Rally Sweden 2023

**AMSS** · 11th February 2023, 17:40

Originally Posted by bwallace

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires

**mknight** · 11th February 2023, 17:42

Originally Posted by bwallace

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower

**bwallace** · 11th February 2023, 17:44

Originally Posted by AMSS

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...

**bwallace** · 11th February 2023, 17:49

Originally Posted by mknight

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower

not much love if we compare 2020 average speed is even higher than 2022 rally....

**mknight** · 11th February 2023, 17:52

Originally Posted by bwallace

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...

In 2020 they added extra tire allowance and extra tire changing zones as precaution, as well as moving second passes to a different day.

And off course lighter and less powerful cars.

**hari** · 11th February 2023, 17:54

Some pictures from Saturday: https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bes...eden_2023.html

**bwallace** · 11th February 2023, 17:54

yeah and in 2023 when have not so warm weather much more snow and bit longer rally with more straight which allow tyre cool down... and more tyre off than before...

**becher** · 11th February 2023, 17:56

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

So proving that its Michelin who know what they're doing...

Thats a senseless conclusion based on a mere theory.

**Rallyper** · 11th February 2023, 17:57

Originally Posted by Tauri_J

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12

My son Simon was at the spot. Also Huttunen had moment same corner. Had to be pushed.

Actually it was the sport of whole Saturday.

**becher** · 11th February 2023, 18:03

Originally Posted by AMSS

The studs actually do come off on Pirellis as well as Michelins in many cases. Michelins have a lot stiffer carcass which allows to run on significantly lower cold pressure, this helps give some more lifetime to the tires/keeping the studs intact.
In the conditions seen today with temperatures below zero and frozen gravel it`s the worst possible scenario for any tire. I think this is just a case which has never been seen in testing with long loops where the tire is never allowed to cool down and therefore overheats causing the problems, I am in no way a fan off Pirelli in fact quit the opposite but the combination seen today with the new heavy and powerful rally 1 cars the conditions and the high speeds must be the reason to these failures. Something that is really hard to anticipate.

I didn't claim Pirellis don't lose their studs, it was a mere theory what could contribute to those failures. None of us really knows what is the reason for it.