Toyota announces WRC plans

[Grundo Farb]

I don't remember Mr. Wilson complaining when Ford decided to replace Boreham's Motorsport base for his garage in Cockermouth...

Ford contracts made MSport a top force in WRC. Why are so many people doubting the same cannot happen with Toyota and TMR?!?

There's also a huge advantage for the sport in these manufacturers and private teams joint ventures. Manus factory teams are usually limited time involvements, only focused in WRC. When marketing strategy diverge or financial crisis erupt they leave the sport instantly. Private teams has rally as their core business; they'll do everything in order to maintain their sport activities, so they tend to develop other rally categories programs, providing competitive cars to national and regional series, helping the sport growth worldwide.

Ok. If people won't do their own research or think then I will for you.

It will fail as it is all about the details. There is a massive difference between tinkering with a car in the garage - pretty much what many many car preparation companies do around the world and then competing in the WRC.

I did a quick google on subaru rally car preparers, I came up in 30 seconds with Autosportif, TEG sport, A&H motorsport, Vermont Sportscars, MSL Motorsport etc. All of them like Tommi, modify Subaru Imprezzas. What has he got with regards car preparation pedigree that sets him apart? Nothing, they are all the same. He hasn't won anything with his prepared cars has he?

So lets then look at what he thinks he will be doing. Building and then testing a car himself. He probably can, Alex Kelsey a 19 year old in New Zealand did that.
BUT:
Who will make decisions on the drivers? Who will look after the driver development program? Who will build the sponsorship packages and then entertain the sponsors? Who will spec and buy the equipment for the rally bases in each location and kit out the mechanics? Who will optimise the work the mechanics do? Who will design and get the clothes for the team? Who will organise the catering in the different countries? Who will work out the parts requirements and then ensure they are all available in the right place for each rally? Who will manage the accounts? Who will book the travel? The accommodation? What recce cars will they use?

Why do you think VW did all of this for 12 months with a Skoda and Ogier driving in WRC2??????? Because they had 12 months to kill before the car was ready????

But Tommi says "I will build a car and I will test it".

And please please please stop comparing Tommi and his garage to Malcolm Wilson:

Malcolm Wilson was driving and developing the Escort Cosworth before Ford gave him contracts for the WRC programme, he had an existing relationship and a familiarity with the company. His team won national titles in several countries with the car so he had A) a track record and B) experience of the required logistics to support teams in other countries. The WRC car was originally developed by Ford Motorsport and then handed over to the Belgian RAS Team in 1994. They then took it back in 1996 as it wasn't a success with the Belgians (alarm bells here guys). I know this as my Brother worked for Ford Motorsport in the late 80's early 90's.

Malcolm Wilson wasn't given the contract to run the team and car until the end of 1996 for the 1997 season (the car was still the Escort Cosworth - and had been developed by Ford) the first M-Sport develop car didn't arrive until 1999.

So, he had AT LEAST 3 years experience with the car and company before he entered the WRC with a car not developed by him but Ford Motorsport. He then had another 2 years to get used to the logistics and team management BEFORE a new car was developed.

Take the time to think about this guys.

Honestly people - this is not the small time. It is not a garage next to your house with a bunch of mates.

It is the WRC.

[stefanvv]

Who said TMR will win WRC in their first 2-3 years?!?

[N.O.T]

Who said TMR will win WRC in their first 2-3 years?!?

nobody, but i guess that should be the plan when you spend millions... at least for normal people with common understanding.

[Rallyper]

But isn´t it a joint venture between Cologne and Tommi? To me it looks pretty clear it will end up like that and all the logistics and problems Grundo Farb was pointing to have been solved. Sponsors? Nah, Toyota doesn´t need them. And companys in motorsport branches will come and ask to put a sticker on their cars anyway.

[Rally Power]

Ok. If people won't do their own research or think then I will for you.

It will fail as it is all about the details. There is a massive difference between tinkering with a car in the garage - pretty much what many many car preparation companies do around the world and then competing in the WRC.

I did a quick google on subaru rally car preparers, I came up in 30 seconds with Autosportif, TEG sport, A&H motorsport, Vermont Sportscars, MSL Motorsport etc. All of them like Tommi, modify Subaru Imprezzas. What has he got with regards car preparation pedigree that sets him apart? Nothing, they are all the same. He hasn't won anything with his prepared cars has he?

