Openwheel drivers to NASCAR

[woody2goody]

Not sure where you're getting this "snobby" nonsense from. I've noticed that the open-wheel drivers have been very welcome. I think you're the one with the "snobby" issue. I think you've been reading the open-wheel/nascar-hate websites and nothing else.

No. And I've never even seen an open-wheel/NASCAR hate website.

You mentioned Sam Hornish. He and Franchitti were given cars with spots in the top 35 in points for the first 5 races(that they didn't earn by the way), and in three races they have both dropped out of the top 35 for this year.

To put it simply, they were given an 5 race head start and haven't been able to keep up.

Hornish got wrecked in California and Atlanta. Not sure about Dario, but he has struggled. He'll be alright it's just he'll need time to adjust.

Jacques Villeneuve (and I'm a huge fan of his, atteneded many F1 races to see him race) was a victim of his long time association with Craig Pollock. Nothing new.

I can see Pollock being a problem, but he was still booted too quickly by BDR in my opinion.

I don't know anyone who doesn't like Montoya. He's doing very well.

Fair enough. But I've still heard rumblings in the off season saying 'JPM has to deliver or he's not good enough'.

Lord have mercy, where are you coming up with that non-sense. A lot of people get opportunities in NASCAR, whereas Formula One is one of the most "closed-shop" organizations on the face of the earth. If you want to show up and race at NASCAR, you are welcome to try (if you meet some minimum experience standards and have a legal car).

Can you do the same in Formula One? No effin' way!!!! If you're not part of the Concorde Agreement, don't bother.

I myself have said many times that F1 should be more open and accessible to more drivers. But if there was a turn up and go mentality in F1, some cars would be terribly slow and would get blown away. You can tell that there is a difference between bigger and smaller teams in the NASCAR pitlane, but that difference is probably only 0.5 seconds a lap (a lot on an oval, yes), whereas in F1 it would be more than 5 seconds with the rate of technology and development that the top teams have. Even many of the factory teams in F1 struggle to keep up with the pace. That's why the Concorde Agreement is there.

Your prejudice against NASCAR is showing.

How does that make you think I have a predjudice against NASCAR? I love NASCAR, and if you notice, I make several good comments about NASCAR and it's drivers. I would watch NASCAR every weekend if I could, but I ony get an hour's highlights every week. NASCAR is a fantastic spectacle, and I have the utmost respect for the guys that slug it out on those ovals.

When I said it was easy to run a fast lap at Daytona, that would be without any other cars there. I believe I could qualify a car at Daytona and get within a couple of seconds (in the best car). But put me into a race and I would be useless, and frankly dangerous. The skill in NASCAR isn't as much in driving the tracks (although that is still significant), than racing in a pack, knowing when to push the tyres, conserving fuel and not taking out a guy when you try to pass them.

Sorry, I know enough about Formula One to know just how full of holes your arguments are.

And I know enough about NASCAR to know that your arguments aren't watertight either

It just seems to me that both series don't give each other enough credit. And IRL and Champ Car come into that as well. I wouldn't moan if Kasey Kahne or Jeff Gordon was put into an F1 car over, say Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll or someone like that, because I know that whoever was put into the car has earned it. I just wish SOME fans were the same, fans of BOTH series.

[woody2goody]

Sorry, Hornish got wrecked at Las Vegas, not Atlanta. My bad

[Lee Roy]

No. And I've never even seen an open-wheel/NASCAR hate website.

They're called open-wheel forums. There's one on this webpage. Right now, it's pretty well policed for NASCAR Hate Talk. But in the past, according to many there, and on many on other open-wheel forums that I have visited, because I am a NASCAR fan:

I weigh 450 pounds;
I'm uneducated;
Work for minimum wage (when I do work);
Not only am I married to my sister, but my parents were also first cousins;
I have a maximum of 2 teeth;
My abode is a trailer;
etc., etc., etc,

NASCAR drivers and other people involved in NASCAR get no respect either.

That's what I'm talking about.

Hornish got wrecked in California and Atlanta. Not sure about Dario, but he has struggled. He'll be alright it's just he'll need time to adjust.

Again, Hornish and Franchitti, hot-shot Indy 500 winners and IRL Champs, got unearned 5 race head starts this year, and they can't keep up.

They will get guaranteed starts this weekend at Bristol, but if they underperform again, they will be "Go Or Go Home" cars at Martinsville, and I have my doubts that they have the experience be able to qualify there.

I can see Pollock being a problem, but he was still booted too quickly by BDR in my opinion.

He lost out because his promised sponsorship didn't come through. As much as I love Jacques, he was lost in a Cup car. He needs to spend a year in ARCA, and maybe a year in the Trucks and Nationwide series. Bill Davis Racing is not rich enough to carry him in a Cup car as a "learning experience". And why can't a former Indy 500 winner, CART and World Champion get sponsorship????

Fair enough. But I've still heard rumblings in the off season saying 'JPM has to deliver or he's not good enough'.

That's between Montoya and Ganassi and their sponsors.

I myself have said many times that F1 should be more open and accessible to more drivers. But if there was a turn up and go mentality in F1, some cars would be terribly slow and would get blown away. You can tell that there is a difference between bigger and smaller teams in the NASCAR pitlane, but that difference is probably only 0.5 seconds a lap (a lot on an oval, yes), whereas in F1 it would be more than 5 seconds with the rate of technology and development that the top teams have. Even many of the factory teams in F1 struggle to keep up with the pace. That's why the Concorde Agreement is there.

