O/T The V8s are coming!

[call_me_andrew]

For a series that is supposed to have cars that are all the same, the selection of a chasis for a race wouldn't mean anything to a team, would it.

Oh but it does seem to.

Jayski's® NASCAR Silly Season Site - Race Info Page

Maybe somebody at the race teams should tell the engineers and team managers that a bunch of "google geniuses" on an internet racing forum says their cars are all the same and to quit wasting time and money trying to build cars for certain tracks.

They aren't building cars for specific tracks in the post-COT era. Fleet sizes are only half as big as they were 5 years ago.

If there were no gains to be made why do the top teams have huge engine programs?

Because they make their money by selling engines to small teams. Do you think Tommy Baldwin, Joe Nemechek, JTG, and Robby Gordon build their own engines?

[Lee Roy]

They aren't building cars for specific tracks in the post-COT era. Fleet sizes are only half as big as they were 5 years ago.

I guess not. For some reason the selection of the chasis seems to be an big enough deal for it to be announced and Jayski to have a page on it. But hey, what do the team engineers and mangers know.

Because they make their money by selling engines to small teams. Do you think Tommy Baldwin, Joe Nemechek, JTG, and Robby Gordon build their own engines?

Yes they do. But if their engines aren't better than any of the others offered, they lose sales. If NASCAR teams were building spec engines, the NASCAR teams would have one engine builder in the Charlotte area and save a ton of money. And I'm certain that Hendrick's motivation for his engine room has more to do with winning races and championships than it does "sales" . . . . . as it does for Rousch/Yates, JGR, TRD, ECGR and Penske.

[call_me_andrew]

Is Jayski a measure of great importance now? According to Jayski, July 20 is Rose Mattioli's birthday. Do you think this will cause NASCAR to change the size of the restrictor plate at Talladega?

[Lee Roy]

Is Jayski a measure of great importance now? According to Jayski, July 20 is Rose Mattioli's birthday. Do you think this will cause NASCAR to change the size of the restrictor plate at Talladega?

For some reason the NASCAR teams feel that the different chasis are significant. Not sure why you feel that just because it is discussed on Jayski that it doesn't matter?

[Bob Riebe]

This is a car.



What was changed? Two body parts that had no major effect on downforce. By your definition, painting a pink clown on the hood completly changes a car.

Let's see, hmm, rear spoiler vs. wing and front air-dam vs. splitter. No major effect, or difference, in how they affect the aerodynamics.
I hope you are not an engineer.

[Bob Riebe]

Is Jayski a measure of great importance now? According to Jayski, July 20 is Rose Mattioli's birthday. Do you think this will cause NASCAR to change the size of the restrictor plate at Talladega?

Jayski is owned and served by ESPN, and they probably have more inside info on NASCAR than anyone on this board.

[Bob Riebe]

For some reason the NASCAR teams feel that the different chasis are significant. Not sure why you feel that just because it is discussed on Jayski that it doesn't matter?

Because he does not want it to?
Remember he said switching from wing and splitter to spoiler and air-dam will have no affect on how the car handles.

[call_me_andrew]

My point is that Jayski publishing something does not prove it is relevant to racing.

They didn't get rid of the splitter. As you can see in this shot, the splitter (white strip) is still alive and kicking. All that's changed is the struts are now concealed behind bodywork. There's no gain or loss of front downforce so it's purely a cosmetic change. It's no longer adjustable, but unless it's a plate track, stock cars are always set up for maximum downforce anyway.



The spoiler provides as much downforce as that wing did, but with more drag. This has lead to more aero push in turns (particularly at the 1.5 mile tracks), but it has brought a little slingshot passing to Michigan, Fontana, Pocono, and Indy which neither I nor anyone else expected. I'm not convinced that it'll keep tires on the ground at Talladega.

Let's look at the performance difference in pole speeds between the last Texas race with a wing, and the first Texas COT race with a spoiler.

Fall 2009, Kurt Busch was on pole at 191.117 mph. In Spring 2010 (just the third spoiler race), Denny Hamlin went 191.327 mph. If there was a real difference in single car performance, these speeds wouldn't have been so close.

[Bob Riebe]

My point is that Jayski publishing something does not prove it is relevant to racing.

They didn't get rid of the splitter. As you can see in this shot, the splitter (white strip) is still alive and kicking. All that's changed is the struts are now concealed behind bodywork. There's no gain or loss of front downforce so it's purely a cosmetic change. It's no longer adjustable, but unless it's a plate track, stock cars are always set up for maximum downforce anyway.



The spoiler provides as much downforce as that wing did, but with more drag. This has lead to more aero push in turns (particularly at the 1.5 mile tracks), but it has brought a little slingshot passing to Michigan, Fontana, Pocono, and Indy which neither I nor anyone else expected. I'm not convinced that it'll keep tires on the ground at Talladega.

Let's look at the performance difference in pole speeds between the last Texas race with a wing, and the first Texas COT race with a spoiler.

Fall 2009, Kurt Busch was on pole at 191.117 mph. In Spring 2010 (just the third spoiler race), Denny Hamlin went 191.327 mph. If there was a real difference in single car performance, these speeds wouldn't have been so close.

IF you have been reading the NASCAR reports, the changes to the front and rear, have changed how the car handles.

[Rollo]

To derail this thread again, my fear is that the Impala will be seen by GM as a viable replacement for the Commodore. Come 2014 both the Impala and the Commodore will be up for renewal, and if the Commodore's experience being sold under the G8 nameplate at Pontiac is anything to go by, Detroit won't see the point in developing the next gen-Commodore when they can just fully import the Impala on the "Super Epsilon" II platform.

The 2013 and 2014 races just might be the final death-knells for the RWD Commodore. Detroit already killed Monaro, they can do it again.