Rally Sweden 2011

**Julle69** · 13th February 2011, 19:21

Nice trivia for Hirvonen:

- win for Fiesta s2000 in it's first race (Monte)
- win for Fiesta RS WRC in it's first race

**Mirek** · 13th February 2011, 19:25

Originally Posted by Julle69

Nice trivia for Hirvonen:

- win for Fiesta s2000 in it's first race (Monte)
- win for Fiesta RS WRC in it's first race

And that has been both the first and last victory of Fiesta in IRC. Hopefully it's better with in WRC.

**Mise** · 13th February 2011, 19:34

Originally Posted by Julle69

Nice trivia for Hirvonen:

- win for Fiesta s2000 in it's first race (Monte)
- win for Fiesta RS WRC in it's first race

Nice trivia for Fiesta too.

**ttiirika** · 13th February 2011, 19:36

Originally Posted by darkstar

difficulty is to decite what it was...pushing the car out the way and as a possitive effect the car suddenly startet by itself? or pushing the car to start the engine?

Well which one it was? Or both? OK, it was both: pushed to clear the road (= OK by the book) AND pushed to start the engine (= disqualification by the book). If the car would have been pushed by the side of the road and left there for Loeb and Elena trying to start it, of course it would have been totally OK. But when pushed by Solberg's car the start button of Loeb's Citroen was pushed and so it used outside help to get it's engine running. I am not an engine specialist, but I haven't seen a car which suddenly starts by itself when pushed.

**darkstar** · 13th February 2011, 19:42

exactly my opinion

**dimviii** · 13th February 2011, 19:43

Originally Posted by ttiirika

Well which one it was? Or both? OK, it was both: pushed to clear the road (= OK by the book) AND pushed to start the engine (= disqualification by the book). If the car would have been pushed by the side of the road and left there for Loeb and Elena trying to start it, of course it would have been totally OK. But when pushed by Solberg's car the start button of Loeb's Citroen was pushed and so it used outside help to get it's engine running. I am not an engine specialist, but I haven't seen a car which suddenly starts by itself when pushed.

More rightly is..... the car started without the help from starter button but with the engine compression while was pushed by Petters ds3.

**txl** · 13th February 2011, 19:43

Provisional Final Classification
http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-conten...sification.pdf

**Mirek** · 13th February 2011, 19:45

Where is written that You can't start engine while being pushed? That's why rules must be written clear so as they don't allow to weave. I don't defend Citroën, I don't like that either but I can see that it's very difficult to judge such situation under given rules.

Anyway maybe stewards don't talk about that at all because they were not informed or they don't want...

**PLuto** · 13th February 2011, 20:00

I have wrote an article about it, but it is only in czech, as usually (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=11761). They should push the car to the side of the road, there was lot of place. But they were pushing it directly towards with clear idea to start the car. But the main problem should be, that nobody will do with it. Lot of organisers there, competitors relation officer Jacky Jung was there, but I think there will be no info to stewards...

**Juha_Koo** · 13th February 2011, 20:03

Originally Posted by ttiirika

Loeb's car needed outside help to be able to start. How complicated is that? It is very simple. It was not pushed to clear the road, but to start the engine. Use also your brains and not only law text. He should be disqualified.

WRC Rules:

20.1.2
"Cars may only be towed, transported or pushed in order to bring them back onto the rally road or to clear the rally route."

Loeb's car was blocking the rally route. Liasion section is part of the rally route. Therefore, rules were not broken. It's just a coincedence that the car started.

No need to use brains when there's a law (=rule) to follow. It's really stupid, but that's how it is. The law is practised how it is *written* - not how it's interpretted. Then again, people argue in courts how the situation (=breaking the law) should be interpretted from the law's perspective. LOL

This is common problem in juridical philosophy. The law must be obeyed at all times, in any situation. If it would not be obeyed, the whole Western system of State and the "institution of agreement" (there has to be a 3rd party to enforce that the agreement is obeyed - and if not, it has the power to give sanction(s)="An agreement without a sword (=the state) is just mere words with no meaning") Example: A poor man's wife is dying to a fatal disease and the man steals medicine that can cure his wife because he can't afford the medicine. I think we all can agree that the man did the right thing. However, he broke the law. And one who has broken the law and is captured has to undergo a trial and a possible sentence. Total bullsh*t from a moral perspective, but a law is a law. Once it's not obeyed it's time for total anarchy.

Rally itself was great!

Lots of action, great fighting in the top5 to the last minute and some very, very memorable situations; PG's off in the first proper stage, Sandell's near miss, Patterson driving, etc. etc. New cars are awesome even though I'm not used to them quite yet. Fastest SS times for several different drivers, fighting till the end in the top5, big offs, great conditions, nice atmosphere and suberb route. This rally had it all and liked it. A lot.