McLaren must wait for 2008 car clearance

**mstillhere** · 18th December 2007, 14:37

Originally Posted by PSfan

And at the end of the day, what really is shamefull is that McLaren fanatics are all up in arms about Renault not getting punished, complaining of FIA bias when Renault admit to everything, and we end up getting a [redacted – offensive] hearing like this, while Mac is suspected of worse, admit to less, and apologize for it, and that hearing is gonna be called off? [redacted – offensive] [redacted – offensive] [redacted – offensive] [redacted – offensive] [redacted – offensive]!!!

Hear! Hear! Hear!!!!!!!!!!!! I totally second that!!

**jso1985** · 18th December 2007, 23:50

Originally Posted by ioan

I'm having hard time understanding how anyone can be the fan or supporter of a team of proven liars and cheaters?!
Really, to support or like a team you have to identify yourself, at least a little bit, with their way of doing things. And in McLaren's case it isn't obvious what kind of positives are there to identify yourself with. :\

maybe because McLaren is much more than just the 2007 spy scandal?

or I could ask how could you kept being a Schumacher fan after the 97 season when it was sort of clear that he was a dirty driver without much sporting sense?

**wmcot** · 19th December 2007, 06:09

Originally Posted by jso1985

maybe because McLaren is much more than just the 2007 spy scandal?

or I could ask how could you kept being a Schumacher fan after the 97 season when it was sort of clear that he was a dirty driver without much sporting sense?

To paraphrase your words, "97 was much more than one corner!"

**ioan** · 19th December 2007, 09:30

Originally Posted by jso1985

maybe because McLaren is much more than just the 2007 spy scandal?

or I could ask how could you kept being a Schumacher fan after the 97 season when it was sort of clear that he was a dirty driver without much sporting sense?

He didn't lie about it!

**SGWilko** · 19th December 2007, 09:44

Originally Posted by ioan

He didn't lie about it!

I think the '94 incident at Adelaide was more of a black spot on the Schumi register, he was quite coy for some time about that, claiming the car damage caused him to turn the wheel and hit Hill. Schumi was also quite personally nasty about Hill's family, although he did apologise at a later date......

That for me, kicked off my dislike for Michael. I still respect his achievments, and think he has natural talent in bucketloads, he was/is just too ruthless and that blots hits copybook for me......

**ArrowsFA1** · 19th December 2007, 10:17

Originally Posted by ioan

He didn't lie about it!

This is what he had to say in the immediate aftermath of Jerez:

"I do not feel I made a mistake. I was called to see the Stewards after the race, but that is just normal procedure as the marshals have to make a report about the incident. As expected, no action was taken against me."

It was only after the general condemnation of his actions, and the announcement of a FIA hearing, that on the Tuesday after the race MS admitted he had made a mistake.

Had it been Ron Dennis, and not Michael Schumacher, I suspect you may have said he lied about it.

**BDunnell** · 19th December 2007, 10:47

This sort of discussion sums up why I can rarely be bothered to post here any more. Too many people here aren't real F1 fans at all, and have memories that are so selective and short-termist that they are unable to contribute much of interest. I say this despite my change of view on the McLaren punishment.

**Rollo** · 19th December 2007, 12:00

Does anyone know what was brought to bear to Ligier over the JS41, which was for all intents and purposes a copy of the B194 but with Mugen power?

The question is to do with what sort of intellectual property McLaren has absorbed and how you in fact prove that on the new car. My obvious question is to do with scruitneering - ie/ if all cars are FIA approved in the first place and checked, who at the FIA didn't do their job when similar bits started appearing on rival's cars? How do you prove that they did or didn't?

As a fan, we're so far removed from the technical data, that it scarcely matters for us, but for the teams themselves, it equates to loads and loads of nicker.

**markabilly** · 19th December 2007, 13:24

So bottom line, name one thing that has really changed?

One thing, other than Mac has a lighter pocketbook, and Bernie still wants hamster to have a WDC to enhance revenue?

Nothing

Well okay something--let the cheaters get away with anything as long as it is good for revenue

**SGWilko** · 19th December 2007, 13:29

Originally Posted by Rollo

Does anyone know what was brought to bear to Ligier over the JS41, which was for all intents and purposes a copy of the B194 but with Mugen power?

The question is to do with what sort of intellectual property McLaren has absorbed and how you in fact prove that on the new car. My obvious question is to do with scruitneering - ie/ if all cars are FIA approved in the first place and checked, who at the FIA didn't do their job when similar bits started appearing on rival's cars? How do you prove that they did or didn't?

As a fan, we're so far removed from the technical data, that it scarcely matters for us, but for the teams themselves, it equates to loads and loads of nicker.

That is a good point there Rollo, although IIRC the Ligier was hardly at the sharp end of the grid that season. The other comparison is probably the Sauber (can't remember which year) which some poeple up and down the pit lane thought looked a lot like the previous years Ferrari, again, they were no t challenging for wins though.....

I guess the conclusion on the scrutineers is that they no zip all......?