Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

**focus206** · 24th June 2022, 22:45

In an interview on leaving the Richard Mille Racing WEC Team, Ogier said that it was never his intention to contest the full WEC season (6 races) and it was time to dedicate himself to his family.
Yet, at Le Mans 24h he was saying that Toyota's decision on letting him drive the factory hypercar next season was imminent. Hard not to believe he decided to quit this WEC season after a probable "no" from Toyota.

**AnttiL** · 25th June 2022, 06:53

Originally Posted by sahnger120

How about just keep the current petrol only cars for the stages and then tow or trailer the rally cars with an electric or hybrid car/ suv or pick up ute through the villages between stages.

No.

**WRCStan** · 25th June 2022, 20:39

Five countries seek to delay EU fossil fuel car phase-out: https://www.reuters.com/markets/euro...nt-2022-06-24/

Don't know where best to post this, could be relevant to many threads including R5/Rally2 thread in ERC room. The pushback against the green agenda could be something to watch over the coming months and years. Even if it isn't totally killed off, the counter-measures, delays and indecision could affect manufacturers, models and rulemakers in rally.

**skarderud** · 28th June 2022, 10:10

If Hyundai quit Rally1 in the next years, then Rally2 has to be the main class.
Its much better to have a field of 5-6 brands and some semi-privateer teams than 2 teams with 3-4 cars.

Just hypotetical, i hope.
Stellantis will join next era of cars, much better with 4 factoryteams

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

**AnttiL** · 28th June 2022, 13:43

Originally Posted by skarderud

If Hyundai quit Rally1 in the next years, then Rally2 has to be the main class.
Its much better to have a field of 5-6 brands and some semi-privateer teams than 2 teams with 3-4 cars.

Just hypotetical, i hope.
Stellantis will join next era of cars, much better with 4 factoryteams

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Who would then pay the driver salaries? Would Hyundai continue with Rally2? Would Skoda be unbeatable? Would Toyota be in the series anymore?

**skarderud** · 28th June 2022, 13:59

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Who would then pay the driver salaries? Would Hyundai continue with Rally2? Would Skoda be unbeatable? Would Toyota be in the series anymore?

Same as today, i presume.
Who pays Mikkelsen, probably not toksport.

More cars, bigger field.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

**Rallyper** · 28th June 2022, 14:09

Originally Posted by skarderud

Same as today, i presume.
Who pays Mikkelsen, probably not toksport.

More cars, bigger field.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Yes. An open mind to to new solutions is always good. Not only pointing out the downsides but also see the possibilities is my way looking at it.

Having said that, there are no garanties what so ever what manufacturers will do if everything changes...

**WRCStan** · 28th June 2022, 14:10

Originally Posted by skarderud

More cars, bigger field.

Fallacy. You'd even have to find 4-5 crews to replace the lost Rally1 star drivers to break even.

**skarderud** · 28th June 2022, 16:01

Originally Posted by WRCStan

Fallacy. You'd even have to find 4-5 crews to replace the lost Rally1 star drivers to break even.

What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

**WRCStan** · 28th June 2022, 19:33

Originally Posted by skarderud

What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I mean there's no plausible argument that there'd be an increase in entrants. It makes sense in simple logic only. Maybe on European rounds there are a handful more local privateers, but there'd be no championship left at all for even new entrants to enter.

WRC has to go to minimum 3 continents and current Rally1 manufs have to do every round. Which privateers do you see obliging this and/or what would have to change? Nobody would be doing ~12, few even do the 6 in WRC2 or the 8 in ERC now. So I think it's a bad belief unless you dream of a second ERC where you can call the champion the best in the world.

As for my points on the current crop:

M-Sport would lose Ford support if the hybrid Puma went, so wouldn't be supporting drivers. Breen and Loeb go, Fourmaux, Greensmith and Loubet might still play. As Fiesta R5 and Rally2 homologs are up in 2024 and 26, need a new car anyway, but one that will either sell in the hundreds or please Ford to maintain an M-Sport entry.

Toyota have no Rally2 car because they're in it for the branding, not a customer outlet. Rally2 just isn't a TV sport. Evans and Ogier go, K-Rov and Lappi might occasionally play elsewhere. Worst case for your point is they build a Rally2 and keep these drivers, serious privateer opposition teams stand no 'investable' chance at the championships just like now so they don't enter.

Hyundai IMO are only even in Rally1 still because of contract obligations. They're going. They already privatised their WRC2 doings, so zero sum. Few privateer Hyundai entries as is. Neuville goes, Tanak might occasionally play and Solberg too.

Skoda, the only remaining Rally2 manufacturer developing a car but who aren't even willing to pay the current WRC2 registration fees might be tempted back, but then you'd lose Toksport - zero sum. Skoda customers wouldn't be too happy either - nobody could compete up to 2019.

For all this pontificating, it's not going to happen. More likely that Red Bull build their own Rally1 and tweak the rules to fill the Hyundai void, even if looks like a monster, or looks like a Hyundai and is still built in Alzenau.