What did Apple actually invent?

[CaptainRaiden]

Now easy there big fellas.... you're nothing but annoying attachments to your money to all of them ... no point in getting so worked up over some commercial products...

Exactly. While they're making billions, we're racking up forum posts taking from valuable work time making peanuts.

[CaptainRaiden]

If you were telling me your android phone had fantastic audio I'd believe you, sadly you're telling me its your iPhone so you must be biased and deluded!

Actually the OS has nothing to do with sound quality. An audio software or app can also maybe improve the sound at a maximum of 5%-10%. What sound really depends on is hardware. Since the A5 processors in Apple products are pretty much the exact same architecture as manufactured by Samsung, it would lead me to believe that Samsung have similar or even better sound processing on their SoCs. Onboard sound can only go so far, and so they would all sound pretty much similar. The remaining improvement can be achieved by app or headphones, but not by much, like I said above.

What would really make a huge difference is a sound card, just as in a PC. Smartphones don't have discreet sound chips yet, because it is not needed, and hence companies care feck-all about it and don't invest in them. So, I don't really understand how one smartphone can sound THAT much better than another one.

So, in this case, I'm afraid you're right that it's either delusion or bias.

[CaptainRaiden]

As for Jag and Malbec's long posts explaining all the financial and business mishmash, wow, thanks! And jeez, learn to take a joke!

I'll be the first to admit that my financial knowledge is lacking. But let me make it clear that I was in no way implying that Apple products are 100% Samsung hardware with a fancy OS. It was a figure of speech and meant more as a joke (hence the smiley after it) as a universal retort to people I've met who told me, with a straight face, that Apple hardware is much more reliable than that of Samsung's.

This though doesn't change the fact that without Samsung's hardware, Apple would be in a pickle. They're already looking at replacement manufacturers in a hurry, because I assume that all these lawsuits would mean the two companies probably won't be doing further business after the current contract runs out. They still might because it's good business for Samsung.

Apple buys liquid crystal displays, microprocessors and NAND flash memory from Samsung, three components which are pretty much the crux of any smartphone or tablet hardware. The A5 SoCs for example are designed by Apple and fabricated by Samsung (the sole manufacturer) based on the ARM architecture. So, I'm correct in saying that every iPhone 4S is running a processor made by Samsung. Same goes for the 3rd generation iPad which uses a modified A5 processor, again made by Samsung.

Also, Apple rejected Sharp as the default LCD manufacturer for the iPad 3, and chose Samsung. So, again, am I correct in saying that every iPad 3 is running an LCD manufactured by Samsung?

Having said that, Apple may be sourcing flash memory from other manufacturers.

[CaptainRaiden]

Having posted all of that, I gotta say this will be it from me in this thread. As entertaining and a wonderful use of time it is I got a very busy week followed by a well earned vacation. So, if you don't see me replying to your posts, just wait until the second week of September.

[Malbec]

They still might because it's good business for Samsung.

Actually it is NOT good business for Samsung's component supplier business for it to be sued for patent theft by a close partner and customer especially if the accusations stick. In fact its a good business killer. Why buy from someone who will steal your technology to become a rival?

Apple buys liquid crystal displays, microprocessors and NAND flash memory from Samsung, three components which are pretty much the crux of any smartphone or tablet hardware. The A5 SoCs for example are designed by Apple and fabricated by Samsung (the sole manufacturer) based on the ARM architecture. So, I'm correct in saying that every iPhone 4S is running a processor made by Samsung. Same goes for the 3rd generation iPad which uses a modified A5 processor, again made by Samsung.

Also, Apple rejected Sharp as the default LCD manufacturer for the iPad 3, and chose Samsung. So, again, am I correct in saying that every iPad 3 is running an LCD manufactured by Samsung?

Having said that, Apple may be sourcing flash memory from other manufacturers.

I'm not questioning your comments about existing Apple products having a high Samsung content, however from what I have read the iPhone 5 has a much reduced Samsung content so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

[Malbec]

Actually the OS has nothing to do with sound quality. An audio software or app can also maybe improve the sound at a maximum of 5%-10%. What sound really depends on is hardware. Since the A5 processors in Apple products are pretty much the exact same architecture as manufactured by Samsung, it would lead me to believe that Samsung have similar or even better sound processing on their SoCs. Onboard sound can only go so far, and so they would all sound pretty much similar. The remaining improvement can be achieved by app or headphones, but not by much, like I said above.

What would really make a huge difference is a sound card, just as in a PC. Smartphones don't have discreet sound chips yet, because it is not needed, and hence companies care feck-all about it and don't invest in them. So, I don't really understand how one smartphone can sound THAT much better than another one.

