WRC main class in 2025

**Mirek** · 5th February 2022, 14:18

Originally Posted by lmmjvss

Hmmm interesting. So right now the tech "stops" on the RE-X1 car or if manufacturers had more room to play around it could be at Rally1-ISH levels? Considering the weight-performance-safety balance... Like, are the current tube frame cars lighter?

Alone they are slightly lighter but not with the 84 kg heavy hybrid system. With it they are actually heavier than the previous generation of WRC cars (30 kg more total weight).

**becher** · 5th February 2022, 15:35

Originally Posted by lmmjvss

Motorsport will always be kinda spec. Im not a big fan of that but it is what it is. And I said Electric "and hybrids". Most of us were complaining last year about the costs of hybrids here, as if toyota hyundai ford were worried about this (rally division uses what? 0.1% of the brand's billionaire budget?). Now things are heading more and more into electric and here we are again complaining while we keep screaming "we need manufacturers" haha
What you mean? That all these brands will not start to produce only hybrids and electric from 2025 and on?

I can't predict whats going to happen in the automotive industry, but we can look at what is going on now and what happened in the past (california in the early 90s for example). The radical move to BEV and hybrids is very much a central european upper class bubble. If manufacturers want to sell products on the global market they will continue to sell pure ICE cars for some time still. After all not even in central europe is it feasible that all those cars in city centers owned by people in small cheap flats parked on the road side are BEV. So lets wait and see and not just jump on PR statements from populistic manufacturers (VW). But i guess this is a bit of topic now.

**WRCStan** · 5th February 2022, 15:45

Originally Posted by becher

But i guess this is a bit of topic now.

I disagree, it's very on topic. Also when combined with all the talk of recent pages let me ask the question again, is WRC (main class) going to be a manufacturer series in the future?

**lmmjvss** · 5th February 2022, 16:37

Originally Posted by becher

I can't predict whats going to happen in the automotive industry, but we can look at what is going on now and what happened in the past (california in the early 90s for example). The radical move to BEV and hybrids is very much a central european upper class bubble. If manufacturers want to sell products on the global market they will continue to sell pure ICE cars for some time still. After all not even in central europe is it feasible that all those cars in city centers owned by people in small cheap flats parked on the road side are BEV. So lets wait and see and not just jump on PR statements from populistic manufacturers (VW). But i guess this is a bit of topic now.

But thats the point. PR and marketing. Brands NEEDS to start to be seen as ecofriendly. They want that. Everything is propaganda in the current way of life. WTCR is going hybrid, TCR has a new electric verison (eTCR), Extreme-E is out there, Audi built a hybrid Dakar and everybody heard of it, Ken Block won an Electric Car for gymkhana, WRC went hybrid, BTCC went hybrid, Moto-E is getting Ducatti support, StarkVarg wants to run e-bikes in World Motocross, FIA e-GT is coming, red bull air race is plannig electric Vtols.. even Indycar is going hybrid and manufacturers are nothing but stickers and money laundering over there haha etc etc. If we want WRC to be "relevant", its literally on the propaganda part of the thing.
And heres what manufacturers are saying: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g3...kers-timeline/

**lmmjvss** · 5th February 2022, 16:43

Originally Posted by WRCStan

I disagree, it's very on topic. Also when combined with all the talk of recent pages let me ask the question again, is WRC (main class) going to be a manufacturer series in the future?

Im starting to think "No". I mean, I dont see wrc as a relevant series right now.
It has a huge spirit because of those Group B footages with millions watching on the side of the road... But righr now you see the "same love" for the sport in both WRC events and when some guys race Fiat Puntos and Volvos somewhere in Northern Slovakia... So maaaaybe it doesnt actually requires manufactures...
WTCC "died". Now its TCR. The WORLD championship runs the same cars as every other TCR national series and fans dont seem to bother haha. Would we bother to lose rally1 cars in order to have "more entries"?

