How good is Vettel?

[D-Type]

I can never understand the "[driver under discussion]'s success is only due to the car" argument. Team managers aren't stupid, they will get the best driver they can into their car. Logically, if a car is the best car then the odds are it will have the best driver driving it.

[BDunnell]

I can never understand the "[driver under discussion]'s success is only due to the car" argument. Team managers aren't stupid, they will get the best driver they can into their car. Logically, if a car is the best car then the odds are it will have the best driver driving it.

Precisely. Thank goodness for an input from a proper F1 enthusiast — I use that word quite deliberately, as opposed to 'fan'.

[Hawkmoon]

Damon hill is just as good as his father even being cheated out of a title by Schumacher!

Even putting Schucrasher in the same league as senna is a joke he won so many titles in a car head and shoulders above the rest!
We saw him in a Mercedes and he was extremely average!

At the risk of getting off topic, the 1988 McLaren was one of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, the 1990 car was at least as good as the Ferrari and probably a bit better, and the 1991 car was the best until Williams got their act together in the latter part of the season, by which time the title was over. So Senna enjoyed just as much of a car advantage as Schumacher did.

Getting back to Vettel, he's a triple world champion and average drivers do not get to be triple world champions regardless of the quality of their car. He may end up as statistically the greatest driver in the sport's history and if he does, good luck to him, he'll have earned it.

It is true, however, that he has never had to deal with anything less than a competitive car (his first season aside). I'll withhold judgment of Vettel until I seem wrestle with a recalcitrant beast like some of the cars that Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton have had to deal with.

[Koz]

I think Mikes age caught up with him somewhat but I don't think he was 'average'. I just think Nico is better than a lot give him credit for, I guess this season will allow us to determine just how good.

And lets not forget, Michael had a great first half of last year. Misfortune and the Spanish GP aside, I wouldn't be able to say which driver was better. Nico won a GP, but Michael would most likely have won Monaco if not for the penalty.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I think Vettel has shown he is a great driver in a great car. But so far he is also a good or decent driver in something less than a great car. To me, if you want to be considered an all-time great you have to do amazing things with poor material, and it's not like last year's RBR started off that bad. Still, he's still young and have time for improvement. A couple of seasons ago he couldn't overtake to save his life and well, that's changed. In any case I think he has been very fortunate to have had as much success as he's had, considering it's not really until the last year or so that I've started having some confidence in him as an all-round driver.

But he seriously needs to get over himself. Half the time he acts like a spoiled child and half he puts on a fake show that is just cringe-inducing to watch or hear. It just gets so incredibly tiresome to hear him try to joke or laugh away all bad things that he does, it lends him no gravitas what so ever. Equally, for how long has his post-race celebrations seemed completely disingenuous? Grow up, man. When he takes the flag and just tells the team "Awesome job, on to the next one" or something to that effect, give me a call. Until then I'll just sit back and enjoy people booing at him when he's on the podium.

[massafan4]

In my opinion, Vettel is one of the best drivers in the F1, but let's not forget that he has the fastest car on the track, so it's a great advantage for him. But with his last sunday's manner, turned me against him entirely, although he hadn't been my favorite driver before the certain event neither.

[pino]

Guys please lets stay on topic (Vettel) thanks

[Big Ben]

Three times champion in a row and runner up the year before. I don´t care about the car, Seb is one of the Great!

we have another thread for overrated drivers

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[djparky]

you don't win 3WDC's by not being good- but Seb has had the benefit of the best car since about mid 2009- but so has Webber- and he isn't a world champion.

There are very few drivers who can win WDC's without having the best car- Alonso almost did it last year, Schumacher in 1995, Prost in 1986 managed it as well- I guess you could argue that Button did that as well- the Brawn was far from the best car from about mid 2009...but in general the driver with the best car has won.

the real test for Seb will be when he doesn't have that car under him- unless he leaves RBR or Adrian Newey leaves we'll never know