek]

Could a GT car get a top 10 finish on a tarmac rally like Spain or France?

If an S2000 could finish Sardegna in 5th overall, why not?

[dimviii]

Could a GT car get a top 10 finish on a tarmac rally like Spain or France?

If an S2000 could finish Sardegna in 5th overall, why not?

at dry.

[CWJ]

@Tuthill_Porsche: Lots of rumours re our 911s for Rally Sweden. Currently big black hole of news. Will announce the cars when we know what's what. #porsche
So does this mean that Tuthill is entering a Porsche but still doesn't know which model?

I am more afraid that he doesn't know yet if he will enter a Porsche. Also interesting that he talks in the plural: 911s, cars.

He might get big work and cost to get first FIA data sheet for a 997. So it might be easier and cheaper to rent the only existing GT Porsche, the Duez 996 :D

[wildboar]

Tuthill and his 997 didn't make it to Rally Sweden, because they couldn't finish the papers in time. But he is determined to be competing with it this season - and will be preparing the car to run on gravel!

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/02/04/tuth ... tar-in-wrc (http://www.maxrally.com/2014/02/04/tuthill-porsche-997-set-to-star-in-wrc)

[AndyRAC]

The more the merrier - only problem is the possibility of the dreaded BoP for GT cars...... :laugh:

[wildboar]

I found this article in Spanish, which talks about rumours about FIA wanting to stage an RGT world cup next season, to be run on selected ERC and WRC events.

http://www.motorpasionf1.com/mundial-rallies/la-fia-estudia-crear-una-copa-del-mundo-para-los-rgt

Does anybody know more about this? Would of course be very exciting. On the other hand, so far we had only 1 RGT competitor this season.

[NaBUru38]

There's too many international rally competitions in Europe. WRC and ERC can't do so many races there. There's too many classes and too few entries each.

If a driver does a European or World championship, they won't do it on an R2, it ridiculous. And spectators won't care about them either, they want to see powerful cars.

The Porsche 911 Cup could work. But who on earth thinks that a GT3 is cheap to do rallying?

[wildboar]

An RGT Porsche is entered for Rally Finland:
#81 Jani Ylipahkala in a 997 GT3.
http://www.nesteoilrallyfinland.fi/attachements/2014-07-04T10-18-32253.pdf

Would be very spectacular, if it is actually going to happen!

[Mirek]

Which tyres are they going to use? I remember only one case when modern Porsche was used for gravel rally. It was Matthias Kahle who used it in German Lausitz rally few years back. He drove all the rally on stock winter tyres!

[tommeke_B]

The Porsche 911 Cup could work. But who on earth thinks that a GT3 is cheap to do rallying?
A GT3 (in current regulations) is actually cheaper to run than a 208 R2 for example. Of course the cost of buying the car is much bigger.

[Jeppe]

An RGT Porsche is entered for Rally Finland:
#81 Jani Ylipahkala in a 997 GT3.
http://www.nesteoilrallyfinland.fi/attachements/2014-07-04T10-18-32253.pdf

Would be very spectacular, if it is actually going to happen!

Jani got the car... ...and in the last winter they shoot Aeolus tyres commercial in the Lapland. But I got no idea does Aeolus got tyres suitable for gravel rallying..?

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/l/t1.0-9/1001896_712555725431159_1311087582_n.jpg

[pantealex]

Rally Finland:

#81 Porsche 997 GT3 will be with 15" tyres because of FIA tyre codes

they have facebook page "GT3 RALLY" (only Finnish text)

[Mirek]

How could that work with Porsche brakes?

[wildboar]

Some images of Ylipahkala's GT3:

https://twitter.com/RallyingUK/status/492441664947240960/photo/1

[wildboar]

Richard Tuthill is listed as #132 for Rally Deutschland with a Porsche GT3, co-driven by Stéphane Prévot.
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/179/List%20of%20Entries.pdf

I assume that is the car they wanted to prepare for Sweden but did not finish in time?

[AndyRAC]

That car is out this weekend as course car in the Harry Flatters Rally on Epynt.....

[pantealex]

NORF: 997 GT3 #81 Ylipahkala got FIA-passport hour ago, everything is ready for start!

[wildboar]

Tuthill's 997 RGT has been approved by the FIA. They are ready to start in Germany.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=30610

[wildboar]

Here is a video about the (rather short) adventure of the Porsche at Rally Finland, including onboard footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS6qyOY2BUE

[janvanvurpa]

OOOOPs wrong forum! (How'd that happen?):dozey:

[Rallyper]

Here is a video about the (rather short) adventure of the Porsche at Rally Finland, including onboard footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS6qyOY2BUE

At 1:09 there's an ugly face. Guess who?

[wildboar]

Tuthill Porsche released a video of the Germany testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etozNcW7obs

Rally fantastic! I like it that they publish updates and videos. And the car looks just great. Hopefully they find a few customers who buy one and race it on the WRC and ERC rallies.

[janvanvurpa]

At 1:09 there's an ugly face. Guess who?


Oi! du är kändis nu!

[A FONDO]

Tuthill Porsche released a video of the Germany testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etozNcW7obs

Rally fantastic! I like it that they publish updates and videos. And the car looks just great. Hopefully they find a few customers who buy one and race it on the WRC and ERC rallies.
Very nice looking true racing car. 2wd hatchbacks must be replaced with this to make the sport more attractive.

[Ucci]

As I don't know driving level of Tuthill, I will ask this way: Can we expect from him to be at least so fast as for example are Zeltner or Dobberkau? O

[CWJ]

No since Tuthill has no expierience from many rallys, limeted FIA tyres and a very small restrictor since 2 days taking him more then 100hp i guess. FIA cutted the cars eggs.

[N.O.T]

Tuthill Porsche released a video of the Germany testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etozNcW7obs

Rally fantastic! I like it that they publish updates and videos. And the car looks just great. Hopefully they find a few customers who buy one and race it on the WRC and ERC rallies.

saw the car in harry flatters rally 2014 it looked really fast but it was lacking in the sound department...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51932399@N07/14768184862/

[Ucci]

No since Tuthill has no expierience from many rallys, limeted FIA tyres and a very small restrictor since 2 days taking him more then 100hp i guess. FIA cutted the cars eggs.
100 hp less?? normal street 997 GT3 3.8l engine has 435 hp, so that means he is driving cca.350 hp? He will be beaten by faster R2 drivers....FIA made a mess, again....

[wildboar]

very small restrictor since 2 days taking him more then 100hp i guess. FIA cutted the cars eggs.

Where is this information from? The car was prepared according to RGT regulations, I cannot imagine that they just overlooked something so massive and had to reduce 100hp in the last minute.

[CWJ]

The info is from a team in the same service area. The way to get the documents (cost 8000 euros) seems to be a mess. Nobody cares obviously about the RGT regulations 3.4kg per hp. No written answer, only verbal orders :) At least the first 997 is running with a FIA sticker, to get it competitive (alone in class) will be part of the future. Under this circumstances other 997 teams will not start their homologation work.

