Yet another pointless Ferrari vs McLaren FIA thread to be closed in the near future

So, you don't see that it wrong for the president of the FIA to admit that Ferrari are the most important tem in F1 and his relationship with Luca is very personal.

I suppose it's OK if you dont want impartiality.

Honestly Tamb, you cannot defent admitted bias, can you?

Please say you wont.

Where the feck has Mosley or anybody else at the FIA said that they are biased? Nowhere.

"Bias - a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...ition&ct=title



They have stated that Ferrari are the most important team in F1. Since the other teams all signed up to the FIA as soon as Ferrari left the GPWC group, that is merely a statement of fact.

So let me get this right, you now don't want the FIA not to admit facts?

Why shouldn't the President of the FIA have a 'personal relationship' with the head of Ferrari? It makes perfect sense to have a good relationship. Just because Ron Dennis is incapable of having a personal relationship doesn't mean that the rest of F1 has to adopt his social faults.

So, please, carry on believing what you want to believe, but at least answer why, if the FIA is so biased towards Ferrari, did it take 21 years for Ferrari to win a WDC?

If the FIA is biased, what took so long?

Honestly Tamb, you cannot defent admitted bias, can you?

“Firstly, because it holds a historically important position, as the team has been involved in Formula 1 since 1950. The second point has something to do with existential orientation; imagine there were only one British team and all other teams were Italian, that the commercial rights-holder was Italian, as was the FIA President, the race director and his assistant and the sport's commissioner. Wouldn't it be understandable that this team would be very careful? I use my neutrality with a huge amount of responsibility and stay in close contact with Ferrari to assure them that no British ‘mafia' or cartel tries to take advantage of them, but should we find it necessary to impose our technical or sporting regulations, then Ferrari is treated like any other team. Should we find irregularities on a Ferrari – like the moveable floor after the Australian Grand Prix – it is removed and banned.”

So where did you see bias in that?

If anything, it is Ferrari who should be worried about bias, given that the majority of the other teams are the same nationality as the FIA President, the race director, his assistant and the sports commisioner.

Perhaps, since your'e so keen on there not being any chance of bias, you should be demanding that Charlie Whiting is replaced by somebody from a country without links to an F1 team?

I can recommend a Kenyan.

2007 - Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari
2006 - Fernando Alonso, Renault
2005 - Fernando Alonso, Renault
2004 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2003 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2002 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2001 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2000 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
1999 - Mika Hakkinen, McLaren
1998 - Mika Hakkinen, McLaren
1997 - Jacques Villeneuve, Williams
1996 - Damon Hill, Williams
1995 - Michael Schumacher, Benetton
1994 - Michael Schumacher, Benetton
1993 - Alain Prost, Williams
1992 - Nigel Mansell, Williams
1991 - Ayrton Senna, McLaren
1990 - Ayrton Senna, McLaren
1989 - Alain Prost, McLaren
1988 - Ayrton Senna, McLaren
1987 - Nelson Piquet, Williams
1986 - Alain Prost, McLaren
1985 - Alain Prost, McLaren
1984 - Niki Lauda, McLaren
1983 - Nelson Piquet, Brabham
1982 - Keke Rosberg, Williams
1981 - Nelson Piquet, Brabham
1980 - Alan Jones, Williams
1979 - Jody Scheckter, Ferrari
1978 - Mario Andretti, Lotus
1977 - Niki Lauda, Ferrari
1976 - James Hunt, McLaren
1975 - Niki Lauda, Ferrari
1974 - Emerson Fittipaldi, McLaren
1973 - Jackie Stewart, Tyrrell
1972 - Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus
1971 - Jackie Stewart, Tyrrell
1970 - Jochen Rindt, Lotus
1969 - Jackie Stewart, Matra
1968 - Graham Hill, Lotus
1967 - Denny Hulme, Brabham
1966 - Jack Brabham, Brabham
1965 - Jim Clark, Lotus
1964 - John Surtees, Ferrari
1963 - Jim Clark, Lotus
1962 - Graham Hill, BRM
1961 - Phil Hill, Ferrari
1960 - Jack Brabham, Cooper
1959 - Jack Brabham, Cooper
1958 - Mike Hawthorn, Ferrari
1957 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Maserati
1956 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Lancia/Ferrari
1955 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Mercedes
1954 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Mercedes/Maserati
1953 - Alberto Ascari, Ferrari
1952 - Alberto Ascari, Ferrari
1951 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo
1950 - Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo.

Hmmm....aren't the drivers in bold letters not in Ferrari's? Why, strike a light, they aren't!

So much for your claim of there being "one rule for them".

[Knock-on]

2007 - Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari
2006 - Fernando Alonso, Renault
2005 - Fernando Alonso, Renault
2004 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2003 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2002 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2001 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
2000 - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
1999 - Mika Hakkinen, McLaren
1998 - Mika Hakkinen, McLaren
1997 - Jacques Villeneuve, Williams
1996 - Damon Hill, Williams
1995 - Michael Schumacher, Benetton
1994 - Michael Schumacher, Benetton
1993 - Alain Prost, Williams

1993

Max took over the FIA during a period of McLaren dominance.