**lmmjvss** · 7th February 2022, 14:51

Anyway... Are e/synth/bio fuels really "carbon neutral" as they say? Cuz yeah, you do it via a machine (biological or not) removing co2 from nature and then you use it in transportation and race cars and then they go back to nature and then you remove it again and so on... But doenst the process account for more co2 production too? Arent we reallocating Co2 in the wrong places? I mean, plants "eat" co2 and now wr are extracting co2 from place X and releasing it in city centers wherer theres no trees... Idk, I hope someone here knows better about this cuz im feeling E-fuels are just an expensive hype, just like hydrogen cars. Any infos? Cheers

**WRCStan** · 7th February 2022, 15:34

Sustainable resource is the buzzword with synthetic or biofuels. You can plant enough trees to offset a Boeing 747 flight and be carbon neutral.

**Mirek** · 7th February 2022, 17:50

Originally Posted by lmmjvss

Anyway... Are e/synth/bio fuels really "carbon neutral" as they say? Cuz yeah, you do it via a machine (biological or not) removing co2 from nature and then you use it in transportation and race cars and then they go back to nature and then you remove it again and so on... But doenst the process account for more co2 production too? Arent we reallocating Co2 in the wrong places? I mean, plants "eat" co2 and now wr are extracting co2 from place X and releasing it in city centers wherer theres no trees... Idk, I hope someone here knows better about this cuz im feeling E-fuels are just an expensive hype, just like hydrogen cars. Any infos? Cheers

The problem with CO2 is not really in cities or anywhere near the ground but higher in the atmosphere where it creates the greenhouse effect.

The problem in cities is other stuff like SOx, NOx, carbon particles or dust from brake pads, tyres and roads.

I am not a fan of biofuels at all but on the other hand hydrogen cars IMHO aren't just an expensive hype. For me they are more realistic than pure battery EVs (when talking about the scale of replacing the entire CE traffic).

**lmmjvss** · 7th February 2022, 18:30

Originally Posted by Mirek

The problem with CO2 is not really in cities or anywhere near the ground but higher in the atmosphere where it creates the greenhouse effect.

The problem in cities is other stuff like SOx, NOx, carbon particles or dust from brake pads, tyres and roads.

I am not a fan of biofuels at all but on the other hand hydrogen cars IMHO aren't just an expensive hype. For me they are more realistic than pure battery EVs (when talking about the scale of replacing the entire CE traffic).

Yeah, this whole theme is weird cuz "the world" shouldnt be thinking about giving everyone an EV. Instead we need more shared transportation than individual cars. More electric buses, for example. Or these "shared autonomous electric" vehicules for 4 to 8 people(?) that some startups are always showing the concept on youtube videos. Racing shouldnt be a problem. In America they are still racing V8s in sprintcar racing cuZ its only about "privateers racing". Theres no manufacturers egos around the sport and this makes me so confused. I really like motorsport and I waste to much time thinking about these weird things haha But I know we cant do much on an internet forum as the other guy said haha

**Mirek** · 7th February 2022, 19:23

Originally Posted by lmmjvss

Yeah, this whole theme is weird cuz "the world" shouldnt be thinking about giving everyone an EV. Instead we need more shared transportation than individual cars. More electric buses, for example. Or these "shared autonomous electric" vehicules for 4 to 8 people(?) that some startups are always showing the concept on youtube videos. Racing shouldnt be a problem. In America they are still racing V8s in sprintcar racing cuZ its only about "privateers racing". Theres no manufacturers egos around the sport and this makes me so confused. I really like motorsport and I waste to much time thinking about these weird things haha But I know we cant do much on an internet forum as the other guy said haha

If there was a real will to lower the emission the first, immediately effective, easy to implement and completely natural thing would be to limit the maximum weight of newly sold vehicles. Do you need a 2,5 tons heavy Mercedes GLS or a Porsche Cayenne to bring children to the nursery school which is 2 km away? Of course not, nobody does but that's how these cars are being mostly used.