Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[AnttiL]

The point is that what Audi did was throw a lot of money and put up a whole department in the factory for developing the rally car, to use it as a marketing tool. Since then teams like Lancia, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Peugeot, Citroen and VW have also been successful in their own eras, but they haven't upped the level of effort as much as Audi did. VW was just a lot better than the other teams during their era, and they had the best driver of the era (same as Citroen the decade before). The rules alone controlled better how much you could do development during a homologation period and what are the limits of a car whereas in the group B days it was quite the Wild West.

[dimviii]

Tand put up a whole department in the factory for developing the rally car, to use it as a marketing tool.

same did citroen.

[AnttiL]

same did citroen.

and every team after Audi.

[AndyRAC]

It took a while for Mitsubishi to get their act together in regards to showcasing their rally/ road cars. Here in the UK, none pf the first 5 Lancer Evo were officially imported. You had to get a 'grey import'. The 6 was the first one to be officially sold, you wonder what took them so long?

As for the VW effort, well it wasn't a surprise. One only had to look at the Audi efforts in Sportscars - they were fully committed, financially and in resources. In fact, the LMP effort was an R&D programme as opposed to marketing. If VW took the WRC programme anywhere near as seriously, (and why wouldn't they?) then everybody was in trouble, including Citroen. And their first year with the Fabia was clear evidence how committed they were.

If you want to succeed, then you have to be 'all in' - no half measures.

[dimviii]

and every team after Audi.

not every team. Remember vw at group A era? Suzuki? citroen at bx 4 tc era? Skoda?

[doubled1978]

It took a while for Mitsubishi to get their act together in regards to showcasing their rally/ road cars. Here in the UK, none pf the first 5 Lancer Evo were officially imported. You had to get a 'grey import'. The 6 was the first one to be officially sold, you wonder what took them so long?

As for the VW effort, well it wasn't a surprise. One only had to look at the Audi efforts in Sportscars - they were fully committed, financially and in resources. In fact, the LMP effort was an R&D programme as opposed to marketing. If VW took the WRC programme anywhere near as seriously, (and why wouldn't they?) then everybody was in trouble, including Citroen. And their first year with the Fabia was clear evidence how committed they were.

If you want to succeed, then you have to be 'all in' - no half measures.

That’s exactly right, Audi have probably been the best exponent of how to use motorsport activity over the last 40 years, everything they have done has had a strategic value whether it be marketing or R&D, and as you say they never mess about. The money that was being spent by the group on WEC with Audi & Porsche was said to be astronomical, and VW were rallying at that time also.
Citroen obviously did a great job when they came to WRC, spent lots of money and ended up dominating, but I always felt they didn’t appear to capitalise on it as much as they could have, perhaps living in the UK I didn’t see the best of their marketing but they didn’t do it to launch a sporty range or anything like that, in fact they seemed to almost do the opposite.

[Rally Power]

Citroen obviously did a great job when they came to WRC, spent lots of money and ended up dominating, but I always felt they didn’t appear to capitalise on it as much as they could have, perhaps living in the UK I didn’t see the best of their marketing but they didn’t do it to launch a sporty range or anything like that, in fact they seemed to almost do the opposite.

It’s fair to say that until the mid 10’s there were still sporty models in the Citroen range and some of those were even converted into low or mid budget rally cars (ZX, Saxo, C2, DS3) but after that it was a bit painful to see Citroen WRC effort getting so disconnected from their general production.

Btw, despite their revolutionary approach and the vast resources, Audi’s WRC winning path was far from the supremacy of Lancia in Gr.A days, Citroen in the 00’s or VW in the mid 10’s; still, it was more than enough to change the sport for ever.

[doubled1978]

It’s fair to say that until the mid 10’s there were still sporty models in the Citroen range and some of those were even converted into low or mid budget rally cars (ZX, Saxo, C2, DS3) but after that it was a bit painful to see Citroen WRC effort getting so disconnected from their general production.

Btw, despite their revolutionary approach and the vast resources, Audi’s WRC winning path was far from the supremacy of Lancia in Gr.A days, Citroen in the 00’s or VW in the mid 10’s; still, it was more than enough to change the sport for ever.

Oh I know, Audi didn’t dominate WRC in the way others have subsequently done, but the programme probably did more for the company than those of Lancia, Citroen or VW.
Lancia is actually one of the great shames of the auto industry, a legendary brand with such a rich history particularly in WRC that has withered to nothing....

[AnttiL]

Audi dominated the rallies when they had 4WD and others didn't, but the cars were too unreliable (and hard to service in the African rallies). Right when other teams came out with 4WD cars, Audi started to fall behind.

[Rallyper]

Audi dominated the rallies when they had 4WD and others didn't, but the cars were too unreliable (and hard to service in the African rallies). Right when other teams came out with 4WD cars, Audi started to fall behind.

When other teams came around they had specially built bodyshells, while Audi was built from standard bodyshell, at least from the beginning. That was Group B and ended up in 86´faster than one could say safety...