McLaren must wait for 2008 car clearance

[truefan72]

I say if even the slightest little thing on the 2008 Mac is derived from the Ferrari designs, even ifs its just a cup holder, I say banish them for 08 and 09, and if another team steps in to fill their spot in 09, then good ridence

LOL

where is your sense of outrage over the years of Ferrari impropriety

according to you Ferrari would still be waiting to get back into the sport

LOL

please. IP sharing and stuff has been going on since the 1930's
it isn't a new phenomenon and generall was handled with gentlemans agreements and such. It is only as recentas 2007 that this false outrage has been taken up with the FIa and thus opening a pandora's box andhuge grey area.

Let's not go crazy now with draconian bans becuase you don't like a team or a driver, or principle.

I'm no ferrari fan but can't envision F1 without them, or McClaren, or Williams for that matter.

[ioan]

Ioan I must say, that is well put and agree with that statement.

Thanks, it's rare but we agree on fundamental aspects every now and then.

[ClarkFan]

Well, the WMSC report makes things clearer, doesn't it? Either the report is way off base, or McLaren just needs enough time to paint their cars red.....

ClarkFan

[wmcot]

But McLaren have apologized and said that they won't use the "copied" systems in question so we should just let them off and trust their "integrity?"

[PSfan]

LOL

where is your sense of outrage over the years of Ferrari impropriety

according to you Ferrari would still be waiting to get back into the sport

LOL

As I stated previosly this year, I am truly amazed that another formula 1 team could upstage ferrari as the team I dislike most in F1.

However, my dislike for Ferrari being known, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that in the 15-20 years has Ferrari actions have down anything that would warrant me suggesting a race ban let alone exclusion from complete seasons.

please. IP sharing and stuff has been going on since the 1930's
it isn't a new phenomenon and generall was handled with gentlemans agreements and such. It is only as recentas 2007 that this false outrage has been taken up with the FIa and thus opening a pandora's box andhuge grey area.

Granprix.com suggested following the 100m verdict that this "spying" was widespread, and that McLeran could come out and expose such going ons... Who did they select as their first target? Renault, based on information they where made aware of by Renault shortly after their punishment. IF this form of spying is as WIDE SPREAD as you and grandprix.com want to make it sound, then McLeran would have picked a better target, maybe one that they would have better evidence as to actually USING the questionable material, instead of a team that practicaly supplied all the evidence themselves!!!

Let's not go crazy now with draconian bans becuase you don't like a team or a driver, or principle.

Yah, because FIA has never kicked a team out of a sport they govern before... they are so above those draconian measures...

I'm no ferrari fan but can't envision F1 without them, or McClaren, or Williams for that matter.

"McClaren" made their own bed, but lucky for the McLeran fans, Max also cannot see F1 without McLeran either.

[ioan]

"McClaren" made their own bed, but lucky for the McLeran fans, Max also cannot see F1 without McLeran either.

I'm having hard time understanding how anyone can be the fan or supporter of a team of proven liars and cheaters?!
Really, to support or like a team you have to identify yourself, at least a little bit, with their way of doing things. And in McLaren's case it isn't obvious what kind of positives are there to identify yourself with. :\

[mstillhere]

LOL

where is your sense of outrage over the years of Ferrari impropriety

according to you Ferrari would still be waiting to get back into the sport

LOL.

You know, even if are laughing off the McLAren misdeeds, I am surprised to see you so harsh against Ferrari. Although, I don't recall ever Ferrari being involved in such shamefull cheating. Ferrari has been caught, like many other teams cheating in the past (although Mclaren fans seem to recall only the FERRARI bad episodes) and they have been punished and that was the end of it. I have never seen in my entire life a team cheating, being punished for cheating, told to stop cheating and caught AGAIN cheating withing a couple months from their "exemplary" punishement. In light of their own deeds I dont think they gave a s..... about their "examplary" fine. Their arrogance IS blinding them to the point that thay are ready to cheat AGAIN as soon as they are going to have the opportunity.

[truefan72]

You know, even if are laughing off the McLAren misdeeds, I am surprised to see you so harsh against Ferrari. Although, I don't recall ever Ferrari being involved in such shamefull cheating. Ferrari has been caught, like many other teams cheating in the past (although Mclaren fans seem to recall only the FERRARI bad episodes) and they have been punished and that was the end of it. I have never seen in my entire life a team cheating, being punished for cheating, told to stop cheating and caught AGAIN cheating withing a couple months from their "exemplary" punishement. In light of their own deeds I dont think they gave a s..... about their "examplary" fine. Their arrogance IS blinding them to the point that thay are ready to cheat AGAIN as soon as they are going to have the opportunity.

seriously,

I like Kimi and Massa, and used to own a ferrari myself ( albeit 2nd hand)
But I have never been a fan of the way Ferrari have gone about their F1 business. I don't root against them,(which doesn't mean I cheer them either) andif they win they win.I am more of a LH fan than a McClaren fan if he went to ferrari then I would be rooting for him to win. ( not the team)


Ferrari have been fined for actions that they were found guilty of and not all the other actions that we all know they broke the rules, or were unsporting.
Historically and more in recent years the fIa has seen fit to protect their favorite team, offer them a secrect aggreement, show on more than one occasion extreme favoritism, while simoultaneously dealing with their competitors in a harsher manner, That is the crux of my issue with Ferrari.

