Mercedes strategy of the Race - Monaco

[Nitrodaze]

While it is easy to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, and I'd be the first to do so if I thought there was a one, I think this was a pure simple case of complete and utter brain fart. I still can't believe what we saw. It's the worst team decision I've ever witnessed in F1.

Can anyone think of something so outrageously stupid that matches this?

I suppose one could give Mercedes the benefit of the doubt. They obviously have a lemon on their pit wall, so one would expect to see some changes in that area at the next few races. The true impact of this error (if we can call it that) would be apparent as we approach the end of the season.

[Mark]

Lewis is still ahead so he just has to keep doing what he's doing.

[The Black Knight]

I suppose one could give Mercedes the benefit of the doubt. They obviously have a lemon on their pit wall, so one would expect to see some changes in that area at the next few races. The true impact of this error (if we can call it that) would be apparent as we approach the end of the season.

He has the beating of his teammate this season. He should easily win the title. He just needs to recuperate and gather himself for the next race. He's still in the lead of the championship so it's still his to lose as long as Mercedes don't do what they did yesterday again.

[Bagwan]

Did he hit his perfect position in the pit stop ?
If not exactly , it's his fault .

If he got it right , then it was one or more of his crew that cost him the win , as they were a second and a half slower than his previous stop .

According to Allen , it should have taken 17 seconds , and it took 18.5 or so , in and out of pit lane .


So , to his team strategists , it was still within the window where it would work , albeit scary close .

And , as it worked out , it was only about a half a second that they needed to stay ahead of both Nico and Seb .



It should have worked .

I guess it should have been communicated to Lewis that neither of his closest rivals had gone in for tires .
Had he known this , he surely wouldn't have wanted to , himself , and wouldn't have lobbied his team for new skins at all .

He needs to remember , though , that he did ask for tires , and was happy , at the time , to pit for them .
It was only when he emerged from the pits that he was struck by the fact that he was now relegated to third .

[truefan72]

Did he hit his perfect position in the pit stop ?
If not exactly , it's his fault .

If he got it right , then it was one or more of his crew that cost him the win , as they were a second and a half slower than his previous stop .

According to Allen , it should have taken 17 seconds , and it took 18.5 or so , in and out of pit lane .


So , to his team strategists , it was still within the window where it would work , albeit scary close .

And , as it worked out , it was only about a half a second that they needed to stay ahead of both Nico and Seb .



It should have worked .

I guess it should have been communicated to Lewis that neither of his closest rivals had gone in for tires .
Had he known this , he surely wouldn't have wanted to , himself , and wouldn't have lobbied his team for new skins at all .

He needs to remember , though , that he did ask for tires , and was happy , at the time , to pit for them .
It was only when he emerged from the pits that he was struck by the fact that he was now relegated to third .

here we go
1. if it took an extra 1.5 seconds in the pit then that would be down to the typical slowness of the mercedes pit crew who on more than one occasion have taken their time to change Hamilton's tires in comparison to Rosberg. But that is all a mute point.

2. every driver had something to say about their tires. They asked him about his and he gave them his assessment. He did not say it was undrinkable or that he needed to change tires but instead remarked that he would be at a disadvantage if both rosberg and vettel switched to super softs and he remained out on the older softs. That wast him saying. "Bring me in and change tires no matter what my competitors are doing." A good race engineer would have told him not to worry as both rosberg and vettel were not changing tires and that this was monoco if he pet his head down he would stay ahead and win the race easy. In fact the top 5 drivers behind him were not changing tires.

3. and that is the most important factor. The blame lies squarely with pete bonnington, his incompetent race engineer and the entire useless strategy team from mercedes. It should have been easy enough to figure out that neither rosberg nor vettel were coming in. It sohuld also have been easy to figure out that THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PIT STOP FOR ANY REASON as well. With about an 8 lap sprint to the end in monaco with tires that just got less worn because of the SC period, nobody was going to overtake him, no matter what they had done. Furthermore. Due to his current lead, if vettel or rosberg had decided to pit they would have surely come out behind kyvatt, kimi and ricciardo. This was obvious to the rosberg side of the garage and for some strange reason, pete "useless" bonnington couldn't figure that out. I bet you $100 that rosberg engineer probably laughed off any call to bring in rosberg. Meanwhile pete bonnington, not for probably the 4 time in 2 years, allowed the bloody race strategists, to take over his side of the garage to the detriment of his driver.

4. therefore, First, would get rid of bonnington and bring in someone whose first priority is to ensure his driver's best interest and has the balls to insist on a strategy that will not harm his driver.
Second, I would get rid of the the race strategists who made the call.
Third, I would relegate toto wolf or paddy lowe to a spectator role during the GP. You can't have 5 different people trying to make decisions that Ross Brawn alone could have made.

But once again to me it really comes down to the race engineer. Rosberg has a good one who looks out for his driver. Hamilton has one that capitulates to the team and allows horrible decisions to be made. Fails to provide the driver with crucial information and offers advice that more often than not is detrimental to his driver. This cannot continue. If Hamilton knew that rosberg and vettel were not pitting then he would have easily questioned why he was to be brought in. The fact that this information was not relayed to him is probably the main reason for all the problems. No matter what the folks were telling him he would have simply said. If they are not coming in neither am I!

[Mark]

But at the same time the driver is not in a position to second guess what the team is telling him. If the team says pit he has to have the confidence that this is the right call.

How that confidence will be restored is the question now.