[Vepe]

At least the first 997 is running with a FIA sticker, to get it competitive (alone in class) will be part of the future. Under this circumstances other 997 teams will not start their homologation work.

What about the Porsche that ran in Finland? Wasn't that a 997?

[wildboar]

Q& with Richard Tuthill on MaxRally: http://www.maxrally.com/2014/08/21/qa-richard-tuthill
Some interesting answers:


We’re at a good point with the car, but I wouldn’t say that what we see here is the definitive version, and next we’re working on bringing out the car in gravel specification for Rally GB, which will be another different ball game.




The power and the noise are fantastic and of course Porsche handling is legendary. Traction can be a bit of an issue, particularly out of some of the uphill hairpins like you see on Rallye Deutschland, but equally the engine is at the rear, so this helps to gain grip.




In the end, it’s designed to compete against other RGT cars, so you can’t really expect to compare it to the other cars on Rallye Deutschland this year. It’s got a similar power to weight ratio to the Group N cars but rear-wheel drive, so inevitably it’s going to lose some time to them. Basically our mission here is to show the car to the best of our abilities and give people something to remember.

[wildboar]

A respectable 31st place for Tuthill on SS1, ahead of most RC3 and several RC2.

[Ucci]

solid performance on the 1st stage!

[CWJ]

What about the Porsche that ran in Finland? Wasn't that a 997?

Crazy optic car, could be a 997 but is a totally different (only FIN) story. Did it got a restrictor? :)

[wildboar]

Crazy optic car, could be a 997 but is a totally different (only FIN) story. Did it got a restrictor? :)

The Porsche in Finland also ran under RGT rules, so it must also have had a restrictor. But I don't know many details.

[Ucci]

Pitty for FIA restriction, because those 911's have one thing, which no R3, R5, WRC...can offer : Wonderful enigine sound! Once you hear Zeltner or Dobberkau in full action, you forget everything else, including WRC cars.....even old 2.0l kitcars can not match against 6-cylinder flat N/A engine....
Not to mention to owe balls of a bull to drive rear engined 911 on the limit on proper rally stage....

[AndyRAC]

It seemed to gather lots of interest. I hope they get some customers for these cars. And maybe, possibly Prodrive thinking about a Vantage GT3 RGT.....

[CWJ]

The Porsche in Finland also ran under RGT rules, so it must also have had a restrictor.

R-GT regulation doesn't presribe a restrictor, they just mention a weight/power ratio 3.4

And: I'v heart something about an R-GT cup in ERC for 2014 with Ypres above else...

[wildboar]

And there will be more RGTs in WRC and ERC: Romain Dumas will enter Rally France with a Porsche 911 GT3 RS RGT. He also wants to start in Corsica.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/rallye/news/2014/08/rallye-frankreich-dumas-startet-mit-selbst-getuntem-porsche-14082505.html

[AndyRAC]

And there will be more RGTs in WRC and ERC: Romain Dumas will enter Rally France with a Porsche 911 GT3 RS RGT. He also wants to start in Corsica.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/rallye/news/2014/08/rallye-frankreich-dumas-startet-mit-selbst-getuntem-porsche-14082505.html

Ah, that's good to hear. I did wonder whether he'd enter Rally France - and in a Porsche, now there is the RGT category. Just need to get Timo Bernhard out in one.

[pantealex]

What about the Porsche that ran in Finland? Wasn't that a 997?

997 GT3 Cup version and it was not one on-off race, there will be more starts...

[wildboar]

It looks like François Delecour will be driving Tuthill's Porsche at Rally de France.
http://www.echappement.com/2014/09/delecour-en-porsche-au-rallye-de-france-cest-presque-fait/

So we will for the first time see some RGTs competing against each other. Very exciting!

[KiwiWRCfan]

the latest Motorsport Monday contains the following in an article on 2015 WRC proposals.

"There is also a proposal for a new FIA R-GT cup in 2015, for asphalt events including Monte Carlo, Ypres, Deutschland, Valais and Corsica."

While 2015 calendars are yet to be confirmed it would appear this cup will be a mixture of WRC and ERC events.

refer page 62 for full article http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=41ce3c97-31a9-485b-9c69-769e9c80733e

[PLuto]

Wow, it looks like somebody was reading some of my suggestions how to improve the WRC...

[Andre Oliveira]

I like the one: Banning split times info on dashboard.

[wildboar]

WRC has published a video special about Tuthill and his Porsche at Rallye Deutschland:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N82onSK0V4

Tuthill also mentions the idea of an RGT cup.

[Ucci]

WRC has published a video special about Tuthill and his Porsche at Rallye Deutschland:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N82onSK0V4

Tuthill also mentions the idea of an RGT cup.

Good promotion, but did I hear correctly?? Due to restriction just 320 HP?? That is app.130 KP less than a stock version. Shame...

[wildboar]

Good promotion, but did I hear correctly?? Due to restriction just 320 HP?? That is app.130 KP less than a stock version. Shame...

Yes, I even read somewhere that it was only 290hp in the end. But if I remember correctly, he also says something about the RGT regulations being new and hopefully getting refined.

[mousti]

The BMA Porsche that Snijers drove and won the East Belgian Rally has around 420 HP

[wildboar]

Rally Guide 1 for Monte Carlo 2015 is out, and as an interesting detail, the rally also counts for
FIA RGT Cup for Drivers
FIA RGT Cup for Co-drivers
http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Rallye-Guide-1-GB.pdf

So it looks like the RGT Cup is going to happen! Are any other details known? Hopefully there will be a few entries in this category.

[wildboar]

Good news! The Tuthill 911 RGT is allowed a larger restrictor for Rally de France, up from from 36 to 39mm now giving 350bhp (a rise of around 25bhp).
http://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/francois-delecour-joins-tuthill-porsche-wrc-france/

[Mirek]

A change from 36 mm to 39 mm makes definitely more than 25 Hp ;) My rough estimation based on the restrictor area is 50 Hp (if 350 Hp with 39 mm is correct value).

[OldF]

A change from 36 mm to 39 mm makes definitely more than 25 Hp ;) My rough estimation based on the restrictor area is 50 Hp (if 350 Hp with 39 mm is correct value).

I think you mean "if 350 Hp with 36 mm is correct value"

[Mirek]

No, I meant it as I wrote it.

[OldF]

Ok, now I understand. I interpreted the ”up from from 36 to 39mm now giving 350bhp (a rise of around 25bhp)” that the 350 hp was with 36 mm restrictor. My bad, seems I don’t understand English properly.:)

[SubaruNorway]

What do the cars in Netherlands and such run? The Tuthill Porsche sounds nothing like those, i was a bit disappointed with the sound in Germany.

[Mirek]

They don't have restrictors in my opinion. Stock 911 GT3 has way more power than R-GT and You don't need to do any engine rebuilds during the whole season. It's all stupid...

[tommeke_B]

What do the cars in Netherlands and such run? The Tuthill Porsche sounds nothing like those, i was a bit disappointed with the sound in Germany.

