Rallye Deutschland 2014

[jonkka]

I just look at the results.

[Mintexmemory]

The difference is a driver trying his damnedest - Put Meeke in Mikkelsen's car and you'd get a 3 way fight at the top. Put Mikkelsen in the Citroen and he'd be behind Ostberg, Neuville and Hirvonen.
Oh and @ Ucci - some things are readily apparent, you don't need to experience them personally! I'd imagine Kate Upton is a lot of fun, sadly I haven't had a road test!

[Lundefaret]

Pfff,

Loeb won 78 of the 156 WRC rallies he enteres. That's 50,0%. That's not really being "contempt" with good point scoring.

To compare the Valentino Rossi has a winning-% of 33,9% - Michael Schumacher has a winning-% of 29,5% and none of them has ever been accused of being "contempt".

PS: And stop talking down to people as if you know more about rally than people in here.

[QUOTE=MikeD;1009955]

My mission is not to talk down to other people, but to inspire to a debate, and that can be a thin line sometimes. So sorry mr "Pfff" if You feel insulted

In regards to You comparing Loebs number of victories to Schumacher and Rossi, what kind of context do You see this in?
Have You taken in to considiration the strength of their opponents, and the number off strong opponents?
For me its difficult to say if Loebs 50% is better or worse than Schumachers 29,5%.
How many of those years where Shumacher in the best car/team?
How many years where Rossi on the best bike/in the best team?
How strong where there competitors?

In my opinion You have to put Loebs victories in a context. Loebs seasons differ a lot in regards to what competition he had, and didnt have.
In 2004, with very strong competition from Solberg, he scores four second places in a row. I think that says a lot about the psychie of a top athlete.

Loeb was rallyings greatest master, no doubt about that, but he was this in a time where there were fewer and fewer factory teams, and all most no recruting of talent, because this was the age of the paid driver.
I rank Loeb among Schumacher, Rossi and the greatest of the great (winning in Germany all those years in a row, winning all the stages of a rally, and of cource winning all those WRCs), but it happend in some of the "worst" years of the WRC, and because of that - I think - it is difficult to compare those precenntage numbers.

And I am not saying Loeb was not a winner, but he was very good at getting those important second places, something i believe that is a bit more difficult for the other great Seb

[Lundefaret]

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.

Could it have something to do with the drivers maybe?

[kirungi okwogera]

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.

Yeah there's no way they are as evenly matched as they were pre-VW. Mikko Hirvonen (yes, the same one who is driving in this rally, in the lower-midfield) nearly beat Loeb to a championship twice in those days...

[Ucci]

Well, you will not convince me with stories "which WRC is the best". You obviousley forgotten situation few years ago, when Loeb was dominating scenary with Xsara&C4: all the time there were constant roumors about Focus lack of power...and then came Finland, where the power is Nb.1 fact; and Focus suddenly won. Why: car was top and the driver (with help of local knowledege) pushed 101%. As he should do all season, like Loeb....Yust crying, looking for excuses bring no result.

[Lundefaret]

Yeah there's no way they are as evenly matched as they were pre-VW. Mikko Hirvonen (yes, the same one who is driving in this rally, in the lower-midfield) nearly beat Loeb to a championship twice in those days...

For those of You that dont believe the cars are VERY evenly matched, I have some questions:

- In the last part of the 2013 season, Thierry Neuville was the only driver that could match Ogier on speed. He was driving a FORD.
Has the Ford suddenly got so much slower, or does it have anything to do with the drivers?

- In 2013 Sebastien Loeb was "forced" to do four rallies. With very little testing and preperation, he scored two victories and a second place. He was driving a CITROËN.
Both Kris Meeke and Mads Østberg have taken stage wins in this car this year. So can it really be so much slower than the VW?

- In 2014, Dani Sordo, during Rally Portugal, did his best gravel rally in ages, setting fastest stage times. He was driving a HYUNDAI.
We have seen several great performances in the Hyundai, last from Haydon Paddon in Finland. So can it really be that much slower than the VW, or is it Neuville that has lost some of his plot, wich I have written about earlier in this forum?

To judge the speed of the VW I think You can look at Andreas Mikkelsen. When on form he sets fastest stage times (like in Sweden), when not he is "one of the rest." As long as You are in a factory VW, Citroën, Ford or Hyundai, the only thing keeping You from winning is Your self, (and Ogier

[N.O.T]

Cars are not the same... VW is ages ahead.. end of story, if you want to live in star trek land go ahead.

[Lundefaret]

Well, you will not convince me with stories "which WRC is the best". You obviousley forgotten situation few years ago, when Loeb was dominating scenary with Xsara&C4: all the time there were constant roumors about Focus lack of power...and then came Finland, where the power is Nb.1 fact; and Focus suddenly won. Why: car was top and the driver (with help of local knowledege) pushed 101%. As he should do all season, like Loeb....Yust crying, looking for excuses bring no result.

The only "big" difference between the cars are the roll centre, and the diff strategy. Roll centre-vise ve are talking about tens of millimeters, with Ford in the one, Citroën in the other, and VW smack in the middle (unsure about the Hyundai.) On the diffs I believe VW is running 65 degrees ramp on throttle, with a smal difference between the drivers of (at leat on gravel.) The other teams do not have such steep ramps.

I dont know if You can remember, but Ogier was quite frustrated during testing of the Polo. Until Latvala came abooard, and agreed to Ogiers direction. I dont know, but I would think that this had something to do with the roll centre, or other factors that makes the VW not quite as extreme as the Citroën.

But as I said, Ogier would win in a Citroën (as he has showed), a Ford, a Hyundai (if it lasted a complete event), and of cource a VW. I do not believe that there ever has been a time where the WRC cars have been more similar in performance as now.

[Lundefaret]

Cars are not the same... VW is ages ahead.. end of story, if you want to live in star trek land go ahead.

Can You name the parts and the aereas the are "ages" ahead?