Do you dispute the long running battle between Ron and Max?

Slightly different story isn't it.

Your post confirms that Max's tenure as President of the FIA coincides with a downturn in McLarens fortunes and the most dominant period of Ferrari success in the history of Motorsport.

I really cannot see why you posted that as it confirms my arguement. After all, you can't argue against your own posts can you even if you can defend bias

1993

Max took over the FIA during a period of McLaren dominance.

Do you dispute the long running battle between Ron and Max?

Slightly different story isn't it.

Your post confirms that Max's tenure as President of the FIA coincides with a downturn in McLarens fortunes and the most dominant period of Ferrari success in the history of Motorsport.

I really cannot see why you posted that as it confirms my arguement. After all, you can't argue against your own posts can you even if you can defend bias

It merely confirms just how deluded you are.

So that's all Mosley's fault is it?

Nothing to do with Honda leaving at the end of 1992?
Nothing to do with Peugeot not being up to the job as engine suppliers in 1994?
Nothing to do with the 95 & 96 cars being very poor?
Nothing to do with the Schumi/Brawn/Byrne/Todt combination doing a fantastic job?

No, can't possibly be because somebody was doing a better job. After all, this is the faultless Mclaren we are talking about, the people who brought us the MP4/10.

But, if I can control my laughter, let's have a look......

Oh, here's something.....please explain how, with all the alleged bias against them, Mclaren won 2 titles from 1993 to 1999?

That's two more than Ferrari managed in the same period when, oh shucks, that man Mosley was in also in charge!

Surely that can't be right?

Oh, hold on, heres something else....Since, for example, Sauber didn't win any, does that mean the FIA & Mosley are even more biased against them?

Come to think of it, Sauber didn't win a GP until this June, so by your twisted logic they must be hated and despised down at the FIA, right?

So, enlighten us all....How come Mclaren won two titles to Ferrari's none in a period when the man you claim is biased towards Ferrari was in charge and you claim was operating a "one rule for them" policy?

[Daniel]

1993

Max took over the FIA during a period of McLaren dominance.

Do you dispute the long running battle between Ron and Max?

Slightly different story isn't it.

Your post confirms that Max's tenure as President of the FIA coincides with a downturn in McLarens fortunes and the most dominant period of Ferrari success in the history of Motorsport.

I really cannot see why you posted that as it confirms my arguement. After all, you can't argue against your own posts can you even if you can defend bias

How can you say this with no evidence?

1993

Max took over the FIA during a period of McLaren dominance.

Yep, 1992 & 1993 really had seen Mclaren dominate, hadn't they?

I hate to break it to you, but those Canon sponsored cars weren't built in Woking.

Slightly different story isn't it.

Your post confirms that Max's tenure as President of the FIA coincides with a downturn in McLarens fortunes and the most dominant period of Ferrari success in the history of Motorsport.

By my reckoning , the score since 1993 is Ferrari 6, Others 9.

Ferrari have, therefore, lost in 60% of those years in which Max has been in charge of the FIA.

Interesting notion of "bias" you have there.

[Knock-on]

By my reckoning , the score since 1993 is Ferrari 6, Others 9.

Ferrari have, therefore, lost in 60% of those years in which Max has been in charge of the FIA.

Interesting notion of "bias" you have there.

Since 93 it is 5 / 9 but including 93 it would be 6. I don't really think you can claim 93 as included in this though.

Now, remember the accusation that Max helped fix the MS / Benneton championship in a Hotel? (Please don't make me dig that up as we both know what I'm on about)

Hey mate, you posted the stats. Don't blame me if you don't like them now.

So what was the results before Max took over and after?

(no, you don't like that one do you)

OK, what percentage of championships were won by Ferrari since Max took over, what by McLare, Honda, Williams, Toyota, BMW.

What you're telling me is Ferrari have won almost as much as everyone else put together?

Personally, I don't think that such a stupid set of facts proves anything but you seem to think they do.

I would rather deal with specific instances like the current Chicanegate but you are just looking to post silly stats and how they support your claims.

Anyway, this isn't the end of the world. As long as Cern have better control over process and quality than the FIA has, we should all be here tomorrow.

Since 93 it is 5 / 9 but including 93 it would be 6. I don't really think you can claim 93 as included in this though.

Now, remember the accusation that Max helped fix the MS / Benneton championship in a Hotel?

Eh?

Ok........Firstly, thanks for enlightening me that Ferrari won the WDC in 1993. According to your statisitical understanding, they must have!

I think I might open a belated bottle of champagne, although to be honest, given how the FIA apparently would have loved such a victory, I'm surprised it's been kept quiet so long.

Now, I believe the correct score, not including 1993, would be Ferrari 6 Others 8.

That still makes Ferrari as being behind. Not great for a team with a set of rules specifically for them.

I'm not sure what Benetton in 1994 has to do with evidence that the FIA favour Ferrari and are biased towards Mclaren. Didn't realise that Hill ever drove for Mclaren.

I hate to break it to you, but those Rothmans sponsored cars weren't built in Woking either.

They were W I L L I A M S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WilliamsF1

So, other than making no sense, well done.

But any chance of actually enlightening us?