Oh lord, where did you make up that non-sense from. The Concorde Agreement is an agreement on how F1 will operate and how the financial proceeds will be distributed. F1 is a closed shop because they want it that way to keep the value of the teams up. If you want to play in F1 you have to spend millions upon millions to purchase an existing team.

I recall when they did allow teams that wanted to, to participate. They had a pre-qualifying system, much like NASCAR's guaranteed 35 starting spots. As a matter of fact, NASCAR's guaranteed 35 is almost a complete copy in many ways. They now have a CLOSED SHOP. If you aren't in the club, don't bother to show up.

It just seems to me that both series don't give each other enough credit. And IRL and Champ Car come into that as well. I wouldn't moan if Kasey Kahne or Jeff Gordon was put into an F1 car over, say Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll or someone like that, because I know that whoever was put into the car has earned it. I just wish SOME fans were the same, fans of BOTH series.

I've been a big fan of both F1 and NASCAR for years. I tried to be a fan of CART, but I was driven off by the hatefulness of the fans. (See above.) F1 is good enough to make it worthwhile to wade through the non-sense of some of those fans.

It has been my experience that NASCAR and it's fans have given much more respect to other racing series than they have ever received. In the past, you haven't seen threads bashing other racing series on NASCAR forums like you constantly see NASCAR bashing threads on open-wheel fourms.

I think that the Open-wheel drivers have been given much respect, but they are finding out that the Cup level in NASCAR is much more difficult than they thought it would be. That's life. There are always other drivers waiting in the wings to take their place if they can't keep up. Being from "open-wheel" doesn't make them "special". Sorry

[woody2goody]

I agree with you about the open-wheel forums. That's just plain insulting to NASCAR fans. They should do something better with their life than slag off NASCAR. I wouldn't ever make that assupmtion.

Hornish has been unlucky though you have to admit. Bristol and Martinsville are a test of your credentials that's for sure.

I wondered that about JV's sponsorship. And howTravis Kvapil had it for Daytona and not afterwards. I saw that Bobby Labonte, a former champion, doesn't have a sponsor for his Nationwide car either. Strange times. I agree with you that the trucks would be a great place for him to learn with less pressure. He already has some Truck starts under his belt so that could bode well. Especially now he could joust with fellow ex-F1er Scott Speed.

I get what you say about the Concorde Agreement, but I read in magazines and on websites that the Concorde Agreement for 26, then 24 cars was put in place by Bernie Ecclestone, who wanted to 'tidy up' 'his' show, and not have teams and drivers involved who couldn't compete at the highest level. He was more concerned with F1's image than it's accessiblity. this is why he dictated the finances, and put in place the $48 million entry bond, which is ridiculous in my opinion.

I personally don't agree with NASCAR's top 35 rule. I think everyone should have to to pre-qualify, with, for example, last year's top-12 drivers getting 1 provisional each, and maybe past champions should get an extra one. Just one mind you. that way they could get away with one bad qualifying, but not two. And a missed race would be a disaster if you fighting for the championship.

NASCAR does seem to respect other series, but it doesn't really recognise achievements as much. I know that F1 doesn't sometimes respect NASCAR, or the DTM, or Champ Car/IRL. I'm not happy about that, because, especially after a couple of years as a NASCAR fan, I definitely appreciate other series' achievements more than I used to.

[e2mtt]

Scott Speed finishes tenth in truck race at Martinsville (his second career Truck race)

This guy is trying to work up through the ranks the right way... and I think he is the real deal.

Some quotes:

"Those guys are really aggressive," Speed said. "For the first half of the race I was like 'Are you guys kidding me? We've got just 20 or 50 laps in!' Everyone told me going in to be cool, save your brakes and try to keep the car together, and now I know why. It's because everyone's crazy."

"I'm definitely happy," he said. "The patience part honestly, that and being smart and thinking, is the best part of my game, so for me this track plays into my personality. The hard part is to figure out which guys are nuts and which guys are crazy."

[ShiftingGears]

Scott Speed finishes tenth in truck race at Martinsville (his second career Truck race)

This guy is trying to work up through the ranks the right way... and I think he is the real deal.

Some quotes:

Yep - good luck to him as well!

[woody2goody]

I agree. i liked him in Formula One, but a mixture of bad team management and horrendous luck with mechanical failures/accidents halted his progress somewhat. He wasn't any better than Liuzzi but you could tell he was improving before he was booted out by STR.

It's good that he's doing the truck races to work his way up. I'm surprised Villeneuve isn't trying to do truck races but there you go.

Some props to Juan Pablo after Phoenix; he is 15th in the standings without a single top 10 finish. He's been very consistent and has kept out of trouble the last few weeks. he's only about 50 points of a top 12 position at the moment.

[ShiftingGears]

Well done to Speed, who won his first ARCA race. He is the most likely ex-OW driver to succeed.

[ShiftingGears]

Well done to Speed, who won his first ARCA race. He is the most likely ex-OW driver to succeed.

After Montoya...

[Placid]

Prior to the next round at Montreal, David Coulthard will make a visit this week
and observe the Red Bull Toyota team.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...27002747.shtml