Hyundai WRT

[wyler]

But the Toyota Rally2 would still be better than the Hyundai. No reason to buy one other then maybe it's significantly cheaper

honestly, i don't think there's that much of a difference between all the rally2 at the moment. they can be competitive - as well as the fiesta- more so if they'll do 6+ months development.

the car is not the point, for anyone, the point is understanding where the new promoter will bring the sport, to go to the company board with some kind of roi for being in wrc.

[deephouse]

Hyundai develop cars just to catch up previous versions of other cars. So if a Toyota have v2.5, Hyundai update it to v2.0, and this is today. They are too late in everything. They always wait and then whine there was no time to proper develop things.

Even "when" the promoter thing will be official (don't expect it anytime soon, according to joker Ben), Hyundai will again have some excuses or they will not have the answer. They are pretty much gone. The clue can be, they won't do WRC27 car, and they know their Rally2 car isn't competitive.

[flat_right]

honestly, i don't think there's that much of a difference between all the rally2 at the moment. they can be competitive - as well as the fiesta- more so if they'll do 6+ months development.

the car is not the point, for anyone, the point is understanding where the new promoter will bring the sport, to go to the company board with some kind of roi for being in wrc.

Well, there must be some reason that no one is choosing Hyundai cars to compete. I wonder why...

And the car is the whole point. If Hyundai and M-Sport had a Rally1 car at Toyota's level, we would have something attractive to offer a new promoter. The Toyota dominated championship we have today is boring for everyone except Toyota fans. This lack of competition is also the main reason we're moving away from the current generation of cars, without a genuine fight for victories, the championship loses its appeal and they saw that we can't continue like this. No commitment from Hyundai and M-Sport is the reason we are here today. So to say that the car is not the point is wrong. It is the whole point. Build a proper car, generate a championship that interests fans. Hyundai seems to think that show me what you have to offer and then we will see if we compete.

[wyler]

Well, there must be some reason that no one is choosing Hyundai cars to compete. I wonder why...

And the car is the whole point. If Hyundai and M-Sport had a Rally1 car at Toyota's level, we would have something attractive to offer a new promoter. The Toyota dominated championship we have today is boring for everyone except Toyota fans. This lack of competition is also the main reason we're moving away from the current generation of cars, without a genuine fight for victories, the championship loses its appeal and they saw that we can't continue like this. No commitment from Hyundai and M-Sport is the reason we are here today. So to say that the car is not the point is wrong. It is the whole point. Build a proper car, generate a championship that interests fans. Hyundai seems to think that show me what you have to offer and then we will see if we compete.

this looks like a good point, but is not: it has a big big flaw. Money!
Hiunday and M-Sport doesn't commit to top level (and skoda, and lancia too btw) because of a simple reason: money! They need a return of the investment they would do to bring a new car to the top level. it's easy to see that the only working business model is selling car to the customers, even for toyota. so car is not the point, they'll do a new car if it's worth it, and it's not at the moment. u can see it also with the lack of real "tuners" for 27, we still didn't see any of them on the road, and the couple rumored working on it have big institutional backing. The reason is not the current cars, nor the lack of competition per se. it's the whole sport that doesn't generate enough income for the manufacturers. that's the point for the promoter, and that's why basically everyone is waiting.

Little bit on the cars: i don't think i20 or fiestas are that much behind. both have good results in erc and regional rallies. i20 won 2 erc in the last years, won in spain and portugal with sordo, is in top10 in france and italy. of course there's a reason why it's not so widely used, that being a customer department way lower than skoda (it also applies to lancia, for the moment, there aren't 20/25 lancia rally2 in the same entry -let's see if they will develop a big department with time- and also toyota doesn't reach the same numbers, even if it has a very good structure, of course).

