WRC main class in 2025

[typhoon]

Yes it is, but sometimes you have to speculate to accumalate.

Not actually speculation, but rather wise investments in the weak areas of your company to make them work smoothly in the future. The Promoter has a lot of issues, let's start from that.

EIGHT CARS to do the greatest rally event of the planet? What a joke...
The promoter also runs the World Rallycross championship. They had two ridiculous years with only 7 electric cars or so, had a huge fire explosion with Loeb's team and said NOTHING about it. Made the teams run second class spec cars to finish the championship in HONG KONG or whatever... but for 2024 they are bringing ICE cars back because people stopped watching. Lets see if they can reverse the damage. I JUST HOPE they change stuff in WRC for 2025 cuz having EIGHT cars doint Monte Carlo is just to confirm that Rally1 must die, honestly....

Rally1 are actually for the history books, although I loved them from the stages. Their "rage" coming from hell to earth gives you goosebumps. But then it's over after the first 10 cars, if you're lucky. Really hope they will come up with Rally2+ asap.

[Kenneth]

For the context of the discussion (i.e. manufacturer or privateer oriented WRC and the consequences of loosing the manufacturers) I split the privateeers and the manufacturers by the money running the show. Who makes what components is not important.

Well in this case I think that F1 is completely irrelevant for this discusion because. The system is completely different to any other motorsport. You don't need to make road cars to be any relevant in F1. Does McLaren have any advantage over Williams just because they make road cars?

Ferrari and Alpine are clearly manufacturers without any doubt. But where to draw the line?

Daimler owns only 1/3 of the F1 team and the team is financialy sustainable, so Daimler actually doesn't finance the team, they do mainly technical support and of course make engines. So does that mean that Mercedes actually ISN'T manufacturer team?

I already mentioned McLaren. It was F1 team first, car manufacturer later (to help finance the team). But their system didn't change after they become to make road cars. So it helps them to only finance.

What about Alfa Romeo, were they manufacturer team? They were only a sponsor, no technical support at all.

Aston Martin is the most complicated case. You would suppose that Lagonda bought F1 team, but it's actually the opposite. Lawrence Stroll owned F1 Team first and bought Aston Martin Lagonda later, renaming the team after the car maker. They ofc share know how and engineers. Still they bought most of things on a technical side from Mercedes (engine, gearbox, wind tunnel, etc.).

Similar to McLaren, Red Bull was F1 Team first, but made several prototypes with Aston Martin (before Stroll bought them) and are making their first hypersport soon. Does that mean they are manufacturer?

See, the structure of F1's team is complicated and different to other motorsports so much that it doesn't make sense to take it as example for WRC.

With exception of Ferrari and Alpine no other team is 100% factory team by all thinkable definitions.

But on the other hand no team is fully customer like let's say JOTA in WEC, because every team had to design atleast some mandatory parts by themselves.

I think comparing WRC with WEC and Dakar is better.

[WRCStan]

Well in this case I think that F1 is completely irrelevant for this discusion because.

Agreed. You can only go so far with how things work for comparison or ideas.

Aston Martin just got $105million in prize money for finishing 5th in the championship. The money pumped into this series comes from kings, presidents, sheikhs, oligarchs, billionaires and politicians using it as a dick shaking proxy. Bernie Ecclestone was once taken to RAC rally and refused to get out the car because of the mud. Different world.

[WRCStan]

Typhoon, I would shift the greed to the FIA, they own the championship knocking costs on to promoter, which I understand they voluntarily walked into. GTWC is owned and promoted by the same SRO, there is an added value in that.

[Mirek]

Well in this case I think that F1 is completely irrelevant for this discusion because. The system is completely different to any other motorsport. You don't need to make road cars to be any relevant in F1. Does McLaren have any advantage over Williams just because they make road cars?

I didn't bring the F1 in the discussion. Please read what I answered to.

[typhoon]

Typhoon, I would shift the greed to the FIA, they own the championship knocking costs on to promoter, which I understand they voluntarily walked into. GTWC is owned and promoted by the same SRO, there is an added value in that.

I wouldn't, because that would barely mean that my company is not doing profits because the Country in which I'm legally based is throwing me taxes to pay. Those are part of the operative costs and I need to make the whole thing profitable. WRC Promoter is not doing so, what are we talking about? lol

[WRCStan]

I wouldn't, because that would barely mean that my company is not doing profits because the Country in which I'm legally based is throwing me taxes to pay. Those are part of the operative costs and I need to make the whole thing profitable. WRC Promoter is not doing so, what are we talking about? lol

Then SRO is its own taxman in direct comparison. Vertical integration.

But yeah, off-topic.

[denkimi]

Well in this case I think that F1 is completely irrelevant for this discusion because. The system is completely different to any other motorsport. You don't need to make road cars to be any relevant in F1. Does McLaren have any advantage over Williams just because they make road cars?

F1 is very relevant to the discussion of where the wrc should go, exactly because of the point you make here.

F1 cars have no relevance to road cars, and yet manufacturers are willing to spend hundereds of millions on them. So why should rally1 cars be relevant to road cars?
The whole idea that they have to be based on roadcars enormously limits the series, because there aren't much car manufacturers left, only a few big groups. If, like in f1 or dakar, everyone with enough money and skill would be allowed to build a wrc car, we could get rid of the dependance on 2 manufacturers.

[TypeR]

F1 vs WRC shortly..

F1 manu champions get tens of millions as prize money.
WRC manu champions get a trophy and a warm handshake.


Ofc F1 teams' ,,buy in'' is also more expensive, but the outcome is more profitable.. (all teams w points get some money back).

[fiscorpun]

Interesting point. It made me wonder Whats the point of "road relevance" if the coolest thing about race cars is the huge aerokits and modifications? Like, put a nice rear spoiler on my Corsa, make it wider on the tires, some nice Monster Energy colors...
But naaah, no one is doing that to their road cars. That would be a Success with my 8 year old cousin's school friends but yeah GOOD LUCK with girls from now on.... =P

Maybe a spec rollcage + "build ur car around that" could be a good solution?
I dont know if a rollcage + engine (whatever) + tires + an aerodynamic bubble is cheaper than a Rally2 car, especially if u could attract little companies building these parts, like in BTCC where they have 3 brands making engines (something like that). Is it?