Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2014

[dimviii]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113305

[stefanvv]

Don't struggle too much, Ogier is the only driver who actually "drives" the car, not being driven by it

BTW Loeb's and Ogier's driving styles are completely different, Loeb's lines are much more "smooth", while Ogier's are quite "rough".

Here some videos from generous me (without any beers) (on the last one you can notice what I mean at the post begin):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EJ9fWiUouU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4NmTs4FHdk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcIAGIsdzuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m66_5k5ozs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDI1gM3VS_k

[denkimi]

Don't struggle too much, Ogier is the only driver who actually "drives" the car, not being driven by it

BTW Loeb's and Ogier's driving styles are completely different, Loeb's lines are much more "smooth", while Ogier's are quite "rough".

ogier has several "hot moments" in almost every rally. loeb had those rarely.

based on the footage i have seen ogier was very lucky at least 3 times in monte, ran out of luck in sweden and got lucky at least once in mexico.

[N.O.T]

ogier has several "hot moments" in almost every rally. loeb had those rarely.

based on the footage i have seen ogier was very lucky at least 3 times in monte, ran out of luck in sweden and got lucky at least once in mexico.

i think every driver has a couple of lucky moments in every rally...it is impossible to try and be fast without close moments through 300kms for special stages.

[stefanvv]

I think this rally says a lot about why it will be so easy for Ogier to clinch yet another title.

Sordo complained about understeering, on the very same stages he did maybe his best performances ever in the WRC. Maybe he should conclude that his mental image of what is needed to go fast and safe in the WRC is wrong, and that this "understeering" car forced him to drive more corectly?

Neuville has a clearer picture of what is needed, and showed this with some big steps in the right direction at Ford, but will have to keep a very clear head to keep on the right track during not only the development of him self as a driver, but also during the development of the car. Neuville would be the perfect Citroën driver, but the question is if his picture is clear enough to take the Hyundai development in the right direction - time will show.

Hirvonen says between the lines that it is impossible to go faster with the Ford. That would be the same as to say that he would have won if he was in a Volkswagen and Ogier in a Ford. Complete nonsense. Ogier would have won in a Ford or a Citroën. By the way, maybe some of these drivers should start to think about why the fastest drivers (Loeb and Ogier) have better tires (less wear) at the end of the stages than the slower drivers? Is it only the car? Only the set up? Or can it actually be that the driver has something to do with it?
Reading up on the laws of physics can be a good start.

- Tanak shows again that his speed is not sustainable, though a great speed it is.
- Meeke (a very likable guy I have had the pleassure to spend some time with) shows the same, tough at a slower pace at this particular event.
- Latvala is back in bad habits. Not very surprising if you have seen inboard from Mexico. At "stage end" Latvala says that he could push more, but at the same stage he has had several near misses. He can not be aware of what a near miss is, and how often he is close to puncturing, knocking of wheels or even rolling out.
You cant have a shrink telling you what you should improve in your driving style.

Mads Østberg is trying to drive "more like Loeb", the question is how clear a picture he and the team has of exactly how Loeb drove? Citroën was unable to replicate it with Hirvonen. I dont know if this was up to the stubborness of Hirvonen, or lack of driving knowledge of driving technique whitin the team?

Andreas Mikkelsen is maybe the fastest driver in raw speed in the WRC, but currently lacks the ability to drive close enough to his maximim speed on a complete event to be able to challenge for victories.
When he tries to go fast he goes off, and when he backs of to go steady he is sudenly behind Prokop (the 10 minute guy). This is a variable of speed of several seconds pr kilometer, and is a tell tale of his lack of awarness of what he does right, and what he does wrong, both regarding driving technique and pace notes.
When asked by Jost Capito if he went too fast in Mexico, and if that was the reasons for the offs, he answered "no". Hmmm...? What could it be then?
Seeing the inboard one can only conclude that driving that fast with those simple pace notes is a very high risk indeed.

It seams that it is difficult to understand that the goal in rallying is to have the highest sustainable speed, not the highest maximum speed. You should go trough a stage with no more risk of going off the road then when you go to work. The sport with the maximum speed is called hill climbing, rallying is "chess at 200 km/h".

I like Ogier, and I like the fact that a guy like him exists after Loeb, so the drivers dont forget that there is another way of doing things. He stretches the bar, but sadly out of reach of everybody else...

I actually wonder what Ogier thinks about this. If he goes to bed each night reading another chapter in the Black Book he recieved from Loeb, and goes to sleep with a smile on his face safely aware of the fact that the only other person in the world aware of this "secret" driving technique called "Nose End First" have switched to circuit racing, and will never again be back to challenge him.
Then falling to sleep dreaming happy dreams of easy tasks like stealing candy from little children, or winning rounds in the WRC championship?

Maybe it is time for the other drivers to wake up?

Interesting post, but I disagree with some things:
Sordo has complained about indersteering - fine, but that's matter of setup of the car, not the car itself. He is very fast driver on asphalt, probably now is his last chance to prove himself at gravel too. I'm impressed with his performance at Portugal.

Neuville - hmm, promising driver for sure, he had his chance with Citroen if You don't remember and crashed a lot, yes, only his first year, but he said himself he is much more comfortable to drive Ford. I don't know how good is to develop a car to be honest, that's why Hyunday has number of drivers to do that job. Neuville is just their N1 driver for this season.

I followed the Rally closely, and the only problem Hirvonen had issue about is worn tyres, not that he can't go faster with Ford - he can't go faster with any other car. He had bever been good with saving his tyres, that's for sure.

AFAIK Tanak had some damage to the car while ge gone off. No excuses for Mexico though. Impressive speed this year though and probably he learned from his past mistakes, at least seem so from spectator point of view.

