The Official Sebastian Vettel Fan Support Group Thread

[journeyman racer]

I get steveaki13's point. But there's a difference between driver's status and their abilities. It's a subtle difference. Vettel's light years ahead as far as status goes. Vettel might not be lucky, in the sense he didn't win 4 titles from the draw of a hat. But he was a bit fortunate to win in 10, when you can make the case Alonso, Hamilton and Webber were genuinely better than him. He was definitely fortunate to win in 12, when Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton were definitely better than him. 13 wasn't that crash hot til some RB political wrangling got involved. He may've got 4 titles, but his value is no more than a driver that's got one, two at best. There's no way anyone's telling me he's better than Mansell, Hakkinen, or some other 1-2 time champs.

[Doc Austin]

It is terrifying to think what Ricciardo could have done with the kind of car Vettel had the last four years. I do like Vettel a lot, and am dismayed by how badly Ricciardo is drumming him. There does not seem to be a good explanation for it.

[jens]

For most of the time Vettel was performing very well throughout 2008-2013 and that's a long time actually. That's more than being a one-trick pony, because regulations changed a few times during that period. As to why he is struggling in 2014 is another matter - perhaps there is a certain adaptability window for him, as in some things he can't go that well. Räikkönen was performing well up-to-and-including 2007, so that period also included many years, but suddenly hit a ceiling in 2008 and dropped backwards. So these things can happen.

[Big Ben]

jens, maybe I shouldn't say this out loud but in my post I was rather mocking a certain vettel fan than vettel himself. The fans annoy me much more than the drivers.

[airshifter]

Just so everyone waiting to bash me can, I rate the most complete drivers currently

1. Alonso - A fair bit clear of the rest in my opinion
2. Hamilton - He is fast in a good car out front, but also battles hard. Not near Alonso, but still second
3. Vettel - He is fast and has a good way of getting the team around him, like Schumi. He cannot outperform a car like Alonso, but I think he is 3rd best.

For those about to tell me Ricciardo is better cause of this season, I will stop you now. 4 titles won and in the bag and some are ready to say Ricciardo is better. Thats laughable really. He is better this season, or in this car, but he didn't win a race in a Toro Rosso and finish top 5 5 or 6 times and hasn't won 30 odd races and 4 titles.

out of interest

4. Raikkonen - easy to mock him, but last season he was winning races
5. Ricciardo - Moved up some places in my eyes this year.
6. Rosberg - After Nico it becomes less clear.

There was no intention on my part to bash anyone, even if we might differ in opinion, which is really at it is.

For the most part I agree with your top six, but right now where Vettel and Kimi fall is somewhat up in the air. I'll be the first to admit I didn't hate Rosberg as well as he has driven early on, but he has proven to be more well rounded than I expected the first year or two. Alonso without doubt is at the top. Kimi is regaining form but still being soundly beaten by Fred, but that is almost expected. Lewis is super fast, but sometimes lets people/things screw with his mental game. On a side on that, I still have hope Lewis will beat Nico this year and overcome his car failures. It may take a little luck as well as his driving skill, but it's still possible.

Right now the Ricciardo/Vettel placements are sort of up in the air. Maybe this car is just more suited to Daniel, but Webber was never really a good gauge IMO for where Vettel was placing. Or maybe it's possible that Daniel is just better, but it will take some time to determine that and see if the current trend continues.


But in any case, unless it's an obvious crazy fanboi with blinders on perspective, I have no intention of bashing anyone if we differ in opinion.

[Hawkmoon]

I think it's way too early to say if Ricciardo is better than Vettel, though he's having an amazing season.

This season has lowered my opinion of Vettel a little. I can't recall the last time a world champion was so poor compared to his teammate whilst defending his title. Vettel is in a select group as one of the very few men to have won four WDCs. After this season would anyone not named DJ rate Vettel as the equal of Schumacher, Prost or Fangio? I don't think so.

[jens]

From forum perspective in a way I like Vettel is so off the radar this year. Looking at the tight title battle, it has clearly heated people up and the Singapore GP thread got banned. In the past years Vettel was consistently the target in these discussions, but now it is good to re-build your career in silence while others are being targeted.

[airshifter]

People love to hate, and Vettel was certainly no exception to the rule. The only thing I really wonder is if he is just having issues with the car not being to his style, or if Ricciardo is just actually quicker regardless of the car.

With Singapore just having raced, it reminded me of a couple years back of some in car footage of Sebastian. The camera was aimed at his head/helmet, and you could see his eyes. During one part of the track I timed it and his concentration was so intense he didn't blink for some 45 seconds or so.

How a person could hate that I don't know. But I think often the forum battles are a matter of one extreme attacking the other, and many people assuming that anyone that has any opinion belongs to one of those extremes between being a fanboi or being a hater.

[jens]

People love to hate, and Vettel was certainly no exception to the rule. The only thing I really wonder is if he is just having issues with the car not being to his style, or if Ricciardo is just actually quicker regardless of the car.

If I listen to the views of insiders, i.e at Sky Sports, then almost everybody says that Vettel is an excellent driver, but doesn't like the car/hasn't adapted to it. The big question now is whether issues with these new reg. cars are a permanent or temporary issue. 2015 will be telling. But Ricciardo is an excellent driver, he possesses the kind of consistency Mark Webber never had. I don't think he would be a pushover. If in 2015 Vettel feels more comfortable in the car, we could see a classic team-mate battle, which would be even more fascinating if this car was able to compete for the title.

[zako85]

From forum perspective in a way I like Vettel is so off the radar this year. Looking at the tight title battle, it has clearly heated people up and the Singapore GP thread got banned. In the past years Vettel was consistently the target in these discussions, but now it is good to re-build your career in silence while others are being targeted.

I don't fully buy into the hypothesis that Vettel can't adapt to the new car. In 2008, Vettel sat in a brand new to him car and won the first GP ever for a Toro Rosso, I mean a Red Bull, team and then he went on to score more points than any Toro Rosso, I mean Red Bull, driver ever in history which helped Toro Rosso to beat even its mother team for the first and only time in team's history. Other examples exist. In 2012, Kimi Raikkonen came out of nowhere and joined Lotus after a two year break. Since the beginning of the 2012 season he drove as if he never quit F1 (up to the end of 2013 that is).

I kind of start wondering that Vettel is simply not as hungry as he used to be. The 2014 for him, is probably like the 2011 season for Hamilton. Facing the reality of racing in a clearly subpar car and with four titles under the belt, Vettel's morale took a hit. What's the best prize he can win this year? Third place in WDC at best. Perhaps being third means a lot to Ricciardo, but I can see Vettel feel a little disoriented when that's the best he can possibly hope for. An older driver would have just announced a retirement by now. (and we have seen it before)