So lets then look at what he thinks he will be doing. Building and then testing a car himself. He probably can, Alex Kelsey a 19 year old in New Zealand did that.
BUT:
Who will make decisions on the drivers? Who will look after the driver development program? Who will build the sponsorship packages and then entertain the sponsors? Who will spec and buy the equipment for the rally bases in each location and kit out the mechanics? Who will optimise the work the mechanics do? Who will design and get the clothes for the team? Who will organise the catering in the different countries? Who will work out the parts requirements and then ensure they are all available in the right place for each rally? Who will manage the accounts? Who will book the travel? The accommodation? What recce cars will they use?

Why do you think VW did all of this for 12 months with a Skoda and Ogier driving in WRC2??????? Because they had 12 months to kill before the car was ready????

But Tommi says "I will build a car and I will test it".

And please please please stop comparing Tommi and his garage to Malcolm Wilson:

Malcolm Wilson was driving and developing the Escort Cosworth before Ford gave him contracts for the WRC programme, he had an existing relationship and a familiarity with the company. His team won national titles in several countries with the car so he had A) a track record and B) experience of the required logistics to support teams in other countries. The WRC car was originally developed by Ford Motorsport and then handed over to the Belgian RAS Team in 1994. They then took it back in 1996 as it wasn't a success with the Belgians (alarm bells here guys). I know this as my Brother worked for Ford Motorsport in the late 80's early 90's.

Malcolm Wilson wasn't given the contract to run the team and car until the end of 1996 for the 1997 season (the car was still the Escort Cosworth - and had been developed by Ford) the first M-Sport develop car didn't arrive until 1999.

So, he had AT LEAST 3 years experience with the car and company before he entered the WRC with a car not developed by him but Ford Motorsport. He then had another 2 years to get used to the logistics and team management BEFORE a new car was developed.

Take the time to think about this guys.

Honestly people - this is not the small time. It is not a garage next to your house with a bunch of mates.

It is the WRC.

You ended saying what I've said: before Ford contracts to run their cars in WRC, Malcolm Wilson Motorsport (Msport previous designation) was a team that built cars for costumers using Ford Motorsport designed, tested and developed parts. It was, just like Tommi Makinen Racing has been, a preparation company (with modest facilities near the boss's house, also like TMR...). For sure MWM did a pretty good job setting up Gr.A Escorts, but TMR task preparing Gr.N Imprezas was also a competent one, otherwise it wouldn't be possible for the company to end Prodrive Gr.N domination and sell cars all over the world. Of course, in WRC, S2000 and R5 days Gr.N cars achievements are less noticeable than Gr.A in their glory era, but if you continue the research effort you'll be able to learn TMR Imprezas records.

For sure Tommi will be busy getting his team sorted out and TMR/Toyota first season will be a learning one, but we can expect that TMR will take less than 10 years to give a world title to his manufacturer partner...

Btw, I'm a Msport enthusiast, not by their erratic WRC path but for the company costumers programs (from R1 to R5, S2000 and RRC/WRC), that are a huge contribution for rally sport development around the world.

[Sulland]

How far into the future can we expect Toyota to start selling R3s and R5s, maybe also R2s?
Their R1A is just a cup car, being the only one in the A cat I guess.

[Rally Power]

How far into the future can we expect Toyota to start selling R3s and R5s, maybe also R2s?
Their R1A is just a cup car, being the only one in the A cat I guess.

Impossible to say, but after setting down WRC car for sure TMR will try to sort R2/R5 cars. They're good business!

[Simmi]

I have to say this seeming commitment to making customer cars is a really good thing and another reason to support this Toyota programme. Obviously it's a balancing act as they don't want their primary product (the WRC car) to fall flat.

[JAM]

The difference between Tommi Makinen and the others is this:

All the others talked and acted as managers to create structures and teams, Tommi Makinen is acting and talking as a driver and a mechanic to create a structure and a team.

[stgpower]

Your statement makes complete sense to me... at least one here that have got the lucidity to realize that the move to TMR is very difficult to understand and justify...