WRC mainclass from 2027

**Ferranis** · Today, 10:35

Originally Posted by focus206

What shenanigans would have Ogier prevented, exactly? Ogier doesn't design car parts, engineers do. Ogier can say "the car understeers too much", maybe he can loosely suggest modifications to differential, everything else is up to engineers. And this is if we give for granted that Ogier would have had the patience to pull Hyundai out of unreliability, which he didn't have with Citroen.

Thierry is the only driver in recent memory who won the title while driving clearly not the best car. Even Ogier's Fiesta in 2017 and 2018 wasn't the fastest, but was the most reliable.

I think in general its the question how much impact a driver has on the success of a team. Personally I hold the driver in high regard. Building and maintaining a car for a driver that will win if the car is up to par must have a huge impact on team morale. Additionally such drivers tend to get what they want from the team, if there are no preventing circumstances (MSport out of money, Citroen doing whatever they did). Success also breeds succes, better engineers want to work for you in such a team

**focus206** · Today, 12:36

Originally Posted by Ferranis

I think in general its the question how much impact a driver has on the success of a team. Personally I hold the driver in high regard. Building and maintaining a car for a driver that will win if the car is up to par must have a huge impact on team morale. Additionally such drivers tend to get what they want from the team, if there are no preventing circumstances (MSport out of money, Citroen doing whatever they did). Success also breeds succes, better engineers want to work for you in such a team

Morale and mentality are abstract concepts. What would Ogier do to fix turbo failures? Fuel pump failures? Suspensions collapsing? Nothing, a driver can do nothing about it.

Could he make the car more driveable? Maybe, if we assume the engineers would be able to translate his input into output, they haven't done a good job at that in all these years.
But then, if Ogier is so good at make a team work, why didn't he do it with Citroen? The C3 wasn't slow nor unreliable, the big problem was driveability. Ogier complained, didn't improve it and quit the team after one season, not even attempting to make the team his own.

**trykmann** · Today, 16:44

Originally Posted by focus206

Morale and mentality are abstract concepts. What would Ogier do to fix turbo failures? Fuel pump failures? Suspensions collapsing? Nothing, a driver can do nothing about it.

Could he make the car more driveable? Maybe, if we assume the engineers would be able to translate his input into output, they haven't done a good job at that in all these years.
But then, if Ogier is so good at make a team work, why didn't he do it with Citroen? The C3 wasn't slow nor unreliable, the big problem was driveability. Ogier complained, didn't improve it and quit the team after one season, not even attempting to make the team his own.

C3 was actually being developed and significant upgrades were planned for 2020. Östberg was developing them and according his description the upgrades improved the car a lot. Sadly we all know what happened in the end of 2019 with Citroen.

**deephouse** · Today, 17:22

Ogier is not the only man who can actually win a title, or more over, make the car good. Just look at all Toyota drivers. They are all very good, even Pajari and Katsuta, which were clearly the team's weakness, but that changed this year. It's just that Hyundai have so many drivers already in the team, so many years competing and still somehow clueless about everything. I don't say Neuville and Fourmaux aren't the right guys for team, and also those three in third car are somehow making the best they can, it's just that they completely lack in development and consequently team morale went down event after the event. Maybe also many of crew already knew, they are out, so they don't bother so much anymore. Even Neuville admitted, it's over for this season (Ok, he slightly changed his mind with recent win).

If we look again on Ogier performances lately. He is having troubles mostly just by those damn Hankooks. If he would have issues with car frequently, he would probably already retired, as he is not very patient person, and also with so many titles, he expect some professionalism, as Toyota could provide him that, and Hyundai and M-Sport sadly couldn't or won't.

**Ferranis** · Today, 20:17

Originally Posted by trykmann

C3 was actually being developed and significant upgrades were planned for 2020. Östberg was developing them and according his description the upgrades improved the car a lot. Sadly we all know what happened in the end of 2019 with Citroen.

The upgrade was sick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eov84PRQuyU

Really sad we did not see it compete. Same with the new Yaris Toyota was developing that was cancelled due to covid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_vOnEKuSG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVv4vJrVEMw

**Ferranis** · Today, 20:34

Originally Posted by Ferranis

The upgrade was sick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eov84PRQuyU

Really sad we did not see it compete. Same with the new Yaris Toyota was developing that was cancelled due to covid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_vOnEKuSG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVv4vJrVEMw

To go back to the original topic after a really fun excursion (thank you all for the wonderful discussion).

THIS is what I want the top class of WRC to be and not whatever WRC27 will be.

With a team cost cap it would most likely be achievable. We have good tools now to develop aero for comparatively cheap

**WRCStan** · Today, 20:57

Originally Posted by Ferranis

To go back to the original topic after a really fun excursion (thank you all for the wonderful discussion).

THIS is what I want the top class of WRC to be and not whatever WRC27 will be.

With a team cost cap it would most likely be achievable. We have good tools now to develop aero for comparatively cheap

So who will turn up? Only Toyota.

**Ferranis** · Today, 21:02

Originally Posted by WRCStan

So who will turn up? Only Toyota.

Right now yes, but this is after years of mis-management, which could not have happened

(one can dream)

17 we were on a high, which was squandered later on, especially with the ill fated plug-in hybrids

**WRCStan** · Today, 21:34

Mismanagement? They were bound to the decrees of Politicians and the Princes of Finance.

17-19 was class because of 4 teams all equally capable with a spread of talent. Wouldn't see that again with a production car basis. The future is not a manufacturer entrant's sport.