Very few Porsche's in the Netherlands, there were some a few years ago but those were more like "Group N", a bit like what Duez was driving in Monte Carlo. Rules in national rallying allow much more. Porsche's are more seen in France (GT+, search for Gilles Nantet, Romain Dumas etc), Belgium (Snijers, Vanparijs, Claerhout, Viaene etc) and Germany (Zeltner and Dobberkau for example). I think the rules in these 3 countries are quite similar. I think HP varies from 400 to 470hp. I know that the Porsche of BMA (that Snijers drove 2 times last year) had some 420-425hp, sequential gearbox, many ultra-light parts (the doors are like made of plastic), Reiger suspension with extra long suspension travel (modified to the original) and much more, it's a brilliant piece of engineering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJLFKNATU0 The sound (or in this case music) is very different to what we've seen in WRC... :)

[tommeke_B]

They don't have restrictors in my opinion. Stock 911 GT3 has way more power than R-GT and You don't need to do any engine rebuilds during the whole season. It's all stupid...

Exactly. A few years ago Tim Vanparijs (who is driving a Porsche GT3 since 2006) told me that the car was even cheaper to run than if you wanted to run a C2 R2 Max properly... Biggest costs are probably the tyres. :D

[stefanvv]

Very few Porsche's in the Netherlands, there were some a few years ago but those were more like "Group N", a bit like what Duez was driving in Monte Carlo. Rules in national rallying allow much more. Porsche's are more seen in France (GT+, search for Gilles Nantet, Romain Dumas etc), Belgium (Snijers, Vanparijs, Claerhout, Viaene etc) and Germany (Zeltner and Dobberkau for example). I think the rules in these 3 countries are quite similar. I think HP varies from 400 to 470hp. I know that the Porsche of BMA (that Snijers drove 2 times last year) had some 420-425hp, sequential gearbox, many ultra-light parts (the doors are like made of plastic), Reiger suspension with extra long suspension travel (modified to the original) and much more, it's a brilliant piece of engineering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJLFKNATU0 The sound (or in this case music) is very different to what we've seen in WRC... :)

Also I think in Portugal and Spain rules are more free for the Porsches.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Well, in Portugal the rules are a bit unclear... because... teams can do almost what they want and then homologate the car into the GT Cup class... that have no regulation! Or, if there is one, it's based on a car built first.
I like the car, but I thin k this rules are a bit unfair to the guys who bought R5 and S2000! Speacially when you see R5/S2000 try to go as flat as they can over corners, and then you see the Porsche of Ze Pedro, brake later (since it as bigger brakes) slowly make the corner, and then bullet out of it and win rallys this way!

[Sulland]

Very few Porsche's in the Netherlands, there were some a few years ago but those were more like "Group N", a bit like what Duez was driving in Monte Carlo. Rules in national rallying allow much more. Porsche's are more seen in France (GT+, search for Gilles Nantet, Romain Dumas etc), Belgium (Snijers, Vanparijs, Claerhout, Viaene etc) and Germany (Zeltner and Dobberkau for example). I think the rules in these 3 countries are quite similar. I think HP varies from 400 to 470hp. I know that the Porsche of BMA (that Snijers drove 2 times last year) had some 420-425hp, sequential gearbox, many ultra-light parts (the doors are like made of plastic), Reiger suspension with extra long suspension travel (modified to the original) and much more, it's a brilliant piece of engineering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJLFKNATU0 The sound (or in this case music) is very different to what we've seen in WRC... :)

What is the rev limit on that Porsche, sounds wonderful!!

[Ucci]

Well, in Portugal the rules are a bit unclear... because... teams can do almost what they want and then homologate the car into the GT Cup class... that have no regulation! Or, if there is one, it's based on a car built first.
I like the car, but I thin k this rules are a bit unfair to the guys who bought R5 and S2000! Speacially when you see R5/S2000 try to go as flat as they can over corners, and then you see the Porsche of Ze Pedro, brake later (since it as bigger brakes) slowly make the corner, and then bullet out of it and win rallys this way!
Belive me that driving P911GT3 cup car on rally stages requiers "bull balls". The handling is very tricky, to find a limit with engine behind rear axle is nowhere so "easy job" like in rally spec cars R5/S2000.
I staded already many times: 911 was never created for rallying, so to be fast or even faster than R5/S2000 is always related with a lot of risks. Respect to all 911 drivers....

[CWJ]

Germany (Zeltner and Dobberkau for example). I think the rules in these 3 countries are quite similar. I think HP varies from 400 to 470hp. I know that the Porsche of BMA (that Snijers drove 2 times last year) had some 420-425hp, sequential gearbox, many ultra-light parts

Leading German 997 have 425 hp from 3.800cc engine, air restrictor, sequential 6 speed holinger gearbox and about 1.350kg empty weight.

Main difference to Belgium should be cylinder capacity?

[Mirek]

What size of restrictor the German cars have?

[wildboar]

The 2015 RGT Cup has officially been announced!
It will be run on these 5 events:

Rallye Monte-Carlo
GEKO Ypres Rally
Rallye Deutschland
Rallye International du Valais
Tour de Corse

Great news! I am looking forward to this and hope for decent entries.

http://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/fia-announces-rgt-cup-wrc-2015/

[Jack4688`]

Now that I will watch on TV!

[Sulland]

Very interesting debate on this topic in the french wrc round thread. I paste Mireks view in here because it capture the essence very well.


Of course I know that. I like them because they are very spectacular for the people. In most of typical spectator places R5 cars are boring (Fiesta especially). GTs are loud with bad traction, people like that. Of course in high speed sections they are not so nice to watch like S2000 for example but that's life. Something is good somewhere, something else elsewhere. I always like the variety and I'm absolutely sure that even though GTs would be quite slow and dangerous for Czech roads everybody here would welcome them just like always when they came to Rally Lužické Hory (Lausitz Cup wih Germans). They never did any good result but they always entertained the crowd.

Besides that don't forget that the cars currently running in Alsace are restricted with less power than stock ones...

The GT class is in its infantcy right now, and FIA is playing with restrictors and power to get it right. The 911 is like a dragster, compared to a WRCar, fast on straights and slow in the corners. Like a 2wd group B car was.
If people like rally cars that are glued to the asfalt, you could watch track racing instead. Rally in my view is man controlling machines on the edge, and that the physical grip is loosing to power. It is entertainment, and the fans like that they need to be driven brutally, and not on railtracks.

A supercar in rallycross, is basically a WRCar with 600 hp, and needs to be driven on the edge, and often the pilots loose.

to get that back to Rally the key is with Michelin and how soft a tire is alowed to be. If they have to use hockey puck hardness, they would be entertaing for the customer (you and me)!

But as always the right balance is always hard to find straight away, so the testbed FIA is using the GT class as now, could be useful for other classes in Rally as well!

loved to see the 911, Nissan 350 and others they used in Belgium a few years back, sonce they had sound, slides and speed, and the drivers had to break before the bends, so safety was covered as well!

[cardy]

what cars will run in the class??

[Mirek]

Basically any GT car can run. There is no need for homologation anymore. The team must apply to FIA for car papers.

[raybak]

Would be great to add Targa Tasmania as a round for the category. I think would be a good event for them.

