Hyundai WRT

[wyler]

So this is the classic "chicken-and-egg" debate we have here. You are saying that protomer thinks out how to promote the series, how to generate revenue and then teams will decide if it is worthy enough to participate. What I say is that the series itself needs to appeal first and foremost fans, who want to watch it, manufacturers, journalists, host countries etc. If the FIA's technical rules result in an uncompetitive, boring, expensive championship, the promoter is essentially being asked to sell a flawed product. And I think this is the case why noone wants to buy promoter rights. You cannot promote your way out of a bad sport.

that's not chicken-egg. it's just cause and effect.
what do u mean exactly "the series itself needs to appeal ..."? who's "the series"? it's the promoter that set up the series...they decide almost everything! yes, it is fia that extend the regulations, but who has the bigger say on it? it's the promoter! who decides to go to small or bigger cars? who decides the way to attract more manufacturers? it's the promoter. they also decides where to race, service park location, remote service or not, length and format of the itinerary, and so on.

if u don't believe me, just check around:
"The championship format, television coverage and promotional activities will be developed in partnership with the new promoter."
https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-set-for...ne-approaches/

"The new promoter will carry significant responsibility in trying to grow the WRC’s visibility and popularity in the coming years." [about promoter speaking to drivers] " Neuville has long proposed even radical changes to the WRC. For example, he has suggested that rallies could vary more in format – Safari Rally Kenya could be run as a multi-day marathon event, while the ultra-fast Rally Finland could be completed over a couple of days. Neuville believes the new promoter will listen carefully to drivers’ views. “The plan they have is basically something I spoke about already seven or eight years ago..."
and so on. this show how much they're involved.they don't get the fia package to work with. they set up the package with fia.

The promoter can schedule 50 hours of live TV airtime on Rally.tv, but if the product is boring, fans won't subscribe, and TV networks won't buy the broadcasting rights.

exactly. but still, it is the promoter that decides to show serderidis more than a wrc2 battle, where to put the cameras, when to do interviews, what stages goes on live tv...and even what to do with the footage, what format to sell to broadcaster, who will do the editing production of that content.

Do you remember time in F1, when all the teams wanted to have "air time" so the f1 qualifying was like all the drivers went out one by one and then all of them got the exact media coverage? Well guess what... no one wanted to see backmarkers. Everyone wants to watch competition. This is the reason we do and watch sport. As the classic quote goes: If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?

tha's again is a fan perspective. that is legit, don't get me wrong. but it is not the main concern in the buttons room. audi, cadillac, haas and many others have no possibility to win, yet, they're there year and years even without podiums. there's worth for them besides the score, evidently.

You are 100% cherry picking here mate. You can't take the whole history and say this is CURRENTLY a great car. You are as good as your last rally and Hyundai and M-Sport are not doing good. Lets look at the top categories (WRC2 and EWRC) where all the top drivers compete. Last win in WRC2 for Hyundai was in 2022 New Zealand. Last win for M-Sport was in 2021 Monza. In ERC it was in 2024 for Hyundai and in 2025 for Ford. Before that Ford won last time in 2020. This is pure statistics.

mate, i literally said "take the ewrc result page on every of the last weeks, and you'll find even that car in the top 5/10 in regional rally."
in erc they literally won 2 of the last 3 championships, being 2nd in the last, with 2 o/a win for ford. that's not enough recent times? 25, as u report, is literally the last season. i used the same statistics as you. pelamorgues (not really an elite driver), was 3rd this year at monte wrc2). again, as u can read in a more elaborate post above, i didnt say they're great. i said CURRENTLY they're good enough to compete, cause there's no huge difference between the rally2 cars. statistics say so.

[flat_right]

that's not chicken-egg. it's just cause and effect.
what do u mean exactly "the series itself needs to appeal ..."? who's "the series"?

What I meant "the series itself needs to appeal" is that to the promoter to sell the product to the TV stations, fans, younger generation etc, it has to be exciting to watch and there needs to be competition. Basically all today's sport is built on different narratives and rivalries, which they then try to sell. But if you don't have teams competing with each other, Toyota gets 1-3 basically every time, then it gets boring very fast.

who's "the series"? it's the promoter that set up the series...they decide almost everything! yes, it is fia that extend the regulations, but who has the bigger say on it? it's the promoter! who decides to go to small or bigger cars? who decides the way to attract more manufacturers? it's the promoter. they also decides where to race, service park location, remote service or not, length and format of the itinerary, and so on.

You are over romanticizing the promoter's role here. They play a part in the rulemaking, but they do not have a "bigger say." The rules are decided by the WRC Commission, which comprises voting members from all current manufacturers, the WRC Promoter, and a representative of the crews. And before that, there is WRC Technical Working Group, who thinks out all the technical details. Promoter doesn't know shit about restrictor sizes or safety cell designs. Additionally, there are the FIA and other WRC stakeholders who play apart in this process. They all work together, but to say that the promoter calls the shots is a massive exaggeration. Or you think that the promoter wanted to go for WRC2 cars for 2027? So this is the best thing we will sell? I doubt.

