Rally Mexico 2018

[stefanvv]

I ask the same

And there is no answer, pitty

[steve.mandzij]

And there is no answer, pitty

I don't know how much more you want me to say. It's fairly simple really: cutting a chicane made with hollow plastic barriers deliberately after testing their rigidity on the first pass through the stage is penalty worthy because it's a time gaining situation.

How you could argue that hitting a rock or a couple of potted trees gives you and advantage like cutting the chicane makes no sense at all. Because, whereas hitting the chicane makes you go through the obstacles faster by moving them, hitting rocks or solid pots make you slow down because they're hard objects that could also damage your car.

It's a shame you're trying to defend your point at this stage because it really makes no sense. Or at least you haven't made it clear yet. This is as easy as I can make it to understand.

[stefanvv]

How you could argue that hitting a rock or a couple of potted trees gives you and advantage like cutting the chicane makes no sense at all.

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?

[steve.mandzij]

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?

Since never.

But cutting excessively receives penalties.

You're never not supposed to cut a corner, as long as you don't completely skip it you're probably fine.

If you're not supposed to cut a chicane and go through it without knocking the obstacle around, why should you not be punished?

If you're doing a race where you're not supposed to knock over cones or you'll get a penalty, why shouldn't you get punished for hitting cones? It's the same principle. You're explicitly not supposed to move the chicane, never explicitly not allowed to have one or two wheels off the road or in a snowbank. You're baffling me.

[stefanvv]

I was little curious about the broken rule, and here it is:

"14.2 ROAD BOOK / ITINERARY
All crews will receive a road book containing a detailed description of the compulsory itinerary which must
be followed. The compulsory itinerary of the rally is defined in the Road Book by the road direction diagrams
and, between the road direction diagrams, by the defined roadway. Furthermore, on the special stages the
organisers may erect barriers or any other hindrances where they believe competitors have deviated from
the roadway during reconnaissance or the first running of the stages.
Any deviation will be reported to the Stewards."

I completely don't understand the reference in this though:

"13.3.4
Attribution of ‘Power Stage’ points
Points will be awarded according to the scale as described in Art. 5.3.2.
For the purpose of allocating points, the Power Stage Classification shall be calculated using the stage time
plus any other time penalty accrued on this stage, including any false start penalty.
To score points, a driver must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally.
If a driver appears in the Power Stage classification but is not classified in the Final Classification of the rally,
the Stewards shall decide whether the next Competitor should be moved up in the Power Stage classification
for the attribution of Power Stage points.
If the Power Stage is definitively stopped before all P1 drivers eligible to start the Power Stage have had the
opportunity to complete the stage, the FIA may decide that no points are awarded for the Power Stage."

Perhaps some lawyer here can explain those?
How much You define deviation from the route in 14.2 - 2 inches? A penalty for the PS time seem to be defined only for false start time - did Ogier broke that rule?

[steve.mandzij]

I was little curious about the broken rule, and here it is:

"14.2 ROAD BOOK / ITINERARY
All crews will receive a road book containing a detailed description of the compulsory itinerary which must
be followed. The compulsory itinerary of the rally is defined in the Road Book by the road direction diagrams
and, between the road direction diagrams, by the defined roadway. Furthermore, on the special stages the
organisers may erect barriers or any other hindrances where they believe competitors have deviated from
the roadway during reconnaissance or the first running of the stages.
Any deviation will be reported to the Stewards."

I completely don't understand the reference in this though:

"13.3.4
Attribution of ‘Power Stage’ points
Points will be awarded according to the scale as described in Art. 5.3.2.
For the purpose of allocating points, the Power Stage Classification shall be calculated using the stage time
plus any other time penalty accrued on this stage, including any false start penalty.
To score points, a driver must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally.
If a driver appears in the Power Stage classification but is not classified in the Final Classification of the rally,
the Stewards shall decide whether the next Competitor should be moved up in the Power Stage classification
for the attribution of Power Stage points.
If the Power Stage is definitively stopped before all P1 drivers eligible to start the Power Stage have had the
opportunity to complete the stage, the FIA may decide that no points are awarded for the Power Stage."

Perhaps some lawyer here can explain those?
How much You define deviation from the route in 14.2 - 2 inches? A penalty for the PS time seem to be defined only for false start time - did Ogier broke that rule?

It says that penalties incurred in the stage count towards it's time, including the false start penalty and I suppose any penalty for cutting corners as well. Correct?

[stefanvv]

It says that penalties incurred in the stage count towards it's time, including the false start penalty and I suppose any penalty for cutting corners as well. Correct?

Correct, but on what ground is the time penalty in 14.2 penalized in 13.3.4? It says organizers can raise obstacles if a driver deviates from the route on the first pass. But in the decision doesn't state that, it says the obstacles are exactly in the same position (and what of it? this is only driver's concern)? I'm a bit confused, looks like they've fallen in their own trap.

How much should be penalized Neuville & Mikkelsen going in the banks several times with more than 2 inches deviation?

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/akikojmlfani/sta...03992514129921


new classification
https://www.ewrc-results.com/season/

[EstWRC]

Est, since Tanak was out, the rally was over for you, right?

No, it was over when Sordo and Loeb had punctures.

Like NOT said, it was fun for 1.5 days but it would have been fun for all 3 days without the troubles.

[AnttiL]

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?

The difference here is that the road book does not contain every single corner - just tells which road to drive, how long, which junction to turn. And of course, anything artificial such as chicanes, and they should not be deviated from.

And a steward’s decision is not automated, it takes a human decision. If Ogier’s time had been slow enough not to get any points in the first place, I doubt the penalty would have been issued.

Stewards are often old professionals, I think Grönholm’s co-driver Timo Rautiainen used to be one.