[Jarek Z]

Would be great to add Targa Tasmania as a round for the category. I think would be a good event for them.

I'm afraid it isn't possible. Tasmania is too far away and too expensive. Competitors in GT-Class are mostly private European drivers.

[Jarek Z]

Guys, I didn't have time to follow the Rally France thread. Are there any good videos of the GT-cars available?

[cardy]

what about the Lotus R-GT does that still compete???

[Mirek]

No, that project is dead.

[makinen_fan]

Guys, I didn't have time to follow the Rally France thread. Are there any good videos of the GT-cars available?

Just found this short clip, amazing sound!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=783363638394452&set=vb.239679776096177&type=2&theater

[wildboar]

Guys, I didn't have time to follow the Rally France thread. Are there any good videos of the GT-cars available?

Here are 3.5 minutes of pure Porsche action at Rally de France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzJguNWAVeM
Enjoy!

[Jarek Z]

Thank you guys! This is exactly what I was looking for!

[Sulland]

Very nice drive by romain Dumas in the Porsche in Tour de Corse. I think they getting close to the right power/weight ratio now!

This will be a great class to follow if more cars are approved!

[Ucci]

Very nice drive by romain Dumas in the Porsche in Tour de Corse. I think they getting close to the right power/weight ratio now!

This will be a great class to follow if more cars are approved!

Indeed @sulland, he as a circuit driver to be faster with RWD as Maghalhaes, Leandri, Tarabus, Tlustak, Pushar....well, if I would be in their skin, I wouldn't be proud of this fact....

[Mirek]

Calling Dumas a circuit driver isn't accurate. He has been regularly doing rallies in Porsche for years. He has done at least 36 rallies (32 in Porsche) in last 6 years. That number comes from ewrc-results.com. I'm quite sure he has done even more.

[Ucci]

Calling Dumas a circuit driver isn't accurate. He has been regularly doing rallies in Porsche for years. He has done at least 36 rallies (32 in Porsche) in last 6 years. That number comes from ewrc-results.com. I'm quite sure he has done even more.

And how many rallies did mentioned guys?? I think more, as they drive just rallies...and they drive cars designed for rally, 4WD, not a beast, which is almost undreivable in the wet.....

[AndyRAC]

Dumas will drive anything - he's one of the most versatile drivers around; whether that is racing, rallying or Hillclimbing; and he's used to driving different types of cars in a short space of time; he's gone from driving an LMP car, to a WRCar, to a GT car and then a Historic car all in the space of a few weeks.

[stefanvv]

Latest events show GT class is becoming more and more competitive. I llllike it.

[Mirek]

And how many rallies did mentioned guys?? I think more, as they drive just rallies...and they drive cars designed for rally, 4WD, not a beast, which is almost undreivable in the wet.....

You called him circuit driver. For me somebody who did 6 seasons in rallying is not circuit driver but an experienced versatile driver. Call it as You wish but Dumas is one of the most experienced GT rally drivers in the world despite circuits being his primary playground.

[Sulland]

Do anyone know what FIA now approves on a Porsche, compared to the start of the GT class, and what steps they have gone trough since they started individual homologations?

[vino_93]

Calling Dumas a circuit driver isn't accurate. He has been regularly doing rallies in Porsche for years. He has done at least 36 rallies (32 in Porsche) in last 6 years. That number comes from ewrc-results.com. I'm quite sure he has done even more.

3 are missing with modern cars. Maybe some are missing with his old 911 SC.

[AndyRAC]

Quite a few of the Sportscar drivers do a bit of Rallying when the time allows. I know Timo Bernhard has done German rounds in a 911 GT3, and recently did an event in a 207 S2000. Guy Smith has also done a few events and a few RAC's in a Historic Escort MkII.

[Mirek]

Do anyone know what FIA now approves on a Porsche, compared to the start of the GT class, and what steps they have gone trough since they started individual homologations?

I think they enlarged restrictors.

[HaCo]

If I understand translation correctly then Rally di Roma has been stopped after SS3 due to a heart attack of a driver in stage SS3.
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/romacapitale

[focus206]

If I understand translation correctly then Rally di Roma has been stopped after SS3 due to a heart attack of a driver in stage SS3.
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/romacapitale

Yes, it is correct, the driver died unfortunately. Wrong thread though, nothing to do with GT class.

[HaCo]

Sorry, wrong thread. :(

[Sulland]

I think they enlarged restrictors.

Yes, but do you know in what steps?

Are any other brands than Porsche that teams or tuners tried to have cars homologated as R-GT with the new indi system?

[Mirek]

It was not Porsche company who homologated those cars but single teams. It's not homologation but a kind of approval from FIA in a written form.

[Sulland]

Tuthill denied UK start: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116740
Too bad, can he drive as 0 car maybe, or outside competition?

[wildboar]

No idea if this is in any way realistic, but Italian driver Ruggero Ravaglioli would like to enter the RGT Cup - with a Ford Mustang!

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/12/17/rgt-american-style

[makinen_fan]

Francois Delecour commits to inaugural R-GT Cup: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117305

Here is the article (since autosport is not totally free...)

Francois Delecour has committed to the FIA's new R-GT Cup series for GT cars in the World and European Rally Championships, securing a Porsche 911 drive for the inaugural season.
The Frenchman will start his campaign in a Tuthill Porsche on the Monte Carlo Rally later this month - an event he has won outright previously.
Delecour first drove the British team's Porsche 911 GT3 on the Rally of France last year, where he was trading times with the similar car of Romain Dumas when he slid off the road and damaged the car's radiator.
Since the Alsace event, Delecour's sole focus has been to source the budget for an R-GT assault.
"It is fantastic to be driving in [the] R-GT Cup, it's a fantastic opportunity," Delecour told AUTOSPORT.
"There are some really nice rallies, but for sure, Monte Carlo will be the most difficult. It's very important that we win this one."
Delecour will be testing the Porsche for two days in the French Alps next week and, despite having tackled the Monte 18 times previously, he acknowledges the scale of the task ahead.
"It will help to have some experience of this car on these roads before we start the rally," said Delecour, who is backed by Visit Romania.
"This will be a very, very difficult rally for this car. The Porsche is quite wide and some of these stages are narrow and tricky and, of course, we won't have the same grip as the four-wheel drive cars.
"It is fantastic to be driving this car again. You know, this is my rally, the Monte and to be here in a Porsche 911 is the dream for me."
The FIA's first ever rally series for GT cars also includes the Ypres Rally, Rally Germany, Rally Valais and the Tour of Corsica.

[Jack4688`]

Francois Delacour has comitted to the championship for this year with Tuthill Porsche

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117305

Edit: Too slow :D

[makinen_fan]

It was posted in the video thread, but maybe more relevant here.

Chris Harris driving the Tuthill 997 RGT, with a short interview with Richard Tuthill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7afNZsAvqI

Looks good, sounds awsome! Shame they didn't let it run in Wales last year

[Mirek]

Really nice. It doesn't look that undriveable and it's for sure spectacular! Plus of course the best sound of all recent rallycars. All in all it seems to be much better than I thought :)

[stefanvv]

Yeah, Tuthill seem to be done great job

[Dug83]

He does mention that he is running without a silencer in the video. So I guessing that for the WRC they have to run a silencer? Still sounds better than anything the WRC at the moment either way.

