I feel sorry for Felipe Massa...

[Tazio]

And when Lewis does similar things he's just an arrogant prick?

As an F1 pilot Lewis has gotten every single thing he’s earned, or deserves.
I won't comment on his character or personality, because I am not personally aquatinted with the man!

[Valve Bounce]

As an F1 pilot Lewis has gotten every single thing he’s earned, or deserves.
I won't comment on his character or personality, because I am not personally aquatinted with the man!

I feel the same - totally neutral about the guy. I concede that he is a very fast driver, and could even be one of the fastest on the track. Many of his non-wins come from silly/stupid mistakes, but he is young and will improve. If he wins the championship, then good on him. If he doesn't (apart from mechanical failure) and it comes from a silly mistake, then he is the one to suffer the slings and jibes. Too Bad!!

And one last word here: he is a helluva lot better driver than his team mate this year.

Sorry for stealing the thunder for Felipe's thread, but I see absolutely no reason to feel sorry for him, and if he is beaten by Lewis, it can easily be explained that he has been beaten by a faster driver. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[Knock-on]

Actually, I'd like to comment on that incident. Massa had his wheels on the grass and came back onto the track over the curb. I felt that what happened afterwards was out of his control - it would have been very difficult for him to deliberately do anything other than hope his car got back onto the track safely. He hit Lewis Hamilton in the process and he received a drive through penalty.

I think that's the just outcome.

No doubt, Massa made a mistake, T Boned his fellow title contender and although he was penalised, still eneded up benefitting from his mistake.

Is that right?

Would it not be more fair, more just, that if he made a mistake and ruined his rivals race, that he should receive no points and a penalty for the next race.

Shouldn't you be penalised for this sort of situation and not benefitted?

I don't really have any sympathy.

[Valve Bounce]

No doubt, Massa made a mistake, T Boned his fellow title contender and although he was penalised, still eneded up benefitting from his mistake.

Is that right?

Would it not be more fair, more just, that if he made a mistake and ruined his rivals race, that he should receive no points and a penalty for the next race.

Shouldn't you be penalised for this sort of situation and not benefitted?

I don't really have any sympathy.

I think drivers are penalised, during the race, for the transgression, and not for any eventual outcome.

[F1boat]

I think drivers are penalised, during the race, for the transgression, and not for any eventual outcome.

Well said. I know that LH fans are eager for his championship, but they should wait for about two weeks more and not constantly talking about what ifs.

[Knock-on]

I think drivers are penalised, during the race, for the transgression, and not for any eventual outcome.

OK, here are 5 examples of driver error that were investigated.

1. Driver error results in crashing into driver infront taking both out of the race
2. Driver error by title contender into close rival results in crashing into driver infront taking both out of the race
3. Driver error by title contender into close rival results in crashing into driver infront effectively taking that driver out but allowing the transgressor to benefit
4. Driver collides with another driver on a corner. Both continue with the transgressor finishing behind the victim
5. Driver cuts chicane to avoid penalty and gives the place he gained back

1. Is Kimi into Sutil - No penalty - racing incident, Correct decision
2. Hammy into Kimi - Both taken out and Lewis penalised next race - Correct decision
3. Massa into Lewis - Lewis effectively taken out allowing Massa to score 1 point - Victim is penalised and transgressor benefits. Not the right decision
4. Massa into Seb - Victim penalised benefiting Massa by a further point - The craziest decision for many a year.
5. Lewis avoiding Kimi - Lewis penalised benefiting Massa by further points which would have put the championship out of contention.

There are a few facts we can observe in this.

1. The first 2 instances were dealt with correctly and were fair.
2. The 3rd resulted in the offender benefiting
4. the last were very contentious and the majority of people believe them to be wrong.
5. These contentious penalties have ensured that Massa is still in the championship.

Sorry for Massa? He shouldn't still be in the hunt!

[F1boat]

4. the last were very contentious and the majority of people believe them to be wrong.

Replace "people" with "British fans".

[kalasend]

Oh, and Anthony Davidson should be given another chance in 2009.

No, he shouldn't. He's British, he's supposed to beat a Japanese driving the same car hands down. But he couldn't. IMO, Ant shouldn't even dream of another chance until Sato has a seat.

[wedge]

OK, here are 5 examples of driver error that were investigated.

1. Driver error results in crashing into driver infront taking both out of the race
2. Driver error by title contender into close rival results in crashing into driver infront taking both out of the race
3. Driver error by title contender into close rival results in crashing into driver infront effectively taking that driver out but allowing the transgressor to benefit
4. Driver collides with another driver on a corner. Both continue with the transgressor finishing behind the victim
5. Driver cuts chicane to avoid penalty and gives the place he gained back

1. Is Kimi into Sutil - No penalty - racing incident, Correct decision
2. Hammy into Kimi - Both taken out and Lewis penalised next race - Correct decision
3. Massa into Lewis - Lewis effectively taken out allowing Massa to score 1 point - Victim is penalised and transgressor benefits. Not the right decision
4. Massa into Seb - Victim penalised benefiting Massa by a further point - The craziest decision for many a year.
5. Lewis avoiding Kimi - Lewis penalised benefiting Massa by further points which would have put the championship out of contention.

There are a few facts we can observe in this.

1. The first 2 instances were dealt with correctly and were fair.
2. The 3rd resulted in the offender benefiting
4. the last were very contentious and the majority of people believe them to be wrong.
5. These contentious penalties have ensured that Massa is still in the championship.

Sorry for Massa? He shouldn't still be in the hunt!

Knock-on,

s**t happens - Rosberg getting a 10s penalty in Singapore and still manages to finish on the podium being another case in point.

[kalasend]

The first (good) side is the one that dominated Valencia, gets lots of pole positions, wins races from the front, and up to now has won the most races in the season with 5.

The second (bad) side of him, is a whiner (Nurburgring 07), hopeless in the wet (Silverstone 08), seemingly incapable of fighting through the field (Hungary 07, Singapore) and, like his friend Michael Schumacher, also seems incapable of admitting his mistakes (Fuji 08).

Your logic is flawed. If you weight both Massa's goods and bads equal, and that you don't have any personal likes/dislikes, you wouldn't have started this thread at all.

All you're saying is essentially Massa does not merit champion. Which is simply not true by all accounts. All Massa has done through out the season is put his head down and drive as fast as he can. He's able to extend the fight to this point of the season, despite the many problems his team has given him.

F1 rules say that the driver who scores the most takes the championship, not the one who is conceived deserved by most.