2021 Race 10 - British Grand Prix

[Nitrodaze]

Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

It's fun how there's more than one way to look at it , isn't it ?


Does it say , I knew we would touch ?

Close quarter racing is the essence of the formula. Each driver does it with trust in the other driver to conduct their manoeuvre with skill and mutual respect. That is the essence of avoiding a collision. The unwritten rule is to avoid a collision but to race each other as hard as possible while doing so. Afterall, these are best drivers in the world.

While you chaps turn a blind eye to Verstappen's approach to racing, the rest of the grid is very uncomfortable with it. Vettel was very vocal about it in 2018. Kimi , Leclerc and Ocon in 2019. Ricciardo certainly found it a bit much as well.

The thing is most drivers on the grid don't trust Verstappen to obey the unwritten rule, as he pushes the envelop further than is required by the unwritten rule. And he sees it as beating the other driver that has gone out their way to ensure that the moment does not result in a bad crash. On two occasions before Silverstone, he has pushed the envelope to the point that a crash did occur. Singapore in the Ferrari sandwich crash that effectively put paid to Vettel's championship campaign. At Baku zig zagging that caused Ricciardo to crash into the back of him. Then there was the pointless crash at Sao Paulo Brasil, where he aggressively cut across Ocon ending both of their races and losing a race that was in the bag.

This is racing, any sensible driver would make allowance for the other driver to fight through the corner as he is not paid to back out. I find it quite confusing that you lot keep going on that Hamilton should back out. Why the hell should he. He might as well go home, hang up his helmet and retire.

The fans at the grandstand or pay TV viewers did pay to see drivers backing off. They paid to see a proper duel for the championship. And it should not be easy. It should be damn hard, and that it is.

[denkimi]

Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

[Nitrodaze]

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

That would be very bad news to Redbull in this budget cap regime. They are already using up a bit of their development token to fix that crashed car. Commonsense would say tone down the aggression.

[Mia 01]

You mean the chrash serves a double cause?

[denkimi]

That would be very bad news to Redbull in this budget cap regime. They are already using up a bit of their development token to fix that crashed car. Commonsense would say tone down the aggression.

I'm pretty sure they don't care the least about the costs. They will have all sorts of workarounds already anyway.

[Zico]

IMHO Max took a risk that Lewis would back out, and that is the only thing he was wrong about. As the regs currently stand, the driver on the racing line and leading dictates the corner with the stipulation that they must leave a cars width to the opposing car. Lewis was grossly off line, had missed the apex, and was carrying too much speed for a corner that would have two cars in it.

Don't get me wrong. Max would have been wise to just back out and let Lewis go wide, pass or not. Playing the long game would have worked much better. But neither driver is thinking about those details at 180 mph heading into the corner really. They are thinking that they have the corner and their opponent doesn't.... that's why they are good drivers.





You really should read the entire piece before you use it as a professional opinion that backs your own.

Quoted from the Brundle piece.....

"Max was not at fault although for his own race and championship campaign he could have left a little more space on the inside given Hamilton was bound to be compromised on that line, and perhaps have been less convinced that Lewis would yield."

If you are disappointed about an unknown source from another poster and questioning them on it, you might want to take a look in the mirror and consider how it makes you look to only use part of a persons opinion that you agree with, while ignoring the part you don't.




And in the end, even the former drivers can't agree on the issue. I don't value Brundle's position any more than the other drivers, and they have varied versions of where they think the blame lies in the case. There is no absolute authority on any of it, other than the enforcement arm that is the stewards. The rules are written in a way that they provide a guideline and not much more really. Short of having all kinds of geometric markings on any corner showing differing approach angles, spaces, limits, along with rules that clearly state "driver A owns the corner if they make it to angle XYZ first"...... controversial calls will be a thing in the future as well. But as usual, often people on the internet want to feel that their opinion is absolute fact. Come on folks.... humans are humans, subject to biases and favoritisms, whether conscious of it or not, and yelling at the internet doesn't make us win anything.

Maybe people should just accept that their opinion is just that... their opinion. Others can agree or disagree with it all they want. But it's certainly no reason to start the insults, claims of racism, and general hate and discontent. IMHO it's just childish and proves that people are grasping at straws to claim that the only valid opinion is the one they hold. Posting over and over and over saying the same things doesn't make an opinion any more valid either.... it just usually proves that the person who won't budge on their opinion thinks that the world around them is wrong and they are the only ones that can fix it.






How dare you actually focus on a way to make solid rules that allow racing and keep things safe. Pick a side, become a fanboi extremist, and shout from the rooftops!


Yeah, the rules right now just kind of still suck at clarity, and they are leaving the door open for these kinds of things. Racing will be racing, but there has got to be a better way to sort things out and keep it somewhat safe. It's sort of a catch 22 situation.... if the rules are too strict racing suffers. If the rules are too loose, racing suffers.

But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.

Thanks!.. Finally, the voice of reason and common sense. Agreed on all points, we are on exactly the same page on this one.


I reckon there is probably also an element of high downforce vs low downforce at play in the incident.
Lewis's lower downforce which gave him the straight-line speed advantage to be able to attack Max unfortunately also did not allow him to be able to hit the apex.. or stay in the track space that Max left for him.

...but that is obviously Max's fault, he should have known that was going to happen and should have yielded to the understeering Lewis no matter what.

[Bagwan]

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

I get that Max has a reputation for being pushy , but pretty much all agree he has toned it down a long way from back then .

This wasn't that .
Yes , it was aggressive , and yes , it was risky , but it was also good racecraft .
He kept Lewis tight down the straight approaching the corner , and then took the racing line , knowing that Lewis would know he was too tight to make the corner at that speed , and then left room inside for him to do it .
Leclerc didn't keep Lewis in tight , and lost the fight , because Lewis had a better line in .

[Zico]

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It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

Perhaps.. but more pertinently it also tells us Lewis knew what was likely to happen and didn't care, he was prepared to punt Max off the track at what was it... 180mph? and all for a championship.

Well despite my own thoughts about that, we certainly can't accuse him of lacking drive or dedication to winning his 8th title. No qualms of F's given...

Interesting but also worrying times ahead. 🤔

[Nitrodaze]

I'm pretty sure they don't care the least about the costs. They will have all sorts of workarounds already anyway.

Not for more crashes every other weekend. Any more and they would not be able to bring any more upgrades for the car. The point is not about whether Redbull has cash but whether they can afford to spend the capped budget fixing crash damages rather than developing the can.

[The Black Knight]

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Perhaps.. but more pertinently it also tells us Lewis knew what was likely to happen and didn't care, he was prepared to punt Max off the track at what was it... 180mph? and all for a championship.

Well despite my own thoughts about that, we certainly can't accuse him of lacking drive or dedication to winning his 8th title. No qualms of F's given...

Interesting but also worrying times ahead. 🤔

As mentioned before Max has pushed the boundaries of aggressive racing already this year, and each time Lewis has backed out. There was always going to come a time when Lewis said enough is enough. Now Max knows that if he cuts across Lewis like that again he may very well end up in the wall.

And why should he care? Max didn't care if he took Lewis off in Imola or Spain. Throughout his career Lewis has been an impeccably clean driver but if you come Up against a guy that has shown you he's happy to take you out to gain or keep position you must stand your ground. Lewis quite rightly did this on Saturday. He took the same uncompromising approach Max took and Max paid the price.