Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Mirek]

Aren't these retirement stats for the R5 Fiesta going to be biased against it as it was the earliest R5 ?

Of the total number in use, many Fiesta's are going to be older cars and have done more mileage and events.

They were also cheaper to buy originally.

I mentioned only stats for 2017. Fiesta had pretty good numbers (not that good in 2014 when it was new).

I don't think that the age of the rally car makes it worse in relation to reliability. That is more about particular team preparation and maintenance and I think that we can assume that all cars get in average similar maintenance. How old is the bodyshell is imho not very important (see Loeb's Xsara WRC stats).

On the other hand we may ask whether older cars actually aren't generally more reliable because their technical solutions are proven. The new cars often tend to be unreliable because some issues are very hard to find and solve during testing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I mentioned only stats for 2017. Fiesta had pretty good numbers (not that good in 2014 when it was new).

I don't think that the age of the rally car makes it worse in relation to reliability. That is more about particular team preparation and maintenance and I think that we can assume that all cars get in average similar maintenance. How old is the bodyshell is imho not very important (see Loeb's Xsara WRC stats).

On the other hand we may ask whether older cars actually aren't generally more reliable because their technical solutions are proven. The new cars often tend to be unreliable because some issues are very hard to find and solve during testing.

The older cars were still being driven in 2017 though. Plus they would be getting cheaper and into the hands of smaller, less well financed teams. IMO such stats prove nothing.

[Mirek]

The older cars were still being driven in 2017 though. Plus they would be getting cheaper and into the hands of smaller, less well financed teams. IMO such stats prove nothing.

I don't know what You're trying to say. Old bodyshell means nothing. Fiesta R5 has much better reliability stats in 2017 then it had in 2014 so what's Your point? Both Fiesta and Fabia reliability stats show that the cars became more reliable with every following year, i.e. they had the worst reliability when they were new and since then they become gradually better and that is perfectly logical.

By the way Loeb used to drive 4-5 years old bodyshells of Xsara WRC and it didn't stop him from winning WRC titles.

[nafpaktos]

he is msport fan so.....

[Mirek]

he is msport fan so.....

What's wrong with M-Sport stats there? They are pretty good, aren't they?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...

[electroliquid]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...

I don't understand why you seem surprised about these stats? Škoda is a bit better than Ford (quite small margin), everyone know PSA R5 is (at least was) rubbish, I20 relatively new car with possibly not eliminated defects, and Mirage is garage made rally car; everything is true, and reflects in those stats. Old bodyshell is irrelevant - it's all about maintaining car, replacing parts, and how driver using it.

[Mirek]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...

I have posted an article with an analysis based on very large amount of data which us fans don't have. I am not author of the analysis (neither have I any sort of relation to the author or ewrc server) and I don't claim anything besides what is described in the article. It's You who came with a statement which is in direct contradiction with recorded stats therefore it's up to You to back up Your claims (i.e. that older cars become less reliable while the recorded trend shows exactly opposite).

I haven't posted this article because I like Škoda (I like M-Sport too and FYI I worked for years on Ford vehicle development). Yes, it shows Škoda as the most reliable but I think that it's hardly a surprise for anyone. Maybe the fact that M-Sport was on near same numbers is more of a surprise especially considering that M-Sport is much cheaper. M-Sport also has better customer support.

[Rally Power]

It’s never too much to praise and thank eWRC guys for their fantastic work (as long as they keep the site free ), but for them or any other people gathering rally data it may not be easy to establish retirements real causes, as those aren’t always reported by the teams or the organizers.

If a driver destroys a suspension (for example hitting a rock or a tree) and retires, how many times that kind of retirement is classified as 'technical' (mechanical faillure) and not as 'accident' (driver mistake)? Otherwise, a driver can go off the road and even roll due to a brake failure and no technical problem is indicated as the accident cause. On a recent CNR rally, former champ Moura got 2 punctures and retired, after a deep corner cut; somehow the retirement cause appears as ‘mechanical’.

That’s why we should take these reliability stats in a light way.

[Mirek]

Yes, that is for sure a concern but logically this kind of mistake is from its nature global, i.e. it shall not depend on vehicle type. It means that there is for sure a certain error in the stats but this error shall be statistically same for all cars.

You don't need to go after tenths of percent to see that the cars are basically in three largely different groups. First most reliable one is Fabia and Fiesta. Second much worse is PSA cars and i20 and the third worst one is represented by the only private car Mirage. The differences between the groups are so big that few mistakenly reported retirements don't change anything.

I think that it all corresponds with the generally knows stuff, i.e. Škoda and M-Sport put a lot of effort into R5 because it's very important for them. Hyundai R5 seemed to be always a bit of side-project with lower importance. PSA cars are known for many design flaws which were partially fixed in time but many still remain and finally the Mirage as a private project suffers from the same problems as all other similar ones before.