Horner whines to the FIA

[Doc Austin]

Industry disagrees with you. Motor industry doesn't want to waste money on developing something, which doesn't have future. And green has future!

Yes, but how many racing fans actually give a schitt about hybrid systems and the green agenda? I don't care about that. I just want to see the cars go fast and the drivers race their arse off.

[CNR]

i wonder what would happen if you put one of williams engine in the Mercedes ?
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30273.html
"Mercedes has hit back at claims it is not supplying the same specification of engine to its F1 customers.

In Australia, Williams' Felipe Massa was the fastest non-works Mercedes driver in qualifying, but the gap to Lewis Hamilton's pole time was a massive 1.4 seconds.

Brazilian Massa admitted he suspects Mercedes might be supplying inferior equipment to its Grove-based customer.

"If we have the same engine the difference should be in the car," he said. "I hope we have the same engine. I believe we have the same engine, so it's the car.

"Maybe," said Massa.
"

[anfield5]

This argument always comes up. When Cosworth were supplying the bulk of the engines in the 70's and early 80's, the inferior teams would claim that they 'important' customers eg Lotus were getting better engines than themselves, they would refuse to believe Lotus won because their engineering was better. Same when Honda supplied McLaren in the 90's etc, etc. It is the default position to explain why they are not quite as good as Mercedes.

No disrespect to little Fil, but the driver has something to do with it as well. Many little things quickly add up

[Rollo]

and finally. change the payment scale from these secretive ridiculous agreements to an equitable profit sharing system. This will allow the smaller teams to not struggle and constantly worry about financials.
I would cap the teams at 13. Then each will participate in the revenue sharing system. Winners will still get a bonus and extra money, but this will ensure that the smaller teams won't ever struggle again. and in a few years would catch up to the bigger teams. The sport will be stable, the field will be stable, Everyone wins.

Except Bernie.

He obviously cares nil for the smaller teams; this is evidenced by a 30 year track record. This is the same chap who actively let Brabham die whilst he was still in charge, who watched on while Team Lotus imploded and who paid what amounts to a £60m bribe to a court to get out of a bribery charge.
The teams won't result in a better revenue sharing system whilst one particular imp retains 23% of all revenues for himself, has done deals with certain teams to retain that slice.

Incidentally, Bernie also know about pay drivers being rubbish; having been one himself and failing to qualify for two grands prix in 1958.

[anfield5]

Except Bernie.

He obviously cares nil for the smaller teams; this is evidenced by a 30 year track record. This is the same chap who actively let Brabham die whilst he was still in charge, who watched on while Team Lotus imploded and who paid what amounts to a £60m bribe to a court to get out of a bribery charge.
The teams won't result in a better revenue sharing system whilst one particular imp retains 23% of all revenues for himself, has done deals with certain teams to retain that slice.

Incidentally, Bernie also know about pay drivers being rubbish; having been one himself and failing to qualify for two grands prix in 1958.

Only failed to qualify in Monaco. In the British race Jack Fairman had the car and 'Wiggy the Imp' was named as the second driver, just in case he was needed during the race.

[jens]

Yes, but how many racing fans actually give a schitt about hybrid systems and the green agenda? I don't care about that. I just want to see the cars go fast and the drivers race their arse off.

Well, this is true. I also watch F1 mainly for racing, though there are additional elements, why I watch specifically F1 and not other racing series. So it has to be "pinnacle of motorsport" as well, or at least leave such impression in whichever way! That it is worth watching F1 more so than other series.

But I also have to understand the point of view of others, i.e industry. World doesn't exist in isolation, neither does F1 racing.

[Jag_Warrior]

Although I understand the point of view of those who don't want to see one team run away with it from the first race on, I find it rather offensive that if the FIA(T) go after the Mercedes engine, they'll also be handicapping Williams, Force India and Lotus.

If there's something illegal on the Mercedes chassis, then ban it. But to go after an engine manufacturer, just because the other manufacturers didn't do their homework as well as the Merc boys? No, that's not F1 either. Personally, I'd love to see McLaren-Honda come on strong and beat Red Bull-Renault into the dust. It's just too bad Newey didn't go to Ferrari with Vettel, IMO.

[Doc Austin]

Although I understand the point of view of those who don't want to see one team run away with it from the first race on, I find it rather offensive that if the FIA(T) go after the Mercedes engine, they'll also be handicapping Williams, Force India and Lotus.

The way the rules are written, they FIA sort of reserved the right to equalize things, but I don't think it's right. The rules were the same for everyone when this new formula started, so why change now just because everyone but Mercedes got it wrong? Then again, the rules for equalizing things have been in there from the beginning too, so Mercedes should have known all along this could/would have happened.

Still, it takes away the incentive to excel if they can take it away with the swipe of a pen.

I'm not a big fan of changing the rules just because they don't suit a particular manufacturer, but for decades manufacturers have used the threat of quitting to get what they want. Sure enough, Red Bull is threatening to quit, almost like clockwork. Remembering that Red Bull really represents four cars (out of Sunday's 15 car field!), you can bet this won't be the end of it. we are going to hear about the inequity all year long and I am willing to be the FIA ends up doing something, even if it is wrong.

Horner does have a point though about how hard the FIA came down on them when they were dominating and now nothing is being done to reel Mercedes in. Then again, the FIA has never earned a reputation for fair governing, so why start now?

If there's something illegal on the Mercedes chassis, then ban it. But to go after an engine manufacturer, just because the other manufacturers didn't do their homework as well as the Merc boys? No, that's not F1 either.

Except the FIA left themselves room in the rules to step in and "equalize" things. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but surely the FIA will find a way to make a mess out of it. It is probably too early to panic because Renault is now claiming they were so bad in Australia because of last minute updates. Imagine the FIA cuts them a break and then they find a solution to their problem and go to the front. How pissed would Mercedes be over that?

You and I will probably watch formula One no matter who is dominating or how bad it is. Unfortunately, there are probably not enough diehards to sustain a sport that requires $95 million cars. If it gets real boring (like Saturday night) TV numbers will sag and the FIA will have no choice. It does not matter any more what is right or sporting ...... it's all about the money now. Actually it has always been about money but formula One has never worried about suffered fan apathy until recently.

The FIA has to keep it interesting enough so that people tune in. Otherwise there would be no point in the manufacturers being there to begin with. Formula One has gotten so complicated and so expensive that everyone is pretty much trapped.

My lasting impression of the race was the very last lap when Nico had seemingly given up and fell back a little. The Mercs circulated around in apparent formation, miles ahead and making it look ridiculously easy. It was actually significant history unfolding and a level of domination we have probably never seen before. It's hard to see this as being good for formula One, but I don't have a fair answer.

[Rollo]

The FIA has to keep it interesting enough so that people tune in.

This an interesting paradox.

Do you as the BTCC have done and reject an offer from pay-TV so that the sport remains on free-to-air and thus retains eyeballs or do you monetise the existing fan base and risk destroying it? I think that the FIA is currently on the road of Ouroboros, the snake will eat itself.

F1 should have looked at the lessons from Germany. where RTL is now the pauper against Sky Sport and Sport 1. When Schumacher was winning championships, there wasn't a problem but lately, pay-TV views have falled off the cliff. I don't know what RTL's arrangements are like for 2015 but if they're similar to the UK, F1 will die a death in Germany.

[Doc Austin]

I think the answer to everything is to simplify everything, starting with the cars. After that they need to adjust the pay scale to keep all the teams solvent.