The Technical Regulations for 2010 (part 2)

[gloomyDAY]

What if the FIA allowed manufacturers' to have either FWD, RWD, or 4WD cars? That would add a lot of variety to the sport! I'm not sure it would be safe to see a RWD car on the snow banks of Sweden, but it would be fun to watch.

Again, can someone explain the difference between S2000 and S2000+?

[Saabaru]

S2000+ is what is being fought over right now. It should include a turbo, new rear wing, and hydraulic shift transmission. Those are the big changes they want anyway...

[Sulland]

S2000+ is what is being fought over right now. It should include a turbo, new rear wing, and hydraulic shift transmission. Those are the big changes they want anyway...

And I guess the stumbling block is how much each manufacturer will be able to make themselves, and how much they have to buy ready made.

Cost cost cost ! Keep it simple and cheap !

[Saabaru]

Yeah but ready made is never cheap, it creates a monopoly and the manufacture can charge whatever they want.

[OldF]

These are suppose to be the worlds most prestigious rally cars and cutting them down to S2000 would be a shame. I would be happy with S2000+ or even a Group N+. If you took a PWRC car and put the WRC wing, simpler hydraulic gear box, better brakes and a 40mm restrictor on it I would be ecstatic.

I think (or at least FIA thinks) a 40 mm restrictor is little too big. Rally cross cars with a 45 mm restrictor can produce about 550 hp. True a 40 mm restrictor can pass air to produce about 435 hp (402 / 452 = 0,79 * 550 = 434 hp). It’s possible to get almost 370 hp just by mapping and over 400 hp with mapping and upgraded exhaust pipe.

Original site in Finnish:
http://www.turbotec.com/etusivu/mitsubishi/index.html

Stage 1 = 243 kW = 330 hp
Stage 2 = 270 kW = 367 hp
Stage 3 = 300 kW = 408 hp

Translated site:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-8&sl=fi&tl=en

Tehonlisäys = more power
Testiautomme = our test car
Turbosarja = turbo kit
Hukkaportti = waste gate
Erikoisteräksestä = special steel
Viritysputkistoa = tuning pipe
Korvausputken = replacement pipe

FIA want also to lower the power of the new generation WRC cars to somewhere between the power of the present WRC cars and N4 cars. I would guess the new power figures could be around 330 hp.

IMO if the manufacturers cannot achieve agreement about the new WRC cars, FIA should continue as they’ve planned.

A S2000 with a turbo and intercooler would also be heavier than a S2000 which min. weight on gravel is 1200 kg. Let assume that the min. weight for a S2000+ would be 1250 kg and produce 330 hp, the weight/power ratio would be 3,79 kg/hp. Depending of how light a N4+ can be made without using any expensive light materials, the power should be adjusted to get the same weight/power ratio. A N4 weights about 1350 kg and if a N4+ has a min. weight of 1350 kg, it should produce 1350 / 3,79 = 356 hp. A 1300 kg N4+ should produce 1300 / 3,79 = 343 hp.

The two options would be:

S2000 based WRC: S2000 + turbo with boost limit and restrictor to produce about 330 hp + WRC rear wing.

N4 based WRC: N4 + boost limit and restrictor to produce 356 hp / 343 hp + S2000 suspension and brakes + S2000 body modification + WRC rear wing.

For the N4+ there could be two options for the gearbox.
1. Using the group N4 gearbox with active central diff and H-pattern.
2. Use a similar sequential gearbox as S2000 with mechanical LSD.

It seems that some manufacturers wants continue the old way but here are some interesting figures from SWRT’s web site (not very cheap parts):

Maximum boost - The Impreza's turbocharger
http://www.swrt.com/news/latest_news.html?id=1508

The Impreza WRC2007’s drivetrain in numbers
http://www.swrt.com/news/latest_news.html?id=1459

[Rally Power]

[quote="OldF"]

Great comment OldF, yours S2000+ suggestion it’s excellent and should be take on, but at this point it seems the choice is between actual S2000 or a “WRC disguised S2000+ formula” like some manufacturers wants.