And to be honest, they have done more shameful things in the past than what McClaren did. Which was to be in possesion of IP information, discussing it and not disclosing the full extent of those who knew about the info. (wow an earh shattering crime)

Ferrari on the other hand used a clearly illegal component on their car for half a season and gained considerable advantage on the track by doing so,and instead of being thrown out of the competion, the FIA simply made that component legal.

In the past, they have used illegal brake systems, air ducts, engine systems, modulation, areodynamic components, etc, etc etc, and how many of those times have they been fined or let alone found guilty, assesed $100 dollar fines, or thrown out of the competion.

You may choose to see what you want to see, but most racing fans would generally agree that Ferrari have received more than their share of dubious judgements go their way in F1.

btw, McClaren were not found guilty of "cheating" and were not told to stop and re-cheated again as you assert. They were not caught again cheating, in fact that whole statement is simply wrong.

please know what they were punished for, and why the FIA and ferrari have now deemed this matter closed.

[mstillhere]

seriously,

I like Kimi and Massa, and used to own a ferrari myself ( albeit 2nd hand)
But I have never been a fan of the way Ferrari have gone about their F1 business. I don't root against them,(which doesn't mean I cheer them either) andif they win they win.I am more of a LH fan than a McClaren fan if he went to ferrari then I would be rooting for him to win. ( not the team)


Ferrari have been fined for actions that they were found guilty of and not all the other actions that we all know they broke the rules, or were unsporting.
Historically and more in recent years the fIa has seen fit to protect their favorite team, offer them a secrect aggreement, show on more than one occasion extreme favoritism, while simoultaneously dealing with their competitors in a harsher manner, That is the crux of my issue with Ferrari.

And to be honest, they have done more shameful things in the past than what McClaren did. Which was to be in possesion of IP information, discussing it and not disclosing the full extent of those who knew about the info. (wow an earh shattering crime)

Ferrari on the other hand used a clearly illegal component on their car for half a season and gained considerable advantage on the track by doing so,and instead of being thrown out of the competion, the FIA simply made that component legal.

In the past, they have used illegal brake systems, air ducts, engine systems, modulation, areodynamic components, etc, etc etc, and how many of those times have they been fined or let alone found guilty, assesed $100 dollar fines, or thrown out of the competion.

You may choose to see what you want to see, but most racing fans would generally agree that Ferrari have received more than their share of dubious judgements go their way in F1.

btw, McClaren were not found guilty of "cheating" and were not told to stop and re-cheated again as you assert. They were not caught again cheating, in fact that whole statement is simply wrong.

please know what they were punished for, and why the FIA and ferrari have now deemed this matter closed.

As I said, Ferrari has been caught cheating and so have many other teams. But once these teams got caught, they stopped. That's where McLaren "stands out", compared to everyone else. They did not stop cheating until when they got caught the SECOND time in a row. I mean, if that's not arrogance and deep rooted dishonesty, I don't know what it is. What I find annoying is the stament that makes FERRARI's cheating, fro some reason, worse than anybody else's. Cheating is cheating. And as we know, it does not have a nationalty nor color. Period! I have not idea what's making McLaren's cheating "soooo silly". Their repeated offenses were clearly against not only of the FIA rules but also, mind you, of the legal system (and I don't think you find Ferrari involved in anythink like that) and I would not be surprised (nor should you) if McLaren will have to suffer further punishments by the law this time (like for Toyota). So if its "case close' for the FIA and McLaren I don't think the same can be said for Ferrari. What McLaren has done goes beyond what has been the "routinly" cheating we have seen in F1 over the years. It goes into the legal (the real law). So dismissing the whole thing with a: "So what? Everybody else (read: Ferrari, right?) is cheating" kind of attitude, is a little too superficial and not an accurate understanding of the situation, especially after the admissions of McLaren team itself.
PS Do you really think that LH is the only one in the whole McLaren team that did not know anything about the Ferrari secrets? Hum......

[wmcot]

PS Do you really think that LH is the only one in the whole McLaren team that did not know anything about the Ferrari secrets? Hum......

Yeah, but his dad knew and didn't tell him!