No Juam Montoya thread yet?

[PA Rick]

You Say NASCAR doesn't release the times and then you publish these times. Where did you get them? Out of your EAR?

He was speeding. The limit is 55. They give you 5 for a fudge factor, and he was OUTSIDE of that. He wasn't 3.3 inches or 1.8...do the calculation from 55mph.

The system is the same for all drivers. All the transponders have to be mounted the same way in the same location and at 55 or 60 mph, the timing would be accurate to a thousandth of second or so.

Why do you insist that NASCAR jobbed JPM? You think him winning the Brickyard 400 wouldn't be a better story and marketing bonaza for NASCAR? CAn you say 50 million hispanics would be jacked by this? You think NASCAR doesn't want those people as fans? Good lord man....

JPM was speeding. Period. It isn't NASCAR's job to tell the teams what ratios to run and the RPM reading that will give them 55mph in second gear. If you speed, you are punished. We have had this out and yet you still think there is some conspiracy.

I am one to rip NASCAR when they screw up, and if they had dopes up and down pit lane with stop watches I would BBQ them, but the timing loops and scoring computer is not biased, and all the teams have access to those times. They do NOT have them in real time, and maybe they should have that scoring monitor on the media feed like the scoring computer, but you can be assured NASCAR wouldn't be able to hide anyone speeding on pitlane.

NASCAR just refuses to give the teams any tools that help them stay in the speed limit. THAT too is fair...it isn't the law's job to keep you within it, it is their job to catch you if you break the law. THAT my friend is the reality many refuse to grasp.

AS for JPM at Pocono, I wanted him to win, and it was a cheap attempt by ESPN to misunderstand what Kasey was doing there. Kasey was apologizing and JPM acknowledged that on the MRN broadcast. Not sure what he said on ESPN but I suppose he could be annoyed with the 9 giving him that shove, but I don't think anyone had anything for Hamlin......

I got the speeds because they were released after he was caught speeding. I never said he wasn't speeding. But I would like to know if anybody else was speeding and didn't get a drive thru. That data isn't available.
It's silly to say the speed limit is 55 with a 5mph leeway. What would happen if they said the engine size is 353 cubic inches with a 5 cubic inch cushion. How many 353 cubic inches would there be?I bet most would be 357.999 cubic inches.
Do they give teams warnings if they exceed 55mph?

[muggle not]

Your argument is all wet. All drivers know the rule on speeding and the penalty if caught. It was stupid of Montoya to push the limit on pit road speeding when he had a comfortable lead on the track. He only has himself to blame for losing the race.

I got the speeds because they were released after he was caught speeding. I never said he wasn't speeding. But I would like to know if anybody else was speeding and didn't get a drive thru. That data isn't available.
It's silly to say the speed limit is 55 with a 5mph leeway. What would happen if they said the engine size is 353 cubic inches with a 5 cubic inch cushion. How many 353 cubic inches would there be?I bet most would be 357.999 cubic inches.
Do they give teams warnings if they exceed 55mph?

[dj4monie]

He is having a great year, the change to Chevy seems to have done him the world of good.

Didn't like the ESPN pit reporter after yesterdays race, asking why Kahne had come over to have "serious words" with Juan when Kahne had only apologised for getting into him on the last restart. Always trying to brew a feud that never exists.

This is the press/media trying their hand at manufacturing drama, this is the fall out form Reality TV.

I tune that nonsense out its brutal...

[dj4monie]

Mr. Moderator, is this kind of thing allowed here?

Let's see - NO

Why would the moderator step in here? When people say "Ghetto" what are the visual imagines that come into your mind? I don't think of people living in squaller in rural PA, that's for sure.

NASCAR is STILL despite all its efforts and to the chagrin of fans that have been with Cup since the start of the "modern" (HA!) era is a Southeastern Sport, in the belly of Red State(s)/Bible Belt.

You can't get away from it and I am not the first person to use that phase nor the last.

[Lee Roy]

You can't get away from it and I am not the first person to use that phase nor the last.

I guess so. There are a lot of you out there with no manners.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I got the speeds because they were released after he was caught speeding. I never said he wasn't speeding. But I would like to know if anybody else was speeding and didn't get a drive thru. That data isn't available.
It's silly to say the speed limit is 55 with a 5mph leeway. What would happen if they said the engine size is 353 cubic inches with a 5 cubic inch cushion. How many 353 cubic inches would there be?I bet most would be 357.999 cubic inches.
Do they give teams warnings if they exceed 55mph?

If anyone else was speeding, they would have gotten the drive thru. I have told you WHY would NASCAR hide such a thing? So they could pick on JPM? Good lord you are delusional if you believe that.

If every team wanted to sit there and watch that monitor with the loops in the pits, they could. NASCAR isn't going to hide this stuff. The 5 mph leeway isn't silly, it is giving the drivers a fudge factor for getting their speed off the tach.

By the way, to your other point they have a 350ci limit in engines and give the engine builders a free 7.99 cubic inches. Just ask Carl Long what happens when you go past it. The point is the engine builder who looks in the rule book knows the second he assembles an engine over that 350ci limit, he is in the gray zone and he better not hope the engine works in and displaces more than that 358ci. He may build into that zone, but NASCAR is going to be aware of it and will let him know that he is in the gray zone if they measure it. Still the rule says 350ci. Just like a cop who warns you and doesn't give you a ticket. Go past a certain point, you get the ticket. It is no different in NASCAR.

The rules are the rules, and while they have for some rules well known fudge factors such as speeding on pit road, the fact is the rule for that track was 55, and he went past 60. Case closed. It doesn't MATTER what the other cars did, JPM was going too fast. End of story. If someone else was, they got nailed too if they were out side that 5mph window.

It is worth noting that NASCAR in the last decade has been very diligent about taking out gray areas on how they enforce penalties. They may in their less recent past made some decisions that were NOT fair on the surface but as of the last few years, have changed their practices and procedures AND rules and enforced them without malice and without prejudice. If you have PROOF (not just your opinion) either state it, or give it up.

[PA Rick]

If anyone else was speeding, they would have gotten the drive thru. I have told you WHY would NASCAR hide such a thing? So they could pick on JPM? Good lord you are delusional if you believe that.

If every team wanted to sit there and watch that monitor with the loops in the pits, they could. NASCAR isn't going to hide this stuff. The 5 mph leeway isn't silly, it is giving the drivers a fudge factor for getting their speed off the tach. THey have a 350ci limit in engines and give the engine builders a free 7.99 cubic inches. Just ask Carl Long what happens when you go past it.

The rules are the rules and NASCAR in the last decade has been very diligent about taking out gray areas on how they enforce penalties. They may in their less recent past made some decisions that were NOT fair on the surface but as of the last few years, have changed their practices and procedures AND rules and enforced them without malice and without prejudice. If you have PROOF (not just your opinion) either state it, or give it up.

You are the first person to say there is a publicly viewable monitor posting
all loop times in the pits. If this is the case then I am satisfied. I was of the opinion that the teams only get data when they exceed the speed.
If the data is there, I wonder why teams don't give drivers feedback from this monitor? Montoya exceeded 59mph on a previous stop.

In summary, my contention was that NASCAR only provided data to those who speed. No speed data for other drivers is provided. Therefore NASCAR could overlook some drivers speeding and the data would never be seen.
If there is a public monitor with all loop speeds posted, then this could not happen. Does anybody else know if this monitor is present?

If we had to have proof and not opinions to post, this would be a lonely forum.