WRC future

[T16]

There's been so many last stage lead position changes during 2019 alone. There might have been rallies where Tänak was leading from the first day to the end but even then you still had to be on the edge of your seat to see if the car would last to the finish. And it probably was more predictable before 2017 when it was just Ogier or Loeb dominating rallies from the beginning to the end. Not to mention the dominating eras of Audi and Lancia.

You guys are now mixing up the car formats and event formats. So the cars need to be made cheaper...but the events more expensive? The only way I could see that the events would be made longer is to reduce the number of them. I proposed this on my blog and asked some people who actually organize rallies and they gave a big no. https://itgetsfasternow.com/2020/06/...in-three-days/



This is as much of a guess as proposing that rallies could gain more audience if they were run on only stadium stages and decided in one day, because hey, F1 is still more popular!. I want some data to back your opinion. And saying "it was better in the 80's" doesn't cut it, the world has changed.

I still want to hear what is the benefit of increasing the endurance element? We have Rally Raids which have that element, how popular are they?

Remember bevore COVID-19 there was this thing called Global Warming and many car manufacturers seemed to be in dire straits? There simply is less money to spend in motorsport and that's why there's no more teams competing.

Going to hybrids is a step onto the correct path, we need to have rallying have some way to market their greener models, which is what they sell now, even though the cars aren't going to be less ecological with the 2022 rules. But for car manufacturers, it's a big thing.

Car changes needed / event changes needed.

I didn’t nail my flag to the mast and say I’m certain that longer events are the answer.... it’s just a thought.


I’m saying what we have now isn’t.

[djip]

Car changes needed / event changes needed.

I didn’t nail my flag to the mast and say I’m certain that longer events are the answer.... it’s just a thought.


I’m saying what we have now isn’t.

What about ... shorter events ? The 3 days format with 9-12 and 2-5 driving is ridiculous - sounds more like a government employee's job than sports. So is the sunday which is pretty much useless in every rally result-wise. This was made for TV way back then (late 90's) - Nowadays is the age of internet (aka Rally-Live), who cares of a sunday at noon ending ?

Way back then, the tour of corsica was a 24hours events and it was by no means an easy walkover. 1000 Lakes rally was also a 2 days affair and nobody seemd to think it was a walk in the park.

Wouldn't money be saved by shaving of 1 day ? and since stages are mostly the same year after year, coudn't recce be also shortened, at least for the top teams that have been coming to these stages year after year ?

What about the idea of dropping off shakedown ? I now teams would hate it, but we, as fan, may enjoy a bit of unpredictability in the result by having a few surprises if some team would come up with the wrong set-up . One of the big issues of rallyes today is that it is always the same drivers that win - not as bad as F1 but close...

And last bnut not least since i am seldom logged into the forum (but reading everyone's posts vivivdely), can't we get rid of Rally2 (super rally) ? I know manufacturers want exposure for their cars, but this aint' the spirit of rallying. Rallying is about speed on normal road (for which people can easily materialize how incredible these drivers are) but also has the notion of endurance built into it. Not anymore 60's style where drivers would seldom sleep for 4 days, but at least if you break your car, you're out, as simple as that. This may sound a bit oldies (which i am), but if we lose this (and we are close to), we lose the whole perception of rallying for the fan/people - we may as well go rallycross.

[AnttiL]

What about the idea of dropping off shakedown ? I now teams would hate it, but we, as fan, may enjoy a bit of unpredictability in the result by having a few surprises if some team would come up with the wrong set-up . One of the big issues of rallyes today is that it is always the same drivers that win - not as bad as F1 but close...

And last bnut not least since i am seldom logged into the forum (but reading everyone's posts vivivdely), can't we get rid of Rally2 (super rally) ? I know manufacturers want exposure for their cars, but this aint' the spirit of rallying. Rallying is about speed on normal road (for which people can easily materialize how incredible these drivers are) but also has the notion of endurance built into it. Not anymore 60's style where drivers would seldom sleep for 4 days, but at least if you break your car, you're out, as simple as that. This may sound a bit oldies (which i am), but if we lose this (and we are close to), we lose the whole perception of rallying for the fan/people - we may as well go rallycross.

Dropping the shakedown wouldn't help the fact that some drivers are better than others. If something, it would just increase the gap because the best drivers also adapt best if the car is not 100% as they want it.

I agree that Rally2 was a weird concept to accept when it was introduced. But it would be cruel for spectators on the last day of the rally seeing only 2-3 top cars. Power stages would also be boring to watch.

How do you explain the success of professional cycling? It does everything that rallying once did, which we're told no longer works as a format...

Do you mean Tour de France and the likes? It's a very different format than rallying. All the bikes ride at the same time and the first bike is leading the section. It's logical to follow for a casual viewer and doesn't take much time for roads to be closed. Also, even the most expensive road bike sold in the world probably costs only the same as a front bumper of a WRC car.

Cycling world also has its equivalent of rallying, the MTB enduro. There's special stages and liaisons, racing only against the clock. But it's not a popular format...

[wyler]

Do you mean Tour de France and the likes? It's a very different format than rallying. All the bikes ride at the same time and the first bike is leading the event. It's logical to follow for a casual viewer and doesn't take much time for roads to be closed. Also, even the most expensive road bike sold in the world probably costs only the same as a front bumper of a WRC car.

Cycling world also has its equivalent of rallying, the MTB enduro. There's special stages and liaisons, racing only against the clock. But it's not a popular format...

