Renault investigated by FIA !

[BDunnell]

And cheaper than paying a photograph to take all those needed pictures, not to mention the wind tunnel costs!

I'd do the shots for nothing — apart from a paddock pass. And I'd do them for either Super Aguri or Force India, because no-one would care.

[PSfan]

A $100 fine? Sounds reasonable to me.

Thats $100 in PSfan dollars, after exchange, it would end up being about $100 Million in US dollars. : Hard to give a proper figure since the US dollar seems to be dropping so fast. So on a side note, was the original fine in US dollars or in pounds? If it was expected in US currency then MacLeran will have to pay alot less now then when the punishment was handed out.

[passmeatissue]

Can I make a prediction? Only very slightly a diversion...

For 2009 McLaren will recruit an engineer from Ferrari, with evidence that the data the FIA "squad" took from McLaren last week ended up in Ferrari. Having been vetted there for ideas.

The squad, if you haven't read about it, refused to sign confidentiality agreements. And I can't see how anyone but Ferrari people are supposed to check for Ferrari ideas in what they took away. Or any other reason to take stuff away.

Maybe transparency will eventually reveal something better.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'd do the shots for nothing — apart from a paddock pass. And I'd do them for either Super Aguri or Force India, because no-one would care.

One question which I'm not sure has been answered amid all these 'theft of IP' cases is why did Ferrari challenge Toyota through the courts (and not the FIA), and McLaren via the FIA (and the courts)?

What was the difference between the cases? Were they more sure of their legal case against Toyota? Were there legal differences between the cases? Or was it that no-one cared enough about a team that wasn't a threat?

The same applies to McLaren. Why would they not prosecute their former employee, and/or Renault, for theft of IP through the courts?

[ioan]

One question which I'm not sure has been answered amid all these 'theft of IP' cases is why did Ferrari challenge Toyota through the courts (and not the FIA), and McLaren via the FIA (and the courts)?

What was the difference between the cases? Were they more sure of their legal case against Toyota? Were there legal differences between the cases? Or was it that no-one cared enough about a team that wasn't a threat?

I think I already answered this once not so long ago.
As you say they didn't go to the FIA cause the team was new, didn't won anything, were not going to have a TV income in their first year.

On the other hand, as in the McLaren case with Stepney and Coughlan, Ferrari took the offending employees to legal court.

It looks similar to me.

[BDunnell]

I think I already answered this once not so long ago.
As you say they didn't go to the FIA cause the team was new, didn't won anything, were not going to have a TV income in their first year.

In which case, the moral of the tale is that you can get all the dodgy info you like if you're a new team. I don't think that's right at all.

[ioan]

In which case, the moral of the tale is that you can get all the dodgy info you like if you're a new team. I don't think that's right at all.

You're right it isn't. Or maybe it wasn't, because I believe that from now on this kind of things might stop. At least I hope so.

[PSfan]

Well from what I could gather looking at news archives is, in regards to the Toyota affair, it seems in 2003 (their 2nd season) there was suspicion that Toyota where using Ferrari designs, but formal charges weren't laid until sometime in 2005, so I suspect that their wasn't enough evidence until it would have been a moot point anyways probably mid 2004.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19067.html

Whats more interesting is that there is no longer much mention about Spyker having possession of the Red Bull/ Toro Rosso designs earlier this year... FIA seemed to ignore that... once again it seems a determining factor is what you do with the stolen property, or perhaps attempt to...

[wmcot]

Whats more interesting is that there is no longer much mention about Spyker having possession of the Red Bull/ Toro Rosso designs earlier this year... FIA seemed to ignore that... once again it seems a determining factor is what you do with the stolen property, or perhaps attempt to...

With Spyker you would have to determine who to fine. Was the data in the possession of Spyker or Midland or maybe back to Jordan. Then again, you might get some money from Force India! Even the FIA can't hit a target that moves that fast!

[Malbec]

One question which I'm not sure has been answered amid all these 'theft of IP' cases is why did Ferrari challenge Toyota through the courts (and not the FIA), and McLaren via the FIA (and the courts)?

I don't believe Ferrari ever legally challenged Toyota through the courts. The police had evidence that Toyota employees had committed a crime and therefore didn't need permission from the 'victim' to investigate and prosecute.

I also think that the FIA made a big error in not investigating Toyota, after all the IP theft there had been proven in criminal courts with a higher burden of proof then the FIA has ever required, it should have been an open and shut case with only the degree of punishment up for discussion.

The appearance of being inconsistent with letting Toyota get away with it despite overwhelming evidence and two criminal judgments against them whilst investigating and punishing McLaren hard with less evidence doesn't put the FIA in a good light.