[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

**janvanvurpa** · 18th July 2019, 22:38

Originally Posted by mknight

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

**mknight** · 18th July 2019, 23:36

TLDR my response to the linked rating:

**EstWRC** · 19th July 2019, 06:30

Originally Posted by mknight

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

as it really bothers you, you can write to him and make suggestions https://twitter.com/PushingPace

**wrc2017** · 19th July 2019, 08:27

Originally Posted by mknight

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

buuuurrrggghlllllaaaaaaaaaaagghhhhhhhhh.......

**mknight** · 19th July 2019, 09:26

Originally Posted by EstWRC

as it really bothers you, you can write to him and make suggestions https://twitter.com/PushingPace

You brought it up as something worth mentioning.

It just introduced a (complicated) rating that has so many issues that it in the end is about as accurate as simply looking on number of stage wins and number of stages in rally lead.

My suggestion is simply not to bother. Yes you could add tons of other variables, but weighting of these or selecting what belongs to which category would be artificial and you are back to start.

**Fast Eddie WRC** · 19th July 2019, 11:49

Ogier to test Extreme-E car in advisory role:
https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/14...-advisory-role

What is Extreme-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V09GONTUyg8

I wonder if this tech is what we will end up with in WRC after the hybrid years ?

**dimviii** · 19th July 2019, 17:39

Gary Boyd
‏ @KiwiWRCfan

Gaurav Gill of India will contest Rally Turkey, Wales Rally GB and Rally Australia in the new Ford Fiesta R5. #WRC2

**dimviii** · 19th July 2019, 17:48

Phil Short, who has supervised the WRC’s young driver championships for more than a decade, will retire at the end of the season

https://www.wrc.com/en/jwrc/news/201...5--52-52-.html