How good is Vettel?

[i_max2k2]

Button put Vettel off the track on a run off area which had a 50 metre allowance to the barrier and carried no disadvantage. In fact Vettel was punished in that incident for using the run off to pass. Many cars go wide there due to the nature of the corner so it's a little difficult to putting someone on the grass. A better example would be Alonso and Vettel and their incidents at monza where they both forced the other onto grass and gravel at higher speeds. Schumacher was within his rights to do what he did with Montoya, but it was still dirty. Then again Michael enjoyed his reputation with such things so that's fine. I'm not in uproar over it, just offering my opinion on an old incident.

Agreed, I remember one of his post race lines, where he said, "I'm not here to give out presents", I think a lot of people hated how he went across at the beginning of the race, but that has been happening for a quite a while I think, and now days as well, its just seems the best way to defend your pole position.

But back on the topic, I was looking forward to see Vettel's lap in China Quali, to see how much can he push a slower Red Bull and where he lands up.. but oh well.

[webberf1]

Simple answer to the thread is damn good. Perhaps not quite at Alonso's level whose experience level shines all the time now, his overall racecraft has surged through to another level the past couple of years. But I would put Vettel basically even overall with Hamilton and Raikkonen who are simply too tough to split.

[faster69]

You forget that in 2004 it was probably the only overtake attempt of the race - hence the big deal about it.

well sure it was almost impossible to pass at imola.

i don't see the big deal. there was never going to be a pass there. schumacher is entitled to take his line out of the corner, like button did to vettel last year.

[faster69]

Button put Vettel off the track on a run off area which had a 50 metre allowance to the barrier and carried no disadvantage. In fact Vettel was punished in that incident for using the run off to pass. Many cars go wide there due to the nature of the corner so it's a little difficult to putting someone on the grass. A better example would be Alonso and Vettel and their incidents at monza where they both forced the other onto grass and gravel at higher speeds. Schumacher was within his rights to do what he did with Montoya, but it was still dirty. Then again Michael enjoyed his reputation with such things so that's fine. I'm not in uproar over it, just offering my opinion on an old incident.

there was grass there and no way to pass. that's why montoya should have lifted rather than taking to the grass.

so alonso doing this to vettel (and vice versa) at one of the highest speed corners of monza is not dirty, but schumacher taking his normal line out of a slow corner where it's impossible to overtake on the outside is dirty? if anything alonso and vettel deliberately went wider than normal through the curva grande. of course that's fine.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Simple answer to the thread is damn good. Perhaps not quite at Alonso's level whose experience level shines all the time now, his overall racecraft has surged through to another level the past couple of years. But I would put Vettel basically even overall with Hamilton and Raikkonen who are simply too tough to split.

Based on raw pace, Alonso surely is the best overall package of the lot. Vettel strikes me more like a driver like Prost. He gets home reliably where the car allows him to. Kimi develops into that direction as well. Lewis. like Fernando, has raw speed in abundance, but lacks patience sometimes, although he improved leaps and bounds in that area since 2011. I don't think there is really some quantifiable unit to establish an order between them. They're all bloody good. The only thing, where I'd say that Vettel has a weakness is, that he can't 'drive around' car problems like Schumacher or Alonso did. But if the car is ok, he's nigh-on unbeatable and capable of some amazing feats, like his win in the Toro Rosso 2008. On a weekend, where the team hit the sweet spot with the setup, he duly delivered.

Mediocre people like Hill and Villeneuve, who won their WDC's in the lottery would botch races in the best car of the field. Fernando, Kimi, Lewis and Seb don't or at least very rarely.

[faster69]

bad lap today from alonso in the best car. surely he had pole if he could have done a lap as good as vettel or rosberg.

vettel can't drive around a problem. he went from last to 6th to win the championship in the wet with a hole in his side pod. what are you talking about???

what about spain 2010. front brakes had gone, nurses it home for a 3rd. gave him the championship in the end.

[dj_bytedisaster]

bad lap today from alonso in the best car. surely he had pole if he could have done a lap as good as vettel or rosberg.

vettel can't drive around a problem. he went from last to 6th to win the championship in the wet with a hole in his side pod. what are you talking about???

what about spain 2010. front brakes had gone, nurses it home for a 3rd. gave him the championship in the end.

Bad lap? are you kidding? Nico drove the lap from heaven, Vettel a good one and Alonso drove his lap on used tires and he's third on the grid. What the **** are you on about??

[faster69]

the ferrari was the quickest car and he let a mercedes and red bull qualify in front of him.

if he didn't make two awful mistakes in his final lap he would have almost certainly been on pole.

he is a poor qualifier, but luckily he's in an era of drs so he isn't punished for it. 22 poles from 202 races. vettel has 38 poles from 105 races.

says it all really.

i think mercedes will be strong tomorrow, but the ferrari is the quickest car.

[dj_bytedisaster]

the ferrari was the quickest car and he let a mercedes and red bull qualify in front of him.

Do you drink by any chance?

[faster69]

look, the ferrari would have been on pole if alonso didn't make two big mistakes on his final run. are you arguing against this?