Toyota quits F1 *confirmed*

[Malbec]

I do not agree with your comments about Brawn. Barrichello mentioned that the atmosphere in the smaller team is better, not to mention that Ross used Mercedes engines. About the grey area, it is good for F1 teams to be smart and need I remind you that Williams and Toyota also benefited from this, however, they were unable to stay in front of RBR, Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes. However I agree that the constant rule changes are not good for the sport and hopefully after 2010 at least for 10 years there will be no more changes. About the quality of new teams, let's wait to see what happens. They might be good, if not, people will start cheering for the underdogs again

So how good would the Brawn have been had Honda not been behind its development throughout late 2007 and 2008? The car that won the championship in my view is one of the most expensive, if not THE most expensively developed F1 car in history, designed by a team under Honda control and management with access to their R and D. Lets blow away the fairy tale crap here, Brawn winning is not so far different to McLaren or Ferrari winning, big manufacturer money getting big points is the name of the game here.

As for Toyota, there are big reasons for them to leave, their lack of performance being only one small one.

Will the makers be missed? I think they will, they bring a lot of money and sponsorship to the sport as well as raising its profile with F1 being used in advertising a lot. When they leave, they will take a lot of that with them. Not only that but the FIA will be able to rule F1 unopposed by powerful lobby groups, small independent teams struggling for survival can be bought off, makers are harder.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Lets blow away the fairy tale crap here

There is still a fairytale aspect, in that the personnel at Brackley went from the scrapheap to the championship in a very short space of time. If it wasn't for the efforts of Brawn, Fry and Co the 'most expensively developed F1 car in history' would never have hit the track.

[Malbec]

There is still a fairytale aspect, in that the personnel at Brackley went from the scrapheap to the championship in a very short space of time. If it wasn't for the efforts of Brawn, Fry and Co the 'most expensively developed F1 car in history' would never have hit the track.

I agree, the fairytale aspect was on the administrative side and goes as far as shoehorning in a brand new engine in a matter of weeks. The overall pace of the car was still thanks to a manufacturer owned and supported outfit though.

[jens]

Well, the team was given very strict goals before the start of the season - win or departure. From this point of view Toyota's decision wasn't surprising/unexpected unlike Honda/BMW - actually the bosses pretty much kept their word! Maybe a title contention could have saved the team, but that's purely a speculation.

But life goes on and Toyota can find a new challenge in other motorsports. From 2011 onwards we will see significant rule changes in various series (DTM, WTCC, WRC, LMS), so one could expect them at least somewhere and more successfully than F1. Their promoted "Toyota Way" probably didn't quite work out like they expected during those 8 season in F1, but at least they tried and got a new experience. What I appreciate very much is that they decided to set the whole team up entirely by themselves and didn't by an existing outfit like BMW/Honda/Renault did. That's why I don't expect a buy-out of the Cologne team, but that Toyota will start using their very 'own' factory for other motorsport activities.

Next year is going to be quite different and it's going to be interesting to witness it, but the main thing I fear with all those manufacturer withdrawals - which hasn't been highlighted in this thread at all - is that the level of competition will decrease. Brawn/Sauber/etc may not have the backing they had during manufacturer days and McLaren/Ferrari/RBR may have an easier run. And of course it's hard to expect any of the new teams becoming a major player or even a midfielder straightaway. For instance in 98/99 McLaren and Ferrari were pretty much the only manufacturer-supported teams (maybe with the exception of Prost-Peugeot?!) and they were way above others, who were struggling with lack of finances, underpowered engines, etc.

[I am evil Homer]

The way Toyota treated Ove Andersson was a disgrace so I won't be shedding a tear for them. They had the makings of a good team with Andersson at the helm, hiring Gascoigne - no coincidence its best results were with these two being given freedom.

[jens]

When BMW/Honda quitted, people were more positive about those teams and especially in Honda's case there was a lot of disappointment on these forums despite two previously abysmal seasons, so... I think folks should show at least some respect about ToyotaF1. Overall they weren't too impressive, but at least in some way different to others. : You will never see their peculiarity back in F1 anyway, so why bash. Btw, Team Princial Yamashina cried at the press conference after the announcement, so that's not really true that the team is passionless, soulless, etc, like is tried to be made out.

[I am evil Homer]

No it's called "saving face". Toyota screwed Ove Andersson over - a man who set up TTE in 1979 with impressive results for them and what does the Japanese board do? Sack him.

When he left Toyota F1 went downhill - it's all of their own making.

[jens]

No it's called "saving face". Toyota screwed Ove Andersson over - a man who set up TTE in 1979 with impressive results for them and what does the Japanese board do? Sack him.

When he left Toyota F1 went downhill - it's all of their own making.

Wasn't Ove's departure due to "compulsory retirement age"? Although in a competitive sport like F1 this shouldn't be really followed that strictly.

[Malbec]

No it's called "saving face". Toyota screwed Ove Andersson over - a man who set up TTE in 1979 with impressive results for them and what does the Japanese board do? Sack him.

When he left Toyota F1 went downhill - it's all of their own making.

They didn't sack him, they retired him and kept him on as an adviser.

It ought to be remembered too that it had been implied that both Andersson and Brunner had been involved in the decision to use Ferrari's 2002 plans that they had bought on CD from an ex-Ferrari employee, it was therefore not surprising to see both leave the team soon after.

[scaliwag]

What about Ferrari?

Also, don't manufacturers derive greater benefits from having their own team, rather than simply supplying engines? Aren't Williams remembered for winning titles with Hill and Villeneuve (just as an example) rather than Renault?

Arrows point taken, however Williams have always been an independent team, over the years they have used many different engines, Williams have always been solely a racing team, until quite recently the vast majority of teams were independent, agreed one or two teams did manufacture sports cars, as for Ferrari they were invited into F1 post 1945 by Bernie, and only agreed to join with a guaranteed veto.
As for me the best racing was from the 1950's to 1990,s.

Regards scaliwag.