[Franky]

It seems that Finns have taken on converting Aston Martin Vantage V8 to the RGT rules - http://www.mat.fi/gallery/85

[tommeke_B]

It seems that Finns have taken on converting Aston Martin Vantage V8 to the RGT rules - http://www.mat.fi/gallery/85
Prodrive tried it once, was rubbish. The only RGT other than Porsche that had some potential was the Lotus. Cars like the Aston or a Nissan 370Z aren't efficient enough, with no weight pushing on the driven wheels...

[A FONDO]

http://www.mat.fi/images/gallery/85/6.jpg

451

p.s. this must be some student's joke. watch the fotos at your own risk.

[rallyfiend]

Prodrive tried it once, was rubbish. The only RGT other than Porsche that had some potential was the Lotus. Cars like the Aston or a Nissan 370Z aren't efficient enough, with no weight pushing on the driven wheels...

There was one competing in the Australian Rally Championship as well.

Key word being 'was'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86AKZ8O7zeY&sns=fb

[pantealex]

It seems that Finns have taken on converting Aston Martin Vantage V8 to the RGT rules - http://www.mat.fi/gallery/85

to ArcticRally Rovaniemi 23-24.1. MR Mäkelä himself will drive it.

[janvanvurpa]

to ArcticRally Rovaniemi 23-24.1. MR Mäkelä himself will drive it.

Is that Mäkelä the guy who makes such beautiful restorations of cars and publishes all the photos?
The guy who rebuilt the GpB Celicas better than new and the Ford Model T with BDA?

[pantealex]

Is that Mäkelä the guy who makes such beautiful restorations of cars and publishes all the photos?
The guy who rebuilt the GpB Celicas better than new and the Ford Model T with BDA?

Yes, last year he drove totally rebuilt ex.Grönholm red 206 WRC and year before that Alitalia Ferrari 308 GTB on snow.

look "Finnish Championship" discussion

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Delecour car for MC ..
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7OTsNCIEAA1fs9.jpg

Wrap
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7OTsu2IQAEwfax.jpg

[wildboar]

Looks like there is a new contender for the RGT Cup: "Scuderia RGT Motorsport" wants to compete in the RGT Cup and the Italian championship with a Porsche 997. As I understand it, it should be finanaced via crowdfunding.

http://www.scuderiargtmotorsport.com/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looking good now all finished:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7e-IUwIYAA3ykV.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFNro9JgZ0

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I think they'll need GT86, 4C, Mustang Ecoboost, and MX-5 R-GT (and bring back the Exige)

[stefanvv]

(and bring back the Exige)

Oh, no. Without this in GT class

[Gregor-y]

A new Mustang would be interesting. I saw a new one on the highway at the end of December and it didn't look half bad. Assuming Ford is serious about selling it in Europe a GT entry would be a great idea.

[stefanvv]

A new Mustang would be interesting. I saw a new one on the highway at the end of December and it didn't look half bad. Assuming Ford is serious about selling it in Europe a GT entry would be a great idea.

Somebody already has ambitions for it - http://www.maxrally.com/2014/12/17/rgt-american-style

It says, may be Germany, Ypres and Corsica.

[Jarek Z]

Guys, are there any videos of the GT cars? I see they are not very fast on the stages of Monte (slower than top FWD cars), but it would be great to see and hear them in action.

[Langdale Forest]

What is the max speed and power of a GT car and would it be any good on gravel?

[stefanvv]

Guys, are there any videos of the GT cars? I see they are not very fast on the stages of Monte (slower than top FWD cars), but it would be great to see and hear them in action.

I'm observing youtube last 24 hours for this, but I see mostly Kubica crashes and lots of spamming. The only footage I've seen is at the end of these 2 videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9JjftTaMWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhsa0lOY_B8

[Jarek Z]

I'm observing youtube last 24 hours for this, but I see mostly Kubica crashes and lots of spamming. The only footage I've seen is at the end of these 2 videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9JjftTaMWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhsa0lOY_B8

Thanks Stefan! I was looking for the videos myself, but found only some from pre-event tests.

Francois Delecour and his Porsche on dry tarmac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4sj4letECY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsWphOKxMPs

Francois Delecour and his Porsche on ice&snow (probably the best video of the three):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaiTJ0xA2Vk

[stefanvv]

Francois Delecour and his Porsche on ice&snow (probably the best video of the three):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaiTJ0xA2Vk

Yes, this is great indeed, haven't watched it, thanks for sharing. There is also late December PET of Dumas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFFv7KpYsI, but for sure Delecour is doing much better in Monte conditions.

[Jarek Z]

There is also late December PET of Dumas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFFv7KpYsI, but for sure Delecour is doing much better in Monte conditions.

Thanks! Here's another one from Dumas' tests in Decemeber. I think his Porsche sounds different that the one of Delecour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYcusTVKQY

[stefanvv]

I think his Porsche sounds different that the one of Delecour

It is different:
Dumas Romain - Giraudet Denis (http://ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=18216&d=714799&t=Rallye-Monte-Carlo-2015)
Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 RGT

Delecour François - Savignoni D. (http://ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=18216&d=714327&t=Rallye-Monte-Carlo-2015)
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup RGT

That said he has the newer version of 997 with 4l engine (Delecour has 3.6l I think). I don't know how much that means in real power/torque after the restrictor anyway.

[stefanvv]

It is different:
Dumas Romain - Giraudet Denis (http://ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=18216&d=714799&t=Rallye-Monte-Carlo-2015)
Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 RGT

Delecour François - Savignoni D. (http://ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=18216&d=714327&t=Rallye-Monte-Carlo-2015)
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup RGT

That said he has the newer version of 997 with 4l engine (Delecour has 3.6l I think). I don't know how much that means in real power/torque after the restrictor anyway.

Seems only Delecour is driving the Tuthil Porsche now anyway:
http://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/tuthill-porsche-monte-carlo-rally
Romain Dumas has developed one himself:
http://www.romaindumas.com/en/rd-limited-2

I think last year Dumas was driving Tuthil Porsche, so this must be brand new.

[vino_93]

Dumas has a road car. Only 600 Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 exist.

Delecour has a Cup car, so a car which has done, f.e. the Porsche Supercup a few years ago.

[vino_93]

Seems only Delecour is driving the Tuthil Porsche now anyway:
http://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/tuthill-porsche-monte-carlo-rally
Romain Dumas has developed one himself:
http://www.romaindumas.com/en/rd-limited-2

I think last year Dumas was driving Tuthil Porsche, so this must be brand new.

No Dumas don't drove Tuthill Porsche, he always drives his 997 GT3 RS 4.0.
Tuthill Porsche was driven by Tuthill and Delecour.

[stefanvv]

No Dumas don't drove Tuthill Porsche, he always drives his 997 GT3 RS 4.0.
Tuthill Porsche was driven by Tuthill and Delecour.

Yes, You're right. I don't know why I thought he was driving Tuthil Porsche in Alsace last year, may wrong be info from the forum.