Latvala - well, the best of the rest. Its not bad habbit here, he had understeering issues AFAIK with different tyres on both sides of the car. I see some progress from him this year, but still some work to do with getting use to it.

Citroen did not try to replicate anything with Hirvonen, he was fast enough 12' on some events, it is just his limit. They said he tried to adapt to the car as found it more difficult to drive than Ford AFAIR, but I think that was just dust in people's eyes. He hadn't been knocked out by Loeb 12', it was the next year when Ogier was unreachable.

Mikkelsen is mistery for me - he probably believed himself too much after Sweden and tried to do the impossible in Mexico. Now seem to be "mentored" by the team, at least 1st day seemed so.

"Rallying is chess at 200 km/h" - definitelly not. In chess you can see the moves of your opponet, that looks more like circuit racing for me. Well now driver's can watch in some degree the splits of their competition, but that has nothing to do with original idea of Rallying. In Rallying the only "enemy" you have is the TIME. So original Rallying is actually about maximum speed you can achieve.

I have no idea what Black Book is TBH. What Ogier things about this - well he thinks he deserved it long time ago when Loeb was still competing, no regrets I suppose. Ogier's driving style comparing to Loeb I commented on my previous post, it has nothing to do with circuits, but you're right about the laws of Physics - they are Universal, its all about keeping the right balance on the road to achieve maximum momentum.

I don't thing the other drivers can do much about it, its just the way it is.

[stefanvv]

based on the footage i have seen ogier was very lucky at least 3 times in monte

Sure, trying to achieve the impossible and compensate the huge disadvantage after 1st day. With some more risks, the impossible appeared possible, when you risk, there is a chance for a flaw, especially at Monte - he was fortunate too - no flaw happened. BTW he compensated lot of disadvantage on France last year too, but that was different beer, because it was not Monte with its unpredictible conditions.

[lewalcindor]

"Rallying is chess at 200 km/h" - definitelly not. In chess you can see the moves of your opponet, that looks more like circuit racing for me. Well now driver's can watch in some degree the splits of their competition, but that has nothing to do with original idea of Rallying. In Rallying the only "enemy" you have is the TIME. So original Rallying is actually about maximum speed you can achieve.

I think you're taking it too literally. No, rally drivers can't physically see what the other drivers are doing like you can in circuit racing (the nearby other drivers, anyway). But the drivers can still have a good idea of what their opponents are doing through the splits, through the info that his team relays via radio, and through background info on their opponents' strengths and tendencies. You're still "seeing" what the other drivers are doing and thinking about (like when they are about to go on the attack, for example).

And though rallying (and all auto racing, let's be honest) is theoretically about driving as fast as possible and getting your best time, the drivers clearly can't go on maximum attack all the time. You mentioned one reason yourself: tire management. Mikko Hirvonen could very well be as fast as Ogier or Loeb if tire management were not an issue. But it is, so his driving style tends to wear down on the tires before they can be changed at service.

Another factor is each driver's specific endurance level, that is, how long he can sustain driving at his maximum ability. One driver may a bit slower than another driver at their respective maximum, but if the first driver is able to sustain his attack longer than the other driver, he can use that to his advantage. If the two drivers are separated by just a few seconds, the first driver can put more pressure on the second driver by driving to his maximum, which then forces the second driver is to go close to his maximum to keep up (or keep his lead). But after a while, the first driver is still driving fine at his maximum, but the second driver starts to make a few mistakes here and there because he's starting to lose concentration. Eventually, the second driver may make a big mistake and crash or spin out. When the first driver hears of the crash over the radio, he can then dial back his driving to a safer and more sustainable level.

Likewise, the drivers' individual abilities on different surfaces plays into the team and driver choosing when to attack, and when to "cruise" and try to limit mistakes.

Another factor is the driver's position in a rally. If the leader has a decent lead, he will try to preserve that lead for the win, and that usually means "cruising" by driving at a fast enough speed to maintain the lead, but not so fast as as to increase the risk of making a mistake. If the driver in second is within striking distance to the leader, he will then attempt to attack when he can while trying to limit his mistakes when he can. But if the leader has too large of a lead to overcome, then the second place driver will also "cruise" and try to maintain his pace for a second place finish.

And finally, there's championship points. If every rally was a race by itself with no effect on an overall championship, then the drivers should go all out and drive to their maximum abilities (within reason). But as it is, winning a rally is a nice prize, but the drivers and teams are mostly fighting for points to earn the bigger prize at the end. Going all out may allow you to win and earn the most points for a particular rally, but it may also lead to a crash and retirement and net you zero points. So in essence, the points race is another chess game that's being played over the course of a season.

So call it a chess game or whatever you would like (I would call it a game of risk management), but rally drivers and teams are indeed playing it. And the same goes for any auto racing type that's not an outright sprint. There's a reason that circuit drivers don't put up the same lap times during a race as they do in qualifying or time attacks, and it's not just because there are other cars on the track.

[litifeta]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We are all armchair experts ... let's not forget that. From the onboards I have seen this year I would say Mikko is very fast, and I could not see a moment where he could have gained an extra tenth. TN seems to me to have a style of driving from the onboards similar to the way Loeb drove. And watching the onboards from FAFE I could see how Ogier is so much faster. He rarely takes his foot off the accelerator. He even accelerates between gears downshifting. With Sordo there was a noticeable gap between his foot off the accelerator, and the next boost. With Ogier, he does not lose much speed at all. He uses the power and compression to steer and drift the car much better.

[Jerra]

http://nowwatchtvlive.com/2013/01/rt...l-online-free/

[Andre Oliveira]

Sordo out before stage.