[deephouse]

this looks like a good point, but is not: it has a big big flaw. Money!
Hiunday and M-Sport doesn't commit to top level (and skoda, and lancia too btw) because of a simple reason: money! They need a return of the investment they would do to bring a new car to the top level. it's easy to see that the only working business model is selling car to the customers, even for toyota. so car is not the point, they'll do a new car if it's worth it, and it's not at the moment. u can see it also with the lack of real "tuners" for 27, we still didn't see any of them on the road, and the couple rumored working on it have big institutional backing. The reason is not the current cars, nor the lack of competition per se. it's the whole sport that doesn't generate enough income for the manufacturers. that's the point for the promoter, and that's why basically everyone is waiting.

Little bit on the cars: i don't think i20 or fiestas are that much behind. both have good results in erc and regional rallies. i20 won 2 erc in the last years, won in spain and portugal with sordo, is in top10 in france and italy. of course there's a reason why it's not so widely used, that being a customer department way lower than skoda (it also applies to lancia, for the moment, there aren't 20/25 lancia rally2 in the same entry -let's see if they will develop a big department with time- and also toyota doesn't reach the same numbers, even if it has a very good structure, of course).

If they do on a customer base just like in their factory based team, then you have your answer. Probably only those stick with their car who thinks they could get recognized in official team.

[WRCStan]

this looks like a good point, but is not: it has a big big flaw. Money!
Hiunday and M-Sport doesn't commit to top level (and skoda, and lancia too btw) because of a simple reason: money! They need a return of the investment they would do to bring a new car to the top level. it's easy to see that the only working business model is selling car to the customers, even for toyota. so car is not the point, they'll do a new car if it's worth it, and it's not at the moment. u can see it also with the lack of real "tuners" for 27, we still didn't see any of them on the road, and the couple rumored working on it have big institutional backing. The reason is not the current cars, nor the lack of competition per se. it's the whole sport that doesn't generate enough income for the manufacturers. that's the point for the promoter, and that's why basically everyone is waiting.

Promoter can only handle WRC, the yet-to-be-constructors need to know when these new cars will become good for the regional and national championships too like was intended and that's pivotal to a build-or-not decision. And the tuners need to know when they can stick their own sourced engines in them - like was intended. But the FIA won't want to piss off the Rally2 manufs that may turn up in WRC next year by announcing those timelines.

'WRC2027' is going to be a gradual process, the only people panicking are on this forum worrying what Monte 27 will look like.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

this looks like a good point, but is not: it has a big big flaw. Money!
Hiunday and M-Sport doesn't commit to top level (and skoda, and lancia too btw) because of a simple reason: money! They need a return of the investment they would do to bring a new car to the top level. it's easy to see that the only working business model is selling car to the customers, even for toyota. so car is not the point, they'll do a new car if it's worth it, and it's not at the moment. u can see it also with the lack of real "tuners" for 27, we still didn't see any of them on the road, and the couple rumored working on it have big institutional backing. The reason is not the current cars, nor the lack of competition per se. it's the whole sport that doesn't generate enough income for the manufacturers. that's the point for the promoter, and that's why basically everyone is waiting.

Little bit on the cars: i don't think i20 or fiestas are that much behind. both have good results in erc and regional rallies. i20 won 2 erc in the last years, won in spain and portugal with sordo, is in top10 in france and italy. of course there's a reason why it's not so widely used, that being a customer department way lower than skoda (it also applies to lancia, for the moment, there aren't 20/25 lancia rally2 in the same entry -let's see if they will develop a big department with time- and also toyota doesn't reach the same numbers, even if it has a very good structure, of course).

With M-Sport, yes money is the big problem. Ford isnt there like a full-factory team would be. Not only for developing the car but mainly for paying for top drivers.

But with Hyundai there's been plenty of money for both. Their big issue has been decision-making and car design / engineering. Coming too late with their 2022 Car and thus its inherent desgn faults were a huge problem that they've never recovered from. They've thrown good money after bad over the years with testing, development and top drivers, all to no avail.

[WRCStan]

They've thrown good money

...at hiring and firing.