[stefanvv]

Some photos at least:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10525824_10153009344503431_1291644893479190319_n.j pg?oh=f5cd43be262e530e7b7a9aaf21dcbd2e&oe=5568E720&__gda__=1432196703_5ae73fefc4699fe6aceb8116817d243 c
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1902992_10153009344593431_39262984152603472_n.jpg? oh=04f78f7317723a8046c9ccd72dda75e2&oe=5569B915&__gda__=1432895528_db5a359d1e35c4e97e28f77f1f7a68b c
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10940469_10153009391843431_6416311764938091550_n.j pg?oh=e3c7327e907e90b2ab1126f4fee5a791&oe=5567F101&__gda__=1428940567_97d4af64a35b941779c054ca95bb233 b
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10689703_10153009344773431_665365439467475657_n.jp g?oh=8ecb7621df1070576d291c9fe852036a&oe=55590CC6&__gda__=1433098495_5a5f51b6885cfefdc387ca00fea1e57 9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10933871_10153009392538431_6111093386702325931_n.j pg?oh=676757db7559e54cde95a344f503c74c&oe=556E8830&__gda__=1432657958_9afa3b46d2e20c0c723ccc238690a43 1

[N.O.T]

Is the back window of Delecour broken in the second pic ?

[stefanvv]

Some more today's videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oESVgkA5ez4
Dumas' one is sounding better with that bigger engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtRcnL8xT7Q

[stefanvv]

Is the back window of Delecour broken in the second pic ?

It looks like that. Who cares when it has that sound.....

[stefanvv]

nice piece - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8P27dmwDtw

[Jarek Z]

nice piece - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8P27dmwDtw

Duez was best :)

[tommeke_B]

Duez was best :)

Duez is driving for fun, the others want to be efficient... :)

[stefanvv]

This one deserves to be posted here (Delecour @ 3:00) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liTVuWdQZUk

[RAS007]

Congratulations to Francois! 23rd overall and 1st in RGT. Really great to see him driving that Porsche especially in those conditions.

[A FONDO]

Only respect to these guys, Delecour mostly but the other two too for participating with these cars!

[stefanvv]

I'm happy to see that GT class has such a strong start. Monte is definitely difficult event for those cars, but driven by masters can be only joy, even Duez driving just for fun contributed a lot for it. Let's see how it'll progress further.

[christy but]

what rounds are the gt cars doing

[stefanvv]

what rounds are the gt cars doing

Next is barely Ypres:

GEKO Ypres Rally
Rallye Deutschland
Rallye International du Valais
Tour de Corse

[stefanvv]

Porsche special from Monte - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HZ2eKj9N1Y
I would like to see more from Dumas anyway, his is sounding best, and has different approach to these corners.

[AndyRAC]

For a lot of the time, you'd have thought Delecour was the only 911 in the event.

[Jarek Z]

Porsche special from Monte - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HZ2eKj9N1Y

Thanks for sharing Stefan! This is exactly what I was looking for! By the way, what a place to watch the rally! I measured that you can see each car for over 50 seconds from this spot.

Are only drivers with last name starting with the letter 'D' allowed in GT-Cup? :D

[stefanvv]

Are only drivers with last name starting with the letter 'D' allowed in GT-Cup? :D

Good catch:). May be, we'll see

[Jarek Z]

what rounds are the gt cars doing

The GT Cup consists of 5 rounds - 2 belong to WRC, 2 to the European Championship and one is in Switzerland.

Rallye Monte Carlo (WRC)
GEKO Ypres Rally (ERC)
Rallye Deutschland (WRC)
Rallye International du Valais (Swiss championship)
Tour de Corse (ERC)

[stefanvv]

Good catch:). May be, we'll see

I have 1 name with 'D' to add:D, perhaps You'll agree with me - Doberkau from Germany.

[Jarek Z]

I have 1 name with 'D' to add:D, perhaps You'll agree with me - Doberkau from Germany.

Yes, he fits the pattern and qualifies for the cup :D

[stefanvv]

Yes, he fits the pattern and qualifies for the cup :D

He does, but I suspect we'll see another German driver with different letter, not that bad either:D. Time will tell

[AndyRAC]

A current German Porsche driver??? Well I know Timo Bernhard does a bit of Rallying, could it be him? Or maybe Ruben Zeltner??

[stefanvv]

A current German Porsche driver??? Well I know Timo Bernhard does a bit of Rallying, could it be him? Or maybe Ruben Zeltner??

I think Zeltner might have something to do, but probably it is early to say.

[Andre Oliveira]

RGT Cup points?

[CWJ]

No German R-GT cars ready. Only national allowed GT3s so forget about it.
And Zeltner will unfortunately defend his 2014 Championship instead of going abroad.

[mousti]

Delecour already getting a big rival for Ypres. Snijers will convert his 997 GT3 to FIA RGT rules for Ypres.

https://www.facebook.com/TACrally/photos/a.181134701965679.47661.181112608634555/762855913793552/?type=1&theater

[wildboar]

Delecour already getting a big rival for Ypres. Snijers will convert his 997 GT3 to FIA RGT rules for Ypres.


Very nice! I hope the RGT Cup really becomes a championship for the top European GT rally drivers.

[stefanvv]

Apparently Duez is the fans favourite - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLNJiBHksAE

[mousti]

Seems that an Aston Martin drove last weekend at Arctic Rally?

[tommeke_B]

According to Timothy Van Parijs (GT3 driver since 2006) it takes some 8000 euros just to get the paperwork sorted out with FIA, after that you can start "downgrading" your GT car according to FIA rules. Just like robbery... So it's very likely he won't drive in Ypres, same applies for Jochen Claerhout, they worked out a program together. If their cars are allowed in Rallye du Valais (they normally are, since there are no ERC rules), they will participate there in stead... :) There are quite some GT-cars in Belgium (997 GT3 of BMA, 997 GT3 of Viaene, 997 GT3 of Claerhout, 997 and 996 GT3 of Vanparijs, 997 GT3 of Snijers, 997 GT3 of Lejeune, 996 GT3 of Debyser, 996 GT3 of Schmelcher and the one Duez drove in Monte), but I'm afraid that except for Snijers it's likely we won't see any Belgian GT cars in Ypres...

[mousti]

Yep don't expect them either there, he already told me last year it's not worth the money to do that. Because it is indeed downgrading the car what means next BRC rally u need to change it all back. I prefer to see them in full spec with raw sound then we see them sometimes on the international scene. Btw there will come another 996 GT3 in the BRC with Robby Moers.

[stefanvv]

Seems that an Aston Martin drove last weekend at Arctic Rally?

Yes, Kari Mäkelä has finished 2nd in his class with that car. The winner is Ilkka Manninen with Citroën Xsara 2 VTS 2.0L.
Of course this is curious to be seen on a video.

[wildboar]

Seems that an Aston Martin drove last weekend at Arctic Rally?

That would be this one here: http://www.mat.fi/gallery/85 (go to picture #135 for the latest photos from the Arctic Rally).