Let’s hope it’ll be possible to get a balanced solution in order to make WRC cars more economical and accessible.

Beside this matter another problem about S2000+ is the proposed kit format.

I still cannot realize the interest of tuning and detuning rally cars if, from the start, they’re considered for different levels of rallying.

Could anyone understand that between courses (in 2 hours and with 8 mechanics!!!) Mclaren or Ferrari had to detuned their F1 cars in order to be used by GP2 teams ?????

Really, this kit issue is totally nonsense and besides its unpractical character there’s also the risk of affecting actual S2000 regulations.

In order to accommodate the S2000+ Kit elements, S2000 cars needed to be redesigned, generating new costs for this very balanced and competitive formula.

A distinct homologation process would be much more reasonable, with S2000+ being separated evolution units from previously existing S2000 cars (a bit like old days Gr. B).

With this method, manufacturers would construct a number of S2000 units according to today’s rules (for example 50, easily sold to regional and national costumers), plus a minimum of 10 S2000+ units to be used at WRC level, incorporating evolution components (even if far from today’s hi-Tec paraphernalia).

PS: with so many changes to N4 like you suggest, wouldn’t be easier to ban N4 and let S2000 be the only base for S2000+ ?

[AndyRAC]

I thought the thinking was a new formula so that we have more Manufacturers - not going to happen if the regs stay 'hi-tech'. The current Manufacturers will have to bite the bullet and accept a 'lower-tech' series, if the WRC is to prosper. That is how I see it - the sport is at a crossroads - which way are they going to go?
I've read of VW's

[AndyRAC]

I thought the thinking was a new formula so that we have more Manufacturers - not going to happen if the regs stay 'hi-tech'. The current Manufacturers will have to bite the bullet and accept a 'lower-tech' series, if the WRC is to prosper. That is how I see it - the sport is at a crossroads - which way are they going to go?
I've read of VW's interest with the Scirocco - let's hope so. I thought one of the ideas behind having Rally Deutschland was to encourage one of the big German makes into the sport - well it hasn't happened yet.

[rdr]

The two options would be:
S2000 based WRC: S2000 + turbo with boost limit and restrictor to produce about 330 hp

N4 based WRC: N4 + boost limit and restrictor to produce 356 hp / 343 hp

To get those figure inlet restrictor would be ~ 33 mm, boost limit (only) ~1,6-1,7 bar and but still get over +600 Nm torque.

[OldF]

To get those figure inlet restrictor would be ~ 33 mm, boost limit (only) ~1,6-1,7 bar and but still get over +600 Nm torque.

I had in mind an even lower boost limit. If you look at the chart in the link below you can see that the torque peak is 370 Nm @ 5500 rpm and power peak is 378 hp @ 8000 rpm (the red lines). With a suitable restrictor (that could be ~ 33 mm), the torque starts to decline right after the torque peak and the power is limited to 330 hp @ 7200 rpm. The boost I used in the calculations was 1,05 bar.

S2000+ power and torque chart:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...wer_Torque.jpg

My point with this lower boost limit is that, with a lower boost they have to use higher revs to achieve the power limit 330 hp or whatever it will be. I rather listen to car that is driven with revs between 6000 – 8000 rpm than some 4000 – 6000 rpm as the present WRC cars not to talk about the group N cars. The torque would not be so high but compared to a S2000 (250 Nm) the S2000+ would have about 120 Nm (48 %) more torque.

IMO there should also be a min. weight for the engine otherwise they put much effort on getting the engine lighter and putting ballasts at the rear (as Christian Loriaux said in interview at Crash net http://www.crash.net/motorsport/radi...3/content.html / WRC » Loriaux talks to Rallycourse & Crash.Net Radio)

Similar boost result I also got when I used your figures. 370 Nm / 600 Nm * 1,7 bar = 1,05 bar.
370 Nm / 600 Nm * 1,6 bar = 0,99 bar.

What the boost and diameter of the restrictor would be in practice, I think the engineers of FIA could figure out, as they successfully did with the 34 mm restrictor for the grp A and WRC cars to limit the power to 300 hp.

The equations I used I found on this web site: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html