Massa answered my last question on him

[Valve Bounce]

Massa is quick,and lightening fast but by no means is he a racer, He had a go but was made to look like an Amateur by an F1 Rookie.
He'll win races but just proven himself to be no world champion material.

The camera was on Massa for much of the time he was following Hamilton, and I must say that my impression was that he had the faster car but was racing erratically in his efforts to get by Hamilton. Massa also concedes that Lewis had three more laps of fuel on board which he says wasn't that much!! Well, if you consider the weight difference, then it explains why Massa had the faster car. He was just lucky he didn't get stuck in the kitty litter.

[raphael123]

I've always thought Massa is overrated so my criticism of him in this instance is consistent with my view. He has improved as a driver, but so he should have. Drivers should always be looking to improve in every possible area and Massa certainly would not deserve his place in F1 if he hadn't improved, so giving him credit for that is not really saying much.

You said you didn't think Massa had matured - "The fact that he's still making errors he was making as a rookie suggests he is not maturing as a driver."

I simply stated that is simply not the case. He CLEARLY has matured as a driver from his rookie days. If your taking that back, and now saying he has matured from his rookie days, but we shouldn't praise that because it's to be expected, that's fair enough, I agree. But your original comment was that from his error in Malaysia suggested he hadn't matured since his rookie days. When it's clear for all to see he has matured a lot, especially in the past year and a half

[raphael123]

Massa has always been overrated. He was Ferrari's protege from the beginning, and even when he was testing that Ferrari (was that 2002) most of us talked of him as a hot-headed car-wrecking racer. Personally, I never uderstoof why JT rates him so high.

Maybe because Jean Todt's son (Nicholas?) is Felipe's manager?

[K-Pu]

I´m not a Massa fan, but one thing has to be said:

At least he tried to overtake. That´s more that can be said about other drivers. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but if you don´t try and just sit back and wait for it to come... Ask RS and his "overtakings".

Of course Massa makes mistakes. 72 races and making mistakes is the most normal thing. He´s human. Even MS made stupid mistakes with more than 200 races and 7 WDC´s. These things happen, and you can´t crucify a pilot for a bad day. Massa has had a lot of bad days... and is still seen as a hot-headed-car-wrecker (sic), and I think that´s something you can´t forget.

In my opinion there´s more "rightful bashing" based on his past performances instead of at the last race. For me, he´s not a future WDC, he´s not a great racer, he can be fast and he´s unconsistent. But nothing is decided from last week performance.

[ArrowsFA1]

You said you didn't think Massa had matured - "The fact that he's still making errors he was making as a rookie suggests he is not maturing as a driver."

I simply stated that is simply not the case. He CLEARLY has matured as a driver from his rookie days. If your taking that back, and now saying he has matured from his rookie days, but we shouldn't praise that because it's to be expected, that's fair enough, I agree. But your original comment was that from his error in Malaysia suggested he hadn't matured since his rookie days. When it's clear for all to see he has matured a lot, especially in the past year and a half

There are two things here raphael123:

1) In my view Massa has improved as a driver. Watching him race the Sauber in his rookie season was...entertaining...to say the least, and erratic at best! We don't now see, for example, the frequent and excessive steering corrections we saw then. That's an improvement.
2) Despite the improvement there is still a lack of maturity which should have developed through experience. The errors he made in Malaysia, while understandable to a degree as he was trying to make up places, were those of a desperate driver, not a mature one. He was not planning or controlling his battle with Hamilton, but was reacting to Hamilton's driving.

If Felipe wants to beat Kimi and win the WDC he will need to improve and mature as a driver. It's not going to happen until he does, and the clock is ticking.

[raphael123]

There are two things here raphael123:

1) In my view Massa has improved as a driver. Watching him race the Sauber in his rookie season was...entertaining...to say the least, and erratic at best! We don't now see, for example, the frequent and excessive steering corrections we saw then. That's an improvement.
2) Despite the improvement there is still a lack of maturity which should have developed through experience. The errors he made in Malaysia, while understandable to a degree as he was trying to make up places, were those of a desperate driver, not a mature one. He was not planning or controlling his battle with Hamilton, but was reacting to Hamilton's driving.

If Felipe wants to beat Kimi and win the WDC he will need to improve and mature as a driver. It's not going to happen until he does, and the clock is ticking.

I agree he needs to mature. Alonso and Kimi are in a different league when it comes to maturity, even Hamilton seems more mature behind the wheel! But do you really believe he hasn't matured since his rookie season?!

That was the only thing I disagreed with your original post. Everything you've said since I've agreed with. I simply disagreed with your suggestion that Massa hasn't matured since his debut season, which is clearly incorrect. He may not be mature enough still, but he has matured.

[555-04Q2]

Embarrassing because it was such a simple mistake which lost him a handful of points.

And are you embarressed when you stub your toe and bleed on the floor, which is a far simpler mistake/mis-calculation

[Ranger]

And are you embarressed when you stub your toe and bleed on the floor, which is a far simpler mistake/mis-calculation

Nope. I don't have hundreds of millions of people watching me, and I am not paid $6 million a year not to do those sort of mistakes!

[555-04Q2]

Nope. I don't have hundreds of millions of people watching me, and I am not paid $6 million a year not to do those sort of mistakes!

You've got me there

Can we at least say that he tried to overtake which is almost impossible in F1 these days and provided us with some entertainment value besides the normal prossesional follow my leader

[raphael123]

Schumacher wasn't embarrassed when he made that 'mistake' in Monaco last year, as a 7 x WC who is paid £30m. Should Massa be for that?

Though it was obviously a mistake, I was happy to see him push Hamilton and attempt to get passed. Better than Kimi who just sat back - though he later claimed it was down to restrictions on his engine.