Where does promoter have a say? How to PROMOTE the sport. It includes media coverage, tv rights, what events are in the calendar, event standards, digital and social media etc. But this has nothing to do how the competition looks like, what are the technical regulations etc and this is what I have been trying to tell you all the time. If this part is bad, there is nothing to promote.

if u don't believe me, just check around:
"The championship format, television coverage and promotional activities will be developed in partnership with the new promoter."
https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-set-for...ne-approaches/

"The new promoter will carry significant responsibility in trying to grow the WRC’s visibility and popularity in the coming years." [about promoter speaking to drivers] " Neuville has long proposed even radical changes to the WRC. For example, he has suggested that rallies could vary more in format – Safari Rally Kenya could be run as a multi-day marathon event, while the ultra-fast Rally Finland could be completed over a couple of days. Neuville believes the new promoter will listen carefully to drivers’ views. “The plan they have is basically something I spoke about already seven or eight years ago..."
and so on. this show how much they're involved.they don't get the fia package to work with. they set up the package with fia.

Yes, exactly. Based on that, nothing about the cars is decided by the promoter. This is what I was talking about all the time. We could drive backwards but if there is no competition, nobody won't watch it.

mate, i literally said "take the ewrc result page on every of the last weeks, and you'll find even that car in the top 5/10 in regional rally."
in erc they literally won 2 of the last 3 championships, being 2nd in the last, with 2 o/a win for ford. that's not enough recent times? 25, as u report, is literally the last season. i used the same statistics as you. pelamorgues (not really an elite driver), was 3rd this year at monte wrc2). again, as u can read in a more elaborate post above, i didnt say they're great. i said CURRENTLY they're good enough to compete, cause there's no huge difference between the rally2 cars. statistics say so.

Just give up, this is a battle you can't win. No one cares about the regional level. We need to see where the best drivers are and this is WRC2 and ERC. We can end this with one answer - if you could choose a car to compete in any series and you need to win, what would you choose?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Hyundai and M-Sport cars can't win. If you'd put a experienced driver behind the wheel, anything is possible against younger and less experienced drivers but if you are going head to head with the same caliber drivers, Hyundai and Ford would end up losing.

[wyler]

What I meant "the series itself needs to appeal" is that to the promoter to sell the product to the TV stations, fans, younger generation etc, it has to be exciting to watch and there needs to be competition. Basically all today's sport is built on different narratives and rivalries, which they then try to sell. But if you don't have teams competing with each other, Toyota gets 1-3 basically every time, then it gets boring very fast.
You are over romanticizing the promoter's role here. They play a part in the rulemaking, but they do not have a "bigger say." The rules are decided by the WRC Commission, which comprises voting members from all current manufacturers, the WRC Promoter, and a representative of the crews. And before that, there is WRC Technical Working Group, who thinks out all the technical details. Promoter doesn't know shit about restrictor sizes or safety cell designs. Additionally, there are the FIA and other WRC stakeholders who play apart in this process. They all work together, but to say that the promoter calls the shots is a massive exaggeration. Or you think that the promoter wanted to go for WRC2 cars for 2027? So this is the best thing we will sell? I doubt.

i'm on the other side, sorry! i think you underestimate the role of the promoter. of course there's the board, of course there's the technical part. but there's one that doing economic research and speaks to the manus about what they want from the series to be there. and that's not the fia. They use the promoter for it ( and for taking the blame if not working, like now, with the change). it's not the fia that work on marketing...

Where does promoter have a say? How to PROMOTE the sport. It includes media coverage, tv rights, what events are in the calendar, event standards, digital and social media etc. But this has nothing to do how the competition looks like, what are the technical regulations etc and this is what I have been trying to tell you all the time. If this part is bad, there is nothing to promote.

yes. but do you really think format and regulation have nothing to do with promotion? promotion is not only about tv and social media. that's the fan perspective! on the other side, it's all about making the series generate interest, for fan - sure - but most important for brands. attract sponsorship, generate value for the brands. and that is about having service parks and sss in town, near people, having vip hospitality and so on. and if you think a bit deeper about media/social content, you'll realize that has everything to do with format of the race and location ( u really think they don't have a say in going to saudi's money or to usa? c'mon). same goes for cars. of course rally2 is sustained by the promoter, (here, indeed, i agree, they need more entrants).

Yes, exactly. Based on that, nothing about the cars is decided by the promoter. This is what I was talking about all the time. We could drive backwards but if there is no competition, nobody won't watch it.

please, don't make me work for u... i cited a couple examples. u can easily find more, think about who pushed for the green agenda and toward hybrid in 2021...

Just give up, this is a battle you can't win. No one cares about the regional level. We need to see where the best drivers are and this is WRC2 and ERC. We can end this with one answer - if you could choose a car to compete in any series and you need to win, what would you choose?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Hyundai and M-Sport cars can't win. If you'd put a experienced driver behind the wheel, anything is possible against younger and less experienced drivers but if you are going head to head with the same caliber drivers, Hyundai and Ford would end up losing.

i give up, if 2 victory and a second place in the last 3 years (erc) and wrc2 podiums this season are not enough, i don't have any more to offer.
btw, regional level is the where they sell cars...
anyway, the original point stays: rally2 are almost all on the same level ( you said they can win) so hiunday can compete with it in wrc '27.