[wildboar]

Here is an interesting article about the Aston Martin R-GT: http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/maniacs-turn-aston-martin-v8-vantage-into-a-rally-car-1681820324

Looks like they already obtained the FIA passport. So we will hopefully see it soon in a FIA rally. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to go through all the troubles to get a passport.

[mousti]

Porsche of Snijers in his new livery

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10626378_763283827084094_2769901907296304304_o.jpg

Snijers declared on our facebook page, that he is considering to do Deutschland Rally too.

[stefanvv]

Arctic Lapland Rally & Aston Martin V8 @2:56 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHYFteRGils
The sound is great. The corner not so much.

[wildboar]

Have we seen this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKsDHvLP-gw
Rallye Monte Carlo 2015 Best of Porsche pure sound(HD)

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

And it has a flappy paddle shift..

[Sulland]

Has anyone tried to get a Cayman approved?
should think it is a bit more nimble than the 911, or it it too short?

[mousti]

We had a Cayman in some Belgian Rallies, some years ago. The 911 was faster and had better sound.

[Mirek]

Properly built Cayman shall be faster than 911 for the reason that it has much better weight distribution.

[lewalcindor]

Properly built Cayman shall be faster than 911 for the reason that it has much better weight distribution.

Theoretically, yes. That said, I haven't heard of many racing series featuring Caymans/Boxsters, while private racing 911s are well documented and are very well supported by Porsche. It would therefore easier to acquire racing-specific parts for racing 911s than it would be for Caymans, no?

So logistically, I can see a "properly built Cayman" being more difficult to come by than a modified 911 GT3 Cup.

But you're definitely correct about the weight distribution, which is the reason why RUF uses a Cayman as the chassis basis for their top-of-the-line CTR 3 rather than the 911.

[Mirek]

That's true what You say. I believe it's Porsche itself who keeps Cayman artificially "under" 911 level because of the almost legendary status of 911.

[Jarek Z]

Some attempts with Porsche Cayman were also made in Italy, but it was before the new R-GT rules were introduced by the FIA.
Here's Aldo Calabrini and Carlo Verdelli on the stages of Rally di Como 2007:

http://www.megamodo.com/images/yokohama/mm_Calabrini.jpg

And here's Massimo Pigoli and Max Chiapponi on the stages of Trofeo ACI Como 2007:

http://www.alquati.it/F392.jpg

[tommeke_B]

Like mousti mentioned it has been driving in Belgium (and small French events) as well.

Here a photo of a fast driver, Pascal Gaban. He did Rallye de Wallonie twice with it, in 2010 and 2011. Pitty there was no real competition for him when he was driving it, it was spectacular to see him with it on the stages. The car itself isn't that interesting IMO, like Mirek said they keep the Cayman below the 911 in terms of prestations. The "handicap" of the engine is too big for the car to be competitive, at least here in Belgium with fast stages that have many junctions followed by long straights... Also, if I remember correctly, the Cayman didn't have the wide rear tyres like the GT3 has, which was another disadvantage.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/133842_184771371534757_3591226_o.jpg
Photo of Pascal Gaban in 2010, drifting through a fast left corner on a gravel section. :)

[stefanvv]

That's a beauty. Pity the engine isn't that powerful.

[Jack4688`]

Could an R-GT version be created using the upcoming Cayman GT4 as a base?

[Mirek]

Yes, for sure.

[wildboar]

That's a beauty. Pity the engine isn't that powerful.

I wonder if it would even make a difference for an R-GT? When the engine is less powerful, then the restrictor can be larger. Maybe it is even an advantage then, as the engine could work closer to its optimum?

[Mirek]

Good question. It can be interesting to see how all the pros and cons go against each other. Maybe somebody can have some erudite answer. Anyway don't forget that Cayman with smaller engine is definitely lighter than 911 and therefore would not be allowed same power.

I believe that even with smaller power the lighter and much better balanced Cayman shall be better if it is built from similar components. However I think that it's the problem. R-GTs are basically near stock-cars and while GT3 is a half-racing machine Cayman is not. Maybe the new GT4 will change it.

[stefanvv]

I wonder if it would even make a difference for an R-GT? When the engine is less powerful, then the restrictor can be larger. Maybe it is even an advantage then, as the engine could work closer to its optimum?

Interesting question indeed. I'm not that familiar in this part of the technics, but Your assumption seems reasonable. Always should be better the engine to work as close to it's manufactured parameters and not "choke" it with restrictor stuff, probably the engine would be more "healthy", it's servicing easier and cheaper. Just assumptions anyway.

[OldF]

Maybe the last year introduced 3436 cm3 340 hp Cayman would be suitable for R-GT. The min. weight for cars with cylinder volumes between 3100 cm3 to 4000 cm3 is 1200 kg and if the weight/power ratio is 3,4 kg/hp, the power at min weight would be 353 hp. The weight of the Cayman is 1345 kg. I don’t know if it’s possible to take off 145 kg to get down to the min weight but I think it’s possible to gain more power with mapping. And as wildboar said the Cayman would work closer to the revs what it’s designed for.

In the video that was posted earlier, Chris Harris says (at 5:35) that the Tuthill Porsche has 350 hp with a 39 mm restrictor (if my old ears heard it correctly).

Chris Harris driving the Tuthill 997 RGT, with a short interview with Richard Tuthill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7afNZsAvqI


Cayman

http://www.porsche.com/international/models/cayman/cayman-gts/featuresandspecs/

or

2014 Porsche Cayman GTS
How long? 4404 mm
How heavy? 1345 kg
What size engine? 3.4 litre, 3436 cm3
How many cylinders? 6, Straight
How much power?
340 PS / 335 bhp / 250 kW @ 7400 rpm
How much torque?
380 Nm / 280 ft.lb / 38.8 kgm @ 4750-5800 rpm
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=365167

3,8 l & 4,0 l 997

2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 997
How long? 4460 mm
How heavy? 1435 kg
What size engine? 4 litre, 3996 cm3
How many cylinders? 6, flat
How much power?
500 PS / 493 bhp / 368 kW @ 8250 rpm
How much torque?
460 Nm / 339 ft.lb / 46.9 kgm @ 5750 rpm
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=241164

2010 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Coupé 997
How long? 4435 mm
How heavy? 1420 kg
What size engine? 3.8 litre, 3800 cm3
How many cylinders? 6, Flat
How much power?
408 PS / 402 bhp / 300 kW @ 7300 rpm
How much torque?
420 Nm / 310 ft.lb / 42.8 kgm @ 4200-5600 rpm
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=220099

[tommeke_B]

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10344154_1013742661970953_6822256237176208098_o.jp g

Had a look at Snijers GT3 today. It's fitted with a 3.6 Cup engine, and I'm not sure if those can drive in FIA RGT? Still some changes to be made before first event of the season, nothing big. Really looking forward to see this car in action, especially because it's driven by the best possible GT driver in Belgium... :)

[CWJ]

Belgian GT and FIA RGT is two pair of shoes. You need at least work to the rollcage, the doors and the engine.

[tommeke_B]

Belgian GT and FIA RGT is two pair of shoes. You need at least work to the rollcage, the doors and the engine.