And mainly is perfect for tv. people can follow only the finish of every stage more or less same time every day, instantly know the winner, and the drama always happens near the finish, mountains are on route to being televised, and almost nothing happens till the end of the stage. following 30mins is enough to get the best easily also as a casual viewer.
on the events side, to spectate live you can see almost everything in 30min, if u don't go near the end of the stage for the show. they use loads of main road and town and village crossing. they gather lots of bystanders just being at home/work or near enough to spend there a couple of hours, not a day and travel a lot. for casual/general fans there's a lot of things happening on the road just before the race but not waiting too much and often also unrelated (car, girls, music). then for hardcore fan they can gather a lot of people near and on the finish line, offering easily food drink gadgets and entertainment along.
also general fans don't have to follow more than one day

[the sniper]

Do you mean Tour de France and the likes? It's a very different format than rallying. All the bikes ride at the same time and the first bike is leading the event. It's logical to follow for a casual viewer and doesn't take much time for roads to be closed. Also, even the most expensive road bike sold in the world probably costs only the same as a front bumper of a WRC car.

Cycling world also has its equivalent of rallying, the MTB enduro. There's special stages and liaisons, racing only against the clock. But it's not a popular format...

But we're led to believe that WRC rallies are too long, people's attention spans are too short nowadays to follow such an event... Yet many tens, even hundreds of thousands of people make the effort to line the routes of major tours to catch just a brief glimpse of these events. Sound familiar? The stages last and are broadcast for hours, for many hours of which very little is happening. Some events are one long day, the Grand Tours go on for WEEKS!

Can you imagine major cycling stage races being as popular as they are now had their formats been standardised and diminished in scope to the extent that most rallies have?

[AnttiL]

But we're led to believe that WRC rallies are too long, people's attention spans are too short nowadays to follow such an event... Yet many tens, even hundreds of thousands of people make the effort to line the routes of major tours to catch just a brief glimpse of these events. Sound familiar? The stages last and are broadcast for hours, for many hours of which very little is happening. Some events are one long day, the Grand Tours go on for WEEKS!

I'm pretty sure rallies would be made longer if someone saw it as an investment worth the return. Also when you talk about cycling, think about how "cheap" it is for an athlete to run for one day longer, compared to a rally driver. Week-long rallies would sure mean the end of privateers.

And mainly is perfect for tv. people can follow only the finish of every stage more or less same time every day, instantly know the winner, and the drama always happens near the finish, mountains are on route to being televised, and almost nothing happens till the end of the stage. following 30mins is enough to get the best easily also as a casual viewer.
on the events side, to spectate live you can see almost everything in 30min, if u don't go near the end of the stage for the show.

Maybe we should have embraced Jost Capito's suggestion having the power stage decide positions to add more television viewers? But in addition, do it at the end of every day?

Again, you could also play the F1 argument here and say rallies would become popular if they were run in two hours on Sunday afternoon.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a route enthusiast, I would love the rallies to be longer, but I know that in practice it's not possible today. (I also wouldn't definitely want Jost Capito's idea or a F1 format rally.)

[wyler]

But we're led to believe that WRC rallies are too long, people's attention spans are too short nowadays to follow such an event... Yet many tens, even hundreds of thousands of people make the effort to line the routes of major tours to catch just a brief glimpse of these events. Sound familiar? The stages last and are broadcast for hours, for many hours of which very little is happening. Some events are one long day, the Grand Tours go on for WEEKS!

Can you imagine major cycling stage races being as popular as they are now had their formats been standardised and diminished in scope to the extent that most rallies have?

as i wrote just above, cycling is standardized! take the vuelta, giro, and tour. starts same hours, finishes every day around 5 o'clock. even mountain stage are more or less same days in the 3 week span... and has plenty of difference from rally. yes, it has stages (but 1 per day). yes hardcore fan goes in the mountains and wait for hours but that's all. if you tune in 30 min at the stage end u can see everything important and know immediately who won the day. if you have 30 rally car u have to wait 1hr to know who won a stage. in the meantime is possible another stage is already running. big number of people is made by bystanders when passing in village and town. people can attend from home garden (yes sometimes rally too, but not comparable). and so on, told before. cycling is more marketable tv wise, 'cause is very much simpler compared to rally.
another fundamental thing: in cycling you can see athletes!!! (i mean their faces)

[wyler]

Maybe we should have embraced Jost Capito's suggestion having the power stage decide positions to add more television viewers? But in addition, do it at the end of every day?

Again, you could also play the F1 argument here and say rallies would become popular if they were run in two hours on Sunday afternoon.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a route enthusiast, I would love the rallies to be longer, but I know that in practice it's not possible today. (I also wouldn't definitely want Jost Capito's idea or a F1 format rally.)

No way! i hated Capito's idea, but was the right direction of thinking long term.
i i'm not proposing a solution. i was just analyzing how the market works and what it asks to promoters.
all live is disrupting in that sense. completely new and opposite direction. it's struggling because of money it needs to work, but for fans is great and it has potential to grow if promoter can turn casuals into fans. that's the point. rally needs a catchy live format for casual fans to sell to big tv network. that's why they try so hard with power stage...also recap and highlights have to be improved to gain audience, prime time spaces and so on. rally needs a clear long term strategy in communicating itself, something i don't see that much in recent promoter works. let's see with the new boss!
route can be longer while events shorter- they easily can add daily stages, opposite of this is the need of manus to have cars and driver in service park, where they mount their circus tent, give gadget, connect people to social media, and most important host sponsors showing them they can reach a lot of people, possible in the middle of a city.
I still think there's a way to converge fans and market, longer route and a competition better format, and marketing needs. it just take time and trials (and a bit of flexibility) to find the right recipe. i.e: a big sunday afternoon service park event (even not sport related) could be a good idea.