Fox Hunting - Right or Wrong?

[Hazell B]

My answer about the burning house explains that I think that view is strange (maybe stupid :\ )

But most often we have the choice and never face an either/or situation.

For example, I hate lamping and would shoot at (above their heads, obviously) men who set their dogs on my cat. I wouldn't shoot at their dogs.
I'd tell a fur wearer what I think of them in no uncertain terms, and actually have done. It was fun :

If you want to decide if human or animal rights would win ask yourselves this question. Would you like to see captive Indian tigers released back into the wild? If you're Indian, would you like to see captive European wolves released back into Scotland? Most people answer yes straight away, without even considering that tigers eat humans

With animals there is always emotion. Misplaced half the time, but emotion as strong as it gets. It makes for stupid idealistic visions of a happier, friendly animal kingdom that cannot exist. I stupidly thought we could keep foxes off our land, but there they are using my arena as a toilet every night, giving my dogs fleas and taking all the cat's food. But they're so cute

[Brown, Jon Brow]

In highland sheep farms they can't have any buildings at all for miles sometimes thanks to townies (yes, them again) moaning about how it looks on the pretty hillsides, so I guess many of their sheep just give birth behind some heather and take their chances.

Oh god! lets not even go there!

I don't think that there is a barn in the country big enough to accommodate 700 lambs and their mothers. My brother only has about 12 sheep that breed inside. These are usually the ones that have triplets and don't have enough milk to feed the lambs, so he gives the lambs some of his own and there are blue faced Leicesters, who's lambs are too fragile for the Cumbrian climate.

[Eki]

Eki, sorry I forgot to address your posts about lambs being kept in.

Perhaps on lowland farms they can be, for a few days, but in the majority of sheep farming keeping them indoors for more than two or three days is impossible. Some sheep never spend a day under cover in their life, so they'd freak for starters. Being terrified while heavily pregnant or with a lamb beside them isn't exactly offering them good care, is it? But that's the least of their problems when it comes to being indoors....

I think in Finland the sheep are kept indoors the cold and snowy winter months (that's at least 3 months a year).

...sheep need fresh air, so the buildings would allow foxes in anyway as they'd be about 30-50% open (as most sheep housing is as the moment). UK sheep farmers tend to have a large area with a roof and two sides that are part latted with wood and 10cm(ish) gaps, then an open gated front and rear. That way it's dry but cool, airy but not draughty. You can't fox proof a building like that.

Can't they use wire mesh like the bear den in this webcam?



That's tight enough to keep the foxes in or out, but still allows in fresh air.

[Eki]

Here are some pictures of a Finnish sheep house. Well, I must admit it doesn't look too cozy for the sheep, but at least it keeps them dry and their fodder from being buried in snow:

[sxis]

So, if you did see this happen, why didn't I read about it being prosecuted on? You saw it and didn't let the RSPCA know? You are as guilty of cruelty as the people who did it in that case

Or did you see it on one of the LACS 1970's videos on TV? If you did, it was prosecuted on and the people responsible were sacked. As they should be.

If you have Hunted for as long as I have you'd know better than to judge all Hunting on one moron's actions shown by an anti-Hunt group

it wasnt shown by an anti hunt group i was there ! and dont pass the blame on to me for the actions of the hunting fraternity

[oily oaf]

Eki. Please refrain from posting hardcore Welsh pornography in this thread

This is a family forum (drone)
You wouldn't catch me reproducing this kind of smutty.........(whine, simper)

PS I don't fancy yours much squire.

[Hazell B]

it wasnt shown by an anti hunt group i was there ! and dont pass the blame on to me for the actions of the hunting fraternity

Why not? You saw somebody torture a fox for fun and did nothing but tell us here and you think that's okay? I do not. You are covering up somebody's crime and allowing them to carry on acting like that. You are to blame as much as they are if it carries on, in my opinion.

Eki, that last picture shows just how crammed in those animals are. We don't like keeping them that way here. We're not so cold as Finland, so they'd be too warm half the time anyway.

Plus, if you've ever tried getting planning permission for anything in the UK countryside, you'd know there's not a hope in hell of building shelter for sheep in 80% or more of locations where they're kept. Moving them about between fields is bad enough with our busy roads and tight restrictions on movement, just imagine having to move them ten miles off a hillside to a town edge building to give birth .... then have the locals complain about the noise they make (they're really loud when they have lambs) and **** crap all over the roads.

There was a mass panic in York about a month ago when two little male calves got out of the auction centre. Armed police had to close the main road in and out, the A64, twice and shoot them in the end. The calves (or rampant bulls as the papers and TV news called them ) where running around in a field two strong fences away from the road, yet the lads at the auction where told to just leave them and the police would deal with it - two weeks later as it happened - so imagine the fuss if a few sheep made a break and got on the roads. They ended up having armed police on pallets hoisted up on fork trucks stalking the calves for two full days in a field only 14 acres big

Great practice for the police, but considering John the stockman had been sneaking them food over the gate and from his forktruck hardly worth the fuss

[Eki]

Eki, that last picture shows just how crammed in those animals are.

Yes, I agree they look crammed. But maybe if they sold half of them or built another shelter, so that the number of sheep per shelter would be smaller.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Yes, I agree they look crammed. But maybe if they sold half of them or built another shelter, so that the number of sheep per shelter would be smaller.

Can't build a new shelter because of planning permission, can't sell sheep because farmers hardly make a profit with the sheep they have.

[Eki]

Finnish tomato farmers and such often have large greenhouses. Maybe if you replaced the glass/plastic windows with wire mesh they could be suitable for sheep: