Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[saco0o]

if rally2 cars are to change for 2027, what you fellas think we are going to get? just a move to smallcrossover models (to follow road models) and maybe some upgrades on the safety cell? i imagine they are not going crazy over changes here. hope theres also a big transition period where current R5s can still compete with the next car rules for a while, at least until more drivers and teams on national levels can reach the budget to get the new specs. fia cannot ruin national championships with rushed changes cuz we need the local entries to make up the numbers in erc's top class.

[Mirek]

If it was up to me I would not change the cars which already compete. I would allow privately homologated cars to compete and a space frame, so as not to limit the options for the future teams to enter the series. The spaceframe can be made cheap if the panels are not made of carbon but insted from heavier glassfibre laminate. Due to the coming lack of options I would also allow using engine from another manufacturer (that also applies automatically for the private cars) because too many carmakers don't produce suitable engines anymore.

I also think that EV or hybrid could be allowed to compete but alongside the current Rally2. If some team has the desire to build an EV or hybrid let's give them the chance and the media space they need for financing. For that reason I would give them quite a big freedom of choice in terms of design. Let them do what they need and see if they can build a competitive machine.

I mean instead of fixed rules designed by big heads sitting at the FIA table let's start with mission-oriented development. The mission is to finish given rally calendar as quick and as reliably as possible with a car which is safe. Let's see if they come with something competitive and if so we can use such design as a basis for future rally cars, maybe it can be even an option for Rally1.

[saco0o]

If it was up to me I would not change the cars which already compete. I would allow privately homologated cars to compete and a space frame, so as not to limit the options for the future teams to enter the series. The spaceframe can be made cheap if the panels are not made of carbon but insted from heavier glassfibre laminate. Due to the coming lack of options I would also allow using engine from another manufacturer (that also applies automatically for the private cars) because too many carmakers don't produce suitable engines anymore.

I also think that EV or hybrid could be allowed to compete but alongside the current Rally2. If some team has the desire to build an EV or hybrid let's give them the chance and the media space they need for financing. For that reason I would give them quite a big freedom of choice in terms of design. Let them do what they need and see if they can build a competitive machine.

I mean instead of fixed rules designed by big heads sitting at the FIA table let's start with mission-oriented development. The mission is to finish given rally calendar as quick and as reliably as possible with a car which is safe. Let's see if they come with something competitive and if so we can use such design as a basis for future rally cars, maybe it can be even an option for Rally1.

Rally2/R5 is really good, eh? i hope they manage not to destroy it haha. i mentioned smallcrossovers because theres this talk about current "hatchbackISH" models being phased out from production from brands, like the fiesta, the polo, the c3. idk how stuff actually work in europe, the hole homologation thing (how are new fiestas being made in rally when ford doesnt produce them anymore, for example) but it looked the simplest suggestion so far. keep same business model but for smallcrossover models. BUT YES, allowing current r5s to compete together, because we need probably 5 to 10 years to complete the replacement of current cars - IF thats the reasoning behind the courtains with manufacturers. like ford thinking "yes, we need pumas, no more fiestas, lets change this". It is a 5 to 10 year plan in my view, because of all the national championships. money is short for everybody haha

[Steve Boyd]

(how are new fiestas being made in rally when ford doesnt produce them anymore, for example)

M-Sport bought a stock of Fiesta bodyshells from Ford before they stopped making them. When they run out there won't be any new Rally2, 3 or 4 Fiestas. Any cars that have been made to the homologation rules can be used until the homologation runs out (I think it's 5 years after the cars were last made) so M-Sport can keep building and selling cars for another few years even though they are no longer manufactured by Ford.