[anfield5]

Mistakes happen, deal with it. Merc obviously though they had enough time to get him in and out first. If I remember the call was made under VSC conditions, which would have been fine as the field was holding station and distance. When the sc came out the field were able to close up and reduce the gaps, meaning there was less time to change shoes. This is where Merc made the mistake, as soon as the sc came out they should have waved him on.

[Nitrodaze]

Mistakes happen, deal with it. Merc obviously though they had enough time to get him in and out first. If I remember the call was made under VSC conditions, which would have been fine as the field was holding station and distance. When the sc came out the field were able to close up and reduce the gaps, meaning there was less time to change shoes. This is where Merc made the mistake, as soon as the sc came out they should have waved him on.

Mistakes happen but stupidity is a different category. This one errs on plain stupidity. Pick anyone at random from the pit lane and they would definitely make the opposite call.

[Bagwan]

Nico and Seb both said it was like driving on ice , and Lewis would have been seeing a big lead fall away , and hungry guys coming up behind him for a safety car restart .
That would have made anyone uncomfortable .

He said he saw the screens showing the Merc guys out in pit lane , ready to cover a Ferrari move .
Naturally , he'd want to get tires if it looked like either or both were heading in .

It was all very logical , and it should have worked .


By the way , Truefan , I'm sure you meant "moot" and not "mute" in reference to your point #1 .
Your meaning must have been to call it insignificant , rather than silent .

While I do understand that you believe that Hamilton has been poorly treated by the team in the pits , it sounds like you see it as a conspiracy of sorts , and I'm sorry , but I don't see it .

In reference to the idea that the 1.5 seconds were moot , I certainly do not agree .
Roughly a third of that time was all he needed and he would have sailed off again into the distance while the others lumbered around on ice .


If you want to look for a conspiracy , look to race control , who tossed in the safety car when the procedure all expected was the virtual one .
It was a curious decision that cost Lewis the time that made it even close to dangerous for Lewis to pit .

[truefan72]

Nico and Seb both said it was like driving on ice , and Lewis would have been seeing a big lead fall away , and hungry guys coming up behind him for a safety car restart .
That would have made anyone uncomfortable .

He said he saw the screens showing the Merc guys out in pit lane , ready to cover a Ferrari move .
Naturally , he'd want to get tires if it looked like either or both were heading in .

It was all very logical , and it should have worked .


By the way , Truefan , I'm sure you meant "moot" and not "mute" in reference to your point #1 .
Your meaning must have been to call it insignificant , rather than silent .

While I do understand that you believe that Hamilton has been poorly treated by the team in the pits , it sounds like you see it as a conspiracy of sorts , and I'm sorry , but I don't see it .

In reference to the idea that the 1.5 seconds were moot , I certainly do not agree .
Roughly a third of that time was all he needed and he would have sailed off again into the distance while the others lumbered around on ice .


If you want to look for a conspiracy , look to race control , who tossed in the safety car when the procedure all expected was the virtual one .
It was a curious decision that cost Lewis the time that made it even close to dangerous for Lewis to pit .

Yes an error on my part i meant to say moot not mute

but i think that generally it was a ridiculous decision to pit him as it was clear the other top 5 drivers were not coming in.
given the remaining laps and his lead, it was going to be pretty much impossible for anyone to pass him.

He was covering off nobody. There was no undercut, there was zero reason to come in.

The only one saying it was like driving on ice was Vettel and that was in reference to the tires getting too cold due to the extended SC period.

Logic would dictate that the situation would be the same for all the top 3. so if it was tough on seb and nico it would be tough on hamilton, but he was in the lead, and nothing indicated that he would not build back a small advantage again for the remaining few laps. Rosberg certainly wouldn't challenge him and risk damaging both cars, so in effect he became a rear-gunner, which ironically is what vettel did for rosberg after the pitstop.

And once again, even if nico and seb came in (which they wouldn't) they would come out 3 spots further back behind kvyatt, kimi and Ricciardo, and with the superior mercedes package, Hamilton would have easily hung on to win the race while seb and nico would never have made it past those 3 ahead. Even if noco and seb somehow managed to get out ahead of those 3 they would still not find a way to get past hamilton. There was no underuct situation or passing opportunity and the 2 mercs controlled the pace throughout the race. Even with fresher tires vettel wasn't going to get past rosberg and rosberg was certainly no match for Hamilton on that day.

In the end, nobody struggled on the worn softs. Remember the super softs just did a half race distance with heavier fuel., the softs did less than that and benefited from about 6 laps where they were not being tested during the SC period.

Furthermore, the ferrari had trouble warming the tires while the mercedes, especially in hamilton's hands could get back on pace fairly quickly in the cooler temps. Which was borne out by Rosberg scampering off after the restart and within 3 laps had almost a 4 second lead. Meanwhile, vettel was left to defend his 2nd position with a faster car with fresher tires behind. And he did that easily.

All in all it was a failure of his race engineer not to inform him that nobody in the top 6 positions was pitting. It was a failure of the team to do an unnecessary pitstop, and it resulted in a a debacle. It wasn't simply an error, it was a cascading calamity of failure up and down the pitwall. There was absolutely nothing to be gained by pitting from the lead and everything to loose. and they chose the latter. I don't care about calculations, etc, or if it switched from a VSC to SC, the point remains that there should have never been a call to the pits. thus rendering the first point about the 1.5secs moot IMO.

As to conspiracy theory, of course not, but it is a fact that for whatever reason, his pitstops always seem slower than those of rosberg on average.
It shouldn't be, but it always is.