The most up to date list of the best of modern era journeymen racers

[zako85]

1. Hill (Damon)
2. Button
3. Berger
4. Massa
5. Rosberg
6. Hulkenberg
7. Perez
..
10. Barrichello

[zako85]

Define modern era as the time span when F1 drivers weren't dying like flies.

[The Black Knight]

What criteria defines a journeyman racer?

[AndyL]

A bit harsh to omit Vettel, he's as good as any on that list.



The summer break can't be over soon enough.

[zako85]

What criteria defines a journeyman racer?

The common definition it is somebody who is talented enough to hang around in the series for quiet a long time without necessarily being a pay driver. This driver sticks around long enough in order to achieve success by the virtue of long experience or by luck with some stars simply aligning his way. This is quite different from the drivers whom we regard as sports truly great. Most of the truly good drivers have been on the podium steps starting with their first full time season in in F1. Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso (*his second season), Hamilton and Vettel. Granted there were exceptions. Hill has done pretty well in his very first season at F1, and that's why I put him at the top.

[zako85]

A bit harsh to omit Vettel, he's as good as any on that list.

Vettel, the guy who won Toro Rosso's first ever and the last GP in 2008, and who won the first ever GP for Red Bull in 2009, beating Red Bull's own veteran driver, guy we know as Webber, can't be regarded as a journeyman IMO.

PS: My bad, I should have put Webber somewhere up on the list. Somewhere near Massa and Rosberg. Oh how the mighty have fallen. It's been only two years..

[gm99]

To me, a journeyman racer is someone who is with a different team just about every other season, may win a race or two, but without ever being in serious contention for a world championship.

De Cesaris springs to mind here, as do Boutsen, Alesi, Heidfeld, Herbert, Brundle, Trulli or Fisichella.

Drivers like Hill or Button, who have won a championship or have at least come agonizingly close (Massa, Webber) , do not meet the journeyman criteria, IMO.

[rjbetty]

To me, a journeyman racer is someone who is with a different team just about every other season, may win a race or two, but without ever being in serious contention for a world championship.

De Cesaris springs to mind here, as do Boutsen, Alesi, Heidfeld, Herbert, Brundle, Trulli or Fisichella.

Drivers like Hill or Button, who have won a championship or have at least come agonizingly close (Massa, Webber) , do not meet the journeyman criteria, IMO.

My definition of a journeyman racer is similar, someone who's not a top driver but who spends a fairly long career in mostly midfield teams, just a standard rent a driver who will do a decent job but is unlikely to excel, someone like Adrian Sutil.

But this would also be a paid driver, not bringing money. So I don't know if there are any real journeyman racers anymore. Even Sutil brought money. Seems to be a thing of the past. Maybe people like Salo, Herbert, Verstappen, and yeah, de Cesaris, Heidfeld and Brundle.

[Hawkmoon]

To me, a journeyman racer is someone who is with a different team just about every other season, may win a race or two, but without ever being in serious contention for a world championship.

De Cesaris springs to mind here, as do Boutsen, Alesi, Heidfeld, Herbert, Brundle, Trulli or Fisichella.

Drivers like Hill or Button, who have won a championship or have at least come agonizingly close (Massa, Webber) , do not meet the journeyman criteria, IMO.

I think winning the WDC removes a driver from the journeyman list. Hill, Button and to a lesser extent Villeneuve were 'weak' world champions compared to the greats but they were champions none-the-less and beat all comers. In any given year you can't do better than that.

Gerhard Berger and Riccardo Patrese are the epitome of a 'journeyman' in my book. Good enough to win on their day but never in with a realistic chance of beating a champion over the course of a full season.

[AndyL]

To me, a journeyman racer is someone who is with a different team just about every other season, may win a race or two, but without ever being in serious contention for a world championship.

De Cesaris springs to mind here, as do Boutsen, Alesi, Heidfeld, Herbert, Brundle, Trulli or Fisichella.

Heidfeld must surely be the king of the journeymen. 183 starts over a 12 year career, was a regular points-scorer in most years, and even took 13 podiums, yet no-one can remember a single thing he ever did.