So, in this case, I'm afraid you're right that it's either delusion or bias.

I was being sarcastic about your inability to accept other peoples' opinions or personal choices as being legitimate.

I'm with Dave B on this, I fail to see how anything with an MP3 or AAC suffix and sound quality can be put in the same sentence with a straight face, especially with non-enclosed headphones.

It is interesting to see how you conclude that if an Apple and a Samsung have a similar architecture and components that it stands to reason that the Samsung must either be equal to or better than the Apple. Very rational thinking process there!

[GridGirl]

So I've read this thread from start to finish and got bored of the fan boi versus hater debate about three pages in. Then it occurred to me that Daniel started this thread to create the same old arguments and then ran for the Welsh hills laughing. Why did you guys fall hook, line and sinker for it? New angle but same opinions and arguments.

[CaptainRaiden]

Actually it is NOT good business for Samsung's component supplier business for it to be sued for patent theft by a close partner and customer especially if the accusations stick. In fact its a good business killer. Why buy from someone who will steal your technology to become a rival?

I was talking about good business purely from the money perspective. Apple is Samsung's biggest client.

I'm not questioning your comments about existing Apple products having a high Samsung content, however from what I have read the iPhone 5 has a much reduced Samsung content so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I was retorting to Jag's comments. Didn't have time for selective quoting at the time of posting, but here you go:

You and I could both own iPhones of the same model (4S let's say), but the two devices may have a number of components from entirely different suppliers. The common thread would be that both devices would have components (of whatever origin) that were derived from an Apple supplied design.

Apple may source flash memory from elsewhere, but for a fact every iPhone 4S runs a Samsung manufactured A5 processor and LCD panels. So, the point about two 4S' having components from entirely different suppliers is wrong.

[CaptainRaiden]

I was being sarcastic about your inability to accept other peoples' opinions or personal choices as being legitimate.

My main gripe is and always has been Apple's ridiculous markup. People can buy whatever they want.

I'm with Dave B on this, I fail to see how anything with an MP3 or AAC suffix and sound quality can be put in the same sentence with a straight face, especially with non-enclosed headphones.

Hey, I agree with Dave B as well. People can't even tell the difference between lossless and lossy, FLAC and MP3 on the highest of high end sound processing hardware. But Pino's ears are definitely telling him something else. I even mentioned in my retort to him in the previous page that all smartphones will sound pretty much the same, unless they have a discreet sound chip. And buying a smartphone for its sound is like -- I don't even know what example to use!

It is interesting to see how you conclude that if an Apple and a Samsung have a similar architecture and components that it stands to reason that the Samsung must either be equal to or better than the Apple. Very rational thinking process there!

I assumed since Samsung fabricate the systems-on-a-chip processors for Apple, they are quite well versed with what kind of architecture Apple uses, and can surely do slightly better? They already did better in the graphics arena with the Galaxy S2, which again ran a processor and GPU unit built around similar ARM architecture, but beat the iPhone 4S when it came to playing high end games or streaming movies on a bigger screen, running a supposedly "slower" and glitchy Android OS. It stands to reason that they could surely do better with the sound chip too? And by better I mean maybe 5% better.

You can check up on audiophiles over the internet talking about the original Galaxy S' DAC to be the best in business still when it comes to playing music. That again is software based, so it can only go so far.

But that's just opinion. Fact is when it comes to listening to MP3 or even FLAC on smartphones, it's purely down to personal preference, and I'm aware of that. But claiming that the iPhone's sound is best in the market is quite far fetched.

[CaptainRaiden]

It is interesting to see how you conclude that if an Apple and a Samsung have a similar architecture and components that it stands to reason that the Samsung must either be equal to or better than the Apple. Very rational thinking process there!

So, I guess I was right about this too, again. When I listened to both iPhone 4S and Galaxy S3, the S3 sounded better to me. I have to work with sound cards for my work, so I can tell the quality difference also when playing FLAC. I bumped into this by accident. And yep, this proves that the Galaxy S3 has better sound quality, because it carries a discreet sound chip made by Wolfson.

The Samsung Galaxy S3

Samsung Galaxy S3 features a Wolfson audio chip, but not in North America

Whereas the iPhone 4S uses a codec, and has been even criticized for its sound and even deemed inferior to the older iPhone 4 when it comes to audio quality.

iPhone 4S audio chip ?

Apple iPhone 4s music audio quality in question. - CNET iPhones, iPods, and iPads Forums


Well, my work here is done. I guess I could have used 10 minutes to clear some things up. Back to work!