New R4 Car - Think Tank

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Maybe not (really) related to FIA R4, but this one relates to AP4, another alternative to R5, and this made me surprised.

There are some rumours in Indonesian rallying that one - estabilshed - rally teams are designing Mitsubishi Xpander AP4, which the base comes from the MPV car itself.

Previously they planned to build Mazda 2 AP4 after their visit to Australia/NZ, but it didn't happen because their ties with Mitsubishi

Why they using Xpander for AP4 if there is a Mirage..

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[mArvAlcao17]

Why they using Xpander for AP4 if there is a Mirage..

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Apparently because Xpander's wheelbase are slightly longer than Evo X, so apparently they wanted to put Evo X's transmission etc' to Xpander.

They can use mirage like in NZ, but the developmental cost would be skyrocket, so they want something rather cheaper solutions for now.

2nd reason is of course, marketing. Xpanders are getting popular in Indonesia - so popular that they export a lot of them to few countries. In the same time opposite thing happened to Mirage. Just around 200 units on first six months, and then no units sold for the last three months.

https://www.liputan6.com/otomotif/re...apa-mitsubishi

[Andre Oliveira]

https://r4rallycars.com/asm-motorspo...categoria-fia/

[pantealex]

Fiesta bad (we don´t need R1,R2,R4 and R5 from same car)

Dacia yes please !

[Sulland]

Have anyone seen a price for a turnkey R4 from any of the tuning firms?

[racerx1979]

All I keep hearing is how R4 is already dead??

[pantealex]

In Finnish championship R4 was not allowed 2018, main reason is/was that no one did know speed of R4, does it belong to same class with "R5" or with "N4". Own class is not option because minimum 10 entries is basic rule for class and 2 different 4wd classes is enough.

[m-ast]

For me it's a little bit strange that a spanish company invest in R4 when in our national chamiponships we have N5 that are more or less the same and actually are quite common, probably more than 30 units have been built

[Andre Oliveira]

R4 are FIA, so can be easly sold to everywhere.

[Rally Power]

All I keep hearing is how R4 is already dead??

R4 is not dead, but its biggest problem seems to be R5 success. Like some have pointed here, a new R4 is supposed to cost more than a used R5 and most amateur drivers will think twice before paying more for less; besides, for many of those drivers runing costs (one of R4 advantages) aren’t a big issue, as they usually do a limited number of low mileage national events and in most cases they also have the option to rent a R5 car at competitive prices, which probably is the most rational way to do a handful of events per year.

For me it's a little bit strange that a spanish company invest in R4 when in our national chamiponships we have N5 that are more or less the same and actually are quite common, probably more than 30 units have been built

N5 is the spanish version of Argentinian Maxi Rally. They use Subaru stock transmission and a ligth tuned PSA engine, but they still cost a lot more than a similar proto from Dytko using Mitsubishi mechanics and they don’t have FIA approval, like R4 has. Somehow N5 failed to attract manus attention (with Suzuki exception) and they’ve only become interesting to privateers as there’s a strong pressure from the main tuner (RMC) to sell them and a limited number of local rally companies renting R5’s.

R4 are FIA, so can be easly sold to everywhere.

Probably the best solution is to get a FIA rule for Europe inspired on AP4 regulation, allowing all sort of 4wd protos (MR, N5, AP4, R4, Dytko, etc) to run on a separate class from R5. It’d be easier than having different cars from country to country and would allow drivers to also run and sell their cars abroad. Clearly a win win situation.