Rollcage is FIA homologated, doors are OK as well, for the engine we'll see... The car has never competed in Belgium yet and was built to German regulations.

[OldF]

I found this article about the Tuthill R-GT project.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/web/data/porsche-rgt-racecar-eng-nov-15.pdf

This article is from Racecar-engineering November 2014 issue.

Some highlights from the article.

“It weighted 1307 kg on the M-Sport’s scale before the rally (Germany), without driver and co-driver”

“The best weight/power ratio the team calculates it can achieve is 4,1 kg/bhp.”

“Until that Friday, when an e-mail announced that the restrictor size was to be 36 mm. Surprised, Moore ‘lathed’ one up in a Trier machine shop, fitted it to the engine, whose Bosch engine ECU crunched car weight and acceleration figures through its maths channel after the car was tested and came up with a fairly accurate estimate of 325 bhp (329,5 PS).”

To have the weight ratio of 3,4 kg/PS, the power should be 384 PS (379 bhp). In the video Chris Harris said that the restrictor size is 39 mm and power 350 hp (probably bhp). Calculating with the power of 329,5 PS with a 36 mm restrictor to a restrictor diameter of 39 mm, the power would be 387 PS (381 bhp). Which one is correct, 350 bhp or 379 bhp? Maybe with a NA engine the restrictor size is not that straight forward.

[Lundefaret]

Having a rear engined rear wheel drive car is actually an advantage, not a disadvantage, for a rally car.
With a rear wheel drive car with a surtain power output the challenge will quickly become how to get the rear tires gripping, transforming the force of the engine to force of movement in the car.
Having weight over the driven wheels is off cource important, either physical weight or theoretical weight (down force).
You do not want a heavy car, just to produce a high weight on the driven wheels, but You want a light car with a weight distribution over the driven wheels.

Porsche have made a mid engined rally car earlier, it was the Porsche 914/6. But it did not have the same grip as the 911, and had difficult handling. (It also made the 904)

Its the same story with front wheel drive cars. The SAAB V4 had a big advantage with the engine position in front of the front driven wheels, giving very good traction. This is why the SAAB could outpace much stronger rear wheel drive competition on loose surfaces.

We see the same now with Nissans mainly front wheel driven LM P1-car, designed by the brilliant Ben Bowlby.

The GT-class can become great in my opinion, tough I think that the FIA should allow larger restrictors.

[mousti]

Had a look at Snijers GT3 today. It's fitted with a 3.6 Cup engine, and I'm not sure if those can drive in FIA RGT? Still some changes to be made before first event of the season, nothing big. Really looking forward to see this car in action, especially because it's driven by the best possible GT driver in Belgium... :)
Probably around the same power than his previous Porsche of BMA also a 3.6 engine (http://www.bma-autosport.com/site/nos_voitures-porsche_911_gt3_rally-488-999-495-2303-fr.html) :) But according to the videos of German Rallies the Porsche has not the same sound like the one of BMA because different exhaust I think. Hope they change it, or already did :p

[tommeke_B]

The engine isn't the same as when Gengler was driving it... ;)

[mousti]

Aha good ;p. Cant wait to see him on the stages at Haspengouw rally!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[cardy]

does the cayman GT4 qualify ?? http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/porsche-cayman-gt4-revealed-2015-02-03

[stefanvv]

does the cayman GT4 qualify ?? http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/porsche-cayman-gt4-revealed-2015-02-03

It seems so. Hopefully someone will take it and we'll see how better it could be than 997 GT3.

[tommeke_B]

Next week Kevin Abbring will drive a small Dutch event (around circuit of Zandvoort) with a Porsche 997 GT3 (car of Claerhout: http://rally-image.be/foto/0413/images/045.jpg). Results aren't that important in this case but they shall be found here: http://www.rallytiming.nl

[nafpaktos]

I hope we'll see videos from that event.

[EightGear]

No need to worry about that, there will be plenty.

It's not really that special though, one stage is fully on a part of the circuit. The other stage is more interesting, with quite a bit of gravel through the dunes of the North Sea. Both stages will be run 3 times.

Look for 'Circuit short rally' on YouTube for impressions.

[nafpaktos]

Aaaaa zandvoort circuit.Very beaytiful and quiet city,a chance for a nice excursion. In 2010 i visited the city and the circuit(that day testing was taking place)

[HaCo]

Aaaaa zandvoort circuit.Very beaytiful and quiet city,a chance for a nice excursion. In 2010 i visited the city and the circuit(that day testing was taking place)


Just make sure you take enough change with you, since you need it for parking!

[Ounin]

Funny that Kevin Abbring draws so much attention hope it will be very crowded in Zandvoort, good for rally PR in The Netherlands, he drives the 997 Porsche of Croky Racing which is normally driven by Jochen Claerhout. In Belgium some people remember Kevin driving a historics Porsche in 2014 in Rallysprint Moorslede very well; with a MAS-Racing Porsche 911 he blew the histories field away.

[wildboar]

Since we still have to wait a few more months for the next round of the R-GT Cup at Ypres, here at least a new video with Monte Carlo RGT highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHyepRGwIzY

Also, Tuthill were testing their 997 RGT in Northern Ireland recently. Now they are looking for a driver to do the Circuit of Ireland with it. Here two videos from the tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeO6msuKCUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMrsNLGdcYc

[EightGear]

Abbring won all 6 stages in Zandvoort.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/eed7ed7be0f30db6bef687c37b3a373a.jpg

[nafpaktos]

From the same rally

http://s21.postimg.org/jimjz67ef/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
screen capture freeware (http://postimage.org/app.php)

[MartijnS]

Yes, Hans Weijs bought a few trailers from VW :)

[nafpaktos]

A beautiful one!

http://s16.postimg.org/lb95pis3p/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pics (http://postimage.org/)

[mousti]

http://youtu.be/iAqDVCTm_7c

Speedtrap of Kevin Abbring with Porsche

[EightGear]

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads8/54f4a50579346/54f4a5056f708-B_C5VjCW8AMNW0I.jpg

[Mirek]

New Cayman GT4 is out. Finally with 3.8 NA engine, 385 Hp.

Some photos
http://www.auto.cz/porsche-cayman-gt4-prvni-staticke-dojmy-86096

http://img.auto.cz/news/img/galleries/2015-10/pocy20_54f7202a15e2b.jpg

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I guess we'll need Cayman R-GT4..

[Sulland]

How many of these were made?
Any of them still in use?

[Mirek]

How many of these were made?
Any of them still in use?

It was never homologated. it started on Madeira with a conditional homologation which was never finished.

[wildboar]

It was never homologated. it started on Madeira with a conditional homologation which was never finished.

Has it ever become known, why the project was discontinued? They put so much effort and also publicity into this. Then they drove 3 stages or so on Madeira and then - nothing more. I am not aware of any explanation as to why they abandoned the projet.

[Mirek]

I have no idea.

[liposh]

The owner and management of Lotus changed those days (after the mMadeira) and that was end of this project...which is sad because car with 3,5L engine and with low pressure turbo sounds as great idea to me. And moreover the car is really beautiful.