Horner whines to the FIA

[Doc Austin]

IIRC they stole the old forums and rebranded them as there own.

If chipped baloney got screwed I am all for it.

[Doc Austin]

Mercedes answers:

"I think 'just get your f***ing head down, work hard and try to sort it out'," ............. Toto Wolfe

"Those who continuously criticise have no idea what they are talking about," Niki Lauda

And, the ultimate burn.......

"Everything comes from Red Bull because they're annoyed their car doesn't work" Niki Lauda

[CNR]

Red Bull's biggest complaint is "driveability," so it's a good bet that Torro Rosso is running something different.

b spec engine not the same one as redbull

[truefan72]

b spec engine not the same one as redbull

but yet, the STR is more hooked up than the rBR and is probably that bit faster.
Lets rember that RBR won 3/4 straight championships with an engine that was slightly less powerful than the competition., but yet in 2 of those 4 years still manged to comfortably distance themselves from the competition in most races. to the point where vettel would often just toy around in the car and go for fastest laps and other things since the race was well in hand.

Mercedes advantage is not the engine per se, but the entire package. Which ironically was the same thing that gave RBR its advantage when they dominated.

I have a 100+ quotes of Horner during those days talking about the RBR dominance being good for the sport and that other teams need to figure out how to catch up rather than them taking their foot of the gas. So his position now is laughable at best and downright idiotic at worst. Mercedes isn't even close to the top times in the speed traps. I believe 4th behind Williams, Sauber and ferrari.

Yes I would like to see more competitive racing, but i am not going to begrudge MB for doing whats right better than the rest.
Their cars are heavily scrutineered and unlike RBR in its heyday, have not fallen afoul of any regs or gained dubious advantages.
So i firmly say to horner...STFU

[Rollo]

Mercedes advantage is not the engine per se, but the entire package. Which ironically was the same thing that gave RBR its advantage when they dominated.

The three engines for 2014:

Mercedes - 169 points per car
Ferrari - 55 points per car
Renault - 36 points per car

The four engines for 2013:

Mercedes - 93 points per car
Ferrari - 74 points per car
Renault - 114 points per car
Cosworth - 0 points per car

That says that relative to 2013, Mercedes engines scored more points than Renault did. Renault fell off the cliff in terms of performance.

Yes I would like to see more competitive racing, but i am not going to begrudge MB for doing whats right better than the rest.

I'm not going to begrudge MB for being better either. That's the point of motor racing and of sport generally, to go away and to find ways to win.
For many years the DFV Cosworth was the thing to have and then, bang, out of nowhere the boffins at BMW came out with their BMW M12. They looked at the rules, and made something better. Full credit to M-B.

So i firmly say to horner...STFU

+1

Absolutely!

[truefan72]

http://en.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/story/194853.html

great articles that somewhat proves my point.

of particular note:

"But a key difference between Mercedes' run of success and that enjoyed by Red Bull is that the Milton Keynes racers were constantly pushing the envelope, using solutions on their car that had never even been considered by the FIA's technical enforcers until they were confronted by them in scrutineering. Red Bull were adept at operating in the grey area between the letter of the law and its intention, which is exactly what an all-conquering team is supposed to be doing.
Adrian Newey and co. interpreted the regulations in ways that were legal - or impossible to prove as being illegal - and because the FIA were unable to prevent the team from running components that were too clever for their own good, the Federation was forced to close up loopholes retrospectively, strengthening each rule so that wording and spirit were better aligned.
Mercedes, on the other hand, have followed the 2014 power unit regulations to the letter, and simply came up with a solution that far outstrips any of those developed by rival manufacturers Renault and Ferrari. Should scrutineering of the power unit discover any innovations considered to be within the letter but outside the spirit of the law, the FIA will act and tweak the regulations to ensure that all manufacturers comply with the rules as they were intended to be read."

[Doc Austin]

Getting and maintaining an advantage is certainly part of racing, but it gets old when you are spending hundreds of millions of dollars and it's the other guy that has that advantage, and worse when you can't overcome it. It stops being fun when you don't even have a chance, and right now, no one has a chance against Mercedes.

Right now the problem is that no one can afford to lose. If I am Renault, I can't justify wasting that much money to get my ass handed to me every week on the world stage. If you want to keep the manufacturers involved, you have to keep them competitive, or at least give them the chance to make themselves competitive.

I certainly don't have the answer because I am also not in favor of restricting Mercedes or giving the others an artificial boost. The rules were the same for everyone going in, so it's too late to change now if you want to have a fair series.

See, the thing is, the FIA should not have written such a ridiculous set of regulations that would have allow this to happen in the first place. We never heard much griping at all over the old regulations, at least not over the engine formula. Maybe that's because it was not such a complex formula that only one company in the world could figure it out and make it work.

We need less complex and less expensive cars.

[Tazio]

If chipped baloney got screwed I am all for it.

I'm pretty sure it was Mark that got screwed mate, but I never got all the details!

[CNR]

the way it was before the motorsport.com beat up
http://www.speedcafe.com/2015/03/15/...ine-disparity/
"Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner has called for the FIA to take action over engine disparity in Formula 1 amid fears Mercedes’ dominance will hurt the sport.

Horner’s team has slipped further down the competitive order this season as engine supplier Renault grapples with the current hybrid power unit technology.

Last year’s champions Mercedes have meanwhile increased their dominance, romping to a one-two finish in the season opening Australian Grand Prix with an engine Horner estimates has 100bhp more than the Renault.

Horner points to a succession of rule changes that took place during Red Bull’s four championship years from 2010 to 2013 as a precedent for legislating to slow down the pace-setting team.

“When we were winning, and we never were winning to the advantage that they have, I remember double diffusers were banned, exhausts were moved, flexible bodywork was prohibited, engine mapping mid-season was changed; anything was done (to bring Red Bull back to the field),” he said.
"

[truefan72]

“When we were winning, and we never were winning to the advantage that they have, I remember double diffusers were banned, exhausts were moved, flexible bodywork was prohibited, engine mapping mid-season was changed; anything was done (to bring Red Bull back to the field),” he said.
"

Well the reason was because those things were borderline legal and often did not comply with the regs as intended. Therefore those things were banned or were asked to be clamped down to fit the regulations. Horner is trying to have yo believe that those measures where taken to stifle their dominance, when in fact they were done because they were outside of the regs. Mercedes is well within the regs and just produced a superior package. If F1 had come to RBR and told them to change their design or aero package to slow them down then that would be a legitimate comparison as to what horner is trying to have done now.

Like i said this is laughable

and btw, all those things he mentioned were on many other cars that followed suit since they saw RBR getting away with it. So the FIA told them ALL to remove it and pointed to the regs stating where it wasn't supposed to be in the first place.