[saco0o]

M-Sport bought a stock of Fiesta bodyshells from Ford before they stopped making them. When they run out there won't be any new Rally2, 3 or 4 Fiestas. Any cars that have been made to the homologation rules can be used until the homologation runs out (I think it's 5 years after the cars were last made) so M-Sport can keep building and selling cars for another few years even though they are no longer manufactured by Ford.

hmmmm thats interesting.
but if the rules are set to change in 2027, wouldnt that be a factor for when drivers are looking for new cars? like... if i were to buy a new R5 in 2025, i would probably think "naaah, theres new rules for 2027, im going to rent someone's car for the year and then buy a new model just in 2027, with the new rules, so then I can use the new car for yeeeaars to come".
did my question made sense? im terrible at english
also, question 2) do we know how many bodyshells msport bought? now im worried they will end up with pilles of cars on their shop because these new rules are so close. i imagine rally3 rules will not change tho, so they may use the cars there

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If it was up to me I would not change the cars which already compete. I would allow privately homologated cars to compete and a space frame, so as not to limit the options for the future teams to enter the series. The spaceframe can be made cheap if the panels are not made of carbon but insted from heavier glassfibre laminate. Due to the coming lack of options I would also allow using engine from another manufacturer (that also applies automatically for the private cars) because too many carmakers don't produce suitable engines anymore.

I also think that EV or hybrid could be allowed to compete but alongside the current Rally2. If some team has the desire to build an EV or hybrid let's give them the chance and the media space they need for financing. For that reason I would give them quite a big freedom of choice in terms of design. Let them do what they need and see if they can build a competitive machine.

I mean instead of fixed rules designed by big heads sitting at the FIA table let's start with mission-oriented development. The mission is to finish given rally calendar as quick and as reliably as possible with a car which is safe. Let's see if they come with something competitive and if so we can use such design as a basis for future rally cars, maybe it can be even an option for Rally1.

The switch to a spaceframe chassis for Rally 1 in 2022 was supposed to attract new manufacturers, with a re-sizing of any model they had like SUV, crossovers etc. This didn't happen.

Do you think any new manufacturer would come in with a spaceframe Rally2 car in 2027, or will it be purely private teams ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting piece on Dirtfish on the return of Lancia at Rally4 level and how Rally2 is the ideal for return on investment according to the Lancia rally guys...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/a-lan...he-fias-hands/

[Steve Boyd]

hmmmm thats interesting.
but if the rules are set to change in 2027, wouldnt that be a factor for when drivers are looking for new cars? like... if i were to buy a new R5 in 2025, i would probably think "naaah, theres new rules for 2027, im going to rent someone's car for the year and then buy a new model just in 2027, with the new rules, so then I can use the new car for yeeeaars to come".
did my question made sense? im terrible at english

Yes, you did make sense. Your English is better than you think!

A lot of cars are rented from preparation companies anyway and the prep companies will need to buy them so M-Sport will need shells to build cars for that market. There will also be cars that are damaged that will need a new shell, so some will be used that way.

do we know how many bodyshells msport bought? now im worried they will end up with pilles of cars on their shop because these new rules are so close. i imagine rally3 rules will not change tho, so they may use the cars there

I can't remember if they said how many shells they bought, but it wouldn't have been a huge number. Don't forget that M-Sport have good market in National rallying so they can continue to supply to that market even after the Fiesta homologation runs out for International rallies. There are people in the UK still rallying Fiesta S2000 cars with an M-Sport turbo kit fitted to make them competitive with old 2 litre WRC cars that are used in National level events in the UK. M-Sport did that to keep their parts business going for those cars after people stopped using them on International rallies. Some of those guys may well move to R5 or Rally2 cars in future.

For M-Sport there's a big difference between the current Rally1 cars and the old WRC Escorts and Fiestas. They could sell the old cars for use in National rallies and supply parts and preparation services for them. They can't do that with Rally1 as they aren't allowed outside WRC, except with special permission. Keeping Rally2 cars in use Nationally helps their business stay alive.

[saco0o]

interesting! thanks for sharing these clarifications, mate! haha im less worried now. i love msport work, always cheering for the best for their bussiness! sometimes i focus only on erc and wrc (and nz/aussie haha) that i forget that local/national european series all count on stuff like that!

[Jarek Z]

Interesting - Hyundai only won 2 rallies in the whole history of ERC. One last year and one this year. Both in the hands of Hayden Paddon:
https://www.fiaerc.com/a/news/w28875...atest-Car-vote